Seeing family members yell at their kids

steph861

Would you say anything if you repeatedly saw a family member yell at their young kids over really minor things, to the point that you thought it bordered on verbal abuse?

I'm hearing this from somebody else who's dealing with it and they're reticent to say anything lest they be cut off from the kids.

It strikes me as one of those things where you say "of course I'd say something" until you're actually faced with the situation and potential consequences.

What are your thoughts?

velvethelicopters

I'm a mandated reporter. So I'll leave it at that.

Reality is CPS isn't involved without need. And it's not that easy to remove custody.

steph861

velvethelicopters said:

I'm a mandated reporter. So I'll leave it at that.

Reality is CPS isn't involved without need. And it's not that easy to remove custody.

By "say something" I meant more along the lines of broaching the subject with the mother and/or father, not going to CPS.

lyndausvi

I guess I'm in the camp of it depends.

 Yelling at their kids over really minor things is pretty subjective.  People parent differently.  Something you witness during an afternoon might be minor to you, but when you are the parent those minor things might add up.   Some kids are little shits and will test the bounders in the presents of others thinking they can get aways with minor stuff and the parent chooses to take a stance.

Now if the parents are calling their kids little shits, fucking ass holes or stuff like that, yes I will and actually have.

larrygaga

I don't really see what the use of talking to the parents would be. Are they going to suddenly see the light? No. 

Honestly, your friend sees a small fraction of their life. If she's concerned she should call CPS, otherwise keep out of it. Kids are hard to raise, and although yelling isn't appropriate I would love to see the god-like human that can raise a kid without losing it more or less constantly. 

WinstonsGirl

I'd stay out of it cos I'm not a parent and it's not my job.  If it was more abusive in nature, I'd phone CFS, which up here is anonymous.  

jdluvr06

I'm going to preface this by saying I have a really tight knit family. I would say something if I really thought they were crossing a line with the yelling. I would more than likely pull the parent aside and make sure everything was ok with them. Getting irritated like that over little things can be a sign of stress. So I would assume that the parent just needed someone to vent to.

velvethelicopters

DF's family doesn't yell much. So any yelling I figure is earned.

Thus, yelling to point of verbal/emotional abuse - I've lived it in my family, but I don't see it daily anymore. Thus, if I would see it - ever - I'm reporting. But honestly, I can't see DF's family getting that far.

I wish CPS had stepped in to my family. But then, it wasn't anyone's business. As such, 3 dead siblings, 2 in long term prison, 1 still viciously enmeshed, 1 who got out and I have no idea on, and my fucked up mind. Eight very damaged children because it was private business. Bull shit. The degradation and assaults took place more than a few times in very public settings. The ONLY help I got was running away at 17 to an urban area where cops couldn't do much but made it clear they would if the things demanded my return.

Thus - do not care who does it. BTDT, have the therapy bills to prove it. Mandated reporter. I'm calling.

Liatris2010

I would say something, but make it private and when the kids aren't around at all.  Maybe something along the lines of how our parents' voices become our inner monologue and the importance of being cognizant of that.

climbingsingle

It depends on the situation, I guess. My father verbally abused us for years, and I wish someone had stuck up for us. So if I saw a relative verbally abusing their child, I would absolutely say something to them in private. 

novella1186

ClimbingBrideNY said:

It depends on the situation, I guess. My father verbally abused us for years, and I wish someone had stuck up for us. So if I saw a relative verbally abusing their child, I would absolutely say something to them in private. 

This. My dad said-- in front of at least three people that weren't in our immediate family-- that he was going to break my neck, and he said it in a total rage. No one said or did anything and I was fucking terrified. This is just one example that comes to mind because for some reason I was thinking about this exact incident last night when I couldn't sleep. 20 years later. 

It matters, it has a lasting impact, and it's wrong. If this was the type of thing I witnessed, I would pull the parent aside and say something. Maybe tell them this exact thing, and give them the number to my therapist. 

mrstrevor15

Just a question, but do you consider spanking a child's butt as child abuse? Raising your voice at a kid and screaming at a kid are two different things. If the parent was full on in the kids face screaming at them, then I would have a conversation with the parent and let them know that is not appropriate. If you notice it continues then call cps anonymously and first find out what and where the kid (s) will go. What will happen to these kids if they are taken away? Will they go into foster care or will you take in the child? The system is so very messed up.

themuffinman16

I don't think I would know what to do unless I know what was said. Hearing mothers of newborns, I hear the calmest person say they have yelled at their newborn and say, "why won't you go to fucking sleep!" Or "God damn it.... SLEEP!!!". Sleep deprivation is real. And any parent who has been up for a week straight is on edge. I think sometimes it is better to be there for the parent and listen to their problems. Sometimes good parents lose their patience and will yell. As long as they are not calling their kids names, or saying really disturbed things, I think it is benign.
Older kids might think their parents might not reprimand them in public and are testing their limits. And have done something that you do not know the entire situation of what the child has done before. I think it is best to stay out of it, but monitor the situation and if it escalates to verbal abuse or worse then say something to the parent or report it.

larrygaga

mrstrevor15 said:

Just a question, but do you consider spanking a child's butt as child abuse? Raising your voice at a kid and screaming at a kid are two different things. If the parent was full on in the kids face screaming at them, then I would have a conversation with the parent and let them know that is not appropriate. If you notice it continues then call cps anonymously and first find out what and where the kid (s) will go. What will happen to these kids if they are taken away? Will they go into foster care or will you take in the child? The system is so very messed up.

The kids will not be taken away for screaming. CPS will go and check out signs for other abuse. It's so, so damaging to take a kid away from their home that CPS will do anything to keep them with their parents. At most they would be required to take some sort of anger management or raising-a-child-correctly class. I learned in social work school that it pretty much has to be life threatening for the government to step in. 

OP, I actually think your friend should ask if everything is okay and if they need anything, as PPs suggested. Maybe just offer to babysit for a night, and let them get some sleep and a break from their kids. 

climbingsingle

My brother's ex-FI has had CPS called on her twice, and she still hasn't lost custody of her kid. So. 

danamw

My mother screamed at me all the time when I was a kid! I wish someone had mentioned it to her, she would have been so embarrassed she might have stopped.

But I was born in 1955, and that was accepted back then.

Couggal12

I also agree it depends on the situation. I would probably talk to the parent in private about it, and not in front of the child at the time. 

KatieinBkln

I agree with others that if I were to say anything, I would do it privately, after the fact, and away from the kids. This stuff is so fraught though--I'd have to consider my relationship with the parents and their personalities, because it might actually be safer for the kids in question if I didn't estrange myself from their parents.

I'd be more likely to try to spend time with the kids--offering them a view of a grown-up who doesn't yell at them, and trying to be a safe harbor. Worst case scenario, they might open up to me about something bad that actually IS more actionable, but even if nothing actually abusive is going on, there's no harm in being nice to a kid.

MrsMack10612

I think "yell" can be a subjective term.  Are we talking about an annoyed tone?  Raised voices?  Screaming like a banshee?

I would only find banshee like behavior to be a concern (as long as nasty, disturbing things weren't a part of it). 

NYCMercedes

My concern is the kids, so I'd take care of them. I'd hug them, entertain them, talk calmly with them, listen to them, and play with them. I guess, just give them the positive attention they need. Also, I'd try relieving the parents' stress, like bringing the family dinner or taking the kids out for an evening.

teddygirl9

I don't think there's something wrong with pulling the mom/dad aside and being like 'Hey, you seem really stressed out - is something up?'. I mean, you'd have to know this person, but I'd be concerned that there is something going on with them that is causing them to yell at their kids so much. Especially in front of other people.

ashley8918

I would mind my own damn business.  I would be LIVID if someone tried to butt into my interactions with my kids.

doeydo

I remember my mom getting into my face and yelling at me, one particular instance stands out in my head and I can't exactly remember what I did wrong, but it did affect me.  She is the type of person to grin and bear it and basically just hold all her emotions in until she explodes, and she has gotten physical with me.  If I had said anything about what she did, I probably would have been taken away.  Anyways, she would always come up to my room after and apologize.
Bottom line, if I saw a parent interact with their child and I had concern for them, I would call CAS (Children's Aid Services, as it is called here) right away.  Fuck, there was this neighbour we had one time that was an abusive asshole to his wife and his kid.  Unfortunately, his kid had that perma-high look; the dad would smoke weed with his kid right there, scream and swear at the kid (calling him names and whatnot), and we would sometimes hear commotions through the wall (we were in an apartment) that really concerned me.  Oh, and they would go out riding bikes without any helmets (illegal for anyone under 18 to bike without a helmet) and the dad would have a beer in his hand.  I called CAS multiple times and to my knowledge nothing has been done (maybe they did the "counselling" or whatever but the kid is still with them).

stefuhknee

I mostly agree with PP's about this.

If your friend is truly concerned then she could either try and be a positive outlet for both the kids and the parents but if she believes the abuse warrants further action she should make an anonymous phone call to CPS and hopefully they will follow up with an investigation.

I'm on the fence about speaking to the parent(s) about the issue directly. If she decides to pull them aside she should be prepared for backlash. No parent wants to hear that they aren't being a "good" parent from someone else or hear that they shouldn't speak to their children in a specific way. I've seen parents become very defensive over other aspects of parenthood that are trivial in comparison.

As a parent, I wouldn't want someone else, (family or friend) telling me how to discipline or interact with my child.

ShellD13

I agree verbal abuse is nothing to mess with but you are also going on the account of another individual not having witnessed it yourself.  Here are the things I know - I was verbally/emotionally abused by my grandparents and other family members that I lived with after my mom died.  I am VERY sensitive to how kids are treated.  Kids can absolutely try every last nerve in a parent's & stepparent's body.  Third, I have only raised my voice with my stepkids three times over the past 4 years along the lines of "CUT IT OUT BOTH OF YOU!" when they had been sniping at each other for 20 minutes straight.  And I have witnessed conversations between my stepkids and their mom (who I don't care for) and I can tell you flat out she never raised her voice or anything that I would consider inappropriate (and I will repeat I don't like her as a person) yet I witnessed the conversation and then I hear one of the kids tell the story in their own words and its like Mom was yelling at the top of her lungs and it was broadcast over the airwaves.  If you haven't witnessed it it is VERY HARD to determine what is truly going on...

If you have witnessed it that is a whole other matter.

But I do like the PP's suggestions to entertain the kids/be a safe harbor for them and try to alleviate some of the parent's stress.  If they truly are abusive, if she says anything they will most likely alienate your friend and then she won't have ANY access to the kids to know when the parents are crossing the line to an actionable issue with CPS.

Maggie0829

Sorry but I would not be happy if someone decided to talk to me about how I speak to my child.  All your friend is seeing is snippets of a parent, child interaction and from there is making assumptions. What may seem like minor things to her could be major things to the parent.  She has no right or place to say anything to the parent.  If she is that concerned about the possible verbal abuse then she should call CPS because that is why they exist.  But for her to say anything to the parent is stepping way over the line, especially if she is not fully knowledgable about the day to day on goings with the family.

Jen4948

For me it depends. If I see something extreme, like the kids had clammed up completely or seemed really, really scared of their parents, or signs of physical abuse, then I'd report it.

I don't think I would otherwise speak up directly to the parents, though. It's just not my place, and I'm not a trained counselor. And it would probably not help the kids if they did.

ashley8918

Maggie0829 said:

Sorry but I would not be happy if someone decided to talk to me about how I speak to my child.  All your friend is seeing is snippets of a parent, child interaction and from there is making assumptions. What may seem like minor things to her could be major things to the parent.  She has no right or place to say anything to the parent.  If she is that concerned about the possible verbal abuse then she should call CPS because that is why they exist.  But for her to say anything to the parent is stepping way over the line, especially if she is not fully knowledgable about the day to day on goings with the family.

Exactly. How I speak to my children is nobody else's business, unless it is ACTUAL abuse (you say "bordering on abuse", which to me is a no - not abuse). In that case, go ahead and call CPS. Otherwise, step off.

FiancB

My sister is pretty hard on her adopted son. Nothing I would consider abusive, but way harder on him than her bio kids. To be fair, he's more difficult to handle with some issues with impulse control and ADHD and such, but it makes me uncomfortable and it's pretty noticeable. H has commented on it as well. 

With something like that, ultimately I don't think it's really my business. I'm not with the kid 24/7 so maybe that's the most effective thing for him. No parent is perfect. I do like to present myself as a safe and nonjudgemental person, and when he's older if he'd ever like to come live with me if things go south at home, he can certainly do so. 

IDK. My dad could be pretty awful to me sometimes, but never anything reportable, not even close. I think someone trying to tell him to knock it off would've just made things worse. It just wasn't necessary. I'm glad I moved out, but I did live just fine until then. It's kind of hard to know what advice to give without a more detailed description, but from what it sounds like I'd lean toward it most likely being pretty minor and nothing good would come of interfering.

My best friend's mom flies off the handle sometimes. Normally a very sweet woman, but if you didn't know her and ran into her during one of her rants you would probably think she should have her kids taken away and she should be in a strait jacket. In reality and in context though, they are a very loving family and all get along great 99% of the time. I'd give my left tit to trade parents with my friend. Some people just yell. 

hellosweetie1015

My first instinct would be 100% be someone the kids can trust. If she sees the family often, make it a point to interact with the kids, show them love and care and thoughtfulness. If there's anything truly untoward going on, then a safe harbor will be one of the many things they will need. I would probably think about going to CPS if it truly disturbed me, and/or if it were to occur every time I saw them - again, if she sees the family more often than just at Christmas. I don't think I'd say something to the parents. I know no parent wants to be told their parenting isn't right - you're (general, not specific) not the parent of that child, and I would say it's likely you don't interact with that child often enough to see a true picture of that kid's specific tics. You don't know what works and what doesn't for that child. 

That being said - I would ABSOLUTELY think very long and hard about the CPS system I'm calling though. In my area, I'm very concerned about their true efficacy and their commitment to actually helping the children they interact with. Do your research, try to talk to a family lawyer who works with them regularly, get at least a very basic feel for your CPS department and the caseworker likely to be assigned to your report, if possible. They are NOT all created equal, and calling CPS can be an extremely damaging thing, even if there's not an indication of abuse after the investigation. CPS was called on my family once. There was a result of "no indication", meaning they didn't find anything that concerned them, but I will never ever forget the terror I felt during the process that I wouldn't ever see my parents again.

I will say that my personal perception of discipline would factor pretty heavily into my thoughts regarding the situation.

bethsmiles

My mom was awful while I was growing up. She would scream at me and my brother and we were terrified of her. She was a miserable person and made sure everyone around her was miserable as well. I still have anxiety when I visit my parents even though it's been years since she screamed at me (she got a lot better after she went through menopause). 

Several people said something to her about it - members of our church, people from school, etc. None of that helped at all. She just got pissed off and cut them out of our lives. If your friend is truly concerned then tell her to call CPS.