Catholic and Civil Ceremony - Same Day?

bridetobe9995

Hi, all! My fiance and I are running into some wedding planning troubles.  He is from a devoutly Catholic family.  I was baptized Catholic, but not raised Catholic. We do not consistently go to mass.  However, his family has decided that if we do not get married in the Catholic Church, they will not be attending the wedding.  We already have the plans set to have the ceremony and reception all at the same venue.

So my question is this - Is it heard of for a Catholic Church to do a private ceremony for just me, my fiance and his parents the morning of our wedding day? Then maybe they would feel more comfortable attending our secular ceremony (the ceremony we truly want)? 

Thank you all for your input during this very stressful time in our wedding planning!

holyguacamole79

katietroyer said:

Hi, all! My fiance and I are running into some wedding planning troubles.  He is from a devoutly Catholic family.  I was baptized Catholic, but not raised Catholic. We do not consistently go to mass.  However, his family has decided that if we do not get married in the Catholic Church, they will not be attending the wedding.  We already have the plans set to have the ceremony and reception all at the same venue.

So my question is this - Is it heard of for a Catholic Church to do a private ceremony for just me, my fiance and his parents the morning of our wedding day? Then maybe they would feel more comfortable attending our secular ceremony (the ceremony we truly want)? 

Thank you all for your input during this very stressful time in our wedding planning!

Don't do this. First off, the decision to be married in the Catholic church needs to bend YOUR decision - this is not something you do to appease anyone else. If his parents won't come, let them know that you will miss them. But I can all but guarantee you that the priest / deacon will not be in board with a private wedding just to appease his parents and (especially since you have no desire for a Catholic wedding and marriage).

redoryx

katietroyer said:

Hi, all! My fiance and I are running into some wedding planning troubles.  He is from a devoutly Catholic family.  I was baptized Catholic, but not raised Catholic. We do not consistently go to mass.  However, his family has decided that if we do not get married in the Catholic Church, they will not be attending the wedding.  We already have the plans set to have the ceremony and reception all at the same venue.

So my question is this - Is it heard of for a Catholic Church to do a private ceremony for just me, my fiance and his parents the morning of our wedding day? Then maybe they would feel more comfortable attending our secular ceremony (the ceremony we truly want)? 

Thank you all for your input during this very stressful time in our wedding planning!

If the secular ceremony is the one you truly want, that's the one you need to have. If they can't attend, that's unfortunate, but this is YOUR wedding. If you're not a regularly practicing Catholic it is disingenuous to get married that way (and because that would come first that would be your actual wedding ceremony -- the second would only be for show) just to appease his parents.

LondonLisa

I would be more concerned with this emotional blackmail ultimatum. What happens when you have kids? "If you don't baptise them in our church we won't acknowledge them"

Have the wedding you want, but more importantly, this is THE defining moment of your relationship going forward that sets the tone for your marriage. Fi needs to say "Well, I think that is silly you will skip your son's wedding over this, but you will be missed." He needs to call their bluff, or else they will forever be blackmailing you in the relationship.

Would you get married in a Jewish or Sikh ceremony because his family insisted even though neither of you are that religion? See how silly that sounds...

southernbelle0915

Your FI's family sounds extremely manipulative. I'm sorry you're dealing with that. What a terrible ultimatum to give your child. Just awful. Personally, I would call their bluff, but I'm not you and I'm not Catholic. 

Talk to your priest. I guarantee they will not be on board with this. And I really don't think your FI's family would be on board either. Plus, your guests would be extremely offended if they found out you actually got married earlier in the day and they were witnessing a fake re-do. 

I think you need to do some soul searching. If you and your FI do not want to get married in the Catholic Church, now is the time to stand up to FI's family. They don't own you and if they think they can manipulate your MARRIAGE, what else will they try to manipulate. Get married in the Church because YOU want to. Or don't. And make it clear to them, whatever you decide, that you're doing it because it's what YOU want for YOUR marriage.

KatWAG

bridetobe9995 said:

Hi, all! My fiance and I are running into some wedding planning troubles.  He is from a devoutly Catholic family.  I was baptized Catholic, but not raised Catholic. We do not consistently go to mass.  However, his family has decided that if we do not get married in the Catholic Church, they will not be attending the wedding.  We already have the plans set to have the ceremony and reception all at the same venue.

So my question is this - Is it heard of for a Catholic Church to do a private ceremony for just me, my fiance and his parents the morning of our wedding day? Then maybe they would feel more comfortable attending our secular ceremony (the ceremony we truly want)? 

Thank you all for your input during this very stressful time in our wedding planning!

I think you call their bluff. It is your wedding and your beliefs. Talk to your fi and figure out he you two are comfortable with and then have that type of ceremony.

Please dont start off the first moments of your marraige by caving to emotional blackmail.

Maggie0829

I would call their bluff.  If you are not practicing Catholics then getting married in the Catholic church only to appease his family is kind of shitty.  H and I didn't get married in the church because we thought it would have been hypocritical of us since we don't go to mass at all and do not practice.  If his or my family said that they only way they would come was if we got married in a church then I would have said "sorry that you will miss it."

What they are doing to you is beyond rude.  If you give in to this then you will open the flood gates of them giving you ultimatiums.

bridetobe9995

Thank you all show much for your honest answers. I have shared these with my fiance.. it is so great to hear thoughts from the unbiased!! 

holyguacamole79

Fwiw, the family may not be emotionally blackmailing him.  Catholic teaching says that for a faithful Catholic to attend a wedding of a Catholic who has opted to marry outside of the Church is an occasion of scandal since it is an implicit "endorsement" of that marriage / wedding that is not sacramental.  It's possible that they are observing this teaching.  

I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying that the couple should marry in the Church so his family can be there.  Also FWIW, I was advised not to attend my brother's wedding for this very reason (and I did anyway).

Good luck, @bridetobe9995.

daria24

Your FI's family are being shitty not only to you, but to their own faith. I never understand how, as a devout person, you would push someone to fake their way through a very sacred act. If their religion means that much to them, why would they want to sit through a Catholic wedding knowing the whole time that you, as a couple, didn't mean what you are saying?

I say this as an ex-Catholic, married to an ex-Catholic, whose very Catholic families did a lot of sighing about our civil wedding. When the day came, everyone attended, including H's cousin who is a priest, and gave us many compliments about our ceremony.

lyndausvi

bridetobe9995 said:

Hi, all! My fiance and I are running into some wedding planning troubles.  He is from a devoutly Catholic family.  I was baptized Catholic, but not raised Catholic. We do not consistently go to mass.  However, his family has decided that if we do not get married in the Catholic Church, they will not be attending the wedding.  We already have the plans set to have the ceremony and reception all at the same venue.

So my question is this - Is it heard of for a Catholic Church to do a private ceremony for just me, my fiance and his parents the morning of our wedding day? Then maybe they would feel more comfortable attending our secular ceremony (the ceremony we truly want)? 

Thank you all for your input during this very stressful time in our wedding planning!

DH and I were both raised Catholic.  We do not practice so we opted not to get married in the church. Both our parents were disappointed, almost upset, but not to the point of boycotting the wedding.     I'm sorry they are putting you in that position.

To the bold - you say you do not consistently go, which means you do go to church.  You might want to do a little sole searching.  Do you plan to raise your kids Catholic?  Baptize them?   Forget about they parents here, these are things you need to think.  If the answer is yes, then you should think about getting married in the church. 

OliveOilsMom

lyndausvi said:

bridetobe9995 said:

Hi, all! My fiance and I are running into some wedding planning troubles.  He is from a devoutly Catholic family.  I was baptized Catholic, but not raised Catholic. We do not consistently go to mass.  However, his family has decided that if we do not get married in the Catholic Church, they will not be attending the wedding.  We already have the plans set to have the ceremony and reception all at the same venue.

So my question is this - Is it heard of for a Catholic Church to do a private ceremony for just me, my fiance and his parents the morning of our wedding day? Then maybe they would feel more comfortable attending our secular ceremony (the ceremony we truly want)? 

Thank you all for your input during this very stressful time in our wedding planning!

DH and I were both raised Catholic.  We do not practice so we opted not to get married in the church. Both our parents were disappointed, almost upset, but not to the point of boycotting the wedding.     I'm sorry they are putting you in that position.

To the bold - you say you do not consistently go, which means you do go to church.  You might want to do a little sole searching.  Do you plan to raise your kids Catholic?  Baptize them?   Forget about they parents here, these are things you need to think.  If the answer is yes, then you should think about getting married in the church. 

Ditto Lynda.  Know that if you forgoe the Catholic wedding, you will not be allowed to received Communion any further.  You and FI need to do your soul searching to see if that is what you truly want.  If neither of you feel you want to stay a practicing Catholic, then stick with your civil wedding plans.  But if you think that you (either of you) still want to keep your current relationship with the Catholic Church as it is now, then consider having the Catholic wedding.  This is only a decision that you and FI can make together, do not let FILs decide this for you.

Jen4948

The real issue here seems to me to be your FILs' trying to decide for you what kind of wedding you should have by threatening not to attend any wedding that doesn't take place in the Catholic church.

Of course, if communion and the other sacraments and doctrine of the Catholic church are important to you, then you should marry in the church.  But if you are not a believer and communion just isn't that important to you, they shouldn't be trying to force you to have such a wedding even if their faith insists that they can't attend weddings anywhere else.  If they want you to respect their beliefs, they should be giving you and your FI reciprocal respect for yours-and that means attending your wedding, whatever you decide to do, without issuing ultimatums or threatening boycotts. 

So I think you and your FI need to decide between you how important it is to have the wedding either in the church or elsewhere as well as how involved you want his parents to be in your lives.  Because if you choose not to baptize your children Catholic or otherwise not do whatever they want, it's clear that they're not above using emotional blackmail to get their way.

CMGragain

You may find that your feelings about your religion will change in the future.  If you plan on having children, this can be very important.  You do realize that if you are not married in the Catholic church, you will not be able to take Communion ever again?  Do you plan to raise your children as Catholics?  How will you feel at their first communion if you cannot partake, and how will you explain it to them?

Only you can answer these questions. 

A civil ceremony following a Catholic Church ceremony would be very offensive to many people.  Not only is it a fake wedding ceremony, since you will already be married, but Catholic doctrine prohobits it.

holyguacamole79

CMGragain said:

You may find that your feelings about your religion will change in the future.  If you plan on having children, this can be very important.  You do realize that if you are not married in the Catholic church, you will not be able to take Communion ever again?  Do you plan to raise your children as Catholics?  How will you feel at their first communion if you cannot partake, and how will you explain it to them?

Only you can answer these questions. 

A civik ceremony following a Catholic Church ceremony would be very offensive to many people.  Not only is it a fake wedding ceremony, since you will already be married, but Catholic doctrine prohobits it.

I don't believe this is accurate.  

lyndausvi

holyguacamole79 said:

CMGragain said:

You may find that your feelings about your religion will change in the future.  If you plan on having children, this can be very important.  You do realize that if you are not married in the Catholic church, you will not be able to take Communion ever again?  Do you plan to raise your children as Catholics?  How will you feel at their first communion if you cannot partake, and how will you explain it to them?

Only you can answer these questions. 

A civik ceremony following a Catholic Church ceremony would be very offensive to many people.  Not only is it a fake wedding ceremony, since you will already be married, but Catholic doctrine prohobits it.

I don't believe this is accurate.  

In Austria you are required to have a civil ceremony, even if you have a religious one.  So I'm not sure how accurate the statement is either when some countries require civil ceremonies by law. 

In the states doing the a Catholic ceremony first would make the union legally binding, so the civil ceremony wouldn't be a civil ceremony.  It would just be a vow renewal. 

CMGragain

In countries where the civil ceremony is required, the Catholic Church allows both.  Most of Europe is like this.  In the USA, where priests are legally allowed to officiate and certify the marriage license, the Catholic Church does not allow participation in an alternate wedding service that is not Sacramental.  I think you will find that I am correct about this.
The Catholic Church regard their marriage ceremony to be a Sacrament.  It may only be held outside of a church under very, very unusual circumstances, and that must be approved by the bishop.  To have a second non-religious ceremony is demeaning to the religious one, as well as being a fake ceremony, since the couple is already married.  Terrible idea!  OP, ask your priest what he thinks!

holyguacamole79

CMGragain said:

In countries where the civil ceremony is required, the Catholic Church allows both.  Most of Europe is like this.  In the USA, where priests are legally allowed to officiate and certify the marriage license, the Catholic Church does not allow participation in an alternate wedding service that is not Sacramental.  I think you will find that I am correct about this.
The Catholic Church regard their marriage ceremony to be a Sacrament.  It may only be held outside of a church under very, very unusual circumstances, and that must be approved by the bishop.  To have a second non-religious ceremony is demeaning to the religious one, as well as being a fake ceremony, since the couple is already married.  Terrible idea!  OP, ask your priest what he thinks!

Until you can show me a reputable Catholic source that backs this up, I still disagree. IF she has a proper Catholic wedding, whatever they do after that is up to the couple. There is nothing in Church law (to the best of my knowledge) that forbids this. Would the priest / deacon be happy? No. Could it be evidence for an annulment tribunal that the couple didn't regard the sacrament as valid? Perhaps. But I am not aware of anything in Canon Law or the Catechism that states that a couple can't have a second "wedding".

CMGragain

I didn't realize that Catholic Church allowed PPDs.  I'm still guessing that the priest knows nothing about the second ceremony.

holyguacamole79

CMGragain said:

I didn't realize that Catholic Church allowed PPDs.  I'm still guessing that the priest knows nothing about the second ceremony.

I don't think anyone would condone it, but I don't think it is explicitly called out in Church teaching. If a priest / deacon got wind of this, they would be concerned by the reasons for doing so, but it's not like a couple would no longer be in Communion with the Church.

banana468

The important thing is that the secular ceremony will mean nothing. I don't think a priest will perform a ceremony that isn't legally binding.

climbingsingle

Don't let his family force you into a ceremony you don't want! What do you want? What does your FI want? That's what is most important. 

I let my mother guilt and pressure me into a Catholic wedding when I got married in 2004. Still to this day, I wish I hadn't let her talk me into it. I felt like a fraud standing there, just going through the motions. 

And definitely don't have two ceremonies to appease them! 

lyndausvi

CMGragain said:

I didn't realize that Catholic Church allowed PPDs.  I'm still guessing that the priest knows nothing about the second ceremony.

  I'm not sure it's against any Cannon Law, especially if it's after the Catholic one. As a former Catholic it's a huge WTF in my opinion to have a small Catholic ceremony then a larger "civil" ceremony the next day.  That is ass-backwards to me.  The Catholic one should be the bigger more important one.  The US makes it easy for people not to have to have 2, so there  isn't a need for a civil ceremony.    

Those who live in countries that require a civil ceremony do not have large civil ceremonies so they can "be married outside".  They do them because legally speaking they are not married otherwise.  The civil ceremony is normally small and within close proximity of the religious one.

agapecarrie

Canon law: 1127 §3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

holyguacamole79

I didn't know that - thanks, Carrie!

CMGragain

I knew I wasn't crazy!  Just couldn't find it!

holyguacamole79

CMGragain said:

I knew I wasn't crazy!  Just couldn't find it!

I'm sorry I doubted you! I had no idea!

Maggie0829

agapecarrie said:

Canon law: 1127 §3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

But would having a secular ceremony after the religious one really be breaking this law?  According to this law another religious ceremony or celebration is not allowed, but if it were a non-religious ceremony, aka civil ceremony, then would be okay.

Or am I not reading this right?

**Just want to note that I do not support having two ceremonies in one day just to appease your family members, just trying to understand this law**

agapecarrie

Canon law isn't interpreted in every day language, and also-- it crosses over the whole world's legal systems.  Because may countries have separate legal and religious marriages, it can't forbid having a legal ceremony before/after. 

cbus13

Just my 2 cents, but my understanding is in order to be married in a Catholic ceremony the couple must undergo pre-cana, aka marriage prep. My fiance and I are getting married in a full Catholic mass and we went through about 8 months of marriage prep. The very first question the priest asked us was why it was so important to us to be married in the Catholic faith. He even said that many couples feel outside pressure to do so. 

Now I actually really enjoyed the marriage prep because, as opposed to concentrating solely on faith, it was sort of a "pre-marriage bootcamp" where we learned a lot about each other and affirmed our decision to get married. 

But for the situation you describe, I don't see anyway a priest would go for that. 

holyguacamole79

Hey @agapecarrie, one more question.  My parents had their vows renewed with a priest "officiating" when they had their 25th anniversary.  Would that be a violation of this Canon Law?

@HReis13, yep - just about all couples have to go through some sort of marriage prep.  Ours was also a "pre-marriage bootcamp" and we enjoyed ours as well.