Need some more advice

ChemFanatic25

PrettyGirlLost said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

So my sister just contacted me asking that it just be me and my dog that join our family for Christmas. She does not want my SO to join us. She said that he made rude comments to her and her SO when they were over. To be honest, I know my SO and I know my sister and I am actually very offended by her request.

I love my sister but she is an extremely abrasive person. It is why I can only handle her in small doses. If your opinion does not align with hers whatsoever, like it has to be absolutely on par with hers (no differences) she will call you an ignorant fool to your face and not let you defend yourself. Also, my sister can be extremely rude. Her defense that she says it is like it is and people will have to deal. My SO is more than likely responded in kind because he can also be stubborn but he is willing to listen to what you say. (He also can get sarcastic but it is nowhere near what my sister is like.) The thing is, my sister is allowed to say whatever she wants but if anyone speaks "out against her" she will not have any of that and will not listen to them and gets very snippy. 

She said that I had told her "shhh" because of his views differing from hers (which btw she is guessing because she doesn't know his views). I know that if I told her "shhh" it was because I was feeling bolder while being drunk and just wanted her to be quiet. She constantly talks about her stances and you can never get a word in edgewise and she puts herself on a pedestal and I just get really tired of listening to it. Also, just so everyone knows. My mom is gay. My SO's views align with mine which are, "don't care if you're gay, straight, trans, etc. You deserve to be with who you want to be with as long as you are happy." 

I know it sounds biased but I'm not happy about what she said. My beliefs actually align very well with his and I support him in what he says. She said he was insensitive when I was drinking but I did not see it that way at all. I really got out of hand and he is the one who stopped me from feeding my dog cheetos (and I absolutely do not like feeding my dog human food). 

Now I cannot tell her that I actually think that she is a very abrasive, rude, and insensitive person or tell her I don't like how she treats people in general because she will get very angry at me and yell at me and insult me (and it really cuts deep when she does) so I don't know what to say. I'm going to stand by my SO. I know how my sister is and I don't agree with her at all. 

I want to say something along the lines of "If my SO is not invited, then I will not be joining you for Christmas" but I don't want her yelling at me, calling me a hypocrite, and choosing my SO over my family. I also can't tell her how I really feel because then she will also insult me on top of that and probably never talk to me again. What should I say?

I'd probably tell her this, but that's because at this point in my life I don't really care to deal with dysfunctional people if I don't have to, even if they are family.

It sounds to me like you know that your only option in order to keep the peace with your sister is to capitulate to her every whim, opinion, and demand.  Besides being total bullshit- because no one should treat you like she does- it's totally dysfunctional.  It will only enable her bad behavior and it runs the risk of alienating you from your SO.

My suggestion would be to try making peace as opposed to keeping it.  Don't respond to this ridiculous message from your sister- just show up to this holiday event with your SO. . . just like any normalw, rational person who's in a relationship would.  Then if your sister stats in with the histrionics in front of your entire family, gently laugh it off and say, "Oh I'm sorry Sister, I didn't actually think just an outlandish request was serious!"  If she keeps up her lamentations and protests and starts getting ugly with you both, then leave.

Keep doing this until she either stops being such an ass or you decide that you really don't need or want her in your life.

**SIB**

I don't think I'm going to do that. She lives 2.5 hours away and if things go to hell, we'll be 2.5 hours away from home. If she has already stated that she doesn't want him there then I'm not going to incur her wrath by showing up with him uninvited. 

But more, I care about my SO and how he feels. I absolutely do not want to make him uncomfortable. I actually have not let him know what my sister said. She called him a very rude name in her text (which btw the way, I think is hypocritical because she flips out on people when they say the word "b*tch" because it is derogatory towards women, but what she called him is very derogatory towards men.) I will not put my SO in an uncomfortable situation because he does not deserve that.

ChemFanatic25

SBmini said:

I kind of skimmed the post after you started to explain your sister. Because girl, you don't need that kind of negativity in your life. It doesn't even sound like you really want to go- so you shouldn't. And you definitely shouldn't do something passive aggressive like show up with your uninvited SO! 

You should not be afraid to tell your sister you don't approve of her request. How she reacts is her own business. You cannot control her actions- only hers. Set some limits and hold your ground. Tell her you won't be going and that's it. You don't have to explain yourself, you don't have to give her any more information- only that.

Proposed conversation:

You: Hi crazypersonwhoisonlyasister in name, I'm calling to inform you that since SO isn't invited, I will not be coming to Christmas. Thank you for the invitation.

Crazy person: OMG HOW COULD YOU BLAH BLAH BLAH

You: *Click* Or better- I am not going to listen to you yell at me. Goodbye. *click*

Yeah, I'm really not to keen on going, especially with knowing that my mom's dogs are now coming. I'm actually allergic to dogs and I have adjusted to my pup, but having 4 dogs (my sister's SO's dog, my mom's 2 dogs, and my dog) in one house sounds like a recipe for disaster on my body. So her saying that my SO was not invited just put me in the "nope" mood.

Nymeru said:

I would definitely call her bluff and tell her you won't come without SO.  I'd also be talking to your parents and see what they think about the situation.  Do they have underlying concerns that no one's brought to your attention that should maybe be addressed, or is your sister just being her delightful self?  It might be good for your sister to hear from your parents that she needs to stop being a rude bitch.

I would absolutely not just show up with your SO though.  That would be unfair to everyone, especially to him.  He shouldn't have to watch shit go down because of his presence.  That's not something that's easily/ever forgotten.  It's not fair for the pall it would cast on the celebration for everyone else, including you.  Address it head on and deal with the consequences, even if it means that she yells.  If you and your SO end up getting married, you're in store for a lot of future yelling unless you put her in her place now.

My dad is no longer with us but I know he would like my SO. My SO was very polite my mom even though she was pretty rude most of the night to me. He actually said "I like your family but I absolutely do not like the way they treat you." My mom had texted me the last time she met my SO that she liked him.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it is my sister being her usual self. For the most part she looks down on a lot of people and anyone's beliefs who don't align with hers she basically judges and hates right from the beginning. The funny part is that their views are liberal but unless you are not yelling to the high heavens about your support of woman's rights and LGBT rights, you are lacking in her books.

EDIT: Oh, my sister also might have talked to my mom last night because my mom texted me in the evening about family always coming first and how she missed me. This is the same woman who had her girlfriend come over when I was visiting and completely ignored me the two days I was there.

ChemFanatic25

I told me sister that I would not be attending Christmas without my SO. I also corrected her on how she thought my SO doesn't support gay rights and said that was completely wrong. She made a poor assumption on something I said, not anything my SO said. 

So for Christmas, I'll either be spending time at my house (I have a lovely tree I cannot wait to decorate) or with my SO and his family (apparently they have already invited me.)

The holidays are off to a great start :-/ BUT I am going to change that attitude and look forward to spending time with my SO, my pup, and friends. I am going to try really hard not to care what my family says. I know my mom will be contacting me again about family coming first but I will be standing my ground (hopefully, sorry, I can be a wuss).

SBmini

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

ChemFanatic25

SBmini said:

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

That's a good idea actually. I didn't even think of that. If my sister doesn't change her mind I'll contact my mom and take her out to dinner with my SO for Christmas. Then I can give her her gifts and my siblings gifts. I feel really sad that this is how it is but I'm also astounded because I would not have expected this with my SO. I'm in an amazing relationship. It is very healthy and we treat each other so well. So the fact that someone is barring him from the festivities because of an opinion based on unfounded facts just blows my mind. I'd understand if they said "no he hits you, or you're in an unhealthy relationship, we'd rather not have him there" but that wasn't it at all. I'm really really disappointed with my sister.

PrettyGirlLost

SBmini said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

SBmini said:

I kind of skimmed the post after you started to explain your sister. Because girl, you don't need that kind of negativity in your life. It doesn't even sound like you really want to go- so you shouldn't. And you definitely shouldn't do something passive aggressive like show up with your uninvited SO! 

You should not be afraid to tell your sister you don't approve of her request. How she reacts is her own business. You cannot control her actions- only hers. Set some limits and hold your ground. Tell her you won't be going and that's it. You don't have to explain yourself, you don't have to give her any more information- only that.

Proposed conversation:

You: Hi crazypersonwhoisonlyasister in name, I'm calling to inform you that since SO isn't invited, I will not be coming to Christmas. Thank you for the invitation.

Crazy person: OMG HOW COULD YOU BLAH BLAH BLAH

You: *Click* Or better- I am not going to listen to you yell at me. Goodbye. *click*

Theres a difference between not deigning to acknowledge or engage ridiculous behavior and being passive aggressive. I hate passive aggressive shit, so I'd never suggest anyone to engage in those tactics. I'm also not afraid of confrontation either.

Showing up with her SO w/o asking permission from her sister is pretty aggressive. It basically says, "Fuck you and your bullshit."

OP might not be at that level yet, but calling sister in advance is going to be futile, so OP just be prepared to go to SO'S for Christmas as Estee suggested and be prepared to hang up on your sister. . . And not answer if she tries calling you back to yell at you.

I'm sorry she sucks and is making the holidays stressful for you. I'd be happy to call her and introduce her to Jesus on your behalf, lol! ;-)

I think I may have lost you... how is ignoring her sister and not attending not passive aggressive? I honestly feel that the best solution here is to not take bullshit- but to also not lie. Lying doesn't communicate why someone is doing something and it helps perpetuate negative behavior- or worst- lead the person to assume untrue things. Telling the truth sends the message that someone is doing something because of the inappropriate actions of the other person. She doesn't have to explain herself, she doesn't even have to try and keep her sister as a friend. I won't be there for this reason goodbye. Click. Done. 

I didn't suggest she ignore her sister and not go to Christmas or lie. Im not sure where you got lying out of anything i said. . . Im confused. I think you're misunderstanding the phrase "not engage " which is the psychological equivalent of bean dipping, basically. It's not getting sucked into dysfunctional behaviors and drama.


OP I'm sorry your family is acting this way, but it sounds like you will be better off and have a more enjoyable holiday with your SO and his family. Just be careful of your mom guilt tripping you. Sounds lime, as I suspected, your mom is part of the problem. If she tries to talk to you about your sister and Christmas, just tell her that family might be important but so is your SO and your sister made it clear he was not welcome, so by extension neither were you. Tell your mom she's welcome to visit you any time during the holiday and then don't discuss the topic any further.

Jen4948

I would tell your sister that you don't accept invitations that exclude your SO-especially in favor of dogs, so you won't be attending her event.

Then follow through by skipping it and minimizing all contact with her going forward. Her attitude towards you is terrible. My first loyalty would be to your SO. He deserves it-a person like your sister who treats you and him like crap does not.

novella1186

ChemFanatic25 said:

SBmini said:

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

That's a good idea actually. I didn't even think of that. If my sister doesn't change her mind I'll contact my mom and take her out to dinner with my SO for Christmas. Then I can give her her gifts and my siblings gifts. I feel really sad that this is how it is but I'm also astounded because I would not have expected this with my SO. I'm in an amazing relationship. It is very healthy and we treat each other so well. So the fact that someone is barring him from the festivities because of an opinion based on unfounded facts just blows my mind. I'd understand if they said "no he hits you, or you're in an unhealthy relationship, we'd rather not have him there" but that wasn't it at all. I'm really really disappointed with my sister.

Don't worry too much about it. I have a feeling when it gets closer to Christmas, your sister might cave and invite your SO. She's trying to control everything and be a bitch; when she sees that she's not going to get away with it and that you're not buying into it, she might let up a bit, especially if your mom is pressuring her to make sure the whole family is together. 

If your mom keeps harping on you that family comes first, let her know that your SO IS your family. Blood and DNA don't automatically make people family; your real family is made up of the people who love and care about you and who respect you. 

STARMOON44

Advice: stop getting drunk with your family. It makes you more vulnerable to her insults and makes your own recollections unreliable.

SBmini

novella1186 said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

SBmini said:

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

That's a good idea actually. I didn't even think of that. If my sister doesn't change her mind I'll contact my mom and take her out to dinner with my SO for Christmas. Then I can give her her gifts and my siblings gifts. I feel really sad that this is how it is but I'm also astounded because I would not have expected this with my SO. I'm in an amazing relationship. It is very healthy and we treat each other so well. So the fact that someone is barring him from the festivities because of an opinion based on unfounded facts just blows my mind. I'd understand if they said "no he hits you, or you're in an unhealthy relationship, we'd rather not have him there" but that wasn't it at all. I'm really really disappointed with my sister.

Don't worry too much about it. I have a feeling when it gets closer to Christmas, your sister might cave and invite your SO. She's trying to control everything and be a bitch; when she sees that she's not going to get away with it and that you're not buying into it, she might let up a bit, especially if your mom is pressuring her to make sure the whole family is together. 

If your mom keeps harping on you that family comes first, let her know that your SO IS your family. Blood and DNA don't automatically make people family; your real family is made up of the people who love and care about you and who respect you. 

If that happens, my advice would be that you can leave at any time. If she wants to make a big deal about your SO's views and parade her own beliefs around her event- you don't have to stay for it. 

novella1186

SBmini said:

novella1186 said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

SBmini said:

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

That's a good idea actually. I didn't even think of that. If my sister doesn't change her mind I'll contact my mom and take her out to dinner with my SO for Christmas. Then I can give her her gifts and my siblings gifts. I feel really sad that this is how it is but I'm also astounded because I would not have expected this with my SO. I'm in an amazing relationship. It is very healthy and we treat each other so well. So the fact that someone is barring him from the festivities because of an opinion based on unfounded facts just blows my mind. I'd understand if they said "no he hits you, or you're in an unhealthy relationship, we'd rather not have him there" but that wasn't it at all. I'm really really disappointed with my sister.

Don't worry too much about it. I have a feeling when it gets closer to Christmas, your sister might cave and invite your SO. She's trying to control everything and be a bitch; when she sees that she's not going to get away with it and that you're not buying into it, she might let up a bit, especially if your mom is pressuring her to make sure the whole family is together. 

If your mom keeps harping on you that family comes first, let her know that your SO IS your family. Blood and DNA don't automatically make people family; your real family is made up of the people who love and care about you and who respect you. 

If that happens, my advice would be that you can leave at any time. If she wants to make a big deal about your SO's views and parade her own beliefs around her event- you don't have to stay for it. 

Yeah no matter how the Christmas plans turn out, the bolded is so very true. Don't put up with it. Don't sit there and take her abuse. Walk out of the room or just leave. 

And even if your SO does end up getting an invite, I would still recommend just spending the holidays with his family instead of yours. Sounds like it might turn out more peaceful and more enjoyable that way. 

PrettyGirlLost

SBmini said:

novella1186 said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

SBmini said:

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

That's a good idea actually. I didn't even think of that. If my sister doesn't change her mind I'll contact my mom and take her out to dinner with my SO for Christmas. Then I can give her her gifts and my siblings gifts. I feel really sad that this is how it is but I'm also astounded because I would not have expected this with my SO. I'm in an amazing relationship. It is very healthy and we treat each other so well. So the fact that someone is barring him from the festivities because of an opinion based on unfounded facts just blows my mind. I'd understand if they said "no he hits you, or you're in an unhealthy relationship, we'd rather not have him there" but that wasn't it at all. I'm really really disappointed with my sister.

Don't worry too much about it. I have a feeling when it gets closer to Christmas, your sister might cave and invite your SO. She's trying to control everything and be a bitch; when she sees that she's not going to get away with it and that you're not buying into it, she might let up a bit, especially if your mom is pressuring her to make sure the whole family is together. 

If your mom keeps harping on you that family comes first, let her know that your SO IS your family. Blood and DNA don't automatically make people family; your real family is made up of the people who love and care about you and who respect you. 

If that happens, my advice would be that you can leave at any time. If she wants to make a big deal about your SO's views and parade her own beliefs around her event- you don't have to stay for it. 

Exactly, that's not engaging @SBmini‌! You got it now.

ChemFanatic25

STARMOON44 said:

Advice: stop getting drunk with your family. It makes you more vulnerable to her insults and makes your own recollections unreliable.

This was the first time I did this. We have some drinking problems in my family so I've always been cautious about when I drink and for what reasons. I kind of panicked though because right off the bat my mom was snarky when she showed up. I will never be doing that again though.

ChemFanatic25

novella1186 said:

SBmini said:

novella1186 said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

SBmini said:

Good for you for telling your sister that! But you have to stand your ground. Your sister is manipulative. And if she is going to manipulate your mom into helping to manipulate you then you definitely have an issue. None of this works if you cave! Just stand your ground. Repeat what you said to your sister to your mom and tell her that you wish you could come, but you cannot support your sister if she continues to manipulate and put her beliefs and feelings above everyone elses'. Let your mom know it has nothing to do with her and that you are sorry you won't be seeing her- set up some time to see her at another venue. 

That's a good idea actually. I didn't even think of that. If my sister doesn't change her mind I'll contact my mom and take her out to dinner with my SO for Christmas. Then I can give her her gifts and my siblings gifts. I feel really sad that this is how it is but I'm also astounded because I would not have expected this with my SO. I'm in an amazing relationship. It is very healthy and we treat each other so well. So the fact that someone is barring him from the festivities because of an opinion based on unfounded facts just blows my mind. I'd understand if they said "no he hits you, or you're in an unhealthy relationship, we'd rather not have him there" but that wasn't it at all. I'm really really disappointed with my sister.

Don't worry too much about it. I have a feeling when it gets closer to Christmas, your sister might cave and invite your SO. She's trying to control everything and be a bitch; when she sees that she's not going to get away with it and that you're not buying into it, she might let up a bit, especially if your mom is pressuring her to make sure the whole family is together. 

If your mom keeps harping on you that family comes first, let her know that your SO IS your family. Blood and DNA don't automatically make people family; your real family is made up of the people who love and care about you and who respect you. 

If that happens, my advice would be that you can leave at any time. If she wants to make a big deal about your SO's views and parade her own beliefs around her event- you don't have to stay for it. 

Yeah no matter how the Christmas plans turn out, the bolded is so very true. Don't put up with it. Don't sit there and take her abuse. Walk out of the room or just leave. 

And even if your SO does end up getting an invite, I would still recommend just spending the holidays with his family instead of yours. Sounds like it might turn out more peaceful and more enjoyable that way. 

I'm actually thinking about doing that because being with my family does really stress me out. Two Christmases ago, my dad and brother got into a really really bad fight and my brother crashed at my place for a week. I ended up cutting contact with my dad because of what he did. 

Last Thanksgiving, my sister got into a fight with me and I'm still baffled by the argument. It was very hypocritical and no matter how I tried to reason with her, she wasn't having it. My ex actually said that he did not understand why she was freaking out and telling me to calm down when I was very calm. He also didn't understand the argument and she confirmed what we argued. Christmas was very cold and awkward that year because my mom wanted me to apologize to my sister to make peace.

So the holidays are not my favorite time of the year if you can tell. So that's why I was either considering making it "ChemFanatic" time or spending time with my SO and his family. Might even split it half and half.

PrettyGirlLost

BTW OP, your SO gets it. . . He knows your family sucks with respect to how they treat you, he saw it in action and he told you he doesn't like it.   He doesn't need to know what your sister said in order to pick up that she doesn't like him.  So don't worry about shielding him from her or your mom. In fact in a way it's better to have someone who "gets it" and who can be in your court and help you maintain boundaries with your family and help you not engage in their BS.

And when I say not engage, I mean it as a three step kind of process
STep 1- You confront the BS behavior directly. Example- "I'm sorry Sister, but if SO isn't invited to Christmas then I'm afraid I won't be able to make it either. "

Step 2- You ignore or deflect any drama, histrionics, moaning, whining, etc. by setting a boundary and indicating your unwillingness to discuss whatever any further.  Example- "I'm sorry that we won't be able to make it to Christmas, Mom, but you are more than welcomed to stop by and visit with us any time that day.  I'm not going to discuss my issues with Sister any further. . . so did you find a sweater for your Ugly Sweater party?"

Step 3- When people push at your boundaries you remind them what those boundaries are and if they persist in pushing then you remove yourself from the situation (physically leave, hang up phone, etc.) and you explain why.  Example- "Mom, I told you I wasn't going to discuss my issues with Sister and Christmas any further.  Sorry, but I have to go"  *hang up phone*.

Lather, rinse, repeat these steps until the other people modify their behaviors.  And usually they won't modify their behaviors because they've realized what assholes they have been. . . they modify their behaviors because they are not getting the reaction out of you that they want, so they move on to a more "willing" target so to speak.

ChemFanatic25

Jen4948 said:

I would tell your sister that you don't accept invitations that exclude your SO-especially in favor of dogs, so you won't be attending her event. Then follow through by skipping it and minimizing all contact with her going forward. Her attitude towards you is terrible. My first loyalty would be to your SO. He deserves it-a person like your sister who treats you and him like crap does not.

 I don't know if I should tell him what she said. He probably won't care or at least apologize if he offended her in some way (though not if he doesn't believe he did anything wrong). So I've only let him know that I will probably not be spending time with my family this year.

ChemFanatic25

PrettyGirlLost said:

BTW OP, your SO gets it. . . He knows your family sucks with respect to how they treat you, he saw it in action and he told you he doesn't like it.   He doesn't need to know what your sister said in order to pick up that she doesn't like him.  So don't worry about shielding him from her or your mom. In fact in a way it's better to have someone who "gets it" and who can be in your court and help you maintain boundaries with your family and help you not engage in their BS.

And when I say not engage, I mean it as a three step kind of process
STep 1- You confront the BS behavior directly. Example- "I'm sorry Sister, but if SO isn't invited to Christmas then I'm afraid I won't be able to make it either. "

Step 2- You ignore or deflect any drama, histrionics, moaning, whining, etc. by setting a boundary and indicating your unwillingness to discuss whatever any further.  Example- "I'm sorry that we won't be able to make it to Christmas, Mom, but you are more than welcomed to stop by and visit with us any time that day.  I'm not going to discuss my issues with Sister any further. . . so did you find a sweater for your Ugly Sweater party?"

Step 3- When people push at your boundaries you remind them what those boundaries are and if they persist in pushing then you remove yourself from the situation (physically leave, hang up phone, etc.) and you explain why.  Example- "Mom, I told you I wasn't going to discuss my issues with Sister and Christmas any further.  Sorry, but I have to go"  *hang up phone*.

Lather, rinse, repeat these steps until the other people modify their behaviors.  And usually they won't modify their behaviors because they've realized what assholes they have been. . . they modify their behaviors because they are not getting the reaction out of you that they want, so they move on to a more "willing" target so to speak.

I will do my best to follow these steps. I've already accomplished step 1 :-D 

And it is nice to have someone there to support me. My ex never saw how my sister treated me as wrong. He would say things along the lines of I should support her and get over how I was feeling, or what I was feeling was silly. It really did make me feel very alone. 

PrettyGirlLost

ChemFanatic25 said:

Jen4948 said:

I would tell your sister that you don't accept invitations that exclude your SO-especially in favor of dogs, so you won't be attending her event. Then follow through by skipping it and minimizing all contact with her going forward. Her attitude towards you is terrible. My first loyalty would be to your SO. He deserves it-a person like your sister who treats you and him like crap does not.

 I don't know if I should tell him what she said. He probably won't care or at least apologize if he offended her in some way (though not if he doesn't believe he did anything wrong). So I've only let him know that I will probably not be spending time with my family this year.

I wouldn't do it.  Like I said, he doesn't need to know the specifics of what she said to know that she doesn't like him. . . and honestly does he even care if she likes him?

He already has picked up that the way she treats you isn't OK, so I'm sure he's not surprised that she treats him similarly.

ChemFanatic25

PrettyGirlLost said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

Jen4948 said:

I would tell your sister that you don't accept invitations that exclude your SO-especially in favor of dogs, so you won't be attending her event. Then follow through by skipping it and minimizing all contact with her going forward. Her attitude towards you is terrible. My first loyalty would be to your SO. He deserves it-a person like your sister who treats you and him like crap does not.

 I don't know if I should tell him what she said. He probably won't care or at least apologize if he offended her in some way (though not if he doesn't believe he did anything wrong). So I've only let him know that I will probably not be spending time with my family this year.

I wouldn't do it.  Like I said, he doesn't need to know the specifics of what she said to know that she doesn't like him. . . and honestly does he even care if she likes him?

He already has picked up that the way she treats you isn't OK, so I'm sure he's not surprised that she treats him similarly.

No I don't think he cares at all. As long as he is polite and respectful he doesn't care.

theartistformerlyknownas

ChemFanatic25 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

BTW OP, your SO gets it. . . He knows your family sucks with respect to how they treat you, he saw it in action and he told you he doesn't like it.   He doesn't need to know what your sister said in order to pick up that she doesn't like him.  So don't worry about shielding him from her or your mom. In fact in a way it's better to have someone who "gets it" and who can be in your court and help you maintain boundaries with your family and help you not engage in their BS.

And when I say not engage, I mean it as a three step kind of process
STep 1- You confront the BS behavior directly. Example- "I'm sorry Sister, but if SO isn't invited to Christmas then I'm afraid I won't be able to make it either. "

Step 2- You ignore or deflect any drama, histrionics, moaning, whining, etc. by setting a boundary and indicating your unwillingness to discuss whatever any further.  Example- "I'm sorry that we won't be able to make it to Christmas, Mom, but you are more than welcomed to stop by and visit with us any time that day.  I'm not going to discuss my issues with Sister any further. . . so did you find a sweater for your Ugly Sweater party?"

Step 3- When people push at your boundaries you remind them what those boundaries are and if they persist in pushing then you remove yourself from the situation (physically leave, hang up phone, etc.) and you explain why.  Example- "Mom, I told you I wasn't going to discuss my issues with Sister and Christmas any further.  Sorry, but I have to go"  *hang up phone*.

Lather, rinse, repeat these steps until the other people modify their behaviors.  And usually they won't modify their behaviors because they've realized what assholes they have been. . . they modify their behaviors because they are not getting the reaction out of you that they want, so they move on to a more "willing" target so to speak.

I will do my best to follow these steps. I've already accomplished step 1 :-D 

And it is nice to have someone there to support me. My ex never saw how my sister treated me as wrong. He would say things along the lines of I should support her and get over how I was feeling, or what I was feeling was silly. It really did make me feel very alone. 

Well it's a good thing he's your ex then, and that you're with someone now who is not a dirt bag.

Good luck, you got this!!

novella1186

Your sister sounds a lot like my sister, OP. And your mom kind of sounds like my mom. 

The last huge fight we got into was this past July at my engagement party. My sister attacked me out of nowhere and said some pretty horrific things. My FI was there to witness it and wasn't even surprised cuz he knows what a bitch she is, but he jumped in and stood up for me cuz he couldn't stand to see me get attacked like that. I didn't even yell back at her, I didn't throw any insults back at her, I just kept trying to calm her down and figure out what she was so pissed about. Even now, I have no idea what set her off. 

Well, after that blow-up she quit speaking to me. My mom finally guilt-tripped me into apologizing. I knew I wasn't the one who was wrong, but I was sick of the feuding and the guilt trips so I did end up apologizing to her. It was totally worthless. She STILL won't speak to me. Haven't heard a single word form her in almost 5 months now. She's going to be at my parents' house for Thanksgiving tomorrow and so will FI and I, so we'll see how that goes. 

What I've realized over these 5 months though, after a lot of soul searching and thinking, and after many posts on these boards and all these wonderful Knotties giving me their opinions and advice and helping me deal with this, is that it's her problem, not mine. She's just a crazy bitch. Always has been, always will be. And all I can do is not engage in it and not let it hurt me because as I said in an earlier post, the shit she says about me isn't true. I know that, FI knows it, my friends know it, and (most of) my family knows it, so that's all that matters. 

You'll get to the point where you realize this too and then it won't hurt so much. And you'll start learning how to not let your mother manipulate you when your sister misbehaves and you've done nothing wrong. It's not easy, but you'll get there. 

PM me any time if you ever need to, and vent on these boards as much as you want. We're always here! 

randomnumber041616

At this point, I think you've done good telling her that you won't be attending without SO.  Honestly, even if she does change her mind closer to Christmas, I would have to just say "I appreciate you inviting SO, but since we didn't think we were welcome at your house, we have already made arrangements to spend Christmas with his parents."  Maybe next year, she'll let you know from the get go that he is invited. 

ChemFanatic25

novella1186 said:

Your sister sounds a lot like my sister, OP. And your mom kind of sounds like my mom. 

The last huge fight we got into was this past July at my engagement party. My sister attacked me out of nowhere and said some pretty horrific things. My FI was there to witness it and wasn't even surprised cuz he knows what a bitch she is, but he jumped in and stood up for me cuz he couldn't stand to see me get attacked like that. I didn't even yell back at her, I didn't throw any insults back at her, I just kept trying to calm her down and figure out what she was so pissed about. Even now, I have no idea what set her off. 

Well, after that blow-up she quit speaking to me. My mom finally guilt-tripped me into apologizing. I knew I wasn't the one who was wrong, but I was sick of the feuding and the guilt trips so I did end up apologizing to her. It was totally worthless. She STILL won't speak to me. Haven't heard a single word form her in almost 5 months now. She's going to be at my parents' house for Thanksgiving tomorrow and so will FI and I, so we'll see how that goes. 

What I've realized over these 5 months though, after a lot of soul searching and thinking, and after many posts on these boards and all these wonderful Knotties giving me their opinions and advice and helping me deal with this, is that it's her problem, not mine. She's just a crazy bitch. Always has been, always will be. And all I can do is not engage in it and not let it hurt me because as I said in an earlier post, the shit she says about me isn't true. I know that, FI knows it, my friends know it, and (most of) my family knows it, so that's all that matters. 

You'll get to the point where you realize this too and then it won't hurt so much. And you'll start learning how to not let your mother manipulate you when your sister misbehaves and you've done nothing wrong. It's not easy, but you'll get there. 

PM me any time if you ever need to, and vent on these boards as much as you want. We're always here! 

This is exactly what happened last Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, although my ex-FI was just as confused as me, he still thought I should be the one to apologize and be understanding of her behavior. He's a great guy and I'm still friends with him but I'm glad I have someone who actually supports me.

Thank you for the support. Everyone has been very patient and helpful with me and I couldn't ask for more. I really appreciate it. I hope one day I can get to the point where my sister and mom don't have that kind of control over me. I don't want it to ruin my relationship with my SO and I won't let that happen. He does come first especially because I can see a future with this man. 

l9i

OP a lot of what you've said sounds very similar to issues I have gone through.  My relationship growing up was always rocky with my brother and mom, they are one in the same where I was more like my dad.  Shortly after H and I started dating things got horrible when brother starting dating BSC.  She didn't like me for whatever reason and created all these stories and so much drama (still don't know why).  Well, brother went crazy then and mom supported it.  DH saw how they treated me and backed me 110%.  At this time in my life I was like you, I couldn't stand to disapoint people!  I was made to feel guilty over the things BSC had said and done and was 'forced' to appologize for nothing.  Do you think it helped?  Nope!

Skip to present day and things are still rocky bc BSC is still in the picture.  I've had time to reflect and realize all of this isn't me, its on them.  Also, just because we share DNA doesn't mean he's 'family' to me.  I'll used the advice of PP and it's worked.  When new issue come up it's "That's unfortunate but I won't be able to make it".  After that I don' discuss it, I don't change my position and I hold my ground.  It's worked and I deal with a whole lot less crap because of it.  Also remember, you can leave at any time - don't subject yourself to their poor treatment.  I only had to do this once and it sent the message loud and clear that I'm done with their crap.  Also, through this whole experience my confidence has grown tremendously from must please everyone to actually thinking about myself and what I need and allowing toxic people to exit my life.

Just know you have support, you have your SO, and you always have people here who have been where you are.  YOU CAN DO IT!