Salary talk

peachy13

Why do people think it's okay to tell everyone how much money they make? I have a handful of friends and acquaintances who see nothing wrong with talking about salaries, and it makes me think that it's just how you're raised. Maybe no one ever told them it was rude?

Friend: I got a new job!

Me: Oh wow that's awesome, congrats!

Friend: I'm not sure when the start date is but my starting salary will be $xx a year! Plus awesome benefits!

Me: Oh, nice.

Friend: And then when I am there for a few months I will try to negotiate my salary for a little higher. Someone I know who works there has been there for two years and now makes $xx a year.

Me: (nodding) Cool.

Please don't do this to people. You're being a jackass and making everyone uncomfortable.

holyguacamole79

My dad told me growing up - "your salary is a private business arrangement between you & your boss.  Nobody else should know that information."

southernbelle0915

What I find rude is ASKING what someone makes. Like:

Friend: I got a new job

Other Friend: So cool! How much do you make?

*crickets*

I don't have a problem with people offering the information, though. No matter what it is, I'm like, "Ok, are you pleased with that, or what?" If it's someone I don't know, I find it socially odd, but whatever.

novella1186

Salaries are like butts. We all have one, but no one else needs to see/know about yours. So ssshhh! 

Maggie0829

southernbelle0915 said:

What I find rude is ASKING what someone makes. Like:

Friend: I got a new job

Other Friend: So cool! How much do you make?

*crickets*

I don't have a problem with people offering the information, though. No matter what it is, I'm like, "Ok, are you pleased with that, or what?" If it's someone I don't know, I find it socially odd, but whatever.

This.  If someone offers up the information then whatever.  But what irks me is when someone out right asks.  That is rude.  Like, why do you want to know?

kvruns

I definitely don't think you should ask anyone.  If someone brings it up and isn't bragging about it, like just a matter of fact thing, then it doesn't bother me.  I have a friend that brings hers up, and it isn't bragging because I make more than her, she just is open about things like that (rent/housing cost, how much things cost, etc).  I personally don't go around sharing but if someone else want to that's ok.

RebeccaFlower

My parents taught me to never discuss money with anyone. They didn't even discuss us about it until I filled out the FAFSA. H's parents were more open, but it still rubs me the wrong way when he shares details. I choose not to. I would never dream of telling someone what we make and I absolutely can not fucking stand when people make comments like they know what our finances look like. 

climbingsingle

I hate when people try to work in how much they make. They're usually just trying to brag. Keep it to yourself! 

theartistformerlyknownas

Yeah unless you're asking me if an offered salary sounds in line with what you should be making in a given industry/experience level, I don't want to know what you make. And don't ask me.

daria24

Meh, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, offering that info just sounds like boasting. On another hand, I think people are way too secretive, to their detriment, about what they make with their coworkers/people in the same industry.

Case in point, the editors in my industry formed a website where they have complete transparency-they post what rates they are offered for each show, each company, the hours, etc. Because they now share that information, it's made the playing field a lot more fair and it's forced companies to stop being cheap assholes. It's also helped female editors get equal pay. 

People in my position however don't have that transparency. A friend of mine was offered my exact same position on the same show for $500 less per week than what I make. I laughed when he told me the number, and told him he was getting hosed. The only way you find out that information though is to ask people. 

KatieinBkln

daria24 said:

Meh, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, offering that info just sounds like boasting. On another hand, I think people are way too secretive, to their detriment, about what they make with their coworkers/people in the same industry.

Case in point, the editors in my industry formed a website where they have complete transparency-they post what rates they are offered for each show, each company, the hours, etc. Because they now share that information, it's made the playing field a lot more fair and it's forced companies to stop being cheap assholes. It's also helped female editors get equal pay. 

People in my position however don't have that transparency. A friend of mine was offered my exact same position on the same show for $500 less per week than what I make. I laughed when he told me the number, and told him he was getting hosed. The only way you find out that information though is to ask people. 

This stuff is why I think sites like Glassdoor are so valuable. You can get a sense of what's normal for a company/industry without having to have that conversation. I do think that if you're discussing it with a VERY close friend, that's a bit different, but I'd rather never find out after the fact that I made someone uncomfortable by bringing up money.

Jells2dot0

My SIL pulls this shit. Every year, she says "I got a $x.xx per hour raise and now I make $n.nn!!" I think she does it to try and bait DH and I because she is the jealous type and always making snide remarks about how well we live. She's even made comments that I can't possibly be as smart as my DH or make as much. She is just ignorant. What she does for a living and what we do for a living are VASTLY different. So, you can't even compare.  I'll never divulge any info to her because I believe it will cause a total shitstorm. I just congratulate her on her raise and bean dip.

JCbride2015

KatieinBkln said:

daria24 said:

Meh, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, offering that info just sounds like boasting. On another hand, I think people are way too secretive, to their detriment, about what they make with their coworkers/people in the same industry.

Case in point, the editors in my industry formed a website where they have complete transparency-they post what rates they are offered for each show, each company, the hours, etc. Because they now share that information, it's made the playing field a lot more fair and it's forced companies to stop being cheap assholes. It's also helped female editors get equal pay. 

People in my position however don't have that transparency. A friend of mine was offered my exact same position on the same show for $500 less per week than what I make. I laughed when he told me the number, and told him he was getting hosed. The only way you find out that information though is to ask people. 

This stuff is why I think sites like Glassdoor are so valuable. You can get a sense of what's normal for a company/industry without having to have that conversation. I do think that if you're discussing it with a VERY close friend, that's a bit different, but I'd rather never find out after the fact that I made someone uncomfortable by bringing up money.

All of this.  Transparency is actually really important, especially within the same industry.  I'm lucky in that Biglaw firms all pay the same starting rate to their associates, lockstep raises, etc.  Everyone makes the same amount based on your seniority, although bonuses vary with your performance.  It eliminates a lot of pay discrimination, I think.  And takes the whole awkward negotiation thing off the table.

Obviously this won't work for every industry and there are obvious downsides if you're really outperforming someone else but you're stuck in the lockstep salary.  But transparency is the only way to know whether you're really making a market salary or not.  This is especially important for women, because it's just fact that we will probably face pay discrimination at some point.  Even if you don't work in a lockstep salary field, just knowing what others at your level are making will help you stand up for yourself and get what you're worth.

chibiyui

daria24 said:

Meh, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, offering that info just sounds like boasting. On another hand, I think people are way too secretive, to their detriment, about what they make with their coworkers/people in the same industry.

Case in point, the editors in my industry formed a website where they have complete transparency-they post what rates they are offered for each show, each company, the hours, etc. Because they now share that information, it's made the playing field a lot more fair and it's forced companies to stop being cheap assholes. It's also helped female editors get equal pay. 

People in my position however don't have that transparency. A friend of mine was offered my exact same position on the same show for $500 less per week than what I make. I laughed when he told me the number, and told him he was getting hosed. The only way you find out that information though is to ask people. 

I wonder if it's an industry specific thing as well, from what I understand, about how much everyone makes at H's job is fairly well broadcasted, though bonuses are more private. 

I kinda wish our society was a little more transparent about wages, it would cut down on a lot of the wage gap between men and women as well I think.

princessofgenovia

Me and my friends, my close friends, we all know what each other makes. Most of us are just out of college, getting our first real jobs. So it seems to come up as "I got hired at the Xylophone factory and they're paying $38K a year! Plus I get vacation time!", just an excitement about being an OMG real adult with a salary and a job that does not require a uniform or paper hat. 

But I've also had people ask me my salary point blank. Yeah...no. My best friend, my parents, and my FI know what I make. But nosy person I'm FB friends with, you do not get to know. I did have one person ask me because she was being offered a similar job and thought they were low-balling her, so she asked me. But privately and told me if I didn't want to tell her that was fine, but she was getting offered $XX amount and wanted to know if that was near what I was getting. It wasn't. She was being crazy low-balled. And I told her what I started at so she's have a guideline.

lovegood90

Ugh, I agree, salary talk makes me soo uncomfortable! I was raised with the attitude of "it's crass to talk about money," and sorry but I think in a lot of situations it just is.

My friends and I always talk/ask about what people pay in rent, but that's because I live in a bigger city that is notoriously expensive so it's more of a conversation topic than being nosy, if that makes sense. And we'd never ask a stranger/acquaintance about that stuff.

I find it so hard to divert the subject when I've been asked about this in the past, I don't get how people think it's appropriate?

The only people who know my salary are my BF and my dad. I haven't even told my mom because she's nosy and can't keep quiet about anything. (She'd also use it against me to guilt me about things-"why can't you spend the money to come visit me, I know what you make," "why are you wasting your money on taking trips," etc)

thisismynickname2

To piggyback on what Daria said, while I definitely don't discuss salary I agree it's been to our detriment.  I've read many articles on how females are less likely to negotiate than men, apply for jobs where we don't meet every published requirement, etc.  Until now, I've only been promoted (never taken a lateral move), so I've always taken what was offered without negotiation, figuring that, as a promotion, clearly I don't have the experience yet to ask for more.

In fact, this is the first year where I advocated for a more significant raise than what's normally given at annual review time, because I'm taking on things outside my JD and I earned another degree. It remains to be seen if my boss's proposal for my raise will be accepted by higher leadership. 

However, my beef with talking salary in public is that it is very individualized. I have witnessed people throw a fuss when finding out someone makes more, and usually the person throwing a fuss is someone with less experience or skills or other qualities than the person who earns more. Not to mention society places different monetary value on different jobs. I saw a guy at my work argue with HR publicly because his small annual raise was completely negated and then some by the rising cost of our health care. He assumed he should just make more to offset the increased health care costs. Ugh.  

Plus! Just because you make x doesn't mean you take home x or don't have other commitments. Between DH and I we have a healthy household income and no kids, but student loans are hefty too.  Socially there's no point discussing income. 

l9i

princessofgenovia said:

Me and my friends, my close friends, we all know what each other makes. Most of us are just out of college, getting our first real jobs. So it seems to come up as "I got hired at the Xylophone factory and they're paying $38K a year! Plus I get vacation time!", just an excitement about being an OMG real adult with a salary and a job that does not require a uniform or paper hat. 

But I've also had people ask me my salary point blank. Yeah...no. My best friend, my parents, and my FI know what I make. But nosy person I'm FB friends with, you do not get to know. I did have one person ask me because she was being offered a similar job and thought they were low-balling her, so she asked me. But privately and told me if I didn't want to tell her that was fine, but she was getting offered $XX amount and wanted to know if that was near what I was getting. It wasn't. She was being crazy low-balled. And I told her what I started at so she's have a guideline.

This, My parents know what I was hired in at and H knows.  I have a friend who is looking for jobs in the industry and asked, he also prefaced with "If you don't want to tell me that's fine" and it was private and in context of our conversation.  I wasn't offended and told him and since he interned at the same location he had a general idea of what you might make fulltime. 

As for transparency I know my company has salaries for different areas and that's what you get starting off, no negotiating unless you're coming in with some legit experience under your belt.  So I know that starting off I got the exact same off as a few friends who also got hired in the same company and department.  The differences come when you get bonuses and raises based on performance.

I wouldn't go around announcing that information, it just don't feel comfortable because it makes me feel as if I'm bragging.  If someone else does I may or may not side eye it depending on the situation.

lc07

I never ask or discuss finances with people who are not in my industry. Within my industry it comes up quite a bit and I think it's beneficial for those of us who openly discuss it. I don't ever ask someone what their take home pay is, but since I am a business owner it's helpful for me to discuss prices, service costs, employee costs, contractor costs etc. with others in my industry. 

Maggie0829

thisismynickname said:

To piggyback on what Daria said, while I definitely don't discuss salary I agree it's been to our detriment.  I've read many articles on how females are less likely to negotiate than men, apply for jobs where we don't meet every published requirement, etc.  Until now, I've only been promoted (never taken a lateral move), so I've always taken what was offered without negotiation, figuring that, as a promotion, clearly I don't have the experience yet to ask for more.

In fact, this is the first year where I advocated for a more significant raise than what's normally given at annual review time, because I'm taking on things outside my JD and I earned another degree. It remains to be seen if my boss's proposal for my raise will be accepted by higher leadership. 

However, my beef with talking salary in public is that it is very individualized. I have witnessed people throw a fuss when finding out someone makes more, and usually the person throwing a fuss is someone with less experience or skills or other qualities than the person who earns more. Not to mention society places different monetary value on different jobs. I saw a guy at my work argue with HR publicly because his small annual raise was completely negated and then some by the rising cost of our health care. He assumed he should just make more to offset the increased health care costs. Ugh.  

Plus! Just because you make x doesn't mean you take home x or don't have other commitments. Between DH and I we have a healthy household income and no kids, but student loans are hefty too.  Socially there's no point discussing income. 

The bolded is pretty much the reason I don't care if people talk about their salary.  To me a total salary does nothing to show me how well off or how hard up you are.  You could make a boat load and be in debt up to your eye balls or you could make what some may see as very little but be living the high life because you have zero debt.  In the end it is just a number.

loveislouder

I'm on the fence. I've been that person that asks what you're making... but I only asked my little brother and sister because they had just gotten their first jobs and the place was a little sketch and I wanted to make sure they were getting paid at LEAST minimum wage. I could have phrased it differently, but I didn't.

FI's brothers, who are all college graduates, were making fun of him for having such a crappy job (hes a manager at a fast food restaurant) and they were like "I HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR MINIMUM WAGE HAHAHAHA" He knocked them flat on their asses when he told them what he makes..

ETA: I worded it funny the first time.

hellohkb

I have a group of friends who always talk about salaries. I find it kind of odd. I had a friend straight up ask FH what his new salary was when he moved to his new job. So rude.

vikinganna87

I find it generally tacky to talk about how much you make, especially with friends and family.  But just because I would never mention it, doesn't mean it bothers me when others talk about it. It's important to celebrate each others accomplishments, like a raise or promotion, and if someone wants to volunteer how much it's for, we shouldn't begrudge them.     

It is important to get a sense of your market value, whether it's from Glassdoor or other people in similar positions.  Even if it's uncomfortable talking about it I think it's good to know what other people at your company doing the same thing are making.  You may not be able to negotiate a raise at your current company, but at least you can start negotiating higher for your next job. 

But then, as my finance professor always said, it's not how much you make it's how much you save.

wandajune6

I'm the daughter of the Compensation lady from from a big company. I don't talk numbers.

That said, I think numbers can be misleading. My last job had a crappy salary but I had 6 weeks of vacation (that you could get paid out at the end of the year), 15 holidays, free health insurance, a crazy 401K plan, annual bonuses, and a ridiculous number of amazing benefits. In the end, I was doing a lot better than some of my friends who were likely earning a lot more than me.

I also agree with the PPs about other financial factors. I make a lot more than DH. I also have student loans and other financial liabilities that basically make up the difference. We're in oddly similar financial positions.

ohannabelle

I follow my Grandmas's advice on this one. Don't discuss money socially. You'll either sound like you're bragging or begging.

When people ask me directly (rude!) I generally give a non answer answer. "Enough to pay my bus fare," or "Nothing close to my actual weight in gold," or whatever. If people are pushy, I ask if they're going into the accounting business, because why else would they want to know.

lyndausvi

for me it's the who and what context.

I know this couple who all they talk about is money.  They are all like " I only spent $15k on this Rolex.  What a deal".    Husband just got a 50K raise."     I pretty much side-eye everything out of their mouths.

Other times I feel it can be an appropriate conservation with some people.   If someone from another boat asked how much we got paid I was happy to tell them so they can compare what their companies were paying.    If someone from another department at the company asked I would be vague because we got paid way better than the other departments at the resort.  General the people who asked were asking to be nosy not using it to compare.

Money talk with friends and family are not often, but do happen from time to time.  Some people I do not mind the conversation.  Others they are very uncomfortable and avoided.

Just depends on the who, why and what context it's being asked.

Bubblegum5586

I have a few close friends that we talk about our salaries (and these are separate friends with separate discussions... not one big group talk). These friends have been my friends for a very long time so it all started back during highschool/college and what we made hourly! And we mostly share as happy news and are happy for each other when each of us make a financial step forward.

ETA - From the title I thought you were going to be asking what others made! I was like "wow thats ballsy!"

KatieinBkln

wandajune6 said:

I'm the daughter of the Compensation lady from from a big company. I don't talk numbers.

That said, I think numbers can be misleading. My last job had a crappy salary but I had 6 weeks of vacation (that you could get paid out at the end of the year), 15 holidays, free health insurance, a crazy 401K plan, annual bonuses, and a ridiculous number of amazing benefits. In the end, I was doing a lot better than some of my friends who were likely earning a lot more than me.

I also agree with the PPs about other financial factors. I make a lot more than DH. I also have student loans and other financial liabilities that basically make up the difference. We're in oddly similar financial positions.

This, and also the fact that everything is relative. The cost of living in NYC is so high that even if I were inclined to share my salary with a person from my home state, I would avoid doing so because the average person doesn't realize how far money goes here (i.e., not very) so what might sound pretty darn decent to someone living on less in a "cheaper" place actually isn't. What people are actually curious about is how you live, I think. Pure numbers can't really tell that whole story.

Cookie Pusher

wandajune6 said:

I'm the daughter of the Compensation lady from from a big company. I don't talk numbers.

That said, I think numbers can be misleading. My last job had a crappy salary but I had 6 weeks of vacation (that you could get paid out at the end of the year), 15 holidays, free health insurance, a crazy 401K plan, annual bonuses, and a ridiculous number of amazing benefits. In the end, I was doing a lot better than some of my friends who were likely earning a lot more than me.

I also agree with the PPs about other financial factors. I make a lot more than DH. I also have student loans and other financial liabilities that basically make up the difference. We're in oddly similar financial positions.

I'm in a similar situation. The dollar amount attached to my salary is on the lower end but my benefits are awesome (company-paid pension, 8% retirement fund match, healthy PTO accounts, good work-life balance, etc.). DH makes more than twice my salary and has okay benefits, but he is shit with money so I can stretch my lower salary much further than he can.

We live in a high COL area, and even though our combined income is significant, it doesn't afford us the luxury of a house yet. Even with 20% down, the mortgage for the average starter home here that is roughly the same size as our apartment would be at least twice what we pay for rent!

ChemFanatic25

I'm guilty of this :-/ you can all yell at me. My coworkers and I almost regularly would gripe on a daily basis about what we made (our company is not known for how "well" it pays its employees) so I kind of had an idea of what everyone made in my group. 

My SO knows how much I make and the reason he does is because we had a huge discussion about how I felt under appreciated at my company and my salary was one of my examples. 

BUT I have learned and avoid talking about salary now. Some of my friends ask what I make and I just say "I make enough to pay the bills". 

abbyj700

lyndausvi said:

for me it's the who and what context.

I know this couple who all they talk about is money.  They are all like " I only spent $15k on this Rolex.  What a deal".    Husband just got a 50K raise."     I pretty much side-eye everything out of their mouths.

Other times I feel it can be an appropriate conservation with some people.   If someone from another boat asked how much we got paid I was happy to tell them so they can compare what their companies were paying.    If someone from another department at the company asked I would be vague because we got paid way better than the other departments at the resort.  General the people who asked were asking to be nosy not using it to compare.

Money talk with friends and family are not often, but do happen from time to time.  Some people I do not mind the conversation.  Others they are very uncomfortable and avoided.

Just depends on the who, why and what context it's being asked.

This. 

Sometimes with some people I feel completely comfortable discussing money.

Two of our best friends are getting married next fall. The future bride has had conversations with me about our wedding budget, what we spent on things, etc - always prefacing with comments to make sure I know I don't have to discuss anything I don't want to. She's a close friend, and I know she's asking for reference purposes - so I'm happy to respond.

Some folks we're friends with know I've got more raises this year than I did total in the 6 years with my last company. Most of this conversation isn't necessarily dollar based - but in discussions of being appreciated at my new company and that we are dong well enough to go certain places we are invited, to travel more, and when we offer to host certain evenings of friends. (ie, if we offer to host - it's nice when you say "hey can I pitch in for XYZ"- but we REALLY don't need you to so don't feel obligated to even offer.