Invitation HELP!!!

flantastic

tfmrserwin said:

LtPowers said:

They do have to tell you who they are bringing by a certain date. The date your RSVPs are due. Remember, some people may not even come to the wedding, so when you are asking them who they want to bring, they may not even come at all.

You are making this difficult. 

You are acting as if I'm making these rules up out of whole cloth. I'm not. I'm simply reporting what one of the most respected and quoted etiquette experts says on the topic.

I can elaborate on her advice as best as I can based on what else I've read, but I can't answer every possible objection as if I myself embodied Miss Manners.

The 'difficulty' here is that it is rude to invite someone impersonally to a personal event such as a wedding. The fact that it's sometimes inconvenient or awkward to obtain these names doesn't change that basic pronouncement. I understand that a lot of folks here probably used the "and guest" method and thus have a vested interest in defending its propriety, but at least one major etiquette expert has come out strongly against the practice, and has given two excellent reasons for it.

------ ETF Boxes ------

I have a single BM who is getting a +1, but she does not yet know who she will be bringing. Am I to force her to decide who her +1 will be by the time the invitations go out? That, to me, seems far more awkward and inconvenient (for her and me) than writing "and guest" on the invitation.

No, @tfmrserwin, you're missing the point. You're not supposed to write "and guest," EVER. THAT'S THE RULE. Because it's the rule, you're supposed to create the awkwardness and inconvenience with your BM where there would otherwise not have been any, and create difficulties instead of comfort for your guest, because that's what must be done to be in compliance with the rule. You are to force her to decide before invites go out, or else she's a lousy guest who doesn't deserve a plus one because she can't manage to follow the rule either.

Meanwhile, her plus one never sees the invitation envelope and is blissfully unaware that his or her name was not written there. Or, by virtue of the plus one invitation, "Hey, I'm going to a wedding in a few weeks, and would love some company," they know that their invitation was written on there as "and guest" and they give no shits because they understand that they're only going to support your BM as a friend or date.

madamerwin

flantastic said: tfmrserwin said: LtPowers said:They do have to tell you who they are bringing by a certain date. The date your RSVPs are due. Remember, some people may not even come to the wedding, so when you are asking them who they want to bring, they may not even come at all.
You are making this difficult. 


You are acting as if I'm making these rules up out of whole cloth. I'm not. I'm simply reporting what one of the most respected and quoted etiquette experts says on the topic.
I can elaborate on her advice as best as I can based on what else I've read, but I can't answer every possible objection as if I myself embodied Miss Manners.
The 'difficulty' here is that it is rude to invite someone impersonally to a personal event such as a wedding. The fact that it's sometimes inconvenient or awkward to obtain these names doesn't change that basic pronouncement. I understand that a lot of folks here probably used the "and guest" method and thus have a vested interest in defending its propriety, but at least one major etiquette expert has come out strongly against the practice, and has given two excellent reasons for it.


------ ETF Boxes ------

I have a single BM who is getting a +1, but she does not yet know who she will be bringing. Am I to force her to decide who her +1 will be by the time the invitations go out? That, to me, seems far more awkward and inconvenient (for her and me) than writing "and guest" on the invitation.

No, @tfmrserwin, you're missing the point. You're not supposed to write "and guest," EVER. THAT'S THE RULE. Because it's the rule, you're supposed to create the awkwardness and inconvenience with your BM where there would otherwise not have been any, and create difficulties instead of comfort for your guest, because that's what must be done to be in compliance with the rule. You are to force her to decide before invites go out, or else she's a lousy guest who doesn't deserve a plus one because she can't manage to follow the rule either. Meanwhile, her plus one never sees the invitation envelope and is blissfully unaware that his or her name was not written there. Or, by virtue of the plus one invitation, "Hey, I'm going to a wedding in a few weeks, and would love some company," they know that their invitation was written on there as "and guest" and they give no shits because they understand that they're only going to support your BM as a friend or date.

----ETF Boxes Again ---------------

Well then @flantastic, hold on to your hat... Because I am not even writing "and Guest"! I'm addressing it to her only. She knows she may bring a date if she wishes. She knows this because I talk to her a lot. And I have told her often she can bring someone if she wants. She just needs to let me know (or write it on the RSVP) when she decides. I AM BREAKING ALL OF THE RULES!

flantastic

tfmrserwin said:

flantastic said:

tfmrserwin said:

LtPowers said:

They do have to tell you who they are bringing by a certain date. The date your RSVPs are due. Remember, some people may not even come to the wedding, so when you are asking them who they want to bring, they may not even come at all.

You are making this difficult. 

You are acting as if I'm making these rules up out of whole cloth. I'm not. I'm simply reporting what one of the most respected and quoted etiquette experts says on the topic.

I can elaborate on her advice as best as I can based on what else I've read, but I can't answer every possible objection as if I myself embodied Miss Manners.

The 'difficulty' here is that it is rude to invite someone impersonally to a personal event such as a wedding. The fact that it's sometimes inconvenient or awkward to obtain these names doesn't change that basic pronouncement. I understand that a lot of folks here probably used the "and guest" method and thus have a vested interest in defending its propriety, but at least one major etiquette expert has come out strongly against the practice, and has given two excellent reasons for it.

------ ETF Boxes ------

I have a single BM who is getting a +1, but she does not yet know who she will be bringing. Am I to force her to decide who her +1 will be by the time the invitations go out? That, to me, seems far more awkward and inconvenient (for her and me) than writing "and guest" on the invitation.

No, @tfmrserwin, you're missing the point. You're not supposed to write "and guest," EVER. THAT'S THE RULE. Because it's the rule, you're supposed to create the awkwardness and inconvenience with your BM where there would otherwise not have been any, and create difficulties instead of comfort for your guest, because that's what must be done to be in compliance with the rule. You are to force her to decide before invites go out, or else she's a lousy guest who doesn't deserve a plus one because she can't manage to follow the rule either.

Meanwhile, her plus one never sees the invitation envelope and is blissfully unaware that his or her name was not written there. Or, by virtue of the plus one invitation, "Hey, I'm going to a wedding in a few weeks, and would love some company," they know that their invitation was written on there as "and guest" and they give no shits because they understand that they're only going to support your BM as a friend or date.

----ETF Boxes Again ---------------

Well then @flantastic, hold on to your hat... Because I am not even writing "and Guest"! I'm addressing it to her only. She knows she may bring a date if she wishes. She knows this because I talk to her a lot. And I have told her often she can bring someone if she wants. She just needs to let me know (or write it on the RSVP) when she decides. I AM BREAKING ALL OF THE RULES!

DarthV8r

WAT!!! And guests? I don't want STRANGERS at my wedding.



Just fucking with you.

LtPowers

flantastic said:

LtPowers said:

huskypuppy14 said:

They do have to tell you who they are bringing by a certain date. The date your RSVPs are due. Remember, some people may not even come to the wedding, so when you are asking them who they want to bring, they may not even come at all.

You are making this difficult. 

You are acting as if I'm making these rules up out of whole cloth. I'm not. I'm simply reporting what one of the most respected and quoted etiquette experts says on the topic.

I can elaborate on her advice as best as I can based on what else I've read, but I can't answer every possible objection as if I myself embodied Miss Manners.

The 'difficulty' here is that it is rude to invite someone impersonally to a personal event such as a wedding. The fact that it's sometimes inconvenient or awkward to obtain these names doesn't change that basic pronouncement. I understand that a lot of folks here probably used the "and guest" method and thus have a vested interest in defending its propriety, but at least one major etiquette expert has come out strongly against the practice, and has given two excellent reasons for it.

I really like giving people the dignity of using their own name. I understand the significance of it.

I also did not invite anyone with a true plus one, and so did not use the "and guest" phrasing.

I maintain that no one who is the chosen plus one of the "named guest" on an invite will be offended by not having their own name on the invitation. They know how it works, and rarely if ever see the actual invitation envelope.

I don't think it's too much hassle to say, before invitations go out, "Hey, I'm planning to give you a guest - is there anyone you know right now that you want to bring? If so, I'll write their name on the invite. If you don't know right now, though, I'll just write 'and guest' and you can fill in their name on the RSVP card." There's a courtesy in using the guest's name where possible, and you make them a lovely escort card with their own name, but typically there's a greater courtesy in allowing your "main" guest some more flexibility in finding a companion.

We know you're not making this up, but true common sense disagrees both with you and your source.

I appreciate the response. I disagree with you that it's impossible for an "and guest" to be offended by being so invited, but I can understand that it's rare.

I suppose in some cases it's impossible to be courteous to everyone. And it seems we all have different priorities regarding which courtesy to favor. Regardless, can't we at least agree to limit "and Guest" as much as possible? These edge cases everyone is putting up as counterexamples to Miss Manners' advice strike me as somewhat contrived -- not to say they never happen, but surely not so often as to negate the general rule against "and Guest"?

Isn't it better to say that one should do whatever one can to learn the name of one's invitees, so that they may be invited personally by name, and only resort to "and Guest" under extenuating circumstances?

[Deleted User]

LtPowers said:

LtPowers said:

huskypuppy14 said:

They do have to tell you who they are bringing by a certain date. The date your RSVPs are due. Remember, some people may not even come to the wedding, so when you are asking them who they want to bring, they may not even come at all.

You are making this difficult. 

You are acting as if I'm making these rules up out of whole cloth. I'm not. I'm simply reporting what one of the most respected and quoted etiquette experts says on the topic.

I can elaborate on her advice as best as I can based on what else I've read, but I can't answer every possible objection as if I myself embodied Miss Manners.

The 'difficulty' here is that it is rude to invite someone impersonally to a personal event such as a wedding. The fact that it's sometimes inconvenient or awkward to obtain these names doesn't change that basic pronouncement. I understand that a lot of folks here probably used the "and guest" method and thus have a vested interest in defending its propriety, but at least one major etiquette expert has come out strongly against the practice, and has given two excellent reasons for it.

I really like giving people the dignity of using their own name. I understand the significance of it.

I also did not invite anyone with a true plus one, and so did not use the "and guest" phrasing.

I maintain that no one who is the chosen plus one of the "named guest" on an invite will be offended by not having their own name on the invitation. They know how it works, and rarely if ever see the actual invitation envelope.

I don't think it's too much hassle to say, before invitations go out, "Hey, I'm planning to give you a guest - is there anyone you know right now that you want to bring? If so, I'll write their name on the invite. If you don't know right now, though, I'll just write 'and guest' and you can fill in their name on the RSVP card." There's a courtesy in using the guest's name where possible, and you make them a lovely escort card with their own name, but typically there's a greater courtesy in allowing your "main" guest some more flexibility in finding a companion.

We know you're not making this up, but true common sense disagrees both with you and your source.

I appreciate the response. I disagree with you that it's impossible for an "and guest" to be offended by being so invited, but I can understand that it's rare.

I suppose in some cases it's impossible to be courteous to everyone. And it seems we all have different priorities regarding which courtesy to favor. Regardless, can't we at least agree to limit "and Guest" as much as possible? These edge cases everyone is putting up as counterexamples to Miss Manners' advice strike me as somewhat contrived -- not to say they never happen, but surely not so often as to negate the general rule against "and Guest"?

Isn't it better to say that one should do whatever one can to learn the name of one's invitees, so that they may be invited personally by name, and only resort to "and Guest" under extenuating circumstances?

I will learn the names of my invitees after they have been invited by my guest.  When the person I invite RSVPs for themselves and 'Joe Smith', I will then have learned the name of my invitee.  How wonderful!  Now I can refer to Joe by name when I see him attending my wedding with my friend Maggie, I can properly refer to him on his escort card, and I can thank him for attending my wedding.