Black-Tie

Teddy917

I'm not having or going to a black tie event. I'm just bored and curious about something. To be black-tie an event must follow certain rules: white glove service, valet parking, live band, etc. One of the rules of black-tie that I learned from TK is that it must have top shelf alcohol. Hypothetically, would it still be black-tie if it broke that one rule? Like let's say Jane doesn't want alcohol at her wedding for religious reasons but other than that her wedding follows all other requirements for black-tie; would it still qualify?

KatieinBkln

That would be black bolo tie. Black clerical collar. Honestly I feel like most "religious reasons" non-drinkers tend to eschew most black-tie-style events because the whole luxurious thing is a bit ostentatious and worldly. But I could be wrong.

Liatris2010

No Blanton's? No black tie.

Teddy917

KatieinBkln said:

That would be black bolo tie.
Black clerical collar.

Honestly I feel like most "religious reasons" non-drinkers tend to eschew most black-tie-style events because the whole luxurious thing is a bit ostentatious and worldly. But I could be wrong.

I agree that, at least in my circle, those that choose to have an alcohol-wedding, also choose not to have fancy affairs.

LondonLisa

I once went to a black tie event hosted by the Saudi royal family. Although alcohol is illegal in Saudi Arabia, the champagne and whiskey was free flowing at this event! They also had a lot of fruit juices etc for those that didn't drink. 

I find that if one is used to hosting/ attending black tie events, one realises that people expect alcohol, even if one does not drink themselves. 

If one is so religious or against alcohol that they cannot even be in the presence of it, black tie formal events are usually also out of the picture as they tend to be opulent and indulgent, which should also go against their beliefs.

Frankly, it is fine to host a dry wedding/ event, but I do side-eye when people do it sanctimoniously.   

thisismynickname2

Would anybody be standing at the bar eyeing the bottles and clutching their pearls if the the booze wasn't top shelf * enough *?  

There's some really freakishly expensive alcohol out there, but the nicest we could choose at our venue was like Belvedere (I believe, can't exactly remember).  

I recently attended a wedding that truly could have been black tie (the bride didn't request a black tie dress code). It had free valet, white glove service, and a live band. I couldn't tell you what was behind the bar (but it sure tasted good).  

LondonLisa, I'm rather jealous... that sounds awesome. 

Jells2dot0

My first wedding would have been considered black tie except I had a DJ. In fact, I got flamed quite a bit on here (back in 2003/2004) for hiring a DJ because I was having an otherwise "luxury" wedding and was "cheaping out" by not having a band. I really do not like band versions of songs, so I hired a DJ to hear the real versions we are used to hearing on the radio. I had a string trio for the cocktail hour, though.

Anyway, I personally would still have considered the wedding to be on black tie level, even with the DJ. However, based on what 've seen on here, it's not.

MrsMarende

Personally I think if there is NO alcohol it could still be black tie, but if there is alcohol and it is not of a certain caliber than it is not. 

@jells2dot0 Did you still request black-tie attire. I am having a similar situation. Everything in the wedding is top notch. 5 course dinner, top shelf booze, valet, white glove service, ect. ect. we are having live music during the ceremony and at the cocktail hour, however my fiance wanted a DJ. I tried to convince him of a band, but the music is the only thing he has any real interest in and he wants a DJ so we can have many different types of music including traditional African music (that is where he is from). 

I have been struggling with this, because I do want guests to know the formality but I also want to stay on the right side of etiquette. Californians tend to be more laid back in the dress department, but the event really does call for a more formal attire.  

Jells2dot0

@MrsMarende I did not make note of the attire on the invites. Based on the venue chosen and the time of day it was held, I made the assumption that my guests knew the level of formality.

MrsMarende

Sounds like everything turned out well for you. Did you have many women dressed in gowns? 

southernbelle0915

MrsMarende said:

Personally I think if there is NO alcohol it could still be black tie, but if there is alcohol and it is not of a certain caliber than it is not. 

@jells2dot0 Did you still request black-tie attire. I am having a similar situation. Everything in the wedding is top notch. 5 course dinner, top shelf booze, valet, white glove service, ect. ect. we are having live music during the ceremony and at the cocktail hour, however my fiance wanted a DJ. I tried to convince him of a band, but the music is the only thing he has any real interest in and he wants a DJ so we can have many different types of music including traditional African music (that is where he is from). 

I have been struggling with this, because I do want guests to know the formality but I also want to stay on the right side of etiquette. Californians tend to be more laid back in the dress department, but the event really does call for a more formal attire.  

The best way to indicate the event is fancy is to have fancy invitations and a swanky venue.

If I get a super formal, fancy invitation to an evening wedding at a venue known for its swank, I'm going to dress to the nine, probably get my hair done, etc. If I get a casual, cheap invitation to an afternoon banquet hall wedding, I will wear a more casual dress and heels.

Out of curiosity, why do you care if people wear gowns?

Jells2dot0

I did have a very classic, formal invitation.

From what I can recall, most women were dressed in more formal dresses (long rather than short) it was 10 years ago, so my memory isn't all that great my second wedding was super informal.

beethery

Jells2dot0 said:

My first wedding would have been considered black tie except I had a DJ. In fact, I got flamed quite a bit on here (back in 2003/2004) for hiring a DJ because I was having an otherwise "luxury" wedding and was "cheaping out" by not having a band. I really do not like band versions of songs, so I hired a DJ to hear the real versions we are used to hearing on the radio. I had a string trio for the cocktail hour, though.

Anyway, I personally would still have considered the wedding to be on black tie level, even with the DJ. However, based on what 've seen on here, it's not.

Anyone who gave you shit for that needs to check their fucking priorities. DJs are rad as fuck.

JellyBean52513

beethery said:

Jells2dot0 said:

My first wedding would have been considered black tie except I had a DJ. In fact, I got flamed quite a bit on here (back in 2003/2004) for hiring a DJ because I was having an otherwise "luxury" wedding and was "cheaping out" by not having a band. I really do not like band versions of songs, so I hired a DJ to hear the real versions we are used to hearing on the radio. I had a string trio for the cocktail hour, though.

Anyway, I personally would still have considered the wedding to be on black tie level, even with the DJ. However, based on what 've seen on here, it's not.

Anyone who gave you shit for that needs to check their fucking priorities. DJs are rad as fuck.

I agree. I think the concept of "black tie," or any social concept really, needs to be flexible and adapt with the times. Maybe a long time ago, some other form of music/entertainment that was less opulent than a live band might've taken away from a wedding's potential to be considered black time, but in current times, DJs are a completely legitimate and acceptable form of entertainment. As long as the DJ is good at his/her job, I would never discredit a wedding's status as "black tie" just because they had a DJ. In fact, I prefer DJs. They have a greater range of ability in what kind of music they can play, and all of the songs don't sound exactly the same as they tend to do when a band is performing/covering them. Also, some live bands just aren't that great. Just because live band =/= luxury and elegance.

Jells2dot0

JellyBean52513 said:

beethery said:

Jells2dot0 said:

My first wedding would have been considered black tie except I had a DJ. In fact, I got flamed quite a bit on here (back in 2003/2004) for hiring a DJ because I was having an otherwise "luxury" wedding and was "cheaping out" by not having a band. I really do not like band versions of songs, so I hired a DJ to hear the real versions we are used to hearing on the radio. I had a string trio for the cocktail hour, though.

Anyway, I personally would still have considered the wedding to be on black tie level, even with the DJ. However, based on what 've seen on here, it's not.

Anyone who gave you shit for that needs to check their fucking priorities. DJs are rad as fuck.

I agree. I think the concept of "black tie," or any social concept really, needs to be flexible and adapt with the times. Maybe a long time ago, some other form of music/entertainment that was less opulent than a live band might've taken away from a wedding's potential to be considered black time, but in current times, DJs are a completely legitimate and acceptable form of entertainment. As long as the DJ is good at his/her job, I would never discredit a wedding's status as "black tie" just because they had a DJ. In fact, I prefer DJs. They have a greater range of ability in what kind of music they can play, and all of the songs don't sound exactly the same as they tend to do when a band is performing/covering them. Also, some live bands just aren't that great. Just because live band =/= luxury and elegance.

Thanks ladies!!!

My DJ played a very wide range of music and wore a tux! I also had the live music at the ceremony and cocktail hour.  Based on what I wanted, I thought he did a great job. I'm not sure a live band would have given me the same experience. I've seen some decent wedding bands, but it's not really my personal taste.

LtPowers

"Black tie" is purely a description of attire. I have never heard of valet service or a band being a prerequisite for dressing in evening attire.

southernbelle0915

LtPowers said:

"Black tie" is purely a description of attire. I have never heard of valet service or a band being a prerequisite for dressing in evening attire.

Wrong. Black tie is an event style. An event isn't black tie just because someone puts it on their invites. In fact, if I see black tie on an invitation, I go out and buy a new ball gown and then its not actually black tie, I'd be pissed at the hosts.

lc07

I would side-eye the shit out of a black tie event with no alcohol.

I would not side-eye a black tie event that had a DJ, but I would expect some sort of live music as well.

larrygaga

LondonLisa said:

I once went to a black tie event hosted by the Saudi royal family. Although alcohol is illegal in Saudi Arabia, the champagne and whiskey was free flowing at this event! They also had a lot of fruit juices etc for those that didn't drink. 

I find that if one is used to hosting/ attending black tie events, one realises that people expect alcohol, even if one does not drink themselves. 

If one is so religious or against alcohol that they cannot even be in the presence of it, black tie formal events are usually also out of the picture as they tend to be opulent and indulgent, which should also go against their beliefs.

Frankly, it is fine to host a dry wedding/ event, but I do side-eye when people do it sanctimoniously.   

The fuck did you do to get that invite 

LondonLisa

larrygaga said:

LondonLisa said:

I once went to a black tie event hosted by the Saudi royal family. Although alcohol is illegal in Saudi Arabia, the champagne and whiskey was free flowing at this event! They also had a lot of fruit juices etc for those that didn't drink. 

I find that if one is used to hosting/ attending black tie events, one realises that people expect alcohol, even if one does not drink themselves. 

If one is so religious or against alcohol that they cannot even be in the presence of it, black tie formal events are usually also out of the picture as they tend to be opulent and indulgent, which should also go against their beliefs.

Frankly, it is fine to host a dry wedding/ event, but I do side-eye when people do it sanctimoniously.   

The fuck did you do to get that invite 

Through Fi's family, but it is important to note there are 2,000+ members of the Saudi royal family (not even speaking in hyperbole!) and I was one of thousands at this event, so it wasn't a super exclusive invite by the King or anything. I was still excited to go and it was a beautiful event, nonetheless!

blabla89

LtPowers said:

"Black tie" is purely a description of attire. I have never heard of valet service or a band being a prerequisite for dressing in evening attire.

"Black tie" can be used specifically to describe attire, but black tie attire is only necessary for very formal events. Valet service, multi-course dinner, swanky venue, top shelf alcohol, etc. define the formality of the event. It's totally inappropriate to indicate that a wedding is black tie, and expect guests to dress to that level of formality, when the event itself doesn't meet those standards of formality. (But really, it's not appropriate to tell guests what to wear at all.)

dcbride86

My mom REALLY wants to put "Black Tie Optional" on the invites, which I hate because my venue is very swanky and I don't want it to feel stuffy.  Plus, my bridesmaids are wearing short dresses, so I don't think it makes that much sense.

Honestly, I think she just wants my dad to wear a tux...

LondonLisa

ssautter said:

My mom REALLY wants to put "Black Tie Optional" on the invites, which I hate because my venue is very swanky and I don't want it to feel stuffy.  Plus, my bridesmaids are wearing short dresses, so I don't think it makes that much sense.

Honestly, I think she just wants my dad to wear a tux...

Tell her that "black tie optional" is not a thing. It inconveniences your guests and if you want people to wear a dinner jacket you need to provide a black tie-style event. An event is either black tie or it is not. The rule is, if you have to ask, it usually isn't.

By all means, host a black tie wedding, but I would turn around and say to Mum: "OK, we can have a black tie wedding, but you will need to pay for all the upgrades to make sure the attire requested matches the formality. This means at least 5 course meal, full open bar, upgrading flowers, band, reordering BM dresses as gowns, butler-ed service, etc. Otherwise, we are fine with our formal, but still suit appropriate wedding".

"Black tie optional" screams: I have never been to a black tie event but I want to pretend like I do at the expense of my guests. Anyone who actually owns a Dinner Jacket will know what a black tie event is, and side-eye it. Anyone who doesn't, will have to pay money to rent a tux.

I would be mortified if I showed up to a black tie wedding in a gown and everyone else was in suits and short dresses (especially the BMs). I would most likely leave as soon as dinner was over because of embarrassment. No one likes to be that overdressed. 

PrettyGirlLost

ssautter said:

My mom REALLY wants to put "Black Tie Optional" on the invites, which I hate because my venue is very swanky and I don't want it to feel stuffy.  Plus, my bridesmaids are wearing short dresses, so I don't think it makes that much sense.

Honestly, I think she just wants my dad to wear a tux...

Then she can just rent a tux for him. Black tie optional is not a thing and should not ever be used on invitations.

You should never, ever, ever write attire directives on wedding invitations. It doesn't matter one bit what your guests wear to your wedding, no matter how fancy your venue is. Their clothing will honestly not affect you.

dcbride86

PrettyGirlLost said:

My mom REALLY wants to put "Black Tie Optional" on the invites, which I hate because my venue is very swanky and I don't want it to feel stuffy.  Plus, my bridesmaids are wearing short dresses, so I don't think it makes that much sense.

Honestly, I think she just wants my dad to wear a tux...

Then she can just rent a tux for him. Black tie optional is not a thing and should not ever be used on invitations. You should never, ever, ever write attire directives on wedding invitations. It doesn't matter one bit what your guests wear to your wedding, no matter how fancy your venue is. Their clothing will honestly not affect you.

Yes, I know all this.  It's so weird that she would even want it because she's been to several black tie events and weddings.  But sometimes she's insane.  I love her - obviously - but she's been known for saying things like "we can do this MY way, or we can do it MY way, but we're going to do it MY WAY."

Hopefully when we look at invitations, I can talk her off the ledge.  Like I said, I think she just wants my dad to wear his tux.  She bought him one for a black tie wedding and a black tie gala this year, and just wants him to get use out of it. 

 

...Or maybe I can just change the wording on the invites on the DL.  Hahaha she may never even realize it

cowgirl8238

I think the alcohol would be a bigger disqualifcation of black-tie than a DJ would but this is comming from someone who never went to a black tie event....I don't know, even for religious reasons it doesn't seem black tie without good quality alcohol.

ETF: Missing word

dcbride86

LondonLisa said:

ssautter said:

My mom REALLY wants to put "Black Tie Optional" on the invites, which I hate because my venue is very swanky and I don't want it to feel stuffy.  Plus, my bridesmaids are wearing short dresses, so I don't think it makes that much sense.

Honestly, I think she just wants my dad to wear a tux...

Tell her that "black tie optional" is not a thing. It inconveniences your guests and if you want people to wear a dinner jacket you need to provide a black tie-style event. An event is either black tie or it is not. The rule is, if you have to ask, it usually isn't.

By all means, host a black tie wedding, but I would turn around and say to Mum: "OK, we can have a black tie wedding, but you will need to pay for all the upgrades to make sure the attire requested matches the formality. This means at least 5 course meal, full open bar, upgrading flowers, band, reordering BM dresses as gowns, butler-ed service, etc. Otherwise, we are fine with our formal, but still suit appropriate wedding".

"Black tie optional" screams: I have never been to a black tie event but I want to pretend like I do at the expense of my guests. Anyone who actually owns a Dinner Jacket will know what a black tie event is, and side-eye it. Anyone who doesn't, will have to pay money to rent a tux.

I would be mortified if I showed up to a black tie wedding in a gown and everyone else was in suits and short dresses (especially the BMs). I would most likely leave as soon as dinner was over because of embarrassment. No one likes to be that overdressed. 

Yes, I agree with you.  I'm certainly not asking my mom to pay for things to make it seem black tie.  Almost the opposite, actually.  I want it to be more casual and fun.  It's just a matter of getting her to chill out about it.  I think "black tie optional" was a HUGE thing around when I had my bat mitzvah (because what says black tie more than a bunch of 12 year olds playing stupid games on a dance floor?).  I just need to show her that, no, it isn't really a thing.

I think that when we get invitations, I'll be able to get her to drop it.  She's a little crazy (in the best possible way), but she usually understands where I'm coming from eventually

raissyrais

Jells2dot0 said:

JellyBean52513 said:

beethery said:

Jells2dot0 said:

My first wedding would have been considered black tie except I had a DJ. In fact, I got flamed quite a bit on here (back in 2003/2004) for hiring a DJ because I was having an otherwise "luxury" wedding and was "cheaping out" by not having a band. I really do not like band versions of songs, so I hired a DJ to hear the real versions we are used to hearing on the radio. I had a string trio for the cocktail hour, though.

Anyway, I personally would still have considered the wedding to be on black tie level, even with the DJ. However, based on what 've seen on here, it's not.

Anyone who gave you shit for that needs to check their fucking priorities. DJs are rad as fuck.

I agree. I think the concept of "black tie," or any social concept really, needs to be flexible and adapt with the times. Maybe a long time ago, some other form of music/entertainment that was less opulent than a live band might've taken away from a wedding's potential to be considered black time, but in current times, DJs are a completely legitimate and acceptable form of entertainment. As long as the DJ is good at his/her job, I would never discredit a wedding's status as "black tie" just because they had a DJ. In fact, I prefer DJs. They have a greater range of ability in what kind of music they can play, and all of the songs don't sound exactly the same as they tend to do when a band is performing/covering them. Also, some live bands just aren't that great. Just because live band =/= luxury and elegance.

Thanks ladies!!!

My DJ played a very wide range of music and wore a tux! I also had the live music at the ceremony and cocktail hour.  Based on what I wanted, I thought he did a great job. I'm not sure a live band would have given me the same experience. I've seen some decent wedding bands, but it's not really my personal taste.

Oooof thanks cause i'm having a very elegant/luxury wedding in a 5 star+ hotel and I felt like hiding when some of you mentioned that a DJ is no good if that's what I'm trying to pull off... However I didn't mention anything on the invitation about attire. I hope people will know how to dress!

southernbelle0915

@ssautter - If your mom wants your dad to wear a tux, that's between her and him. "Black tie optional" only exists in the world where "Resort Casual" "Festive Casual" "Outdoor Dressy" and other made up dress codes exist. It's a terrible place to which no one should ever go. 

It's expensive for guests to attend a black tie event. And, as a guest, if I shell out a bunch of money to do so, I'm going to be all kinds of pissed if I get there and it's not actually a black tie event. 

Also, I judge the couple/hosts for clearly having no idea about etiquette. It's like they try to get their guests to dress up so their event seems fancier than it is. Ugh. The "Black tie optional" weddings I've been to are batting 1000 for not actually being black tie events. So I don't even dress up for it anymore. H wears a suit and I wear a cocktail dress - like any other wedding.

dcbride86

southernbelle0915 said:

@ssautter - If your mom wants your dad to wear a tux, that's between her and him. "Black tie optional" only exists in the world where "Resort Casual" "Festive Casual" "Outdoor Dressy" and other made up dress codes exist. It's a terrible place to which no one should ever go. 

It's expensive for guests to attend a black tie event. And, as a guest, if I shell out a bunch of money to do so, I'm going to be all kinds of pissed if I get there and it's not actually a black tie event. 

Also, I judge the couple/hosts for clearly having no idea about etiquette. It's like they try to get their guests to dress up so their event seems fancier than it is. Ugh. The "Black tie optional" weddings I've been to are batting 1000 for not actually being black tie events. So I don't even dress up for it anymore. H wears a suit and I wear a cocktail dress - like any other wedding.

Yes, I know this.  Again, this is my mom's thing, not mine.  I'm sure I'll be able to change it before we actually select an invite and order them.  It's just something that's driving me crazy about my mom

KatWAG

We had a "black tie" wedding. the reason for the quotes is because I didnt care if someone wore a suit. And just like Jells, we didnt put it one the invite.

The only thing we didnt that wasnt truly black tie was we didnt have valet. We got married in downtown chicago and we few people actually drove to the wedding, and the ones that did parked at the parking garage across the street.