#CrimingWhileWhite

novella1186

STARMOON44 said:

Right,

STARMOON44 said:

Omg. I am rolling my eyes so hard at this. I think people are focused far too much on race. Police should be reprimanded/punished/whatever when they fail to do their jobs correctly. The race of the officer and the race of any other person involved should be irrelevant. (I know in some areas there really are discrimination problems, but when the news media and social media get so obsessed and fixated on RACE RACE RACE I think they make things much worse) 

I'm white, and I was once pulled over by THREE police cars and had a K9 unit on me, for ROLLERBLADING. I was like 13 at the time. It was ridiculous, and way too much. 

It's easy to think people are focused too much on race when you're white. Try that when you're black and living in a country that glorified legal racism for generations. Sometimes the best thing to do is realize that you don't know and listen.

You're right. I've been able to relate to some discrimination issues because I've faced them at times in a different way (being Jewish) but I've never known what it's like to be discriminated against based on my skin (since I'm white). I wasn't trying to downplay at all that there are race issues, and that certain races in the US have had to face a lot of shit and continue to face a lot of shit (I realize my post gives the impression that I was downplaying the issue. That was my own bad wording, sorry). 

I just don't like the way the media is with it sometimes. But for that matter, I don't like the way the media is with a lot of things, because it's usually over-sensationalized or misrepresented for the sake of ratings, and then it gives audiences false impressions or whatever. I think there's usually a more honest, logical way to approach problems, but that often gets over-shadowed by whatever will get the most attention, ya know? 

Like someone posting on Facebook that "all the black people in Ferguson are acting like thugs." Um no. SOME people in Ferguson are inciting violence. Some of them are black. Some of them are white. Many people are doing nothing wrong. Let's keep the facts straight here. But that Facebook post got tons of attention so I guess it was the right thing to say? THAT'S what makes me roll my eyes.

I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about. There is no way to report on white cops killing black men without talking about racism. Because that is what's happening. There is no more honest or logical way to put it. Black men get killed by the police because of racism. Your complaint about that Facebook post seemingly has nothing to do with the rest of your comment. Sure. Some people post dumb crap on Facebook. That doesn't mean there exists an honest colorblind way to report this story.

lol I'm doing a terrible job of explaining things today. My first post was about news media AND social media, so in the second post I started talking about news media and then jumped back to social media. I keep re-reading my stuff and thinking "Yeah that doesn't make sense." 

What I had in mind with the news media thing was a piece published yesterday by CNN that looked at how the NY Times and Fox News reported the same story on police and discrimination against black people, and black people being shot by white officers. Although the two reports were on the same thing, they were presented in two completely different ways, and CNN was exploring WHY they were completely different, and what kind of sources those two news outlets were using for their information. 

One was saying it's not true that black people are shot by police more than white people, but CNN found flaws in the source info and in the way the information was reported. That's what I was trying to get at by news media sometimes not being logical, or twisting things around and giving audiences the wrong idea. The facebook thing I brought up at the end was just a vent about people being idiots on social media. 

Sorry for the confusion. I need to get my own thoughts clear before I post. 

amelisha

Our cultural makeup is different in Canada so I am hesitant to comment too much (we have plenty of racial issues and I don't claim otherwise, but they are not the same as those in the States), but I am a woman, and as a woman I know what it's like to be treated poorly due to my gender and then to have men disbelieve me when I tell them about it. Therefore, I believe other people when they talk about their experiences as a person of a certain ethnicity even if I haven't seen it.

I'm white, I'm middle class, but I am trying to become as aware of my privilege as possible because I know I am part of the problem if I remain ignorant. And I hope that one day everyone will get to live in a place where they are treated with respect by law enforcement like I always, always am.

esstee33

wandajune6 said:

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

Did you read the Ta-Nehisi Coates article in The Atlantic that came out this summer(clicky<-)? I thought I knew a decent amount about the long-term impact of slavery but this article hit me hard. While the article hasn't been left undisputed, I think it does a great job of overviewing the topic.

I love Ta-Nehisi Coates so hard. He went on an incredible rant on his twitter last night that's definitely worth reading. 

esstee33

novella1186 said:

Omg. I am rolling my eyes so hard at this. I think people are focused far too much on race. Police should be reprimanded/punished/whatever when they fail to do their jobs correctly. The race of the officer and the race of any other person involved should be irrelevant. (I know in some areas there really are discrimination problems, but when the news media and social media get so obsessed and fixated on RACE RACE RACE I think they make things much worse) 

I'm white, and I was once pulled over by THREE police cars and had a K9 unit on me, for ROLLERBLADING. I was like 13 at the time. It was ridiculous, and way too much. 

I think you're missing the point that even though the bolded is true, that these things SHOULD BE, they simply aren't, a huge portion of the time. The media sensationalization of it isn't making it worse; it's simply shining a light on things that are already there. They don't go away when you stop looking at them. 

If anything, I'm glad the media are a bunch of sensationalist fucks, because the more attention this horseshit gets, the more people are talking about it, the more it becomes a front-page issue, the closer we can maybe get to different people coming to an understanding that we have a massive fucking problem with racism in this country, which could maybe lead to things actually happening to fix it.

Nothing gets fixed if we don't talk about it. 

larrygaga

lyndausvi said:

I use to live in the US Virgin Islands.    The USVI was about 9-10% white.   There was only 2 white cops on the force when I lived there.  The cops absolutely targeted white people when driving.    They didn't even hid the fact that they would pull you over just because you were white. Especially if you were new or a tourist.  They never roughed anyone up, that would be bad for tourism, but they would give you tickets and not local west indians.   It was well known they would take brides to get out of tickets and stuff.     Burglaries and break-ins on white houses were rarely were solved.  Almost laughed that you even reported anything.

That police force was pretty corrupt in general.  I mean when you only have 40,000 people on island and most people have multiple children from multiple partners, well everyone is pretty much related to a police officer, whether directly or indirectly. I eventually became friends with some police officers and had my own connections.

Anyway, I never thought of it was racism just some of them are prejudice of whites.  Unlike their family in the mainland, they do have the power and like to show the whites who is in control.

It's interesting that you saw the other side of it!!!

AuroraRose41

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

novella1186

esstee33 said:

novella1186 said:

Omg. I am rolling my eyes so hard at this. I think people are focused far too much on race. Police should be reprimanded/punished/whatever when they fail to do their jobs correctly. The race of the officer and the race of any other person involved should be irrelevant. (I know in some areas there really are discrimination problems, but when the news media and social media get so obsessed and fixated on RACE RACE RACE I think they make things much worse) 

I'm white, and I was once pulled over by THREE police cars and had a K9 unit on me, for ROLLERBLADING. I was like 13 at the time. It was ridiculous, and way too much. 

I think you're missing the point that even though the bolded is true, that these things SHOULD BE, they simply aren't, a huge portion of the time. The media sensationalization of it isn't making it worse; it's simply shining a light on things that are already there. They don't go away when you stop looking at them. 

If anything, I'm glad the media are a bunch of sensationalist fucks, because the more attention this horseshit gets, the more people are talking about it, the more it becomes a front-page issue, the closer we can maybe get to different people coming to an understanding that we have a massive fucking problem with racism in this country, which could maybe lead to things actually happening to fix it.

Nothing gets fixed if we don't talk about it. 

100% agree that just because it should be doesn't mean it is.

What I meant was that these things need to be looked at in a case-by-case basis and if the cop has failed to do their job (for example they have done something based on a person's race) then they should be punished accordingly. You can't say "all white cops are like this" just like you can't say "all black teens are like this" because of course either of those statements would be wrong and harmful. 

Sometimes I think the media plays it out as if it's a war between all white cops and all black people, when in reality not all cops are racist and some do their job well, and not all black people have an anti cop attitude or problems with the police. A few days ago a friend of mine (who is black) was talking about this same issue and said he's never had a problem with police and never felt like they were "against" him, but at the same time he has other friends/relatives who have had problems that seemed to be based on their color. At the same time, other media sources claim that this isn't a real problem, even though a plethora of evidence and experiences have shown it is in fact a problem. Obviously that's not how my post came out at all, though. I worded it poorly and didn't really get my thoughts straight before I said something. 

And yes, absolutely racism needs to be called out for what it is. People should be talking about it. And the people who deny that it exists are causing a lot of harm. 

stefuhknee

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

I can honestly say that I have never witnessed teenagers or children accuse their teachers of being racist in order for them to receive higher grades. Maybe, it's because I grew up in NYC amid lots of diversity however quite frankly that sounds absurd to me and I don't see how it relates to the larger issue of racism and police brutality that has become relevant to our generation.

lyndausvi

larrygaga said:

lyndausvi said:

I use to live in the US Virgin Islands.    The USVI was about 9-10% white.   There was only 2 white cops on the force when I lived there.  The cops absolutely targeted white people when driving.    They didn't even hid the fact that they would pull you over just because you were white. Especially if you were new or a tourist.  They never roughed anyone up, that would be bad for tourism, but they would give you tickets and not local west indians.   It was well known they would take brides to get out of tickets and stuff.     Burglaries and break-ins on white houses were rarely were solved.  Almost laughed that you even reported anything.

That police force was pretty corrupt in general.  I mean when you only have 40,000 people on island and most people have multiple children from multiple partners, well everyone is pretty much related to a police officer, whether directly or indirectly. I eventually became friends with some police officers and had my own connections.

Anyway, I never thought of it was racism just some of them are prejudice of whites.  Unlike their family in the mainland, they do have the power and like to show the whites who is in control.

It's interesting that you saw the other side of it!!!

Yes and No.   I caught the other side when it comes to moving or parking violations. Police would target whites in that way. If a non-tourist-white person was beaten by a WI, the WI would never get arrested.  If a WI hurt a tourist (regardless of the race), then there would be an investigation.   

Sure I would get teeth sucking from time to time from WI just because I was white.   But I wasn't denied housing from West Indians, nor was  I denied a job.  Nor anything even close to what a person of color deals with in the states.

The WI treated Haitians way worse than whites.    I had a Haitian co-worker who was shot dead in his own home.   Word on the street was someone we knew shot the co-worker.  The police never even opened up an investigation.  They basically said it was "just" a Haitian and threw his body on a plane back to Haiti.       

AuroraRose41

stefuhknee said:

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

I can honestly say that I have never witnessed teenagers or children accuse their teachers of being racist in order for them to receive higher grades. Maybe, it's because I grew up in NYC amid lots of diversity however quite frankly that sounds absurd to me and I don't see how it relates to the larger issue of racism and police brutality that has become relevant to our generation.

I grew up in Upstate NY, and in an area that many people of non white races lived. Most of the surrounding suburban neighborhoods were predominantly white, but for some reason my area was not. Maybe that had something to do with it; I'm honestly not sure. All I am saying is that I saw it happen more often than you might think, and it did seem to perpetuate racism at my school. 

I meant that it could be relevant because if I saw this happen, others might have too (or even were the ones who participated in fighting with different races over things like this), and if it was seen at a young age, then it could affect opinions on race into adulthood that is now causing some of these issues. Maybe more people would be willing to actually see that there is a true racism issue then just simply thinking that they are crying wolf again like they saw when they were younger. 

ETA: In my last statement, I meant that if what I saw growing up stopped, then maybe it would help people to see that real racism does still exist and it is not just people crying out that it's there just to avoid the consequences of their actions. I certainly believe that it does still exist, but wanted to bring up a point as to why some people might think otherwise. 

novella1186

lyndausvi said:

larrygaga said:

lyndausvi said:

I use to live in the US Virgin Islands.    The USVI was about 9-10% white.   There was only 2 white cops on the force when I lived there.  The cops absolutely targeted white people when driving.    They didn't even hid the fact that they would pull you over just because you were white. Especially if you were new or a tourist.  They never roughed anyone up, that would be bad for tourism, but they would give you tickets and not local west indians.   It was well known they would take brides to get out of tickets and stuff.     Burglaries and break-ins on white houses were rarely were solved.  Almost laughed that you even reported anything.

That police force was pretty corrupt in general.  I mean when you only have 40,000 people on island and most people have multiple children from multiple partners, well everyone is pretty much related to a police officer, whether directly or indirectly. I eventually became friends with some police officers and had my own connections.

Anyway, I never thought of it was racism just some of them are prejudice of whites.  Unlike their family in the mainland, they do have the power and like to show the whites who is in control.

It's interesting that you saw the other side of it!!!

Yes and No.   I caught the other side when it comes to moving or parking violations. Police would target whites in that way. If a non-tourist-white person was beaten by a WI, the WI would never get arrested.  If a WI hurt a tourist (regardless of the race), then there would be an investigation.   

Sure I would get teeth sucking from time to time from WI just because I was white.   But I wasn't denied housing from West Indians, nor was  I denied a job.  Nor anything even close to what a person of color deals with in the states.

The WI treated Haitians way worse than whites.    I had a Haitian co-worker who was shot dead in his own home.   Word on the street was someone we knew shot the co-worker.  The police never even opened up an investigation.  They basically said it was "just" a Haitian and threw his body on a plane back to Haiti.       

Holy shit. That's not just an injustice, it's fucking scary. 

STARMOON44

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

Yes. The solution to white bigotry is black people being perfect. Only then can we admit they're human.

AuroraRose41

@STARMOON44 I never said that they need to be perfect or that they are not human. Everyone is human and deserves the same rights as everyone else regardless of race. I was only trying to provide a different side as to why some people might not understand what the big deal is (and I fully believe that it IS a big deal that needs to be addressed). 

ETA: Also, how is owning up to your mistakes being "perfect"? 

stefuhknee

ETA: In my last statement, I meant that if what I saw growing up stopped, then maybe it would help people to see that real racism does still exist and it is not just people crying out that it's there just to avoid the consequences of their actions. I certainly believe that it does still exist, but wanted to bring up a point as to why some people might think otherwise. 

AuroraRose41 - I guess to me this sounds like a cop out. So because teenagers witnessed certain individuals accusing someone of being racist who by your account wasn't then they grew up to believe that racism doesn't exist. #seemslegit

JCbride2015

@AuroroaRose41 I also went to a suburban high school where whites were statistically a minority.  I saw lots of teenagers be idiots and pull all kinds of "cards" about grades, why won't I date you, whatever.  Just because 60-70% of my high school classmates were black, guess what, I saw a lot of black teenagers be idiots.  I saw white teenagers be idiots too, but there were less of them, so I saw less white idiocy.

I didn't come out of that experience equating black teenagers being dumb with black adults pulling the race card.  All teenagers do idiotic things.

manillabar

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

I disagree with the bolded.  And i'm having hard time properly articulating what I want to say, but my problem is that you are blaming these kids for other people's racist attitudes, which is absurd.  It's like after the riots in Ferguson when people were saying "This is why black people get the stereotypes that they do! They are not helping their cause!"  They are not the reason for the racist stereotypes,  The stereotypes exist, and people choose to find whatever they can to substantiate them in order to assuage their own (faulty) consciences.  If anyone can look at an entire race and pass judgement and make assumptions, then there is no one to blame but that person who chooses to generalize and use that as an excuse for their own racism. 

STARMOON44

AuroraRose41 said:

@STARMOON44 I never said that they need to be perfect or that they are not human. Everyone is human and deserves the same rights as everyone else regardless of race. I was only trying to provide a different side as to why some people might not understand what the big deal is (and I fully believe that it IS a big deal that needs to be addressed). 

ETA: Also, how is owning up to your mistakes being "perfect"? 

So two things :

1- not getting that racism is a big deal is unacceptable bigotry, and I'm unconcerned with whatever excuses you want to make for those people.

2- I don't believe any black person owes anyone an apology for any supposed "mistake". Were your people enslaved? Did you get a reparations check? Has society bent over backwards to fix it? Nope? You go ahead and "play" whatever "race card" you want.

stefuhknee

manillabar - I couldn't agree more.

AuroraRose41

manillabar said:

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

I disagree with the bolded.  And i'm having hard time properly articulating what I want to say, but my problem is that you are blaming these kids for other people's racist attitudes, which is absurd.  It's like after the riots in Ferguson when people were saying "This is why black people get the stereotypes that they do! They are not helping their cause!"  They are not the reason for the racist stereotypes,  The stereotypes exist, and people choose to find whatever they can to substantiate them in order to assuage their own (faulty) consciences.  If anyone can look at an entire race and pass judgement and make assumptions, then there is no one to blame but that person who chooses to generalize and use that as an excuse for their own racism. 

@manillabar, to the bolded, this is what I was trying to say in not so many words. I agree with your statement here. And as I have said many times, I do not believe personally in this logic, but was trying to offer a possible reason that others might see it this way. I never generalized that all black people did this, or that all white people grew up racist when seeing things like this (I certainly didn't), but rather trying to play devil's advocate based on experiences that I had growing up and saw people become angry toward others and those people would think that racism did not exist because they thought that it was just a way to get out of something after witnessing events such as this. 

@JCBride2015 I saw many idiots of all races growing up too. And my anecdotes were about teenagers, yes, but there were many instances of things like this from kindergarten through 12th grade. If people see things like this repeatedly growing up, it can influence their opinions well into adulthood. It's a product of upbringing. This was my point, and I want to reiterate that this may not account for all or even the majority of views that racism does not exist in our society, but it could account for some. 

AuroraRose41

STARMOON44 said:

@STARMOON44 I never said that they need to be perfect or that they are not human. Everyone is human and deserves the same rights as everyone else regardless of race. I was only trying to provide a different side as to why some people might not understand what the big deal is (and I fully believe that it IS a big deal that needs to be addressed). 

ETA: Also, how is owning up to your mistakes being "perfect"? 

So two things : 1- not getting that racism is a big deal is unacceptable bigotry, and I'm unconcerned with whatever excuses you want to make for those people. 

 2- I don't believe any black person owes anyone an apology for any supposed "mistake". Were your people enslaved? Did you get a reparations check? Has society bent over backwards to fix it? Nope? You go ahead and "play" whatever "race card" you want.

I was not making excuses so much as trying to say "Hey, I saw this happen, and it made the issue worse. We should try to fix that too and educate people on what is and is not racism."  

And the mistakes that I referred to were just everyday life ones such as getting a bad grade for not doing an assignment properly, which I was saying that everyone regardless of race should own up to and try to do better next time. 

stefuhknee

AuroraRose41- It kind of just sounds like you are making excuses for these people. You are trying to "show the other side" but in reality you are just trying to justify bigotry which is not okay. Also, using the anecdote of a child (K-12) using the "race card" to get a better grade is nowhere near comparable to actual lives being altered due to wrongful arrest and worse, death.

[Deleted User]

STARMOON44

Yeah in the great panoply of issues we should fix in this country related to race, sh!t teenagers say to get out of a bad grade doesn't even make my list.

And frankly I think suggesting it should is, in and of itself, racist.

AuroraRose41

stefuhknee said:

AuroraRose41- It kind of just sounds like you are making excuses for these people. You are trying to "show the other side" but in reality you are just trying to justify bigotry which is not okay. Also, using the anecdote of a child (K-12) using the "race card" to get a better grade is nowhere near comparable to actual lives being altered due to wrongful arrest and worse, death.

I never said that it was comparable; I only said that it could be one of many things that contributed to those feelings at a young age that then lead up to these terrible tragedies. It is a terrible thing that we see going on in this country, and I am not trying to justify bigotry in any way. I am sorry if it came off that way. 

As I said before, I believe that we need to find ways to educate the public on what the reality is, and that these people are not just playing the race card so to speak. And I believe that one of the ways to do so is to identify what is causing these unjustified opinions about racism in our country, and to figure out how to get the message across that these opinions are wrong. 

manillabar

AuroraRose41 said:

manillabar said:

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

I disagree with the bolded.  And i'm having hard time properly articulating what I want to say, but my problem is that you are blaming these kids for other people's racist attitudes, which is absurd.  It's like after the riots in Ferguson when people were saying "This is why black people get the stereotypes that they do! They are not helping their cause!"  They are not the reason for the racist stereotypes,  The stereotypes exist, and people choose to find whatever they can to substantiate them in order to assuage their own (faulty) consciences.  If anyone can look at an entire race and pass judgement and make assumptions, then there is no one to blame but that person who chooses to generalize and use that as an excuse for their own racism. 

@manillabar, to the bolded, this is what I was trying to say in not so many words. I agree with your statement here. And as I have said many times, I do not believe personally in this logic, but was trying to offer a possible reason that others might see it this way. I never generalized that all black people did this, or that all white people grew up racist when seeing things like this (I certainly didn't), but rather trying to play devil's advocate based on experiences that I had growing up and saw people become angry toward others and those people would think that racism did not exist because they thought that it was just a way to get out of something after witnessing events such as this. 

@JCBride2015 I saw many idiots of all races growing up too. And my anecdotes were about teenagers, yes, but there were many instances of things like this from kindergarten through 12th grade. If people see things like this repeatedly growing up, it can influence their opinions well into adulthood. It's a product of upbringing. This was my point, and I want to reiterate that this may not account for all or even the majority of views that racism does not exist in our society, but it could account for some. 

I still find the reasoning to be faulty.  And I think anyone who would actually try to use that as an excuse to say that "black people are always pulling the race card" already has that idea in their mind and are using this to back up their false claims.  It's not a reason or excuse I'm willing to consider as valid.   

AuroraRose41 said:

STARMOON44 said:

@STARMOON44 I never said that they need to be perfect or that they are not human. Everyone is human and deserves the same rights as everyone else regardless of race. I was only trying to provide a different side as to why some people might not understand what the big deal is (and I fully believe that it IS a big deal that needs to be addressed). 

ETA: Also, how is owning up to your mistakes being "perfect"? 

So two things : 1- not getting that racism is a big deal is unacceptable bigotry, and I'm unconcerned with whatever excuses you want to make for those people. 

 2- I don't believe any black person owes anyone an apology for any supposed "mistake". Were your people enslaved? Did you get a reparations check? Has society bent over backwards to fix it? Nope? You go ahead and "play" whatever "race card" you want.

I was not making excuses so much as trying to say "Hey, I saw this happen, and it made the issue worse. We should try to fix that too and educate people on what is and is not racism."  

And the mistakes that I referred to were just everyday life ones such as getting a bad grade for not doing an assignment properly, which I was saying that everyone regardless of race should own up to and try to do better next time. 

The problem is the people who need fixing are the ones who use the actions of one person as an excuse for their racism.  So what we need is for people to not be racist, not for black people to be taught what is or is not racism so they can "cry racism" appropriately.  It still sounds like blaming black people for why others don't take racism seriously.

STARMOON44

It doesn't "sound like" blaming black people for why others don't take racism seriously. It straight up is.

JCbride2015

AuroraRose41 said:

stefuhknee said:

AuroraRose41- It kind of just sounds like you are making excuses for these people. You are trying to "show the other side" but in reality you are just trying to justify bigotry which is not okay. Also, using the anecdote of a child (K-12) using the "race card" to get a better grade is nowhere near comparable to actual lives being altered due to wrongful arrest and worse, death.

I never said that it was comparable; I only said that it could be one of many things that contributed to those feelings at a young age that then lead up to these terrible tragedies. It is a terrible thing that we see going on in this country, and I am not trying to justify bigotry in any way. I am sorry if it came off that way. 

As I said before, I believe that we need to find ways to educate the public on what the reality is, and that these people are not just playing the race card so to speak. And I believe that one of the ways to do so is to identify what is causing these unjustified opinions about racism in our country, and to figure out how to get the message across that these opinions are wrong. 

So.... black teenagers and children "pulling the race card" leads white people to grow up racist?  And you aren't making excuses?  Right, okay then.

AuroraRose41

manillabar said:

AuroraRose41 said:

manillabar said:

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

I disagree with the bolded.  And i'm having hard time properly articulating what I want to say, but my problem is that you are blaming these kids for other people's racist attitudes, which is absurd.  It's like after the riots in Ferguson when people were saying "This is why black people get the stereotypes that they do! They are not helping their cause!"  They are not the reason for the racist stereotypes,  The stereotypes exist, and people choose to find whatever they can to substantiate them in order to assuage their own (faulty) consciences.  If anyone can look at an entire race and pass judgement and make assumptions, then there is no one to blame but that person who chooses to generalize and use that as an excuse for their own racism. 

@manillabar, to the bolded, this is what I was trying to say in not so many words. I agree with your statement here. And as I have said many times, I do not believe personally in this logic, but was trying to offer a possible reason that others might see it this way. I never generalized that all black people did this, or that all white people grew up racist when seeing things like this (I certainly didn't), but rather trying to play devil's advocate based on experiences that I had growing up and saw people become angry toward others and those people would think that racism did not exist because they thought that it was just a way to get out of something after witnessing events such as this. 

@JCBride2015 I saw many idiots of all races growing up too. And my anecdotes were about teenagers, yes, but there were many instances of things like this from kindergarten through 12th grade. If people see things like this repeatedly growing up, it can influence their opinions well into adulthood. It's a product of upbringing. This was my point, and I want to reiterate that this may not account for all or even the majority of views that racism does not exist in our society, but it could account for some. 

I still find the reasoning to be faulty.  And I think anyone who would actually try to use that as an excuse to say that "black people are always pulling the race card" already has that idea in their mind and are using this to back up their false claims.  It's not a reason or excuse I'm willing to consider as valid.   

AuroraRose41 said:

STARMOON44 said:

@STARMOON44 I never said that they need to be perfect or that they are not human. Everyone is human and deserves the same rights as everyone else regardless of race. I was only trying to provide a different side as to why some people might not understand what the big deal is (and I fully believe that it IS a big deal that needs to be addressed). 

ETA: Also, how is owning up to your mistakes being "perfect"? 

So two things : 1- not getting that racism is a big deal is unacceptable bigotry, and I'm unconcerned with whatever excuses you want to make for those people. 

 2- I don't believe any black person owes anyone an apology for any supposed "mistake". Were your people enslaved? Did you get a reparations check? Has society bent over backwards to fix it? Nope? You go ahead and "play" whatever "race card" you want.

I was not making excuses so much as trying to say "Hey, I saw this happen, and it made the issue worse. We should try to fix that too and educate people on what is and is not racism."  

And the mistakes that I referred to were just everyday life ones such as getting a bad grade for not doing an assignment properly, which I was saying that everyone regardless of race should own up to and try to do better next time. 

The problem is the people who need fixing are the ones who use the actions of one person as an excuse for their racism.  So what we need is for people to not be racist, not for black people to be taught what is or is not racism so they can "cry racism" appropriately.  It still sounds like blaming black people for why others don't take racism seriously.

I apologize, I was typing fast. I did not mean that statement to only be toward black people. I meant people of all races should be educated more on what constitutes racism with actual examples to help people to not be racist in the first place, and possibly diffuse some of the situations that I described above. Clearly I am not getting my point across correctly that I do not agree with racism or bigotry, and that I am not trying to justify actions of those who do. Only identify what could be causing some of this in order to fix the overall issue that our country faces today. 

ETA: I don't believe that an issue can be resolved without identifying the causes of that issue. In this context, simply saying that something is happening sometimes isn't enough to actually change it, and I think that figuring out what caused those feelings in the first place and coming up with solutions to fix it and prevent it from occurring again is what our society needs to combat this issue. 

stefuhknee

AuroraRose41 - There's nothing to identify. Racism exists. There is no legitimate reason or singular cause for it and there is nothing that any minority group is obliged to do so that people aren't racist.

huskypuppy14

AuroraRose41 said:

This thread has definitely opened my eyes to instances of racism and white privilege that are still prevalent in today's society. I also agree that change needs to happen, and that police officers should be held accountable when they do not do their jobs properly, regardless of race of the victim. However, I want to touch on something that @stefuhknee said. 

stefuhknee said:

In some ways it's a relief to read these stories and see that there are people out there that acknowledge that we are not living in a post racial society. I've gotten into more disagreements on social media recently than ever before because people have told me that minorities need to stop playing the "race card" and black people need to get over the fact that slavery and segregation happened in this country.

To the bolded, in instances of police brutality and blatant racism I can understand how infuriating this statement is. However, I (a white aryan female) went to an inner city public school district, and saw many African American students play the race card so to speak, such as when the white teacher gave them an F for not doing their homework, or when I was called a racist for not being interested in a guy for reasons (gang involvement and no plan to ever have a career) other than his skin color. Those are only two of many examples that I saw while in school. 

I may get flamed for this, but I saw these situations happen where it had nothing to do with the person's skin color and the black students brought race into it and made it into a race issue when there was no racism present (teacher gave the white students F's too in the same situation, and there were white guys that I also was not interested in for the same reasons). I do think that they need to stop bringing racism into the argument in situations like these, especially because it did create a situation in which people did not respect them the same way after that since they would not face the consequences of their actions and that they could sometimes get out of them by playing the race card (i.e. teacher does not want to get reported to school board for racism so they raise the grade). 

This type of behavior only makes other races dislike their race as a whole more, and sometimes perpetuates true racism (the white students would hear the black student bragging about getting his grade raised and get upset at them and fight them). It is not something that I agree with, but I can see that it is part of the problem that is creating race issues. 

I would also like to add that I personally have very close friends of many different races, and that the anecdotes were things that I witnessed and did not participate in. And it would bother me if I saw anyone act racist toward any of my friends or others who did not do anything wrong and were wrongfully arrested/ticketed/convicted/etc. due to race, and I would stand up for them in a heartbeat in that situation. True racism in this country does need to be addressed, but I also do believe that part of addressing the issue is that people of different races not immediately cry racism every time someone of a different race does actually commit a crime and get arrested or gets an F for not doing an assignment and doesn't want to face the consequences. 

Honestly, your comments make me think of this stereotype: a very small percentage of woman may lie about being raped, so that means all woman who say they are raped are liars. It's the same analogy.

Do some people play a discrimination card? Sure, it happens. But just because some people are assholes doesn't change the widespread discrimination that does happen.