NWR: Giving employer notice of resignation - Final update in the saga (I hope!)

JellyBean52513

Hey ladies, once again I am in need of your sage advice... and mostly for the blunt honesty and unbiased opinions that I could really use. Cliff notes: I'm finally ready to quit my job. Given everything that my boss has put me through, including the 51 hours of overtime + several hours of "mandatory meetings" that I haven't been paid for, how generous should I be with giving my notice?

As most of you know, I really dislike my job, particularly because my bosses make it a living hell. For purposes of this E board, y'all know my boss as the one who refused to invite any SOs that weren't already married, and even then you weren't invited with your spouse if she hates your spouse. She's the one who had a dual-plated entree of stuffed lobster tail and filet mignon at a yacht club and only had a cash bar but cited budget issues as one of the reasons why not to invite SOs. She's the one who made nasty remarks about me drinking at her shower, claiming I "only drank because it was free." Basically, she's horrible.

I'm finally getting the balls up to finally leave this place. It's time for me to transition to the legal field anyway, being in law school, and I can make better money as a paralegal than I can where I'm at right now. I told her and her mom (the owner) this, and they said to me: "we support you in your career endeavors, so please support us while we try to find someone to replace you."

At first, I thought this was the right thing to do. I hated to be the type of person to up and leave them deserted with no coverage, so I agreed. The problem is, they haven't found anybody. In fact, they've hired and lost SIX people! None of them stayed longer than 3 weeks, and it's mostly because my boss scares them all away! They tell me while we're training that they think she hates them, they feel like they aren't doing anything right, and of course I can't throw her under the buss and say "That's just how she is, don't take it personal," but that's the reason! I even had a client tell me that the reason she'll never come back to our business is because of how rude and nasty my boss is. In fact, clients and other employees tell me all the time that they're surprised "they've kept me around for this long" and that every other person in my position ends of quitting because of how my boss is. Shit, I'm ready to do it right now myself!

We just hired two new candidates for this position, and at first I thought that I should stay long enough to train them (1.5-2months) because it would be the right thing to do. Now I'm wondering, when does "doing the right thing" stop and being a doormat begin? Why do I feel like I owe them my continued time and effort to train their new employees when they've treated me like shit, denied me 51 hours of overtime pay, insulted me, and completely taken advantage of me by having me work 9-5 on my day off and not paying me for it (which I didn't realize until I got my paycheck, 2 weeks after the fact)? I plan to file a complaint with the Atty General's office over my overtime pay, but I know once I pursue this issue it will DEFINITELY mark the end of my time there. I keep feeling guilty at the thought of just finding a new job and giving them 2 weeks' notice, but I don't want to feel guilty towards people who have done me so wrong when I've done nothing but help their business. If you took the time to read all of this, thank you. WWYD?

natswild

@JellyBean52513, I would cut my losses and leave.  It's very likely that they will just keep stringing you along, hiring and firing people as long as they have you there.  As you know what they are pulling is VERY illegal, it's extremely obnoxious.  Good luck with leaving, finding a new job, and raking these so-and-sos over the coals!

LondonLisa

If you are filing a grievance with them, why are you worried about what they think? They are going to fly off the handle no matter what. But what I would do now is start to download and print out ALL emails that confirm that you were to be paid for certain dates, anything in writing confirming that you were to be paid overtime etc. Those things have a great way of going missing once a grievance is filed. 

Why do you feel guilty? What do you owe them? This is a commercial transaction, they are paying you for your services (which apparently they are not). Would you feel guilty if you returned an unworn skirt to Armani that had a giant tear in it? They are not compensating you for your time and you need to move on. Especially if you are entering the legal field, you need to start valuing your time or else you are going to end up with giving 20 hours of free advice and only 1 billable hour to very upset partners. This is a habit you really need to start getting into now. Your time is worth X amount and anyone that doesn't value that should be shut down very quick.

You should give your notice in writing (even if over email) and say something like

" To further our discussion on DATE, I am resigning my post as X and Y company. My last day in the office will be on Z date".

Then stick to it. I would give them 2 weeks. Offer to write up a 1-2 page document outlining instructions for your replacement and some handover notes of key responsibilities. Do you have a contract with them? Does it state what your notice period is in an employee handbook? Remember, get copies of EVERYTHING, also get copies confirming that they have made several new hires (this proves that the company isn't in dire straits) and also try to find the names and contact information of the people that left (they maybe had similar problems with not being paid). 

It sounds like you told these people that you were leaving over a month ago. They really are just taking the piss now. Don't let them guilt you into it. You have another commitment that starts in 2 weeks. Even if that commitment is full time job hunting. 

Start sending out CVs and applying for jobs now! Women often have a problem with internalising their work and feeling that their companies are worth investing care and effort. There is a difference between doing a good job and letting a company take advantage of "caring too much". 

Think about it this way, do you think this nutty woman would lose any sleep about telling you to pack up your desk and leave right now? Of course not, I bet she wouldn't even bat an eyelid. 

JellyBean52513

You're both completely right, and @LondonLisa your questions are what my friends and my SO keep asking me: why do I feel any emotional investment in a company that is run by people who would make the best decision for them in a heartbeat if that meant kicking me out on my ass without notice. I guess it's because the atmosphere of the company is so close-knit--only 17 employees--it feels more personal to just up and leave when I know they need the coverage for my position.

However, what you said here: "Especially if you are entering the legal field, you need to start valuing your time or else you are going to end up with giving 20 hours of free advice and only 1 billable hour to very upset partners. This is a habit you really need to start getting into now. Your time is worth X amount and anyone that doesn't value that should be shut down very quick." really means everything right now. I so appreciate your insight about this, because it's something that I hadn't even brought myself to acknowledge or consider. I know my time is valuable, and I know my contributions are valuable. They really don't deserve my time and effort any further. I would rather spend my work day in an environment that is relevant to my field, where my time and effort is going to be appreciated (and fairly compensated!)

I also have every single paystub from my time with this place, which show hours worked and clearly no overtime paid. I made sure to keep very consistent records of everything, and I when I initiate this conversation about my overtime with them, it will be over text (that is the most common method of communication between everybody at my job) so that I can get the entire exchange in writing to print out if necessary.

LondonLisa

I'm really glad to hear that. However, just because it is close nit, doesn't mean that it is a family. I think you really need to start working on work/life balance and workplace boundaries. I cannot believe that you put up with this. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but they are doing this because you are being a bit of a doormat. They know you aren't going to stand up for yourself, so why would they act otherwise? People treat you the way you demand to be treated. 

But you say that you are worried about leaving them without coverage. You aren't leaving them without coverage. You gave them fair warning. And you are giving them 2 more weeks of notice. It isn't your fault if they didn't get their act together. If you know a store closes at 6, you aren't going to throw your toys out of the pram and blame the store if you show up at 6:10 to closed doors. You are going to get your act together and show up at 5 next time.

If they can hire 6 people without your replacement, it cannot be a top priority for them. They have made it clear that getting a replacement isn't that big of a deal, so don't feel bad for calling them on it.

Give notice today (no more than 2 weeks). This company is 100% taking advantage of you. 

MobKaz

LondonLisa said:

If you are filing a grievance with them, why are you worried about what they think? They are going to fly off the handle no matter what. But what I would do now is start to download and print out ALL emails that confirm that you were to be paid for certain dates, anything in writing confirming that you were to be paid overtime etc. Those things have a great way of going missing once a grievance is filed. 

Why do you feel guilty? What do you owe them? This is a commercial transaction, they are paying you for your services (which apparently they are not). Would you feel guilty if you returned an unworn skirt to Armani that had a giant tear in it? They are not compensating you for your time and you need to move on. Especially if you are entering the legal field, you need to start valuing your time or else you are going to end up with giving 20 hours of free advice and only 1 billable hour to very upset partners. This is a habit you really need to start getting into now. Your time is worth X amount and anyone that doesn't value that should be shut down very quick.

You should give your notice in writing (even if over email) and say something like

" To further our discussion on DATE, I am resigning my post as X and Y company. My last day in the office will be on Z date".

Then stick to it. I would give them 2 weeks. Offer to write up a 1-2 page document outlining instructions for your replacement and some handover notes of key responsibilities. Do you have a contract with them? Does it state what your notice period is in an employee handbook? Remember, get copies of EVERYTHING, also get copies confirming that they have made several new hires (this proves that the company isn't in dire straits) and also try to find the names and contact information of the people that left (they maybe had similar problems with not being paid). 

It sounds like you told these people that you were leaving over a month ago. They really are just taking the piss now. Don't let them guilt you into it. You have another commitment that starts in 2 weeks. Even if that commitment is full time job hunting. 

Start sending out CVs and applying for jobs now! Women often have a problem with internalising their work and feeling that their companies are worth investing care and effort. There is a difference between doing a good job and letting a company take advantage of "caring too much". 

Think about it this way, do you think this nutty woman would lose any sleep about telling you to pack up your desk and leave right now? Of course not, I bet she wouldn't even bat an eyelid. 

I would also add that prior to submitting your letter, I would quietly clear out anything and everything you want to take with you. Once they realize you are serious about leaving on a specific date, they may tell you "today" is your last day just to keep the lead in all things obnoxious and egocentric.

theartistformerlyknownas

Get the hell out of there.

AddieCake

You have done more than enough. Adios, assholes!

kvruns

get outta dodge!  if they have had time to hire 6 people to replace you and you are still there then they assume you're never going to leave.  and I don't blame them for thinking that.  If you still want to be nice, have you written training documents or SOPs for the main duties you do so that even if you can't train someone in person there is something to guide them and you can feel better about that?  I mean honestly most people starting a new job don't get the old person there to train them in person for months at a time, you just kind of figure it out as you go with help from others at the company.  write your resignation, give a hard deadline for when you're leaving and move on.

as for the no overtime thing, are you classified as exempt or non-exempt?  If you are non-exempt then you would be due overtime for hours worked above 40.  It would be a violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and in some states state law too. http://www.dol.gov/whd/  that can help you find a local source if you do need to file a complaint.     

MyNameIsNot

I would give them a firm last day today, verbally and in writing. Next Friday sounds like a good last day.

beachyone15

Girl, get outta there. I'd give two weeks if you want to be generous.

mikenberger

I always give two weeks notice. You never know when you might need those people and their potential reference (If they would give you one at all). Also, I don't want to start a new job feeling like i just screwed the other one over.

But if you're able and willing to burn the bridges and torch the town: burn baby burn.

LD1970

Two weeks has always been the traditional professional standard, and I've always used that, except ONCE when my boss (an attorney - I'm a former lawyer myself & really hope you don't have the experience I've had over the past 20 years with douchebag lawyers/employers) told me to KILL MY DOG because she was "defective" (for being sick).  I walked out the same day & never looked back.

thespeshulestsnowflake

LD1970 said:

Two weeks has always been the traditional professional standard, and I've always used that, except ONCE when my boss (an attorney - I'm a former lawyer myself & really hope you don't have the experience I've had over the past 20 years with douchebag lawyers/employers) told me to KILL MY DOG because she was "defective" (for being sick).  I walked out the same day & never looked back.

What the ever-loving fuck?!?!?! I would have done the same thing.

southernbelle0915

I get that they're assholes, but I would simply not burn professional bridges. I would submit a resignation letter (to your manager w/ CC to HR) giving 2 weeks notice. That's very standard. I wouldn't even mention their "give us time to replace you" thing. 

You're TELLING them you're quitting, not asking. And you're telling them when it's going to happen, giving a specific date as your last working day. If you expect anything per their policies (like PTO payout or whatever), state that in the letter and reference the policy. Print all policies for your own records in case they try to screw you. 

LD1970

thespeshulestsnowflake said:

LD1970 said:

Two weeks has always been the traditional professional standard, and I've always used that, except ONCE when my boss (an attorney - I'm a former lawyer myself & really hope you don't have the experience I've had over the past 20 years with douchebag lawyers/employers) told me to KILL MY DOG because she was "defective" (for being sick).  I walked out the same day & never looked back.

What the ever-loving fuck?!?!?! I would have done the same thing.

Yeeeeeaaaah... I also said to him, "Well, I think *you're* defective.  Should we kill you?"

One bridge I really didn't mind burning.

AddieCake

I agree to give them 2 weeks notice from this point. But don't keep hanging around while they find someone and worry about training them. 

teddygirl9

Just give two weeks written notice. If they ask you to stay longer you just decline and say that you have other obligations/aren't able to.

lyndausvi

Stop being a doormat.    There is nothing wrong with helping them out on finding a new person. Especially when you do not have a new job to report to.  But enough is enough.   

I've given 2 places more than 2 weeks.  I decided in Aug to move to the islands.   I had something in Sept I needed to attend before moving.  I was honest with my boss and said my last day would be 'x' day which was in 6 weeks.   My end date came with no replacement.  Oh well. 

Another time I gave 2 weeks.  That fell around a special event at the place.  They asked if I could stay 2 more weeks.  I agreed.   Again I had a specific end date.  Not some opened-ended "till we find and train some one" crap.  Again, my date arrived with no replacement.  NOT MY PROBLEM.

Time to go in and setup an actual end date.  At this point 2 weeks is more than reasonable.  But if you want to push it to 3 weeks.  Fine, you do not have another job to report to so the extra money might be nice.  But you have to tell them "y" date is your last day.   You are not ASKING you are telling.   

GL

climbingsingle

Girl, get out of there! Draft a letter now telling them you're leaving in two weeks. And then in two weeks, leave and don't look back. You've been more than generous with these people. 

levioosa

Everything Londonlisa said.  You aren't leaving them high and dry; you have given them ample opportunities to utilize you in training someone new.  It's not your fault they're so shitty they can't hold on to a decent employee for more than a few weeks.  They are treating you like a doormat because they have learned that they can treat you like one.  Professionally submit your two weeks notice with any pay you expect to receive (great point, southernbelle) and then adios the fuck out of there in two weeks. 

JellyBean52513

Sorry I haven't responded, I just now sat down to take my lunch break. Can I just say THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your support and words of encouragement. I've been at work practically tingling with anxiety over how to undertake this next step but you're all 100% right: enough is enough.

While at work today I went through every. single. weekly timesheet since I've been there and printed out all the ones that reflect me working overtime. I plan to text my boss this evening about the overtime. I'm simply going to say, "I noticed in our new employee handbook there's a section about overtime pay. Why haven't I been paid overtime?" and see where it goes from there. I want to do it this way because 1. I know this conversation will be the perfect opening to giving my two weeks' notice, and 2. I want the conversation concerning my overtime to be in text so I can print it out if I need to pursue a claim against the business. 

I'm nervous as hell, the last time I up and quit a job on short notice I was unemployed for a few months and it was a living hell, but I have funds to carry me through a couple months if necessary while I job-hunt. I'm always asking my grandma to give me a sign as to what I should do about certain things, and just this morning I saw a post on Instagram that says "Do something today that your future self will thank you for." Point taken!

theartistformerlyknownas

JellyBean52513 said:

Sorry I haven't responded, I just now sat down to take my lunch break. Can I just say THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your support and words of encouragement. I've been at work practically tingling with anxiety over how to undertake this next step but you're all 100% right: enough is enough.

While at work today I went through every. single. weekly timesheet since I've been there and printed out all the ones that reflect me working overtime. I plan to text my boss this evening about the overtime. I'm simply going to say, "I noticed in our new employee handbook there's a section about overtime pay. Why haven't I been paid overtime?" and see where it goes from there. I want to do it this way because 1. I know this conversation will be the perfect opening to giving my two weeks' notice, and 2. I want the conversation concerning my overtime to be in text so I can print it out if I need to pursue a claim against the business. 

I'm nervous as hell, the last time I up and quit a job on short notice I was unemployed for a few months and it was a living hell, but I have funds to carry me through a couple months if necessary while I job-hunt. I'm always asking my grandma to give me a sign as to what I should do about certain things, and just this morning I saw a post on Instagram that says "Do something today that your future self will thank you for." Point taken!

This is all great, but as to the bolded - you don't need a perfect opening, and still might not get one. If it doesn't present itself, don't sit around waiting for it. It's good to try to get that answer before you actually submit it and potentially piss them off, but they're not entitled to more than 2 weeks' notice and you've already told them you'd be leaving imminently! That's your opening - TAKE IT, stand firm, and move on.

rcher912

Good luck with the conversation, I do hope you get the overtime you deserve!!

Although I want to echo something another poster said - be very prepared for them to just tell you to take this as your last day, or this Friday, or something else much earlier than the date you propose. These people sound really vindictive.

OliveOilsMom

I wouldn't even ask about the overtime as the opening of a conversation.  Make sure you have all of your documents printed out, including the part in the employee handbook about overtime.  Draft an email and blind copy yourself on it, so you have a record of it being received.  Outline all that is owed to you and what day your last day will be.  If you feel the need to text.  Then text your boss that you just sent her an email that you wish for her to read. 

Dear Boss,

Please accept this letter of resignation.  My last day of work will be Feburary 27th.

Please also accept this letter as my formal request for the x hours of overtime I am due as outlined in the emplyee handbook in section y. 

Regards,
JellyBean

southernbelle0915

OliveOilsMom said:

I wouldn't even ask about the overtime as the opening of a conversation.  Make sure you have all of your documents printed out, including the part in the employee handbook about overtime.  Draft an email and blind copy yourself on it, so you have a record of it being received.  Outline all that is owed to you and what day your last day will be.  If you feel the need to text.  Then text your boss that you just sent her an email that you wish for her to read. 

Dear Boss,

Please accept this letter of resignation.  My last day of work will be Feburary 27th.

Please also accept this letter as my formal request for the x hours of overtime I am due as outlined in the emplyee handbook in section y. 

Regards,
JellyBean

This! And make sure you add a formal request for any other pay out you're entitled to. Like PTO pay out, any outstanding expense reports, etc.

I've always added some fluff (sometimes genuine, sometimes not) about how "much I have appreciated the opportunity to work and grow with this company." But that's because I think stroking a professional ego (while still firmly standing your ground) goes a long way.

lyndausvi

southernbelle0915 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

I wouldn't even ask about the overtime as the opening of a conversation.  Make sure you have all of your documents printed out, including the part in the employee handbook about overtime.  Draft an email and blind copy yourself on it, so you have a record of it being received.  Outline all that is owed to you and what day your last day will be.  If you feel the need to text.  Then text your boss that you just sent her an email that you wish for her to read. 

Dear Boss,

Please accept this letter of resignation.  My last day of work will be Feburary 27th.

Please also accept this letter as my formal request for the x hours of overtime I am due as outlined in the emplyee handbook in section y. 

Regards,
JellyBean

This! And make sure you add a formal request for any other pay out you're entitled to. Like PTO pay out, any outstanding expense reports, etc.

I've always added some fluff (sometimes genuine, sometimes not) about how "much I have appreciated the opportunity to work and grow with this company." But that's because I think stroking a professional ego (while still firmly standing your ground) goes a long way.

yep.

I also this is something that needs to be in writing.  Typed up and handed to them would be best.  If not then emailed would be my next choice (or even both).  I would send a read receipt wit you email.  

Text just does not send the correct tone IMO.   I get it's the easiest form of communication at the firm, but that really isn't appropriate.    

JellyBean52513

I want to thank you all again for the support, because I DID IT. I put my two weeks notice in today!! Well, technically, two and a half weeks, because I want to finish out that last work week so I get a full final paycheck mid-March. As you all predicted, the owner DID ask me to stay until the end of March, but I told her I simply can't because I have oral arguments during the last two weeks of March and that takes precedent over making sure their asses are covered because that's just not my problem anymore. 

When my boss (the owner's daughter) came in today, she was in SUCH a nasty mood, it really just sealed the deal before I went to the office to talk to her mom. I think she was pissy because I texted her this morning and asked her why I haven't been paid my overtime and she said "We'll have to go back and see what weeks you worked more than 40 hours." I told her to save her time because I'd already done that and I'll give her the list tomorrow.

I can't even begin to tell you what a relief it is to know that I will be done with this hell-hole forever. I was very blunt with them and I told them that while I really did want to honor my commitment to stay until they found a replacement, that I simply can't wait anymore because if these 2 new hires don't work out, I'm back to square one and I'm stuck there indefinitely again. So, that's it. The band-aid has been ripped off. THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!

ETA: The owner told me that when I come in tomorrow she will have a form for me to fill out to officially give my resignation, but I'm going to type something up myself as you all suggested and make sure it includes mention of giving me my overtime pay. I refuse to let them screw me out of another dime.

levioosa

JellyBean52513 said:

I want to thank you all again for the support, because I DID IT. I put my two weeks notice in today!! Well, technically, two and a half weeks, because I want to finish out that last work week so I get a full final paycheck mid-March. As you all predicted, the owner DID ask me to stay until the end of March, but I told her I simply can't because I have oral arguments during the last two weeks of March and that takes precedent over making sure their asses are covered because that's just not my problem anymore. 

When my boss (the owner's daughter) came in today, she was in SUCH a nasty mood, it really just sealed the deal before I went to the office to talk to her mom. I think she was pissy because I texted her this morning and asked her why I haven't been paid my overtime and she said "We'll have to go back and see what weeks you worked more than 40 hours." I told her to save her time because I'd already done that and I'll give her the list tomorrow.

I can't even begin to tell you what a relief it is to know that I will be done with this hell-hole forever. I was very blunt with them and I told them that while I really did want to honor my commitment to stay until they found a replacement, that I simply can't wait anymore because if these 2 new hires don't work out, I'm back to square one and I'm stuck there indefinitely again. So, that's it. The band-aid has been ripped off. THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!

Yay!!!! Margaritas all around! It's time to celebrate!

southernbelle0915

JellyBean52513

Sooooo happy for you! Here's to you!

theartistformerlyknownas

Good job JellyBean!