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Disappointed in youth

Wow. Just wow.  I am in total disbelief/ saw it coming... if that makes any sense.  My niece (she is my sister's fiance's daughter) called CPS on her father.  Her father is a hard working man and works two jobs to support the family.  He really is not hard on his daughter at all. She has been skipping classes, failing subjects, and lies constantly. Recently, she got  a 40% in one of her classes and he punished her from going to a Halloween party. She smart mouthed him, and he smacked her in the butt. 
I, for one, believe you should NEVER spank a child, unless they are really young and are about to touch an electrical outlet/ something dangerous, then you give them a smack on the hand.  But I know this man, I am over their house, sometimes, as much as 5 days a week (especially when H is working a lot). He is a very nice guy, the extent of being a pushover, especially with his daughter, and would never hurt anyone. It took CPS a week to check on the household.  I am so upset, because, for a real emergency, that is too long to inspect a living situation.  There could be a child in imminent danger, and they have to investigate homes with kids who were just calling the authorities for revenge. 
I was that child who needed CPS intervention, once.  My step-father almost killed me by strangling me. To think that some people call the cops and CPS just because they couldn't go to a party and their dad smacked them on the butt, makes me nauseous.  There are kids who are being abused and cops are wasting their time with kids who are just spoiled and getting back at their parents.. My niece has called CPS on her mother, before, and said that her mother abused her, as well.  I guess she does it to scare her parents into giving her what she wants.  I am just so disappointed/ disgusted, right now. I just don't know what to do. She is still my niece, but I don't know if this is typical teenage shenanigans these days, or if these is who she is becoming. Any advice on how to be a good aunt in a situation like this? 
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Re: Disappointed in youth

  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited November 2014
    He hit a teenage girl on her butt. She felt threatened and called the agency designated to keep an eye on child welfare. And your reaction is to be disgusted by youth?!?

    You be a good aunt in this situation by recognizing that an outsider never knows what's really happening in a home and by being a calm non-judgmental listening ear for whoever needs you.

    ETA: also, you know what never hitting kids looks like? It looks like actually never hitting them, whether you call it spanking, tapping, smacking, or slapping.
  • Enh. Sometimes people are born to be assholes. One asshole teenager does not an entire generation of assholes make.

    I've known assholes raised by good parents, and i've known people raised by "good" parents who were in fact anything but. If she's the former, her parents can kick her out when she's 18 and she'll learn then.
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  • I guess I'd just trust that CPS will do its job and realize that nothing untoward is happening (if that's the case) or step in and help if something more than you know is happening. You can't KNOW-know either way, but you can hope that the authorities in charge of this stuff know the difference between a false alarm and a serious issue.

    Either way, it seems to me that this girl is crying for SOME kind of help. I'm not sure how you give that to her, but being a nonjudgmental sounding board as @STARMOON44 suggests may help. If you can't stand to be around each other, maybe not, but it's possible there's some other nasty shit happening to her (outside of the home) that she's projecting. The more safe places she has, the more likely she is to open up about whatever is causing her so much pain (and that's what teens/kids acting out IS, by the way. It's not always a crisis, but it's always some kind of misguided attempt to be heard).
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  • This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I do believe in spanking. I also believe that there must be a balance in disciplining kids. No, I don't think spanking a child who is older than probably 6 is appropriate or effective, but those are the reasons I wouldn't do it: it's not appropriate or effective.

    As far as the point of your post, I will say that I deal with this all of the time in my job. I have so many kids on my caseload that completely defy their parents and do whatever the hell they want to do, and if the parent tries to discipline them with any form of corporal punishment, DHR (our version of CPS) gets involved. I even had a mom be attacked by her 15 year old son, she fought back and left a mark on his neck, and they took him out of her home for it temporarily because she was deemed abusive. At least where I'm from, the system gives kids all the power in the world and they know it. It's a shame. But this is also why I believe in spanking. If you discipline them correctly when they're 2, you don't have a 15 year old attacking you later on. 

    I do agree with @starmoon44 in the best way, IMO, to handle this is to realize that no, we don't know what all goes on in someone's home and if your niece or whomever happens to open up to you about it, be calm and listen to what they have to say. 
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  • larrygagalarrygaga member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited November 2014
    You know how overloaded those poor social workers are? Maybe if we put more money into those programs they would have enough people to investigate in a timely manner. They do what they can with the resources they have, and maybe instead of complaining about CPS you should be teaching that little asshole to stop wasting our already depleted resources. Or realize that it could be real and you should be supporting her. One or the other. 

    Put blame where blame is due. 

    Also, you really don't know the full story. They could have began investigation immediately and maybe the dad isn't the saint you think he is? I'm not saying that all this is true, but if you don't know all the facts FOR SURE all you are doing is...well...complaining.

    CPS is confidential, you don't know the full story.
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  • Wow. Just wow.  I am in total disbelief/ saw it coming... if that makes any sense.  My niece (she is my sister's fiance's daughter) called CPS on her father.  Her father is a hard working man and works two jobs to support the family.  He really is not hard on his daughter at all. She has been skipping classes, failing subjects, and lies constantly. Recently, she got  a 40% in one of her classes and he punished her from going to a Halloween party. She smart mouthed him, and he smacked her in the butt. 
    I, for one, believe you should NEVER spank a child, unless they are really young and are about to touch an electrical outlet/ something dangerous, then you give them a smack on the hand.  But I know this man, I am over their house, sometimes, as much as 5 days a week (especially when H is working a lot). He is a very nice guy, the extent of being a pushover, especially with his daughter, and would never hurt anyone. It took CPS a week to check on the household.  I am so upset, because, for a real emergency, that is too long to inspect a living situation.  There could be a child in imminent danger, and they have to investigate homes with kids who were just calling the authorities for revenge. 
    I was that child who needed CPS intervention, once.  My step-father almost killed me by strangling me. To think that some people call the cops and CPS just because they couldn't go to a party and their dad smacked them on the butt, makes me nauseous.  There are kids who are being abused and cops are wasting their time with kids who are just spoiled and getting back at their parents.. My niece has called CPS on her mother, before, and said that her mother abused her, as well.  I guess she does it to scare her parents into giving her what she wants.  I am just so disappointed/ disgusted, right now. I just don't know what to do. She is still my niece, but I don't know if this is typical teenage shenanigans these days, or if these is who she is becoming. Any advice on how to be a good aunt in a situation like this? 
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  • He spanked a teenager? I'm curious how old this girl is too. Because what is that going to do?

    Teenagers smart mouth their parents, it's what they do. He lost control. She called CPS. Hopefully, they'll investigate and find nothing. But I agree with other posters that it sounds like she may have something else going on in her life that she needs an adult to talk to, not punish her.

    Or maybe she's just a brat, and she should be grounded. 
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  • edited November 2014
    She's 17. I have tried to reach out to her, and just be a good role model. She has been trying this back and forth game with her parents, and her mother no longer talks to her over it. She tried to move in with her mother this summer, because she was grounded for failing three classes and skipping school. But she knew that she didn't get spoiled as much with her mother, and it was just a ploy to get her father to drop her punishment. Which he did. She has been back and forth between the houses 3 times now, and she just admitted that she was in family court, today.
       I believe taking away privileges with teenagers is the answer, and not smacking them. Teenagers crave a social life, and when they learn their behavior doesn't warrant sleepovers or trips to the mall, they usually straighten up. She has her whole family thinking my brother in law mistreats her because he couldn't afford to throw a birthday party for her with 50 people after he lost his job. She still talks about that to this day. I am at the house, more often than her father, because he works so much. I have seen her do some really strange things, like try to get her brother to call her mom and tell people my sister doesn't want her in any family pictures. Then I see her delete pictures of the family if she is in them.  I, seriously, think she needs counseling, and the whole family, too.  I just hope it's not too late.
  • You know, on reflection, you call this girl your niece. But from her point of view, fathers fiancées sister is actually . . . Someone who isn't related to her at all and doesn't need to have a role in her life.

    It might be worth considering why you're so involved in this situation and if there's a way you can create stronger boundaries. Because it's not your place to solve this.
  • And I never once blamed CPS.  It helped me when they were called, when I was a kid. I never called them, my step-mother did.
        I know they have limited resources.  And I am not judging them in any way.  The reason they can't get to houses in time, is because of so many phony calls and claims, and they are understaffed and underfunded. That is my beef, if this is just to get her way, some poor child is suffering longer in an abusive home.
      i hope they can all work this out, and they can make it through this. I hope they get into counseling soon, I would hate for their relationship to become broken beyond repair.
  • edited November 2014
    As a social worker you cannot get upset with CPS. There are low priority cases and high priority cases. We don't know what she said on her report to CPS, so chances are they categorized it as low priority. They are overworked and understaffed, so the low priority cases are going to naturally have to take longer to resolve. Are you mad at CPS for not performing well, or are you acknowledging that they have to deal with far too many situations like this on a daily basis that they cannot keep up. 

    I can't tell if you think this was an emergency on her behalf, or if you think she is being dramatic? 
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  • Holy fuck! She's SEVENTEEN and he hit her? Yeah that's not cool.. My dad hit me like that at 15 (I was a good kid but did something stupid , boys always got me in trouble) and that was still way out of line. 

    She clearly needs help of some sort. There is no way a kid would do this if they didn't need something. Either she needs psychological help, emotional, or any combination of help. Be there for her and maybe offer to take her bowling or some sort of activity for the afternoon where it isn't spoiling her but gives you guys the ability to talk. Do not be judgemental.. she is probably in a fragile state, one way or another. 
  • It's not my place to scold her or punish her.  I was just wondering what I could do to be a positive role model, help her think of others before she thinks of herself.  She has been in my life a long while.  I know she may not see me as an aunt, but I will always think of her as my niece.
  • It's not my place to scold her or punish her.  I was just wondering what I could do to be a positive role model, help her think of others before she thinks of herself.  She has been in my life a long while.  I know she may not see me as an aunt, but I will always think of her as my niece.

    The thing is though, when someone hits you, you shouldn't think about others before yourself. You should do what you need to do to take care of yourself.
  • I am not mad at CPS over this issue. Not at all. I am mad at people who make phony claims, while some child is getting the daylights beat out of them.
    I think it was inappropriate for him to spank her. It is ineffective.  He just spanked her once, but it means nothing to a 17 year old. Being grounded from a party is devastating to a 17 year old, and much more effective.
       When I was 13, my mother spanked me once in the butt for acting like a fool in a walmart.  It was't hard but the humiliation of a spanking was embarrassment enough. I always acted like an adult, after that. However, I would never do that with my own children.
  • It's not a phony claim. She called and reported her father hit her. Her father did, in fact, hit her. Like many others have said, child services have procedures in place to deal with a range of situations, from nope nothing wrong here to torture.
  • And she was already grounded (couldn't go to a party). Sounds like the girl has a lot of issues.
  • I think a grown man touching my rear end in any capacity is so beyond completely inappropriate. 
  • And I never once blamed CPS.  It helped me when they were called, when I was a kid. I never called them, my step-mother did.
        I know they have limited resources.  And I am not judging them in any way.  The reason they can't get to houses in time, is because of so many phony calls and claims, and they are understaffed and underfunded. That is my beef, if this is just to get her way, some poor child is suffering longer in an abusive home.
      i hope they can all work this out, and they can make it through this. I hope they get into counseling soon, I would hate for their relationship to become broken beyond repair.
    " It took CPS a week to check on the household.  I am so upset, because, for a real emergency, that is too long to inspect a living situation."

    It just sounded like you were blaming CPS
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  • I guess my mind was just moving faster than I was typing.  My niece explained herself.  She wanted to emancipate herself and live with her friend, and she knew she needed a reason to emancipate herself. My sister had to remove my younger niece and nephews clothes to show the inspector there were no bruises. I am not blaming the inspector, she was just doing her job. And it protects millions of children who are being abused. 
       But if you want to move out with your friend, why make up claims that your father repeatedly beats you. There are other children in the house, her story could have sent my other niece and nephew into emergency foster care. Apparently her story was pretty fabricated and she said she didn't think it would go this far. The social worker didn't believe my niece, but had to check on the house, just the same. I am so heartbroken over this.
  • I guess my mind was just moving faster than I was typing.  My niece explained herself.  She wanted to emancipate herself and live with her friend, and she knew she needed a reason to emancipate herself. My sister had to remove my younger niece and nephews clothes to show the inspector there were no bruises. I am not blaming the inspector, she was just doing her job. And it protects millions of children who are being abused. 
       But if you want to move out with your friend, why make up claims that your father repeatedly beats you. There are other children in the house, her story could have sent my other niece and nephew into emergency foster care. Apparently her story was pretty fabricated and she said she didn't think it would go this far. The social worker didn't believe my niece, but had to check on the house, just the same. I am so heartbroken over this.
    Heartbroken seems maybe a bit strong. 

    I understand being disappointed, sad and upset over the situation. But she's 17. She literally doesn't have the ability to fully understand consequences and long term anything yet. CPS isn't going to remove kids from a non abusive household.

    I think you should encourage your niece to go to some kind of counselling. Talking to a neutral adult could be a big benefit for her.
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  • I am hoping they all go to counseling.  I am hoping this is just a phase with her.  I am hoping that she knows this affected more than just her.  And I hope she knows how much her dad still loves her, as do all of us.  We are just very confused.
  • I think you need to back way off this. She has a father. She has a mother. She has a soon to be step-mother. So this isn't about you or your heartbreak or your feelings at all.

    I'm not particularly confused- sounds like neither of her parents is around all that much , her dad grounded her and then hit her, she's spending most of her time with dad's girlfriend and apparently her sister, and she's decided she'd rather live with a friend than where she is now. Since she's immature like any other 17 year old she chose a stupid way of dealing with her feelings.

    Sure , sounds like they all could use some help but your woe-is-youth attitude isn't going to do anyone any good.
  • Definitely sounds to me like she called CPS to get the message through to her father that it's not OK to hit her, which she would be right about. Perhaps it was an improper use of CPS, but she was looking out for herself, as she should as a near-adult. Her problems are definitely not indicative of young people overall though.

    I would stay out of it unless she specifically comes to you for help. You can't tell him how to parent, her how to be an adult, or CPS how to counsel. I'm sorry it's a crappy situation for you.

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  • I am hoping they all go to counseling.  I am hoping this is just a phase with her.  I am hoping that she knows this affected more than just her.  And I hope she knows how much her dad still loves her, as do all of us.  We are just very confused.
    Holy moly.  Victim blaming much?  You don't know the situation.  Hitting is wrong IMO, and he touched her fucking ass.  I don't care what she said, he should not be able to lay a hand on her.  I hope she can get out on her own and stop being judged by assholes that think they know everything.
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  • I agree, hitting at 17 is wrong and inappropriate. . I dislike hitting, in general, unless a young child is about to run into the street or touch an electrical outlet, then I might spank their hand (I don't have kids, so I don't know how I will handle that, yet. If I read statistics that said to spank a kid's hand was ineffective or harmful, I would not do that). For older children, removing privileges is much more effective. While spanking her wasn't right, I don't think it was abusive. At 17, she should be learning the real consequences of her actions, because someday she will be living on her own.  No police officer is going to spank her if she is pulled over for speeding.  Her boss won't spank her for coming in late. Spanking is something that I am against because it teaches kids nothing. Communicating is better as well as losing privileges. It is the consequence they will, most likely, face when they move out, and mess up. 
      She was given one spank on the butt, however, she had told the social worker that he has punched her and hit her across the face, there is no food in the house, and she doesn't have anywhere to sleep.  She admitted to the social worker that those things never happened, and she said she just wanted to move in with her friend and thought this would emancipate herself. She said she didn't think it would go this far, she would just be free to move out, and her friend told her it was the only way.  . That is what I am so disappointed about. That she was willing to say anything to get him in trouble. The social worker could tell from my nieces story that almost all of what she was told was grossly fabricated or untrue, as well as the inspection on the home.
       I am not the type of person who blames victims, I just knew she was lying. She has been doing it frequently. I know you think I was quick to judge her, but she has done this before, to her mother, her father (twice), and to my sister. Three times CPS was called, but most times she pretends to move in with the other parent to make her parents scared to ground her.
       It isn't my place to say anything, I understand that. I am just venting.  Apparently she had planned this for a while,  relatives told her that it was the wrong way to move out.  Her father was told by his sister and brother that she had been planning to do this for months, I don't know why they hadn't said anything sooner.  They said they didn't think she would do it.
       I hope my brother in law learns it is totally not appropriate to spank a child at 17. He needs to find more effective methods of punishment if she is going to continue to live there. I am hoping that she doesn't move out.  I know it might be easier if she hates living there, I just know if she lives with this girl, she will never get her high school degree. While she has said  things that weren't true, I still want the best for her, and I want her to have a future.  I guess this is so upsetting to me because this is the path my youngest sister took.
  • You know what makes people seem like liars? Telling one story, and then when they get called out on it, adding more and more elaborate detail to prove they were right.

    And you have NO CLUE the her living with a friend will mean she NEVER gets a high school degree. Actually none. She might not do it right now, but it's not like if you don't finish by 18 you never can.
  • larrygaga said:
    Spanking at 17 kind of is creepy and weird and way over the line
    Spanking at 17 is assault.
  • OP, I think you just want everything to be okay for your family, but you need to realize now that this isn't any ounce of your business. Also by your posts, you're bias towards the parents, so I think you just need to sit this one out. 
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