Would this be bad form?

jnrsgirl

We are having a small reception following the JOP ceremony with close family / friends at our favorite local five star restaurant. We have a special menu for our party, and of course we will be covering all dinner expenses. However our menu does not include alcohol. Guests will instead have soft drinks, tea, coffee bar, and several non-alcoholic spritzers to choose from. The servers for our room know that selections can only be made from the pre-selected menu, but the restaurant does have a full bar just outside the room.

I'm concerned that guests will stop by the bar for alcoholic beverages and then feel slighted if the drinks are not covered. Is it rude for us to not include liquor on our menu even though it is readily available at the restaurant?

We have a couple recovering alcoholics in our guest list. FI and I didn't want to upset / cause difficulties for them, and thus decided to forego alcohol and instead have a fantastic five course dinner followed by wedding cake.

I don't want my guests to be shelling out money at our reception... Is it rude to not include the bar costs at the reception?

huskypuppy14

What your doing is ok, since the bar is not in the same room, and you have a pre selected menu.

However, are you willing to maybe offer beer and wine?

holyguacamole79

jnrsgirl said:

We are having a small reception following the JOP ceremony with close family / friends at our favorite local five star restaurant. We have a special menu for our party, and of course we will be covering all dinner expenses. However our menu does not include alcohol. Guests will instead have soft drinks, tea, coffee bar, and several non-alcoholic spritzers to choose from. The servers for our room know that selections can only be made from the pre-selected menu, but the restaurant does have a full bar just outside the room. I'm concerned that guests will stop by the bar for alcoholic beverages and then feel slighted if the drinks are not covered. Is it rude for us to not include liquor on our menu even though it is readily available at the restaurant? We have a couple recovering alcoholics in our guest list. FI and I didn't want to upset / cause difficulties for them, and thus decided to forego alcohol and instead have a fantastic five course dinner followed by wedding cake. I don't want my guests to be shelling out money at our reception... Is it rude to not include the bar costs at the reception?

Technically you're fine. When I go to a hosted event at a restaurant, I order beverages from the servers in that room. Personally, if I was invited to a reception at a five star restaurant and alcohol wasn't included, I would be side-eyeing things (unless I knew the couple / family had religious reasons). But you know your guests better than we do. One of my friends is a recovering alcoholic and seemed to have a fine time at our wedding.

lc07

You are not required to host alcohol. I would create a menu that says what is hosted. (Well, I would host alcohol but in my circle we always host alcohol - baby showers, brunches, weddings, all events). Also, have the servers know to let people know if they order a drink that they understand that it is not part of the hosted menu.

kkitkat79

sarahbear31 said:

jnrsgirl said:

We are having a small reception following the JOP ceremony with close family / friends at our favorite local five star restaurant. We have a special menu for our party, and of course we will be covering all dinner expenses. However our menu does not include alcohol. Guests will instead have soft drinks, tea, coffee bar, and several non-alcoholic spritzers to choose from. The servers for our room know that selections can only be made from the pre-selected menu, but the restaurant does have a full bar just outside the room. I'm concerned that guests will stop by the bar for alcoholic beverages and then feel slighted if the drinks are not covered. Is it rude for us to not include liquor on our menu even though it is readily available at the restaurant? We have a couple recovering alcoholics in our guest list. FI and I didn't want to upset / cause difficulties for them, and thus decided to forego alcohol and instead have a fantastic five course dinner followed by wedding cake. I don't want my guests to be shelling out money at our reception... Is it rude to not include the bar costs at the reception?

Technically you're fine. When I go to a hosted event at a restaurant, I order beverages from the servers in that room. Personally, if I was invited to a reception at a five star restaurant and alcohol wasn't included, I would be side-eyeing things (unless I knew the couple / family had religious reasons). But you know your guests better than we do. One of my friends is a recovering alcoholic and seemed to have a fine time at our wedding.

Why would you side-eye reception at a five-star restaurant without alcohol? What is wrong with that and what does religion have to do with it?

STARMOON44

I would side eye a 5 star meal with no alcohol because I view wine as part and parcel of a 5 star meal. And if there's a bar on the way in I probably would pick up a drink. Is this really something the alcoholics in attendance need you to do? You're still hosting in a place that serves alcohol and it's still quite possible alcohol will wind up at the table. If I knew you and your FI had religious objections to alcohol if be expecting not to have any at your wedding.

Frankly the idea of soda with a 5 star meal is just all kinds of wrong to me.

kkitkat79

STARMOON44 said:

I would side eye a 5 star meal with no alcohol because I view wine as part and parcel of a 5 star meal. And if there's a bar on the way in I probably would pick up a drink. Is this really something the alcoholics in attendance need you to do? You're still hosting in a place that serves alcohol and it's still quite possible alcohol will wind up at the table. If I knew you and your FI had religious objections to alcohol if be expecting not to have any at your wedding. Frankly the idea of soda with a 5 star meal is just all kinds of wrong to me.

That is your personal preference though, does it really have anything to do with the etiquette of hosting your guests properly? It's not like she is putting black tie on the invites.

RebeccaFlower

I think you should just have table side wine & beer. Maybe ask if you can hire an extra server to take care of it for you. I would also wonder why there wasn't anything offered with such an extravagant meal. 

STARMOON44

I didn't say it was bad etiquette, but the OP also expressed concern guests would feel slighted and might buy their own drinks. To my mind , yup, those are both definitely possible. Doesn't make the OPs plan rude, doesn't mean she has to do what her guests expect/want, but I think it's worth considering.

ETA: @kkitkat79‌ I answered the question of why someone would side eye a 5 star meal with no alcohol because you asked it? I'm confused why you then questioned the point of my answer. I'd side eye a black wedding dress and be happy to tell you why but it's certainly good etiquette to wear one.

kkitkat79

STARMOON44 said:

 ETA: @kkitkat79‌ I answered the question of why someone would side eye a 5 star meal with no alcohol because you asked it? I'm confused why you then questioned the point of my answer. I'd side eye a black wedding dress and be happy to tell you why but it's certainly good etiquette to wear one.

I asked it in the context of etiquette, I can see how it might be unclear. I definitely agree that we are all entitled to our own preferences. However, if one feels slighted at a hosted five star dinner because there is no alcohol that's on them. The OP should not be concerned with it as long as it is clear for everyone what is hosted.   

Liatris2010

Etiquette wise, in the clear, but I agree with PPs that a fancy dinner usually includes wine or cocktails. I don't know about the recovering alcoholics you are accommodating, but unless they specifically avoid being near alcohol I wouldn't worry about them. Part of being in recovery is learning to resist temptation.

JCbride2015

Yes, I too would be surprised at a five-star meal with no wine.  I would understand it isn't rude of the hosts, but to me a fancy meal includes wine and I would be a little disappointed.  But no, it isn't actually rude.

I'm not sure I understand the rationale with the recovering alcoholics, though.  The bar is still visible right next to the private room.  They will still be near alcohol, whether the host pays for it or not.

iloveotters2014

Technically yes you are good. You may run into the issue of people going to the restaurant bar to order a drink if they really want some alcohol with their meal, but there isn't really anything you can do about that. Unless you are against alcohol could you purchase a bottle of red and white wine for each table?

We actually had an issue similar to this at our rehearsal dinner. We had a private room in restaurant and hosted beer and wine for our guests (listed on the menu). I found out that a few people went to the restaurant bar before they even went into our private room and purchased mixed drinks. I was a little miffed but I couldn't really stop it

badbnagdway

It is totally within etiquette to host your guests without booze. 

OP, in terms of the situation, if I'm understanding you right, this is a small gathering (it might help to know how small) where there are some (recently?) recovering alcoholics. The no alcohol is geared at making them more comfortable and keeping temptation away, not saving money. I think this is totally fine and very considerate.

The thing I would be concerned about is people not understanding that is the purpose of the no booze evening and going out to the other room and coming back with a drink and kind of defeating the purpose of the no booze evening anyway. I do think this creates a slightly awkward situation but in my circles I think this would probably happen (I guess I know a lot of lushes ). I don't know how to prevent this without telling people, oh, we have alcoholics here, and that is really and truly awkward and kind of rude to those recovering. 

So I guess my question, now that I've rambled, is, will people understand, without having to be told, why there is no booze on the menu, or will people be ignorant on this point and therefore be tempted by the bar?

badbnagdway

Also to the person who recommended table beer and wine, how in the world would that help in this situation? 

iloveotters2014

Knottie83906351 said:

Also to the person who recommended table beer and wine, how in the world would that help in this situation? 

because exactly to your point.....if people are buying drinks anyway it isn't going to make it less awkward for the alcoholics. Having a small limited amount of alcohol instead of people going to the bar and ordering hard liquor might be a bit less awkward.

photokitty

I would not side eye your plans at all. I would be appreciative of your meal and including me in your small, intimate wedding celebration. 

I assume since it a JOP ceremony that it will be earlier in the day. I am not inclined to drink wine at lunch or an early dinner regardless of the quality of the food. I think what you have planned is perfectly fine.  You are within good etiquette standards, regardless of what your reasoning is for not offering alcohol.

 I wouldn't dream of going to the bar to buy my own beverage as I think that would be rude and ungracious of me as a guest.

badbnagdway

iloveotters2014 said:

Knottie83906351 said:

Also to the person who recommended table beer and wine, how in the world would that help in this situation? 

because exactly to your point.....if people are buying drinks anyway it isn't going to make it less awkward for the alcoholics. Having a small limited amount of alcohol instead of people going to the bar and ordering hard liquor might be a bit less awkward.

But then wouldn't it be on the table, directly in front of the guests? This is how I've seen table beer and wine done at other functions. 

iloveotters2014

Knottie83906351 said:

iloveotters2014 said:

Knottie83906351 said:

Also to the person who recommended table beer and wine, how in the world would that help in this situation? 

because exactly to your point.....if people are buying drinks anyway it isn't going to make it less awkward for the alcoholics. Having a small limited amount of alcohol instead of people going to the bar and ordering hard liquor might be a bit less awkward.

But then wouldn't it be on the table, directly in front of the guests? This is how I've seen table beer and wine done at other functions. 

I don't know how their table's are set up. If it's a small event it might be one long table in which case having 1 or 2 bottles of wine in the center wouldn't be that offensive.

Again, the OP isn't out of line in not serving alcohol. My thoughts were having a small limited amount of wine may be less offensive to an alcoholic than straight liquor or a mixed drink purchased from the bar outside the room. Then again, people may do that anyway. It just depends on your crowd.

simcal18

kkitkat79 said:

sarahbear31 said:

jnrsgirl said:

We are having a small reception following the JOP ceremony with close family / friends at our favorite local five star restaurant. We have a special menu for our party, and of course we will be covering all dinner expenses. However our menu does not include alcohol. Guests will instead have soft drinks, tea, coffee bar, and several non-alcoholic spritzers to choose from. The servers for our room know that selections can only be made from the pre-selected menu, but the restaurant does have a full bar just outside the room. I'm concerned that guests will stop by the bar for alcoholic beverages and then feel slighted if the drinks are not covered. Is it rude for us to not include liquor on our menu even though it is readily available at the restaurant? We have a couple recovering alcoholics in our guest list. FI and I didn't want to upset / cause difficulties for them, and thus decided to forego alcohol and instead have a fantastic five course dinner followed by wedding cake. I don't want my guests to be shelling out money at our reception... Is it rude to not include the bar costs at the reception?

Technically you're fine. When I go to a hosted event at a restaurant, I order beverages from the servers in that room. Personally, if I was invited to a reception at a five star restaurant and alcohol wasn't included, I would be side-eyeing things (unless I knew the couple / family had religious reasons). But you know your guests better than we do. One of my friends is a recovering alcoholic and seemed to have a fine time at our wedding.

Why would you side-eye reception at a five-star restaurant without alcohol? What is wrong with that and what does religion have to do with it?

To me, serving a fancy five-star meal with no wine is a little like serving tortilla chips with no salsa.  Sure, you can technically do it, and it's perfectly appropriate etiquette-wise.  It's just feels a little odd, bland, and incomplete.

cowgirl8238

photokitty said:

I would not side eye your plans at all. I would be appreciative of your meal and including me in your small, intimate wedding celebration. 

I assume since it a JOP ceremony that it will be earlier in the day. I am not inclined to drink wine at lunch or an early dinner regardless of the quality of the food. I think what you have planned is perfectly fine.  You are within good etiquette standards, regardless of what your reasoning is for not offering alcohol.

 I wouldn't dream of going to the bar to buy my own beverage as I think that would be rude and ungracious of me as a guest.

This is how I felt too!!

I guess if you wanted to upgrade this I would go with a table side wine/beer ordering versus a full on open bar, but I would be just fine with a dry reception!!!

mrsmagicgeek

I would be fine with a dry reception. I might think it odd, but I'd mainly be happy to be there celebrating.

jnrsgirl

Its a small group only 15 or so guests. We will all have one big table in their private dining room. Its earlier in the day. We are scheduled to meet with the JOP and parents around 1:45ish. Then meet with our guests at the restaurant at 2:30 or 3pm depending on traffic.

Its not a cost issue. We just wanted to be respectful of the family members who were in AA. Plus one of them only just started AA and has trouble staying sober. I just didn't want to be rude to the other guests by making it seem like a cash bar situation which it definitely isn't meant to be.

ETA: grammar

NYCMercedes

jnrsgirl said:

Its a small group only 15 or so guests. We will all have one big table in their private dining room. Its earlier in the day. We are scheduled to meet with the JOP and parents around 1:45ish. Then meet with our guests at the restaurant at 2:30 or 3pm depending on traffic. Its not a cost issue. We just wanted to be respectful of the family members who were in AA. Plus one of them only just started AA and has trouble staying sober. I just didn't want to be rude to the other guests by making it seem like a cash bar situation which it definitely isn't meant to be. ETA: grammar

I think you're fine! Have fun!

Kerigirl9

If you think there is a good chance that people will get up to buy themselves a drink at the bar then it's probably easier and less awkward to just have alcohol offered at the table. What will likely happen is that one enterprising person will get him/herself a drink and then the other people at the table will realize they can get a drink if they go to the bar too. So you're going to have a lot of people coming and going. 

 As a recovered alcoholic I would be uncomfortable to know that people had to get up and get their own drinks because of me (although I think it's a wonderfully thoughtful gesture on your part). It ends up putting even more emphasis on the alcohol which is precisely what you're trying to avoid. Hope this perspective helps.

indianaalum

bostonbride2015 said:

kkitkat79 said:

sarahbear31 said:

jnrsgirl said:

We are having a small reception following the JOP ceremony with close family / friends at our favorite local five star restaurant. We have a special menu for our party, and of course we will be covering all dinner expenses. However our menu does not include alcohol. Guests will instead have soft drinks, tea, coffee bar, and several non-alcoholic spritzers to choose from. The servers for our room know that selections can only be made from the pre-selected menu, but the restaurant does have a full bar just outside the room. I'm concerned that guests will stop by the bar for alcoholic beverages and then feel slighted if the drinks are not covered. Is it rude for us to not include liquor on our menu even though it is readily available at the restaurant? We have a couple recovering alcoholics in our guest list. FI and I didn't want to upset / cause difficulties for them, and thus decided to forego alcohol and instead have a fantastic five course dinner followed by wedding cake. I don't want my guests to be shelling out money at our reception... Is it rude to not include the bar costs at the reception?

Technically you're fine. When I go to a hosted event at a restaurant, I order beverages from the servers in that room. Personally, if I was invited to a reception at a five star restaurant and alcohol wasn't included, I would be side-eyeing things (unless I knew the couple / family had religious reasons). But you know your guests better than we do. One of my friends is a recovering alcoholic and seemed to have a fine time at our wedding.

Why would you side-eye reception at a five-star restaurant without alcohol? What is wrong with that and what does religion have to do with it?

To me, serving a fancy five-star meal with no wine is a little like serving tortilla chips with no salsa.  Sure, you can technically do it, and it's perfectly appropriate etiquette-wise.  It's just feels a little odd, bland, and incomplete.

okay, I see a total double standard on this one. People preach constantly that dry weddings are fine and how people shouldn't expect liquor,so how is this different? I assume most weddings are also serving multicourse meals that would somehow be equivalent to that of a 5 star restaurant (regarding courses as wedding good can vary). 

How is this different?!?

STARMOON44

I've never been to a wedding that offered anything close to a 5 star restaurant. To me, a five star restaurant is something like Per Se or Del Posto. As everyone has said, etiquette wise alcohol is never required. But I view wine as part and parcel of a five star meal, I would be expecting it, and I would find it odd not to find it. I probably would order a drink at the bar as soon as I came in if I didn't know it was dry because I would assume the restaurant services were available to me. And I also wouldn't expect a 5 star meal at 3 pm because that's not meal time to me.

badbnagdway

I think for a meal at 2:30 or 3 pm most of the guests really wouldn't be inclined to drink anyway. 

photokitty

martha1818 said:

STARMOON44 said:

I've never been to a wedding that offered anything close to a 5 star restaurant. To me, a five star restaurant is something like Per Se or Del Posto. As everyone has said, etiquette wise alcohol is never required. But I view wine as part and parcel of a five star meal, I would be expecting it, and I would find it odd not to find it. I probably would order a drink at the bar as soon as I came in if I didn't know it was dry because I would assume the restaurant services were available to me. And I also wouldn't expect a 5 star meal at 3 pm because that's not meal time to me.

I agree. I'm wondering if this is actually a five star restaurant or how "fancy" this restaurant is? I would be pretty miffed to find out I'd have to go to the bar and pay for my own wine for a setting like this. If the OP is doing this out of respect for the recovering alcoholics in the group, then it makes more sense to not allow people to go to the bar outside at all and buy alcohol; right now having a couple of bottles of wine available at the table vs having guests go out to the restaurant bar to buy their own wine comes to the same result for the recovering alcoholics- they're still going to be around alcohol. So IMO may as well "ban" it, or not make guests pay for it by just offering it. ETA grammar.

So if you had to attend a hosted work lunch at a 5 star restaurant and it didn't include alcohol, would you actually get up from the private room and go to the bar area and purchase a drink?? No, you wouldn't because it would be rude.

The OP is having a meal, not a DJ and dancing. She cannot help that the restaurant she is hosting her guests at has a bar in the main area. 

You don't have to go out and pay for your own wine, in fact your shouldn't. You should be a gracious guest and have the meal as served. She is not "allowing" them to go out to the bar and buy it, she is hoping they won't...if her guests are well mannered then she has no reason to worry.

I would never order a drink as soon as I got there, I would go to the private room, take my seat and wait for the meal to be served.

mimivac

STARMOON44 said:

I would side eye a 5 star meal with no alcohol because I view wine as part and parcel of a 5 star meal. And if there's a bar on the way in I probably would pick up a drink. Is this really something the alcoholics in attendance need you to do? You're still hosting in a place that serves alcohol and it's still quite possible alcohol will wind up at the table. If I knew you and your FI had religious objections to alcohol if be expecting not to have any at your wedding. Frankly the idea of soda with a 5 star meal is just all kinds of wrong to me.

 

SIB:

 

I totally agree. It seems just odd not to have at least wine or beer offered with a meal of this kind. I definitely wouldn't be mad at you or question your etiquette, but it would feel like something was missing.

mimivac

photokitty said:

So if you had to attend a hosted work lunch at a 5 star restaurant and it didn't include alcohol, would you actually get up from the private room and go to the bar area and purchase a drink?? No, you wouldn't because it would be rude.

The OP is having a meal, not a DJ and dancing. She cannot help that the restaurant she is hosting her guests at has a bar in the main area. 

You don't have to go out and pay for your own wine, in fact your shouldn't. You should be a gracious guest and have the meal as served. She is not "allowing" them to go out to the bar and buy it, she is hoping they won't...if her guests are well mannered then she has no reason to worry.

I would never order a drink as soon as I got there, I would go to the private room, take my seat and wait for the meal to be served.

A work lunch is not even in the same realm as a wedding reception or meal. I would view this as a cash bar and get my glass of wine.