'Family List' vs 'Friend List'

primafaba15

TL;DR: I know that the A List - B List idea has been raised a million times and that it is not a good idea and will generally end in upset.  However, my fiance and I are considering doing something in a similar vein with a 'family list' and 'friend list' -- that is, sending out all invitations to both sides of the family a few months earlier and with an earlier RSVP date than friend invites. I'm wondering if this would be similarly objectionable? 

Basically, we're running into a problem where fiance and I both have large families and we have a venue that's pretty strictly limited to 96 people. We originally chose this venue because of budget considerations and because we had reason to assume my extended family would not come (I live in MA, they live in IL, we have not been very close in recent years; also, we will be having a Catholic wedding and a reception with dancing/open bar, and my Dad's family is Baptist, heavily opposes the Catholic Church, and are teetotallers several of whom boycotted my parents' wedding because Mom was Catholic / presence of booze). Had these folks not come, any larger venue in our budget would have slapped us with fees for being under the minimum number of people. However, now extended family is making noises like they might come, and since my fiance has 39 local, definitely-attending relatives, it's looking like we'll have to leave out several friends (well, my friends specifically, as most of fiance's friends are mutual). 

My parents to their credit claim to be on 'my side' but mostly this means heckling me about how could I not invite X friends (which it kills me to do) and I should force fiance to uninvite family, also to show them I'm not a pushover. Fiance has already cut all the relatives that he isn't close to and, uhm, they're local and my family isn't so making everyone mad is not a good plan right now. This has ended in a LOT of tears and stress, my parents badmouthing fiance (who they previously liked just fine) and FGMIL (grandmother-in-law) telling fiance we need to go to a priest for pre-marital counseling because clearly I can't handle my family. I am at my wits end and the only solution we could come up with it this family list- friend list idea, but I have no idea if that is cutting too close to something that I do know is a faux pas. Any help, fellow Knotties? (or other ideas?) 

I should add that my folks are buying my dress and paying for probably 40% of the rest of our budget (most of this will go to food and the open bar they are insisting on, as they say we can't do cash or a dry wedding). I wish that I could refuse the money, but we can't appropriately host the folks coming from out of town without it (already been told doing a hall or something is unacceptable unless I want to uninvite friends and just do a nice family dinner), so that has unfortunately given them some say. 

Maggie0829

primafaba15 said:

TL;DR: I know that the A List - B List idea has been raised a million times and that it is not a good idea and will generally end in upset.  However, my fiance and I are considering doing something in a similar vein with a 'family list' and 'friend list' -- that is, sending out all invitations to both sides of the family a few months earlier and with an earlier RSVP date than friend invites. I'm wondering if this would be similarly objectionable? 

Basically, we're running into a problem where fiance and I both have large families and we have a venue that's pretty strictly limited to 96 people. We originally chose this venue because of budget considerations and because we had reason to assume my extended family would not come (I live in MA, they live in IL, we have not been very close in recent years; also, we will be having a Catholic wedding and a reception with dancing/open bar, and my Dad's family is Baptist, heavily opposes the Catholic Church, and are teetotallers several of whom boycotted my parents' wedding because Mom was Catholic / presence of booze). However, now extended family is making noises like they might come, and since my fiance has 39 local, definitely-attending relatives, it's looking like we'll have to leave out several friends (well, my friends specifically, as most of fiance's friends are mutual). 

My parents to their credit claim to be on 'my side' but mostly this means heckling me about how could I not invite X friends (which it kills me to do) and I should force fiance to uninvite family, also to show them I'm not a pushover. Fiance has already cut all the relatives that he isn't close to and, uhm, they're local and my family isn't so making everyone mad is not a good plan right now. This has ended in a LOT of tears and stress, my parents badmouthing fiance (who they previously liked just fine) and FGMIL (grandmother-in-law) telling fiance we need to go to a priest for pre-marital counseling because clearly I can't handle my family. I am at my wits end and the only solution we could come up with it this family list- friend list idea, but I have no idea if that is cutting too close to something that I do know is a faux pas. Any help, fellow Knotties? (or other ideas?) 

I should add that my folks are buying my dress and paying for probably 40% of the rest of our budget (most of this will go to food and the open bar they are insisting on, as they say we can't do cash or a dry wedding). I wish that I could refuse the money, but we can't appropriately host the folks coming from out of town without it (already been told doing a hall or something is unacceptable unless I want to uninvite friends and just do a nice family dinner), so that has unfortunately given them some say. 

Yes. That is still B-listing and would be seen as very rude.

Unfortunately when it comes to weddings you have to make hard choices and determining the guest list is one of them.  There is rarely a couple that gets to invite everyone that they want. Cuts have to be made.  Your FI has already cut his list and it would not be right to force him to cut it again.  If your parents really want you to be able to invite certain friends then it is up to them to cut their list.  If they aren't willing to do that then you unfortunately won't be able to invite everyone you would like.  Sucks, but that is life.

kmmssg

It sounds to me like you chose your venue BEFORE you finalized your guest list and now you are paying the price. Also, what will you do If Great Aunt Georgine and her husband, Great Uncle Harold decline.....and then 4 weeks later tell you their plans have changed and they are coming? Are you going to tell them too bad, so sad? I REALLY recommend that you guys find a bigger venue, even if you have to push your date back. Two huge families and a small venue don't work very well. You should not have to ditch your friends and he shouldn't have to ditch local family he sees regularly if he wants them there. You need a bigger venue.

primafaba15

Thanks for your input. That is what I was beginning to think, but I thought it was worth checking. 

My parents do not have a list -- the only other places to cut are my side of the family or our mutual friend list. We are looking at max 20 blood relatives on my side versus 39 on his, so my parents' argument is that it is not fair that he has twice as many family and it should be even. But of course, that is not how large families who practically live in each others laps work. 

Maggie0829

primafaba15 said:

Thanks for your input. That is what I was beginning to think, but I thought it was worth checking. 

My parents do not have a list -- the only other places to cut are my side of the family or our mutual friend list. We are looking at max 20 blood relatives on my side versus 39 on his, so my parents' argument is that it is not fair that he has twice as many family and it should be even. But of course, that is not how large families who practically live in each others laps work. 

Yeah, your FI and his family shouldn't be penalized because they have a larger family. That is just silly.

So you have a venue that can hold 96 people.  And right now you have 59 guests who are family.  So that leaves you with 37 friends who you can invite. That is a pretty decent number, you and your FI will just have to make hard choices on who to invite out of your friends.

southernbelle0915

I think the guest list is one of the most stressful parts of planning for most B&Gs.

I agree 100% with @kmmssg - it sounds like you chose the venue before you made a guest list. This is always a bad idea for exactly the reason at hand. Can you get out of your venue contract? Sometimes, venues will refund your deposit if they're able to re-book your date. 

If you can't find a bigger venue, then you have to make difficult cuts and that's the way it is. We all had to do this. B-listing is rude - yes, even if people are different circles (family and friends in this case). Don't do this. I had a great aunt RSVP 'no' and then when I went around to visit with guests, she was there. Yup....

If groom's family isn't contributing, they get zero say in the guest list. You shouldn't even be discussing it with them - so I'm not sure why your FI's grandmother knows anything at all. I would give them XX # of slots and they can fill them however they want, but that's all they get. We had to do this with DH's side. They didn't contribute anything to our wedding and wanted to invite 50+ people. Nope. 

primafaba15

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I get the feeling that some folks found this a little irritating (but I'm also overtired and over-read into things) -- if that's the case, then I do apologize. I asked because fiance suggested it and I genuinely wasn't sure if it would be offensive. I definitely have my answer. Unfortunately, we had to book the chapel we wanted almost as soon as we got engaged in order to avoid a 2 year waiting list, and they would not book us without a reception venue also booked, so we had to book very quickly, maybe more quickly than we should have. It is still a sacrifice I am okay with having made because that location has deep significance to both of us. We did have a rough guest list before booking -- many venues had a 120 person minimum for a Saturday, which we knew we could neither afford nor reach -- but some family circumstances have changed, family on both sides have turned up additional must-invite relatives, and we are having to add several plus-ones that were not on our original list. About half of those 37 spaces will be plus-ones, and 96 is really, really crunching both the space and our budget, especially with the open bar -- it seemed like a big number to me, too, but as I start listing out the names and the spaces we'll need to leave for unexpected family plus-ones (we have several cousins who are not yet engaged but could get engaged before invites go out), it just goes very fast. Truly, while I was prepared originally not to invite some of the less-intimate (but still important) friends if necessary, I wasn't prepared for the constant barrage of harassment from my folks about it. This whole process has brought out just how toxic my relationship with my mother is, which I guess is the origin of us trying to find a way around this. But I appreciate everyone's honest feedback, and we'll do what we have to do. We really can't afford a larger venue.

artbyallie

primafaba15 said:

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I get the feeling that some folks found this a little irritating (but I'm also overtired and over-read into things) -- if that's the case, then I do apologize. I asked because fiance suggested it and I genuinely wasn't sure if it would be offensive. I definitely have my answer. Unfortunately, we had to book the chapel we wanted almost as soon as we got engaged in order to avoid a 2 year waiting list, and they would not book us without a reception venue also booked, so we had to book very quickly, maybe more quickly than we should have. It is still a sacrifice I am okay with having made because that location has deep significance to both of us. We did have a rough guest list before booking -- many venues had a 120 person minimum for a Saturday, which we knew we could neither afford nor reach -- but some family circumstances have changed, family on both sides have turned up additional must-invite relatives, and we are having to add several plus-ones that were not on our original list. About half of those 37 spaces will be plus-ones, and 96 is really, really crunching both the space and our budget, especially with the open bar -- it seemed like a big number to me, too, but as I start listing out the names and the spaces we'll need to leave for unexpected family plus-ones (we have several cousins who are not yet engaged but could get engaged before invites go out), it just goes very fast. Truly, while I was prepared originally not to invite some of the less-intimate (but still important) friends if necessary, I wasn't prepared for the constant barrage of harassment from my folks about it. This whole process has brought out just how toxic my relationship with my mother is, which I guess is the origin of us trying to find a way around this. But I appreciate everyone's honest feedback, and we'll do what we have to do. We really can't afford a larger venue.

These people should be invited WITH their significant others regardless of whether they are engaged. Anyone in a relationship has their partner invited by name and not as a plus-one.

Maggie0829

primafaba15 said:

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I get the feeling that some folks found this a little irritating (but I'm also overtired and over-read into things) -- if that's the case, then I do apologize. I asked because fiance suggested it and I genuinely wasn't sure if it would be offensive. I definitely have my answer. Unfortunately, we had to book the chapel we wanted almost as soon as we got engaged in order to avoid a 2 year waiting list, and they would not book us without a reception venue also booked, so we had to book very quickly, maybe more quickly than we should have. It is still a sacrifice I am okay with having made because that location has deep significance to both of us. We did have a rough guest list before booking -- many venues had a 120 person minimum for a Saturday, which we knew we could neither afford nor reach -- but some family circumstances have changed, family on both sides have turned up additional must-invite relatives, and we are having to add several plus-ones that were not on our original list. About half of those 37 spaces will be plus-ones, and 96 is really, really crunching both the space and our budget, especially with the open bar -- it seemed like a big number to me, too, but as I start listing out the names and the spaces we'll need to leave for unexpected family plus-ones (we have several cousins who are not yet engaged but could get engaged before invites go out), it just goes very fast. Truly, while I was prepared originally not to invite some of the less-intimate (but still important) friends if necessary, I wasn't prepared for the constant barrage of harassment from my folks about it. This whole process has brought out just how toxic my relationship with my mother is, which I guess is the origin of us trying to find a way around this. But I appreciate everyone's honest feedback, and we'll do what we have to do. We really can't afford a larger venue.

Seriously, your chapel has a requirement that you had to have a reception space booked prior to booking with them?  That is kind of fucked up on their part.

You know you don't have to have an open bar right?  You could do a limited bar with just beer and wine.

kmmssg

primafaba15 said:

Thanks for your input. That is what I was beginning to think, but I thought it was worth checking. 

My parents do not have a list -- the only other places to cut are my side of the family or our mutual friend list. We are looking at max 20 blood relatives on my side versus 39 on his, so my parents' argument is that it is not fair that he has twice as many family and it should be even. But of course, that is not how large families who practically live in each others laps work. 

I would like you to share my story with your parents if you like.  My DH has 6 brothers and sisters, each is married and 5 of them have kids.  For him to invite his father, siblings, and their families it would be 25 people.  For me to invite my surviving brother (I had 3, now 1 and my parents are gone) plus my 2 nephews it would be 6 people.  It is the same circles in each family and we are equally close to all of those people.  25 for him vs 6 for me.  Back when we got married there is no way I would ask him to cut family so our numbers could be even.  It isn't fault his mother was a devoted Catholic lady of the 50's who had 7 kids and my family is smaller and for the most part passed away.

If you can try to find a time to talk to them about this when you all aren't fussing over the numbers and guest list, I hope it will help.  Your parents really can't penalize your FI for having a large family.

As far as your chapel - their policy of requiring a reception venue must surely hurt other couples besides yourselves.  Sounds like people have to jump on a venue just to secure the chapel!  Not a friendly policy in my eyes!

I wish you good luck in the rest of your planning, but I think you guys are going to have some more crunching to do.  Also - the previous suggestion of a limited bar with wine and beer might help solve some budget problems!

primafaba15

I get the feeling that the chapel has worked with one too many couples who were eager to book the chapel ASAP and put the venue off, only to find themselves without a venue that is workable with the date and time reserved for the chapel.  That was the logic presented to us, anyway. It sucks, but what are you going to do. 

We do have an open, limited bar with beer, wine and soda, which is unfortunately still going to cost us about $20 per person. 

I have heard etiquette both ways on inviting significant others. We consulted with our families and they felt that traditional etiquette is that inviting non-engaged couples is nice, but not required.  We are inviting any significant others who are engaged or living together, since many couples we know are moving in together in lieu of getting engaged, and I misspoke using 'plus-one' -- they will absolutely be invited by name.  This will cover almost everyone we know in a committed relationship, and we felt is an easier rule to go by then 'well, you've been dating for 9 months so is that committed or not....' If I could, I would give plus-ones to every single person attending, but we can't afford it. We are not being extravagant in any other areas of the wedding -- we're doing only cheap silk flowers, not doing complete photography coverage, no videography, no albums -- so this is not a case of us choosing to spoil ourselves over our guests: it is just what we can afford. I've spent enough time on these forums to know that some people feel this is a reason not to attend my wedding, and if people make that decision, I will be very sorry, and I will understand where they are coming from, and respect that decision and never hold it against them.  But I would rather give them the option to be there than not at all. I would not want a friend to feel like she couldn't invite me to her wedding at all because she couldn't afford to let me bring my fiance. 

Again, I appreciate everyone's advice. The next time this comes up with my parents, I will tell the that I am no longer interested in inviting X friends, and leave it at that. 

Maggie0829

primafaba15 said:

I get the feeling that the chapel has worked with one too many couples who were eager to book the chapel ASAP and put the venue off, only to find themselves without a venue that is workable with the date and time reserved for the chapel.  That was the logic presented to us, anyway. It sucks, but what are you going to do. 

We do have an open, limited bar with beer, wine and soda, which is unfortunately still going to cost us about $20 per person. 

I have heard etiquette both ways on inviting significant others. We consulted with our families and they felt that traditional etiquette is that inviting non-engaged couples is nice, but not required.  We are inviting any significant others who are engaged or living together, since many couples we know are moving in together in lieu of getting engaged, and I misspoke using 'plus-one' -- they will absolutely be invited by name.  This will cover almost everyone we know in a committed relationship, and we felt is an easier rule to go by then 'well, you've been dating for 9 months so is that committed or not....' If I could, I would give plus-ones to every single person attending, but we can't afford it. We are not being extravagant in any other areas of the wedding -- we're doing only cheap silk flowers, not doing complete photography coverage, no videography, no albums -- so this is not a case of us choosing to spoil ourselves over our guests: it is just what we can afford. I've spent enough time on these forums to know that some people feel this is a reason not to attend my wedding, and if people make that decision, I will be very sorry, and I will understand where they are coming from, and respect that decision and never hold it against them.  But I would rather give them the option to be there than not at all. I would not want a friend to feel like she couldn't invite me to her wedding at all because she couldn't afford to let me bring my fiance. 

Again, I appreciate everyone's advice. The next time this comes up with my parents, I will tell the that I am no longer interested in inviting X friends, and leave it at that. 

Sorry but anyone who is in a relationship needs to be invited with their SO.  At one point you and your FI weren't engaged but you thought of yourselves in a committed relationship.  Only those in the relationship have the right to determine if it is committed or not.  By not inviting a SO of someone just because they don't have a sparkly ring on their finger is telling them that you don't think their relationship is serious enough to deem an invite which is very rude and basically you judging their relationship.

Now if someone is truly single then they don't have to be given a plus one.

sarahjane222

I have to admit that when I first read your post about inviting all of the family early and then inviting friends later once you got a handle on which family might not come - I thought it was kind of brilliant. lol Then I read the other PP's points about family changing their mind and deciding to come and realized that the idea might not be so hot after all. 

I also admit that I was pretty pissy about my fiance's family being so much bigger than my own as well (I had 35 and he had 75). He had to include a couple of his mother's friends and some extended family I've never met. Again, after reading PP's responses, it's not his fault that he has a larger family and I need to get over it (which I pretty much have). 

Basically, I don't envy your situation - sounds like you're going through quite a bit of emotional stress with all of this. Try to keep the big picture in mind though...and also remember what the day is really about. Good luck! 

primafaba15

Maggie0829, thank you for pointing this out (I can't get the quote function to work, but I assume it's obvious what I'm referring to).  We thought we were going by Emily Post (according to my mother), which we thought could be relied upon, but after hearing this so vehemently repeated on the forums we looked into this and this turned out to be based off a seriously outdated version that my mom had used when my folks were getting married and (I assume?) things were different.  When we counted them up, most of our 'plus-one' gaps were with younger cousins who are still living at home and will be attending with their families, which added additional confusion as we were told by our folks that we did not have to invite their SOs. 

At any rate, we are redoing our list, and have determined if I cut all of my non-mutual friends and some of the mutual friends, we can invite the SOs of all of the cousins involved (a couple of them are like, 15...I don't know if high school relationships from out of state get the same consideration -- I assume they have to, to be polite -- but if we can manage it they will get them anyway). 

sarahjane222, I really appreciate the support...glad I am not the only one dealing with this situation! At this point we have been pulled in so many directions with so many people giving conflicting advice and demands that I'm really about ready to be done with wedding planning and elope (not an option, but trust me, if I could....) 

I am just trying to focus on the ceremony, which is the part that is about us (as opposed to the reception, which as I've seen pointed out again and again is about entertaining/thanking the guests, not the bride), and remember that that is the true meaning of the day anyway and I can't please everyone or even close to it, and it won't be the end of the world if we can't invite all of our friends to the wedding. 

Again, I appreciate all of the advice, and I hope this thread hasn't permanently labelled me a bridezilla on these forums -- seemed like voicing a faux pas here was safer than unwittingly acting on it. :-) 

tammym1001

primafaba15 said:

Maggie0829, thank you for pointing this out (I can't get the quote function to work, but I assume it's obvious what I'm referring to).  We thought we were going by Emily Post (according to my mother), which we thought could be relied upon, but after hearing this so vehemently repeated on the forums we looked into this and this turned out to be based off a seriously outdated version that my mom had used when my folks were getting married and (I assume?) things were different.  When we counted them up, most of our 'plus-one' gaps were with younger cousins who are still living at home and will be attending with their families, which added additional confusion as we were told by our folks that we did not have to invite their SOs. 

At any rate, we are redoing our list, and have determined if I cut all of my non-mutual friends and some of the mutual friends, we can invite the SOs of all of the cousins involved (a couple of them are like, 15...I don't know if high school relationships from out of state get the same consideration -- I assume they have to, to be polite -- but if we can manage it they will get them anyway). 

sarahjane222, I really appreciate the support...glad I am not the only one dealing with this situation! At this point we have been pulled in so many directions with so many people giving conflicting advice and demands that I'm really about ready to be done with wedding planning and elope (not an option, but trust me, if I could....) 

I am just trying to focus on the ceremony, which is the part that is about us (as opposed to the reception, which as I've seen pointed out again and again is about entertaining/thanking the guests, not the bride), and remember that that is the true meaning of the day anyway and I can't please everyone or even close to it, and it won't be the end of the world if we can't invite all of our friends to the wedding. 

Again, I appreciate all of the advice, and I hope this thread hasn't permanently labelled me a bridezilla on these forums -- seemed like voicing a faux pas here was safer than unwittingly acting on it. :-) 

You are fine to not invite the SO of a 15 year old especially if they are coming from out of state. Putting on my judgey pants for a minute, but what kind of parent would let their 15 year old travel out of state with they bf/gf? 

You only have to invite SO's for people that are over 18. Anyone under 18 is being invited with their parents and that is their social unit.

[Deleted User]

You're stuck between a rock and a hard place, family or friends. The risk you run into with your plan is that you can't invite any friends then until family responds, because if you invite Jane & John but hold off on Betty & Jim & the four of them talk & realize that two got invites & two didn't, hurt feelings of friends. Also if family declines and two months before the wedding, you run the risk of them calling a month before the wedding & saying, my plans changed & I'm coming now. You want to tell them that they are no longer welcomed & you gave their spot away? Unfortunately I think you really need to sit down and truely evaluate your friends list on who is really important to you. Plus you really need to sit down with your parents & evaluate your family guest list to see where they can make cuts. FI already made cuts, so nothing to discuss there. Granted mom & dad are paying a nice chunk of the wedding. Figure out what percentage of the 96 spots they can have (after you take away spots for you, bridal party, parents, etc.). Just because they are paying for about 40% of your wedding, doesn't mean that they get 80% of the guest spots. You need to figure this out before sending out invites. The only time you can B list people are with save the dates. You can get away with sending those to just VIP people and not to people you aren't 100% sure are going to make the final invite list depending on your final budget.

esstee33

primafaba15 said:

Maggie0829, thank you for pointing this out (I can't get the quote function to work, but I assume it's obvious what I'm referring to).  We thought we were going by Emily Post (according to my mother), which we thought could be relied upon, but after hearing this so vehemently repeated on the forums we looked into this and this turned out to be based off a seriously outdated version that my mom had used when my folks were getting married and (I assume?) things were different.  When we counted them up, most of our 'plus-one' gaps were with younger cousins who are still living at home and will be attending with their families, which added additional confusion as we were told by our folks that we did not have to invite their SOs. 

At any rate, we are redoing our list, and have determined if I cut all of my non-mutual friends and some of the mutual friends, we can invite the SOs of all of the cousins involved (a couple of them are like, 15...I don't know if high school relationships from out of state get the same consideration -- I assume they have to, to be polite -- but if we can manage it they will get them anyway). 

sarahjane222, I really appreciate the support...glad I am not the only one dealing with this situation! At this point we have been pulled in so many directions with so many people giving conflicting advice and demands that I'm really about ready to be done with wedding planning and elope (not an option, but trust me, if I could....) 

I am just trying to focus on the ceremony, which is the part that is about us (as opposed to the reception, which as I've seen pointed out again and again is about entertaining/thanking the guests, not the bride), and remember that that is the true meaning of the day anyway and I can't please everyone or even close to it, and it won't be the end of the world if we can't invite all of our friends to the wedding. 

Again, I appreciate all of the advice, and I hope this thread hasn't permanently labelled me a bridezilla on these forums -- seemed like voicing a faux pas here was safer than unwittingly acting on it. :-) 

Lady, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to please everyone, and it's never going to happen anyway, so just chill and take some deep breaths. Guest list stuff sucks for basically everyone. 

You definitely don't seem like a bridezilla. This post is exactly why this forum is here, and why people stick around to give advice. You had an idea that you thought might be rude, so you asked, and it turned out that it would be rude. But instead of flipping shit on the people giving you advice, like SO many others do, you were extremely polite, thanked people and tried to come up with alternatives. This is wonderful. A+ at being a rational human being. 

"Plus ones" are only for truly single guests if you can afford it and have the wiggle room with your head count, just to be clear about the differentiation. Anyone else gets invited with their partner (by name!), no matter if they're engaged, living together, or even if they've only been dating for a few months. Even if a couple isn't living together, they're still a social unit if they consider themselves to be in a relationship. Think about it this way: what of the couples who don't live together until marriage for religious reasons? Or until they get engaged? What makes them less committed than those who do live together? It's an outdated, arbitrary line in the sand that results in hurt feelings for people when they think their friends don't respect their relationship, y'know?