Fiance rapidly lowering ring budget

cotton8744

I posted a few months ago asking if I should chip in to pay for my own engagement ring. I wanted a Neil Lane ring that was slightly over 6,000$. Fiancé only wanted to pay 3,000$. Going by the advice I was given here, we went to a local jeweler who told us he could make it for 3,400$, and include warranty, cleanings, etc. I LOVE this ring. I've looked at others but this is really what I want.

Tonight after discussing buying the ring, Fiancé informs me that 3,000$ is ridiculous to pay for a ring, a ring has no value in the event of an emergency, and he thinks we should shoot for something under a 1,000$

what. the hell????

Our relationship has been better than ever. He makes plenty of money, he has money saved up. I told him he had no problem buying his ex wife a 5,000$ ring (which she kept). He said yes, he very much regrets wasting 5,000$ on a ring. He said 3,000$ could be used for clothes, or whatever else I want or need. I pointed out that he has no problem spending 2,000$ on taking his daughter from his previous marriage to Disneyland (and she has been asking him to take her to Disneyworld, which he thinks is a great idea). He responded that was for making memories with her. I also told him he has had no problem in the past spending thousands on guns, a jet ski and what he is currently wanting, a truck. He tells me that we needs guns in the event of WW3 breaking out (okay), a jet ski in case it floods and also for his one stress release (uhhh) and he needs money for a good truck because he needs to haul trailors and wood. . He told me a diamond really isn't useful, it is a rock and holds no value except what we deem it.

To an extent, I see his point and agree with him. HOWEVER I am upset bc I feel like

1. I don't ask him for jack. I never ask for presents. I DONT want a fancy wedding, I just want to go to the courthouse. This will SAVE money. I have always just wanted a really, really nice ring.

2. I feel like he pulled a bait and switch

3. I am once again reminded and irritated that he has an ex wife. It never bothered me when we were just dating, but now situations like this come up where he had no problem doing it once, before with her. However now he wont/cant.

So what should we do? The jeweler gave us this great offer, and said he would give us 24hrs to think about it. He REALLY bought the price down and gave us a deal. Fiance agrees it's  great deal. He just doesn't want to spend the money. I have no idea how to feel or what to do.

bethsmiles

Personally, I would have left him taking his daughter on a trip out of your argument. It makes you sound petty and jealous of a little girl. The other things, I see your side of things and understand your frustration.

Do you make any decisions regarding finances as a couple? From your post it sounds like he has complete control of how money is spent. That is something you might want to address before getting married. It also sounds like you aren't comfortable with the fact that he was married before and have some jealousy/insecurity regarding that which is probably another big issue to resolve before getting married. 

As to what to do about the ring. I don't know that any of us can tell you what to do. You can't force him to spend his money how you want so your only options are to  buy it yourself, settle for a less expensive ring (maybe look at mosissanite in the same setting? It's a lot less expensive and still beautiful and similar to a diamond) or you can be done with the relationship if this really is a deal-breaker for you.

bethsmiles

This ring is moissanite and is very similar to the one from your original post a few months ago it would also around your BF's new budget:

http://www.moissaniteco.com/embrace-cushion-moissanite-engagement-ring-p-8973.html

XrebeccaX

Could there be some other issue? Is he worried about spending for some reason?

[Deleted User]

I'll just be honest, I'm seeing red flags all over your post.  

Two big ones:

First, like @bethsmiles said, it doesn't sound like you have much input regarding how money is spent in the relationship as a whole, which could be a big issue because it signals that there may be lines of communication that aren't open.

Second, your number 3.  I understand that it upsets you that he has an ex-wife.  Trust me, I get it...Mr. H has both an ex-wife AND an ex-fiancee.  I'm okay with his ex-wife (they've been divorced for a long time), but I have a lot of fundamental insecurities when it comes to the ex-fiancee.  To be frank: I've just had to deal with it.  It sounds to me like you're letting your insecurities about the ex-wife get in the way of any conversations you're having about your future together...even if you aren't bringing her up in conversations, she's looming over you like a dark cloud.  You need to decide if this is something that you're going to let bother you or if you're going to let it go.  It may mean continually reminding yourself that he's not still with his ex-wife...he's with you...but you're going to have to find a way to deal with it.  Otherwise, you're comparing yourself to her constantly, which isn't good for your relationship or healthy for you.

Maybe I'm a little old-school, but I truly believe that getting engaged is one of those moments in which you should both want to make the other one happy.  It's the little fairytale moment, and I think it SHOULD be that.  If I were in your situation, I'd sit down and talk with him...calmly, and without mentioning either his daughter or his ex-wife.  He needs to see how important this is to you, and you need to be able to express how you feel about it.

phira

I don't think the advice you're going to get this time is going to be much different than the advice you got the last time. You can't force him to spend a particular amount of money on an engagement ring. It doesn't matter if we agree with you that $X is a reasonable amount for a ring.

I think there are a lot of other red flags, though. You clearly do not approve of the way he spends his money, and it sounds like he doesn't make an effort to spend on you. You're also struggling with the fact that he's divorced; that's a situation that's never going to change, and if you want to marry him, you're going to be marrying someone who has an ex-wife and a daughter with her.

BreMR

I am probably going to get people to disagree with me here, but it sounds like your boyfriend does not put you first very often.  Now, I'm not saying that because he refuses to spend the money, rather, how could someone take you shopping, let you design a ring and then come back and say 'wait nope.'  Ouch.  That feels like a complete disregard for your feelings.

I do agree with the other posters though, there are some red flags.

Dignity100

I'm just going to agree with what's already been said.

A lot of women don't get any input on their ring.  A lesser expensive ring does not make it any less important or you any less engaged and it also doesn't mean that he loves you any less.  If the ring is that important to you, you need to let your BF know that it is important and why it is important to you.  He's given you reasons why he sees his gun collection and his jet ski as important; now it's your turn to tell him what the ring means to you and justify the cost of it.

The next thing is - your BF has 'baggage' from his previous relationship.  He was married before and he has a daughter from that relationship.  It sounds like you might be holding this against him which really isn't fair to him.  When you entered the relationship, did you know about his ex-wife and his daughter?  If you did - you entered in that relationship knowing and open; if you found out about it later - you opted to stay in that relationship. 

I'm going to be rather blunt (and maybe a little harsh) but if you're not willing to accept his past (his ex-wife and his daughter) then maybe this isn't the relationship for you; they have a child together and she will be in his life because his daughter is in his life.  Do you want this man (including his past) or do you want the ring and a husband? 

speakeasy14

I agree with @BreMR that is a huge problem.  Among the other red flags that have been mentioned, you have a severe communication issue.  Yes it is his decision on what he buys you, but you both need to be able to communicate without bringing up the past or focusing on only yourself (this applies to him as well).  

minskat30

It isn't about the money he is willing to spend on a ring, its the bait and switch of telling you a budget, the two of you working within that budget and then, somewhat arbitrarily changing his mind (unless he isn't doing as well financially as you think) that bugs me.  That isn't a communication.  What was his reaction when you found the $3,400 ring at the time? Excited? Upset? Did you talk to him originally about your idea to chip in? It does sound like he has some baggage from his Ex and buying a ring in the past but it also sounds like you are carrying that baggage along for the ride.

I wouldn't get into a comparison game with him about how he spends other things but not on you right now but I would be having a conversation with him about how you make decisions together as a couple.  One party doesn't just get to change their mind without reasoning it through to the other party...I mean, they can, but it usually doesn't end well.  Did he reason it through at all with you other than "this is ridiculous"? Did he say what he would like to save that money for? Does he (and you) have set financial goals you have both agreed on?

cotton8744

We actually communicate really well. It's the bait and switch that came out of nowhere that has me for a loop; setting a budget and then going back on it. I in NO way shape or form hold it against him for having an ex wife or daughter. He made a horrible decision to marry her, and it's been over 7 years since they divorced. What I dislike is how it feels like he is holding against me, as evidenced by "I spent 5,000$ on the first ring and regret it. I had picked out a 2 karat marquise ring, it was beautiful.". Okay so since it's the second time around the ring doesn't mater? 

No, he has no set plan on what the money could be saved for, except "other things". We have decided not to combine finances, and each of us takes care of different bills.

minskat30

I get feeling resentful but I will say I don't think you are communciating well around this issue.  He clearly has issues with associating the ring shopping with the Ex, money regret and bitter feelings.   You guys need to work through those issues by discussing them in a calm way...I don't know him or you but, to me, this doesn't seem like it is really "about you" for him right now, it is about him struggling with his past and feeling like he has made terrible descisions in the past (reminding him of those poor decisions won't help your case).  As hard as it is, you can't take it too personal.  When my H makes descisions he views as poor he gets somewhat unreasonable and stubborn. I try to remind him of the upsides behind "poor decisions", the good trajectory that he is on even though he views one of his descisions as poor, etc. Honestly, sounds like your BF's ego is butt hurt over this issue and it needs to be worked out by him with your help because getting mad about it (even though I understand why you would be) isn't going to help.

As far as no set plan on savings/finances, you guys should be talking about that too before you make the leap to get married.  Everyone is different but H and I both had respective financial plans before we met and had to adjust them to accommodate each others key points to each of our respective plans...we had that discussion before we discussed things like the ring.  Not combining finances is fine but you need to know who has what, how liquid/illiquid your funds are, what your backup plans are (i.e., job loss, sickness, etc.), what your respective and mutual goals are, etc.

cotton8744

Thank you miniskat!! I think we will work it out, and I think you are correct when it's about him and his past. We need to work on a financial plan too.

 

lilacck28

Please let us know how it goes. As PP have said, the red flags are glaring, and I feel really sad for you. This should be a happy time, not a moment where your feelings are disregarded as irrational or silly (I would be very concerned that this disregard will continue in the future, about multiple issues, not just the ring.) It also seems like maybe he is not as financially well off as you think, and is possibly hiding things from you? That's obviously conjecture, but something to watch out for. You should be aware of each others' finances.

cotton8744

He says we can get the ring, but he just thinks it's ridiculous to spend thousands on it. He says if I really want it that badly, sure. If it will really make me happy. But he would rather not because it isn't a symbol of our love, it's just a rock that sits on my finger.

Then he said, "If I were an E-1 private in the army would you still ask for such an expensive ring?" "No"

"So why are you wanting a ring based off of how much I make?"

This is all seriously coming out of left field. We usually communicate very well, get along just fine but this rig issue is bringing out PTSD from his previous marriage or something.

cotton8744

He just says the money can be used "elsewhere"....

bethsmiles

But engagement rings are a symbol of your love and commitment to one another. What they symbolize is what makes them engagement rings. I would be really hurt if BF said an engagement ring didn't symbolize anything.

Dignity100

Are you sure he's ready to get engaged/married?  It kind of sounds like he's not really on the same page as you. 

I would be really mad at my H if he had said that!!  I looked for lesser expensive rings because I felt guilty wanting a ring that in my eyes was expensive. . .my H basically sat me down, explained we could afford it and how I never ask for anything and he was happy to purchase my 'dream ring'.  H's feeling was basically that I would be wearing the ring for the rest of my life so he wanted me to be happy with it.  I will say, since my 'dream ring' was pricey in my eyes, I was willing to take it down a few notches though.

cotton8744

I agree with him to an extent, I truly do. There are plenty of things in life that I personally think are a waste of money. And yes, the ring is pretty much for my benefit only and to make me happy.

"It would make me happy if I had the ring"

"Okay, but it would make me happy if you chose one under 1,000$"

......Soooo I guess at this point we get the ring and he resents paying that much OR I let him go pick one out himself and within his price range? He says he will buy it for me, but that I'm guilting him into it..

We have never had any issue of this kind before, except now over a godforsaken ring.

minskat30

Ok, I hestitated to say this earlier but I have a feeling he is "testing" you with that army/budget question and I go back to the fact that he needs to work on his issues around being fearful of marrying someone who is money grabby. 

My answer to that question would have been "No, I wouldn't ask for a ring at any price point, that is something that you had to feel comfortable with in the first instance.  Once you felt comfortable with it we discussed it and we agreed that would be our budget. We then looked at rings in that budget and now you have decided to change that budget without actually really consulting me and instead you are trying to make me feel guilty for something we both mutually agreed on." 

bethsmiles

@Minskat30's wording is perfect. He needs to start being honest with you about what his feelings are about all of this. It seems like something else is going on here and I don't think you two will be able to resolve it until both of you are completely honest with each other about not only what you want but also why you want it.

lilacck28

I get that people have different priorities but... ahh this makes me so sad. I love my ring. LOVE IT. I look at my hand and have swoony feelings about my FI. The stone was my mother's. I will probably give this ring to a future daughter. Obviously many people do attribute meaning to engagement rings, and I would be really concerned with the way he is treating you right now. He is belittling you. Trying to make you feel badly. I would not marry someone who ever did that to me. EVER.

FI made a joke about me "coloring" once  (I'm an artist, at the time I was applying to graduate school for an MFA in studio art). I told him that I didn't like it, that it felt like he was devaluing something that was important to me. He IMMEDIATELY professed how sorry he was. He rambled for ten minutes about how much I meant to him and how much he loved that I made artwork, and how he never wanted me to feel that my thoughts and feelings didn't matter to him. If he had treated me the way your FI has treated you, I would have broken up with him.

If he had treated the purchase of an engagement ring the way your FI is.... I would not marry him.

eilis1228

As other PPs have said, there are red flags all over this. The fact that he's even saying the stone "means nothing" is a huge, gargantuan, in-your-face red flag that should not be ignored. Sure, there's no practical value to a ring, and he's acting like there's no intrinsic emotional value at all. Where is the feeling? Where is the love? I understand being on a budget. That's fine and dandy. You can get a beautiful ring for less than $1000. I absolutely adore my moissanite engagement ring, and in total, it cost us $1600. My FI and I didn't want to spend much more than that on a ring because we have other financial priorities, but we both love the ring and were both very excited to buy it. I'm not sensing any excitement from your FI based on your posts. 

Also, I may be the bad guy here, but it doesn't sound like you guys are that great at communicating. Or maybe it's just that when you argue, it all blows up? I'm not really sure. You keep bringing up his ex-wife and his daughter, which is a terrible idea. She's an ex for a reason, and you need to stop comparing your relationship to their's. Additionally, how he spends his time and money on his daughter has absolutely no place in an argument over you wanting an engagement ring. My jaw actually dropped when I read that you brought his daughter's trip to Disneyland into the argument. He's absolutely right when he says it's OK for him to spend money on memories with his daughter. Like other PPs have said, you come across as very jealous and immature in these particular situations. 

Also, when he asked you if you would ask for such an expensive ring (in his mind at least) if he made less, and you answered "no," well... that's not a great response in my opinion. If he really is afraid of a gold digger or a bad marriage, you telling him you want a ring based on his income is a bit materialistic. And, to be fair, you do keep mentioning that you know he's financially comfortable. Like others have said, maybe he doesn't make as much as you think, and maybe he is testing you. If this is true, then 1. you guys need to be on the same page about your finances before taking the next step in your relationship; and 2. wow, that's an incredibly immature way for him to gauge your feelings for him. I really hope none of that is true. 

So, let me put it this way. He's obviously seeing red flags from you, and his reaction is causing you to see red flags too. Whatever is going on, you need to sit down and calmly talk about it like adults. Keep the discussion limited to you and him. Do not bring family members or exes or friends or whoever else into the discussion. I don't know if the engagement ring sparked these issues or if they started beforehand, but you guys don't seem to have a lot of respect for each other's feelings/priorities right now based on what you've posted. You guys need to sit down and figure out the root of the problem here. 

bethsmiles

eilis1228 said:

Also, when he asked you if you would ask for such an expensive ring (in his mind at least) if he made less, and you answered "no," well... that's not a great response in my opinion. If he really is afraid of a gold digger or a bad marriage, you telling him you want a ring based on his income is a bit materialistic. And, to be fair, you do keep mentioning that you know he's financially comfortable. Like others have said, maybe he doesn't make as much as you think, and maybe he is testing you. If this is true, then 1. you guys need to be on the same page about your finances before taking the next step in your relationship; and 2. wow, that's an incredibly immature way for him to gauge your feelings for him. I really hope none of that is true. 

STIB:

I disagree with this. I don't think the question is fair. Everyone's budget for the ring has to do with how much they make. So to say well would you want this ring if I made significantly less is basically asking well would you want me to go into debt for the ring? She would probably still want the ring but recognize that they shouldn't go into debt for it and that would outweigh her want. Clearly, she is under the impression they can afford this ring without going into debt or huge financial strain. If that isn't true well then he needs to be honest and stop playing games with her because it's disrespectful and makes him a liar.

eilis1228

@bethsmiles I see your point, and I agree that him asking her that question isn't fair at all. It was obviously a loaded question, and he should just be up front about whatever is bothering him rather than playing games. Also, a response of just "no," doesn't really explain her feelings either.

Also, while I do agree that income plays a big role in the budget for a ring, it's not the only factor. FI and I have a combined income in the six figures, but we still opted for a less expensive ring because we have other financial priorities. Her BF may be well off financially, but his budget for her ring also won't be based solely off of his income. 

My whole point though is that both she and her BF aren't communicating with each other, and both are playing a role in this awful business. He's suddenly not very excited about an engagement, and she's trying to emotionally manipulate him with his ex-wife, daughter, and hobbies. Whatever he's hiding, he needs to be honest about it. Additionally, she needs to listen and ask questions rather than accusing him of spending more money on everyone but her. She's putting him on the defensive, which is only going to make the situation worse. 

bethsmiles

@eilis1228 - Ah, yes I see your point better now. And I absolutely agree that even if OP and her BF normally communicate very well in this circumstance good communication isn't happening which could be for any number of reasons.

Also, I just noticed it says "One Ring to Rule Them All" above your ticker and it made me happy!

Dignity100

bethsmiles said:

eilis1228 said:

Also, when he asked you if you would ask for such an expensive ring (in his mind at least) if he made less, and you answered "no," well... that's not a great response in my opinion. If he really is afraid of a gold digger or a bad marriage, you telling him you want a ring based on his income is a bit materialistic. And, to be fair, you do keep mentioning that you know he's financially comfortable. Like others have said, maybe he doesn't make as much as you think, and maybe he is testing you. If this is true, then 1. you guys need to be on the same page about your finances before taking the next step in your relationship; and 2. wow, that's an incredibly immature way for him to gauge your feelings for him. I really hope none of that is true. 

STIB:

I disagree with this. I don't think the question is fair. Everyone's budget for the ring has to do with how much they make. So to say well would you want this ring if I made significantly less is basically asking well would you want me to go into debt for the ring? She would probably still want the ring but recognize that they shouldn't go into debt for it and that would outweigh her want. Clearly, she is under the impression they can afford this ring without going into debt or huge financial strain. If that isn't true well then he needs to be honest and stop playing games with her because it's disrespectful and makes him a liar.

There's a difference between:
Would you still want this ring if I made a lot less?
AND
Would you be willing to look for and potentially fall in love with a less expensive ring if we could not afford this one/if I made less money?

The answer to the first question SHOULD be:  I love the ring and yes, I'd still want it if you made less; however I would be willing to compromise and find something I love just as much or wait while we saved up for the ring I really want.  There's jewelry I know I want that is WAY out of my price range, do I like to look at it and dream about owning it - sure - do I think it's actually obtainable - nope!  If H would ask me 'do you love that $50k ring?' I'd say 'Yeah, will you buy it for me after we a few million take-home in the lotto?'.

I absolutely love my ring set.  I tried to find a lesser expensive set that I loved just as much (because I felt guilty about the price).  My H could see my expressions and he knew that nothing was comparing to the ring I loved and he basically said 'You know what, we'll make it work'; we took a little extra time and saved up for it as we didn't want to go in debt over a ring/wedding. 

cotton8744

He is now saying, "I can find a really nice ring at Wal-mart and have my daughter pick it out."

"Why would you have your daughter pick it out? Im not marrying her."

"It would mean so much to her. "

I am 99% sure he is now joking and is saying all this to prank me. He LOATHES Wal-mart.

Either he really secretly  hates me or this is his version of a practical joke to have me convinced Im getting a cheap ring.....

cotton8744

The thing is, HE is the one who keeps bringing up his ex wifes ring. He brought it up at both stores.

zitiqueen

Dollar sign, then numbers. Dollar sign, then numbers.

bride2b71614

May I ask why the price of the ring is so important to you? I understand that you are frustrated because he gave you a budget and switched it last minute, but I am honestly perplexed at the fact that you continue to complain about getting a "cheap" ring. Most people would be ecstatic that they are getting to marry the person they love, and will see the ring is an added bonus (this is more of a personal preference thing, as you don't need a ring to be "engaged"). Instead of focusing on your future with your SO, you are unable to look past a price tag for a ring. I sincerely hope you know that the amount of money someone spends on a ring does not equate to how much that person loves you. 

ETA (deleted a bunch of words): Another thing: it really seems like your FSD is a source of tension for your relationship. In your first post about going halvsies on the ring, you mentioned how you didn't want your FSD to tag along while you were going ring shopping. Then, you got upset with your SO because he decided to spend money on a vacation to Disneyland with his daughter instead of your dream ring. In your most recent update, you were upset with him because he joked about sending his daughter to Walmart to pick out a ring. You responded snarkily and got even more upset after he said that it would mean a lot to her.  An engagement ring symbolizes the start of your future together. If I were in his shoes, and I heard you say "why can't you pick it out? I am not marrying her!" I'd feel like you weren't willing to include my daughter in our future together (raising red flags). 

I understand that you had a child by this man, but he can't just cut his first child out of his life. He HAS to stop testing you/giving you loaded questions to answer, and needs to do a better job of making you feel more secure in this relationship. You need to show him that you are making more of an effort to accept his daughter. You seem to be having an extremely difficult time doing so, and it's clearly affecting your relationship. Try to shift your focus off of the ring and onto addressing these issues, it will benefit you in the long run.

TDLR: OP shouldn't focus so much on the ring. OPs behavior towards FSD is off putting, and is affecting her relationship.