2nd Wedding? Etiquette Question

[Deleted User]

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

[Deleted User]

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

STARMOON44

Signing a new license feels like fraud. She should figure out how to get her real marriage cert.

mikenberger

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

awebb04 said:

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

Why does she think she isn't married? If she followed the proper protocol of her country of marriage, then she's married. She shouldn't sign new papers if she's married. She should continue to track down her papers.

What she can have is a celebration of marriage. Which is basically just a big party without all the wedding trappings (cutting the cake, vow ceremony, first dance etc) but I wouldn't act like they're not married (continuing with a vow ceremony etc) because somewhere on this planet they are married.

[Deleted User]

mikenberger said:

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

awebb04 said:

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

Why does she think she isn't married? If she followed the proper protocol of her county of marriage, then she's married. She shouldn't sign new papers if she's married. She should continue to track down her papers.

What she can have is a celebration of marriage. Which is basically just a big party without all the wedding trappings (cutting the cake, vow ceremony, first dance etc) but I wouldn't act like they're not married (continuing with a vow ceremony etc) because somewhere on this planet they are married.

She knows that she is married, but it is looking more and more that it would be easier to sign a marriage license in the states because of the issues she is having trying to get a copy of the original marriage certificate. She is not considered married in the states. They have been working on this for a month, and I think I can understand her frustration.

redoryx

awebb04 said:

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

awebb04 said:

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

Why does she think she isn't married? If she followed the proper protocol of her county of marriage, then she's married. She shouldn't sign new papers if she's married. She should continue to track down her papers.

What she can have is a celebration of marriage. Which is basically just a big party without all the wedding trappings (cutting the cake, vow ceremony, first dance etc) but I wouldn't act like they're not married (continuing with a vow ceremony etc) because somewhere on this planet they are married.

She knows that she is married, but it is looking more and more that it would be easier to sign a marriage license in the states because of the issues she is having trying to get a copy of the original marriage certificate. She is not considered married in the states. They have been working on this for a month, and I think I can understand her frustration.


Why is she not considered married in the States? 

mikenberger

awebb04 said:

mikenberger said:

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

awebb04 said:

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

Why does she think she isn't married? If she followed the proper protocol of her county of marriage, then she's married. She shouldn't sign new papers if she's married. She should continue to track down her papers.

What she can have is a celebration of marriage. Which is basically just a big party without all the wedding trappings (cutting the cake, vow ceremony, first dance etc) but I wouldn't act like they're not married (continuing with a vow ceremony etc) because somewhere on this planet they are married.

She knows that she is married, but it is looking more and more that it would be easier to sign a marriage license in the states because of the issues she is having trying to get a copy of the original marriage certificate. She is not considered married in the states. They have been working on this for a month, and I think I can understand her frustration.


Frustrating, yes. No doubt. But that's also why you keep a handle on your important documents. I would've been traveling with my marriage license if I was moving back to the States from abroad. But that's neither here nor there

I would still not do a vow ceremony. She's married. She's gone through the motions. There's no reason why she can't have a big party to celebrate said marriage though.

LondonLisa

It will be a huge legal nightmare if she gets married again: fraud, bigamy, and anything obtained by the benefit of the second "marriage" can be voided (and compensation claimed by the companies): insurance, work benefits etc. She needs to call the country, town, court, church, wherever where she was married and ask about the procedure. Yes, difficult and annoying, however that's what happened when you lose important documents.

[Deleted User]

redoryx said:

awebb04 said:

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

awebb04 said:

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

Why does she think she isn't married? If she followed the proper protocol of her county of marriage, then she's married. She shouldn't sign new papers if she's married. She should continue to track down her papers.

What she can have is a celebration of marriage. Which is basically just a big party without all the wedding trappings (cutting the cake, vow ceremony, first dance etc) but I wouldn't act like they're not married (continuing with a vow ceremony etc) because somewhere on this planet they are married.

She knows that she is married, but it is looking more and more that it would be easier to sign a marriage license in the states because of the issues she is having trying to get a copy of the original marriage certificate. She is not considered married in the states. They have been working on this for a month, and I think I can understand her frustration.


Why is she not considered married in the States? 

Because her paperwork was not filed with the U.S. She was told to bring the documents back to the states and file them when she returned home. Somehow, the document went missing while they were traveling home. When she explained the situation to city hall, she was told that she needed the marriage license, translated into English by a professional, and have it put "on file".

[Deleted User]

LondonLisa said:

It will be a huge legal nightmare if she gets married again: fraud, bigamy, and anything obtained by the benefit of the second "marriage" can be voided (and compensation claimed by the companies): insurance, work benefits etc. She needs to call the country, town, court, church, wherever where she was married and ask about the procedure. Yes, difficult and annoying, however that's what happened when you lose important documents.

Wow! That is crazy. I mean, what happens if the actual city hall has lost the document or can't find it? Even if it is another country from where she currently resides? It just seems crazy that all of these things can happen!

southernbelle0915

This sounds like a load of bologna to me. She can't find her marriage certificate so she wants to have another wedding? How does that even make sense?

Tell her she should pursue the paperwork until she gets it. Otherwise, she should talk to an attorney familiar with local law and figure out next steps.

ETA: when you lose a birth certificate or a diploma, it doesn't make sense to reenact the birth or the graduation....you figure out a way to get the correct paperwork.

JCbride2015

I don't see how a party should be involved with any of this, even if she did really have to have a new ceremony in the US.  If it requires witnesses, take them out to lunch afterwards.

I vote, either find the certificate somehow or call a lawyer if she can't.

lovegood90

 

southernbelle0915 said:

This sounds like a load of bologna to me. She can't find her marriage certificate so she wants to have another wedding? How does that even make sense?

Tell her she should pursue the paperwork until she gets it. Otherwise, she should talk to an attorney familiar with local law and figure out next steps.

ETA: when you lose a birth certificate or a diploma, it doesn't make sense to reenact the birth or the graduation....you figure out a way to get the correct paperwork.

Exactly this- it makes absolutely no sense to reenact something just because your "friend" lost her paperwork? That's also fraud I'm pretty sure...

Also, just because she wishes she could have celebrated with friends and family when she got married abroad doesn't mean she's entitled to a reenactment either- and using the fact that she "lost" her paperwork as another excuse on top of that is so dumb.

redoryx

Yeah, this sounds like someone looking for an excuse to have a PPD and is using the "lost" paperwork as her reasoning. Actually, this is worse than a PPD because the PPD is a fake wedding, there's no legal implications. Your friend is already legally married and now wants to get legally married again to the same man with no divorce in between. That's not how this works.

Losing the documentation doesn't magically make the marriage invalid, it still happened regardless of physical evidence in the form of a marriage license. A marriage license they misplaced. Being an adult means that when you lose an important document like that you suck it and be a grown-up and go through the proper procedures to do whatever you can to find it. You don't throw a party and get a re-do. 

Edited to add: You say she's "bummed" because her friends and family weren't there the first time around. Yeah, well, that's what happens sometimes. She made that choice to get married abroad and she now has to own that choice. 

MyNameIsNot

awebb04 said:

redoryx said:

awebb04 said:

A friend of mine recently came back from living abroad for a year. She and her husband got married while they were gone, but they can't seem to find their marriage certificate, and getting a hold of a new one is proving very difficult, form what I understand. So, she asked me what my opinion was because she knows that she already got married.

I was wondering if it would be okay for me to recommend a vow renewal for her? She was a little bummed that she did not have the people she wanted at her wedding when she was abroad, but their one year anniversary is coming up in five months. They could also resign their marriage paperwork then and keep their same wedding date. Basically, not a full wedding, but maybe a small ceremony for her and family, and friends if she wants. Then a party after?

awebb04 said:

Or any other suggestions? Should she just continue to try and get her paperwork? Should she just sign a new marriage license and call it good?

Why does she think she isn't married? If she followed the proper protocol of her county of marriage, then she's married. She shouldn't sign new papers if she's married. She should continue to track down her papers.

What she can have is a celebration of marriage. Which is basically just a big party without all the wedding trappings (cutting the cake, vow ceremony, first dance etc) but I wouldn't act like they're not married (continuing with a vow ceremony etc) because somewhere on this planet they are married.

She knows that she is married, but it is looking more and more that it would be easier to sign a marriage license in the states because of the issues she is having trying to get a copy of the original marriage certificate. She is not considered married in the states. They have been working on this for a month, and I think I can understand her frustration.

Why is she not considered married in the States? 

Because her paperwork was not filed with the U.S. She was told to bring the documents back to the states and file them when she returned home. Somehow, the document went missing while they were traveling home. When she explained the situation to city hall, she was told that she needed the marriage license, translated into English by a professional, and have it put "on file".


That doesn't sound right. By that logic, any couple who immigrated to the US after getting married would have to do this. They don't. The US recognizes marriages that are recognized by the home country. You don't even need the marriage certificate to get divorced in the US. 

I think your friend is making it up or trying to avoid doing the legwork. If the original was truly lost, there is always a procedure to have a duplicate certificate issued. It's the same process that's used it an original birth certificate is somehow destroyed. (In the US, the state maintains the original and people are issued certified copies. People lose their certified copies all the time, but originals have been destroyed when the Courthouse burns down or something.) 

If she wants to have an anniversary party, that's fine, but it's not a wedding and it shouldn't have anything to do with her missing marriage certificate. 

Maggie0829

I agree with the PP.  This sounds like someone trying to find a way to have a PPD.  I mean in no way shape or form is another wedding or vow renewal necessary when you have lost your marriage certificate.  That doesn't even make any sense.

[Deleted User]

Thanks, I will refrain from recommending this. She was planning a celebration anyways though, so that would be okay? Just a party to celebrate her marriage with her U.S. friends/family? I only thought of the vow renewal because she had been talking about the issues she had. I will recommend that she tries to find a lawyer to talk to, because apparently this may be a bit more complicated than I thought.

[Deleted User]

Also, I remember one of the main reasons that she needs her marriage certificate. To change her last name! I don't know how I forgot about that, but hopefully a lawyer can help her with that!

southernbelle0915

awebb04 said:

Also, I remember one of the main reasons that she needs her marriage certificate. To change her last name! I don't know how I forgot about that, but hopefully a lawyer can help her with that!

Yes they can. You're a mighty good friend for being this involved..

MandyMost

awebb04 said:

LondonLisa said:

It will be a huge legal nightmare if she gets married again: fraud, bigamy, and anything obtained by the benefit of the second "marriage" can be voided (and compensation claimed by the companies): insurance, work benefits etc. She needs to call the country, town, court, church, wherever where she was married and ask about the procedure. Yes, difficult and annoying, however that's what happened when you lose important documents.

Wow! That is crazy. I mean, what happens if the actual city hall has lost the document or can't find it? Even if it is another country from where she currently resides? It just seems crazy that all of these things can happen!

It's really not crazy at all. Once you sign a legal contract it's binding--and marriage is a legal contract. Would it be OK for her to just say "oh hey, I can't find my marriage paperwork, so I never bothered to get divorced, and now I'm going to marry a different guy". NO! Can you imagine that, dealing with the courts when it came down to the rights of a spouse in terms of power of attorney, property, money, custody, etc. An absolute nightmare. Legally it's not any different to try to "legally marry" the same guy again when you're already married. 

Yes, it's difficult dealing with foreign governments, she may even have to go back there in person in order to get it. She may have to get various lawyers involved. But she needs to get whatever paperwork she needs, because she's already married. 

Every action we take has consequences, and we need to face them. She got married abroad--consequences are difficult paperwork, and that her friends and family weren't there. But she made that choice, the ship has sailed. A party is fine--a party is ALWAYS fine. Have as many extravagant parties celebrating as many things as you want! Just don't pretend it's a wedding. I mean, if you want to throw a backyard barbecue in June you throw one--but you don't call it a graduation party unless someone is graduating. 

[Deleted User]

Needing it for a name change makes a lot more sense. But she should try to obtain one from where they originally got married. This way if anything were to come up where it was needed for legal purposes (like in the event of death) and there was someone contesting who the next of kin is, that document will help to clarify that, even if it's from a different country.

Now is it ok to have a "celebration of our marriage/anniversary" party on their anniversary. Heck yes, just skip the formalities of vows, cake etc. Have a party with some great food, great people & some music & party the night away. If she has photos from their wedding, she can do a display with some of the photos.

larrygaga

Lol wtf

ShesSoCold

I know I'm late here but I agree with all the PPs. I lost my birth certificate a few months ago. I didn't just get a new birthdate. I got a new copy. Doesn't sound like rocket science.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for all of the advice! I shot her a text a couple of minutes ago when I got home from work. I suggested that she try for another week or two to get some sort of response from the original office and then try to find a lawyer if she needed. Thanks for everything!

saric83

awebb04 said:

redoryx said:

awebb04 said:

Because her paperwork was not filed with the U.S. She was told to bring the documents back to the states and file them when she returned home. Somehow, the document went missing while they were traveling home. When she explained the situation to city hall, she was told that she needed the marriage license, translated into English by a professional, and have it put "on file".


That doesn't sound right. By that logic, any couple who immigrated to the US after getting married would have to do this. They don't. The US recognizes marriages that are recognized by the home country. You don't even need the marriage certificate to get divorced in the US. 

I think your friend is making it up or trying to avoid doing the legwork. If the original was truly lost, there is always a procedure to have a duplicate certificate issued. It's the same process that's used it an original birth certificate is somehow destroyed. (In the US, the state maintains the original and people are issued certified copies. People lose their certified copies all the time, but originals have been destroyed when the Courthouse burns down or something.) 

If she wants to have an anniversary party, that's fine, but it's not a wedding and it shouldn't have anything to do with her missing marriage certificate. 

Darn box from comment above isn't showing up, so pretend like it did, so my comment starts here.

In order to get my new social security card with married last name, I had to do this with our wedding license from Mexico, and they said to expect it to take a few months (to officially translate and get everything processed).