I'm surprised no one has brought up Baltimore..

Maggie0829

emmaaa said:

@Maggie0829 I was thinking of you and your family yesterday and hoping y'all were doing okay! 

Thanks @emmaaa.  It really was sad to watch.  Just on Sunday I went down to watch the O's play the Red Sox.  It was a gorgeous day out and all was calm.  It was crazy to see that in just 24 hours how everything can change.

ashley8918

Maggie0829 said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

As some who lives near and loves the city of Baltimore the riots both Saturday and yesterday are just very disappointing.  All the peaceful protests that have happened over the past week are so are now a distant memory.  Any good those protests have done have been erased by a group of thugs.

Yesterdays protests were primarily teenagers.  They organized via social media.  Unfortunately they out numbered the police officers which is why things got as bad as they did.  I thought that the police showed amazing restraint in the midst of such chaos.

I will never understand what you gain from destroying your own community.  You still have to live in the area that you just vandalized, looted and burned down.  You are also helping to solidify the stereotype that unfortunately some individuals have of the community.

But seeing the clergy and councilman and other community members stand up to the asses was really nice to see.  It shows that not everyone feels the same or thinks that rioting is a good idea.  That is no way to get your point across.  It was also nice to see people come together this morning to help clean up.

As for Freddie Gray, he got hurt after being put in the police van.  The officers did not strap him in so he got bounced around and when your hands are tied behind your back (and then later your feet) it is difficult to brace yourself on a too bumpy ride.

I also love that Mom in that video.  That is not child abuse.  Put yourself in your shoes.  Imagine seeing your child as part of that group of thugs destroying the city you live in and looting and throwing bricks and other items at the police.  You would do anything to drag your child back home.  A slap upside the head is better then having to visit your child in jail or worse visit your child in the graveyard.

It will be interesting to see how the curfew will work (curfew is from 10pm to 5am for everyone for the rest of the week).  How that will impact businesses.  How well it will be enforced.

As for the mayor I am a bit disappointed in how she handled the riots.  She didn't make any type of public statement until almost 5 hours after the riots started and when she did finally say something she said maybe a handful of sentences and then turned things over to other individuals.  You are the mayor of the city, people want to hear from you and to hear how you are going to help calm the situation and stop the rioting.  Then again this is the first major incidence that she has had to deal with but typically this is the time when you see what your leaders are made of.

Businesses, schools and such are closed.  Tonight's Oriole game has been postponed (probably due to safety concerns and the curfew).  Tomorrows game will be played but will be closed to the public and the weekend games have been moved to Tampa Bay.  There are also planned protests for today and Thursday in the town I live in

Hi, can we stop referring to black people as "thugs"? It is racist as hell. It has racist origins and is, to this day, used almost exclusively to describe young black men.

That is the exact word that our black mayor and other black leaders used to describe the rioters.

Your black mayor and black leaders can say wrong shit too. But, by all means, please continue to perpetuate ignorance and racism.

huskypuppy14

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

As some who lives near and loves the city of Baltimore the riots both Saturday and yesterday are just very disappointing.  All the peaceful protests that have happened over the past week are so are now a distant memory.  Any good those protests have done have been erased by a group of thugs.

Yesterdays protests were primarily teenagers.  They organized via social media.  Unfortunately they out numbered the police officers which is why things got as bad as they did.  I thought that the police showed amazing restraint in the midst of such chaos.

I will never understand what you gain from destroying your own community.  You still have to live in the area that you just vandalized, looted and burned down.  You are also helping to solidify the stereotype that unfortunately some individuals have of the community.

But seeing the clergy and councilman and other community members stand up to the asses was really nice to see.  It shows that not everyone feels the same or thinks that rioting is a good idea.  That is no way to get your point across.  It was also nice to see people come together this morning to help clean up.

As for Freddie Gray, he got hurt after being put in the police van.  The officers did not strap him in so he got bounced around and when your hands are tied behind your back (and then later your feet) it is difficult to brace yourself on a too bumpy ride.

I also love that Mom in that video.  That is not child abuse.  Put yourself in your shoes.  Imagine seeing your child as part of that group of thugs destroying the city you live in and looting and throwing bricks and other items at the police.  You would do anything to drag your child back home.  A slap upside the head is better then having to visit your child in jail or worse visit your child in the graveyard.

It will be interesting to see how the curfew will work (curfew is from 10pm to 5am for everyone for the rest of the week).  How that will impact businesses.  How well it will be enforced.

As for the mayor I am a bit disappointed in how she handled the riots.  She didn't make any type of public statement until almost 5 hours after the riots started and when she did finally say something she said maybe a handful of sentences and then turned things over to other individuals.  You are the mayor of the city, people want to hear from you and to hear how you are going to help calm the situation and stop the rioting.  Then again this is the first major incidence that she has had to deal with but typically this is the time when you see what your leaders are made of.

Businesses, schools and such are closed.  Tonight's Oriole game has been postponed (probably due to safety concerns and the curfew).  Tomorrows game will be played but will be closed to the public and the weekend games have been moved to Tampa Bay.  There are also planned protests for today and Thursday in the town I live in

Hi, can we stop referring to black people as "thugs"? It is racist as hell. It has racist origins and is, to this day, used almost exclusively to describe young black men.

The president of the US and the mayor are both black, and called them thugs. Not defending it, but just stating a fact.

ashley8918

huskypuppy14 said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

As some who lives near and loves the city of Baltimore the riots both Saturday and yesterday are just very disappointing.  All the peaceful protests that have happened over the past week are so are now a distant memory.  Any good those protests have done have been erased by a group of thugs.

Yesterdays protests were primarily teenagers.  They organized via social media.  Unfortunately they out numbered the police officers which is why things got as bad as they did.  I thought that the police showed amazing restraint in the midst of such chaos.

I will never understand what you gain from destroying your own community.  You still have to live in the area that you just vandalized, looted and burned down.  You are also helping to solidify the stereotype that unfortunately some individuals have of the community.

But seeing the clergy and councilman and other community members stand up to the asses was really nice to see.  It shows that not everyone feels the same or thinks that rioting is a good idea.  That is no way to get your point across.  It was also nice to see people come together this morning to help clean up.

As for Freddie Gray, he got hurt after being put in the police van.  The officers did not strap him in so he got bounced around and when your hands are tied behind your back (and then later your feet) it is difficult to brace yourself on a too bumpy ride.

I also love that Mom in that video.  That is not child abuse.  Put yourself in your shoes.  Imagine seeing your child as part of that group of thugs destroying the city you live in and looting and throwing bricks and other items at the police.  You would do anything to drag your child back home.  A slap upside the head is better then having to visit your child in jail or worse visit your child in the graveyard.

It will be interesting to see how the curfew will work (curfew is from 10pm to 5am for everyone for the rest of the week).  How that will impact businesses.  How well it will be enforced.

As for the mayor I am a bit disappointed in how she handled the riots.  She didn't make any type of public statement until almost 5 hours after the riots started and when she did finally say something she said maybe a handful of sentences and then turned things over to other individuals.  You are the mayor of the city, people want to hear from you and to hear how you are going to help calm the situation and stop the rioting.  Then again this is the first major incidence that she has had to deal with but typically this is the time when you see what your leaders are made of.

Businesses, schools and such are closed.  Tonight's Oriole game has been postponed (probably due to safety concerns and the curfew).  Tomorrows game will be played but will be closed to the public and the weekend games have been moved to Tampa Bay.  There are also planned protests for today and Thursday in the town I live in

Hi, can we stop referring to black people as "thugs"? It is racist as hell. It has racist origins and is, to this day, used almost exclusively to describe young black men.

The president of the US and the mayor are both black, and called them thugs. Not defending it, but just stating a fact.

This is like the "but I have black friends" argument. It doesnt make it any less wrong.

stefuhknee

It's so disheartening to see a city that never fully recovered from riots that occurred decades ago being plagued with similar civil unrest once again. While I don't agree with the actions the rioters have taken against their own communities I can certainly understand the frustrations that they've experienced and that violence has become their easiest outlet since they probably feel like they've got nothing left to lose.

teddygirl9

I didn't know it was considered racist. All I can find is hindi and sanskrit origins for thieves/conceal.

 

We call lots of races thugs where I live. Generally race doesn't even come into it. Interesting thought though.

kns1988

ashley8918 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

ashley8918 said:

Maggie0829 said:

As some who lives near and loves the city of Baltimore the riots both Saturday and yesterday are just very disappointing.  All the peaceful protests that have happened over the past week are so are now a distant memory.  Any good those protests have done have been erased by a group of thugs.

Yesterdays protests were primarily teenagers.  They organized via social media.  Unfortunately they out numbered the police officers which is why things got as bad as they did.  I thought that the police showed amazing restraint in the midst of such chaos.

I will never understand what you gain from destroying your own community.  You still have to live in the area that you just vandalized, looted and burned down.  You are also helping to solidify the stereotype that unfortunately some individuals have of the community.

But seeing the clergy and councilman and other community members stand up to the asses was really nice to see.  It shows that not everyone feels the same or thinks that rioting is a good idea.  That is no way to get your point across.  It was also nice to see people come together this morning to help clean up.

As for Freddie Gray, he got hurt after being put in the police van.  The officers did not strap him in so he got bounced around and when your hands are tied behind your back (and then later your feet) it is difficult to brace yourself on a too bumpy ride.

I also love that Mom in that video.  That is not child abuse.  Put yourself in your shoes.  Imagine seeing your child as part of that group of thugs destroying the city you live in and looting and throwing bricks and other items at the police.  You would do anything to drag your child back home.  A slap upside the head is better then having to visit your child in jail or worse visit your child in the graveyard.

It will be interesting to see how the curfew will work (curfew is from 10pm to 5am for everyone for the rest of the week).  How that will impact businesses.  How well it will be enforced.

As for the mayor I am a bit disappointed in how she handled the riots.  She didn't make any type of public statement until almost 5 hours after the riots started and when she did finally say something she said maybe a handful of sentences and then turned things over to other individuals.  You are the mayor of the city, people want to hear from you and to hear how you are going to help calm the situation and stop the rioting.  Then again this is the first major incidence that she has had to deal with but typically this is the time when you see what your leaders are made of.

Businesses, schools and such are closed.  Tonight's Oriole game has been postponed (probably due to safety concerns and the curfew).  Tomorrows game will be played but will be closed to the public and the weekend games have been moved to Tampa Bay.  There are also planned protests for today and Thursday in the town I live in

Hi, can we stop referring to black people as "thugs"? It is racist as hell. It has racist origins and is, to this day, used almost exclusively to describe young black men.

The president of the US and the mayor are both black, and called them thugs. Not defending it, but just stating a fact.

This is like the "but I have black friends" argument. It doesnt make it any less wrong.

I 100% agree with you, ashley8918

Bubblegum5586

I don't associate the word 'thug' specifically with black people at all. I associate it with people acting in a criminal way causing chaos and trouble...

ashley8918

teddygirl9 said:

I didn't know it was considered racist. All I can find is hindi and sanskrit origins for thieves/conceal.

 

We call lots of races thugs where I live. Generally race doesn't even come into it. Interesting thought though.

It's not a thought, it's a fact. It comes from a hindi word for thief which was used to describe a network of thieves and murders of in Europe who happened to be brown. It was widely used by the British to describe any brown-skinned person as one of these "thugs" coming to get them. The same way it was used to describe Trayvon Martin, who is largely believed to have been doing nothing wrong. But he is a "thug" because of the way he looked.

ashley8918

bubblegum1309 said:

I don't associate the word 'thug' specifically with black people at all. I associate it with people acting in a criminal way causing chaos and trouble...

When is the last time you heard a white person being called a thug in the media? I can't think of a time without searching. And how about a black person? Oh, right, that's every day. 

emmaaa

Maggie0829 said:

emmaaa said:

@Maggie0829 I was thinking of you and your family yesterday and hoping y'all were doing okay! 

Thanks @emmaaa.  It really was sad to watch.  Just on Sunday I went down to watch the O's play the Red Sox.  It was a gorgeous day out and all was calm.  It was crazy to see that in just 24 hours how everything can change.

H and I were watching that on TV and he was wishing he was there to watch the Red Sox. Things change so fast and you can feel so helpless.

This whole situation and the riots are so disheartening. 

lyndausvi

ashley8918 said:

bubblegum1309 said:

I don't associate the word 'thug' specifically with black people at all. I associate it with people acting in a criminal way causing chaos and trouble...

When is the last time you heard a white person being called a thug in the media? I can't think of a time without searching. And how about a black person? Oh, right, that's every day. 

oddly, the black mayor, the black president and the black police commissioners were the only ones calling them thugs last night.  I never heard the reporters using that word.

Not that it's right, but the media only showed what was spoken by public officials.

ashley8918

lyndausvi said:

ashley8918 said:

bubblegum1309 said:

I don't associate the word 'thug' specifically with black people at all. I associate it with people acting in a criminal way causing chaos and trouble...

When is the last time you heard a white person being called a thug in the media? I can't think of a time without searching. And how about a black person? Oh, right, that's every day. 

oddly, the black mayor, the black president and the black police commissioners were the only ones calling them thugs last night.  I never heard the reporters using that word.

Not that it's right, but the media only showed what was spoken by public officials.

Yes, i'm certain that they know better after Ferguson. I have seen several articles and whatnot floating around on the internet using this word, though.

ETA and my point is not that the reporters are/are not using the word. It's that it IS used in media reports (regardless of who said it) to describe black people regularly, but almost never to describe white people.

teddygirl9

ashley8918 said:

teddygirl9 said:

I didn't know it was considered racist. All I can find is hindi and sanskrit origins for thieves/conceal.

 

We call lots of races thugs where I live. Generally race doesn't even come into it. Interesting thought though.

It's not a thought, it's a fact. It comes from a hindi word for thief which was used to describe a network of thieves and murders of in Europe who happened to be brown. It was widely used by the British to describe any brown-skinned person as one of these "thugs" coming to get them. The same way it was used to describe Trayvon Martin, who is largely believed to have been doing nothing wrong. But he is a "thug" because of the way he looked.

Well that's even more confusing. Indians calling other Indians thugs - ie how it started. Doesn't sound racist. Not sure how this is associating with black folk though.

ashley8918

teddygirl9 said:

ashley8918 said:

teddygirl9 said:

I didn't know it was considered racist. All I can find is hindi and sanskrit origins for thieves/conceal.

 

We call lots of races thugs where I live. Generally race doesn't even come into it. Interesting thought though.

It's not a thought, it's a fact. It comes from a hindi word for thief which was used to describe a network of thieves and murders of in Europe who happened to be brown. It was widely used by the British to describe any brown-skinned person as one of these "thugs" coming to get them. The same way it was used to describe Trayvon Martin, who is largely believed to have been doing nothing wrong. But he is a "thug" because of the way he looked.

Well that's even more confusing. Indians calling other Indians thugs - ie how it started. Doesn't sound racist. Not sure how this is associating with black folk though.

No... British people used the word (which came from a hindi word simply meant to describe this particular brand of thieves) to describe any brown skinned person as a scary thief, which is blatantly racist.

I'm not sure HOW you don't get the connection? Let me simplify it for you:

-Already historically established racist word

-Almost singularly used in the US to describe black "folk"

-Including black "folk" who are doing nothing wrong, but "look like thugs" because of their skin color, clothing, etc.

Pretty clear-cut racism.

VulgarGirl

Wait...we're using the "black people said so it's all good" defense? Really?

Ok, just a heads up don't go around saying the N word just because Diddy said it. That is not going to go well for you.

Oh and I refer to myself as being a dyke regularly. Do not walk into a lesbian bar and go "What up my dykes!" and expect that to go over well.

ashley8918

MagicInk said:

Wait...we're using the "black people said so it's all good" defense? Really?

Ok, just a heads up don't go around saying the N word just because Diddy said it. That is not going to go well for you.

Oh and I refer to myself as being a dyke regularly. Do not walk into a lesbian bar and go "What up my dykes!" and expect that to go over well.

No wonder lesbians are always so mean to me!

lyndausvi

MagicInk said:

Wait...we're using the "black people said so it's all good" defense? Really?

Ok, just a heads up don't go around saying the N word just because Diddy said it. That is not going to go well for you.

Oh and I refer to myself as being a dyke regularly. Do not walk into a lesbian bar and go "What up my dykes!" and expect that to go over well.

no.  

But, I expect high ranking public officials use the proper verbiage that all citizens should use.  I don't use the term thug.  Never had the need. Never really knew it's racial background.  

When I hear a high ranking public officials use the word in press conferences I'm gong to assume it's PC. and not just 1 high ranking public official.  Many high ranking public officials. 

And if you were a high ranking public official I would not expect you to use the term dyke at a press conference either.   

   As this post proves it sends mixed messages of who and when it's okay to use. 

teddygirl9

ashley8918 said:

teddygirl9 said:

ashley8918 said:

teddygirl9 said:

I didn't know it was considered racist. All I can find is hindi and sanskrit origins for thieves/conceal.

 

We call lots of races thugs where I live. Generally race doesn't even come into it. Interesting thought though.

It's not a thought, it's a fact. It comes from a hindi word for thief which was used to describe a network of thieves and murders of in Europe who happened to be brown. It was widely used by the British to describe any brown-skinned person as one of these "thugs" coming to get them. The same way it was used to describe Trayvon Martin, who is largely believed to have been doing nothing wrong. But he is a "thug" because of the way he looked.

Well that's even more confusing. Indians calling other Indians thugs - ie how it started. Doesn't sound racist. Not sure how this is associating with black folk though.

No... British people used the word (which came from a hindi word simply meant to describe this particular brand of thieves) to describe any brown skinned person as a scary thief, which is blatantly racist.

I'm not sure HOW you don't get the connection? Let me simplify it for you:

-Already historically established racist word

-Almost singularly used in the US to describe black "folk"

-Including black "folk" who are doing nothing wrong, but "look like thugs" because of their skin color, clothing, etc.

Pretty clear-cut racism.

I think i just don't agree that it was originally a racist word. It may well have racist connotations now, but that wasn't how the word started. It started when people in india and pakistan were killing each other - not other europeans. Maybe just arguing semantics here.

 

 In fact, I'm pretty sure it used to be used to describe mafia bad guys, who were white. And now, more recently, perhaps blacks.

ashley8918

teddygirl9 said: ashley8918 said: teddygirl9 said: ashley8918 said: teddygirl9 said:I didn't know it was considered racist. All I can find is hindi and sanskrit origins for thieves/conceal.  We call lots of races thugs where I live. Generally race doesn't even come into it. Interesting thought though.

It's not a thought, it's a fact. It comes from a hindi word for thief which was used to describe a network of thieves and murders of in Europe who happened to be brown. It was widely used by the British to describe any brown-skinned person as one of these "thugs" coming to get them. The same way it was used to describe Trayvon Martin, who is largely believed to have been doing nothing wrong. But he is a "thug" because of the way he looked.

Well that's even more confusing. Indians calling other Indians thugs - ie how it started. Doesn't sound racist. Not sure how this is associating with black folk though.


No... British people used the word (which came from a hindi word simply meant to describe this particular brand of thieves) to describe any brown skinned person as a scary thief, which is blatantly racist.
I'm not sure HOW you don't get the connection? Let me simplify it for you:-Already historically established racist word-Almost singularly used in the US to describe black "folk" -Including black "folk" who are doing nothing wrong, but "look like thugs" because of their skin color, clothing, etc.
Pretty clear-cut racism.


I think i just don't agree that it was originally a racist word. It may well have racist connotations now, but that wasn't how the word started. It started when people in india and pakistan were killing each other - not other europeans. Maybe just arguing semantics here.  In fact, I'm pretty sure it used to be used to describe mafia bad guys, who were white. And now, more recently, perhaps blacks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Okay so it was not originally , but it is historically racist. Why does it matter exactly WHEN it became a racist word? That doesn't change the fact that it is.

And actually, they were stealing from, and killing British people (read: white people).

Regardless, the exact details dont matter. Let's not perpetuate racism for the sake of being stubborn.

FiancB

Hi, also can we recognize that protesters and looters are not one and the same?

I haven't looked into it a whole lot as I'm sure I'd get really worked up about it. But seeing that mom- my first thought is she didn't do it to teach her kid respect, she did it so her kid wouldn't get himself killed. 

Also

VulgarGirl

On June 28, 1969 something happened call the Stonewall riots. The Stonewall riots are why gay pride month is June. 

See there was a bar called Stonewall. It was a gay bar. But what was happening was that cops were going on and arressting people. For being gay. Can you guys stop and imagine that for a second? I could be sitting in hand cuffs because I'm gay. This was the 60s. That wasn't that long ago. 

So the cops would go into the bar and they'd make everyone line up. And then when the women looked too "manly" they'd force grope them to see what they had for genitals. And then they'd arrest them. Finally the queers stood and said "Fuck you you motherfuckers we're not fucking taking this anymore". 

Is lighting cars on fire and shooting people necessarily a good idea? Is looting going to help your cause? Meh, probably not. But can I understand the anger behind it? Hell yeah. I understand the anger behind being a minority in our society. I understand being pushed that fucking far. I understand finally having a enough and standing up and screaming "Fuck you you motherfuckers we're not fucking taking this anymore". 

teddygirl9

I give up on the boxes. But when they started (earliest I could find was 1300s), they were killing other wealthy people of the same skin colour. When the british came, they were the weathy, and then they started goin after them.

I don't want to argue to derail the thread, though I do like discussing the origin of random things.

 

And yes, protesters and looters/rioters are not the same. As someone else said there were many peaceful protests.

ashley8918

teddygirl9 said:

I give up on the boxes. But when they started (earliest I could find was 1300s), they were killing other wealthy people of the same skin colour. When the british came, they were the weathy, and then they started goin after them.

I don't want to argue to derail the thread, though I do like discussing the origin of random things.

 

And yes, protesters and looters/rioters are not the same. As someone else said there were many peaceful protests.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHEN IT BECAME A RACIST WORD. It did become, and is a racist word. FFS.

VulgarGirl

teddygirl9 said:

I give up on the boxes. But when they started (earliest I could find was 1300s), they were killing other wealthy people of the same skin colour. When the british came, they were the weathy, and then they started goin after them.

I don't want to argue to derail the thread, though I do like discussing the origin of random things.

 

And yes, protesters and looters/rioters are not the same. As someone else said there were many peaceful protests.

Rioters and looters aren't the same thing either. 

Looters are stealing shit. Rioters are making a scene.

esstee33

Privileged white women don't "get" rioting? 

In other news, water is wet. 

In other, other news, you're part of the problem. 

wandajune6

I think the fact that Baltimore hasn't gotten more attention is because it's not as horrible as Ferguson. Yes, there is rioting but there are also clear signs of people who want something better. That doesn't play as well in the news.

I had no idea that thug was a racist term. It's not a word that's part of my everyday vocabulary and but I've heard it used to apply to many races. However, now that I know, I'll make it a point to remove it from my vocabulary completely. I appreciate the education.

However, I would like to pose this question to the group: what term should be used in place of "thug"?

FiancB

People really like to quote MLK's more docile speeches. But:

redoryx

esstee33 said:

Privileged white women don't "get" rioting? 

In other news, water is wet. 

In other, other news, you're part of the problem. 

It's not all privileged white women, I promise.

ohannabelle

wandajune6 said:

I think the fact that Baltimore hasn't gotten more attention is because it's not as horrible as Ferguson. Yes, there is rioting but there are also clear signs of people who want something better. That doesn't play as well in the news.

I had no idea that thug was a racist term. It's not a word that's part of my everyday vocabulary and but I've heard it used to apply to many races. However, now that I know, I'll make it a point to remove it from my vocabulary completely. I appreciate the education.

However, I would like to pose this question to the group: what term should be used in place of "thug"?

I would use the term "violent criminal," which is exactly what the word thug has meant since it passed into common language in the 1840s. 

It was originally pronounced toog. Thugee was pronounced toogie. Because it was popularized by a best seller, and mispronounced when read. 

I've never seen examples of it used to differentiate between ethnicity of criminals. (Unless referring to the actual Thugees.) But in ordinary common use, it seems historically to have been applied equally to Irish thugs or Italian thugs or local thugs or hired thugs.  

And it looks like the word is evolving again, and should probably not be used. 

So, yes. Violent criminal will do, I think.