I'm surprised no one has brought up Baltimore..

ashley8918

ohannabelle said:

wandajune6 said:

I think the fact that Baltimore hasn't gotten more attention is because it's not as horrible as Ferguson. Yes, there is rioting but there are also clear signs of people who want something better. That doesn't play as well in the news.

I had no idea that thug was a racist term. It's not a word that's part of my everyday vocabulary and but I've heard it used to apply to many races. However, now that I know, I'll make it a point to remove it from my vocabulary completely. I appreciate the education.

However, I would like to pose this question to the group: what term should be used in place of "thug"?

I would use the term "violent criminal," which is exactly what the word thug has meant since it passed into common language in the 1840s. 

It was originally pronounced toog. Thugee was pronounced toogie. Because it was popularized by a best seller, and mispronounced when read. 

I've never seen examples of it used to differentiate between ethnicity of criminals. (Unless referring to the actual Thugees.) But in ordinary common use, it seems historically to have been applied equally to Irish thugs or Italian thugs or local thugs or hired thugs.  

And it looks like the word is evolving again, and should probably not be used. 

So, yes. Violent criminal will do, I think. 

Yes, I was just about to say this. I would use a term that factually describes the person/what they are doing. Violent criminal, looter, etc. are not slurs and are valid word choices.

particuliersylphe

I'm a Maryland native currently living in Richmond,VA, and whenever I go home I spend a lot of time in the city. I have many friends and family who live and work in Baltimore, and have been a constant stream of worry. Its definitely a difficult situation to watch unfold, I understand the frustrations. One of the newest incidents they just reported took place in south Baltimore a block from where my grandparents lived, and area that is now considered "unsafe". This is a place where I spent so much time growing up, which makes it hit extra hard.

People from Baltimore really do love the city, I hope everyone understands that, that Baltimore is so much more than what you are seeing on tv. There have been a lot of acts of kindness today, which are definitely heartwarming.

sarahufl

esstee33 said:

Privileged white women don't "get" rioting? 

In other news, water is wet. 

In other, other news, you're part of the problem. 

esstee33, Explain to me how I am part of the problem.

Go ahead, I am listening.

esstee33

sarahufl said:

esstee33 said:

Privileged white women don't "get" rioting? 

In other news, water is wet. 

In other, other news, you're part of the problem. 

esstee33, Explain to me how I am part of the problem.

Go ahead, I am listening.

What is "feeling bad for all involved" accomplishing? 

There are a whole lot of people (of all races, really, but commonly among white people) for whom events like this are water cooler talk, and there's lots of hand-wringing and talk about wishing they wouldn't riot, wishing they'd just find a more sensible, nonviolent way of protesting, but the reality is that these people (and maybe you're not one of them) will never have to experience the kinds of situations that lead to rioting and violence. That's why you don't get it. Privilege involves a protection extended to some people, and not to others, and the resulting divide is what I'm commenting on. 

Have you noticed in many, many, many of the pictures of looters tearing apart stores during these riots that a massive number of them took things like toilet paper? Can you imagine needing to capitalize on a moment like these riots to loot TOILET PAPER? 

My point is that their world, the world you're so disappointed about, is not your world, and that's why you don't get it. The more proactive stance would be to get involved and start trying to learn and help in whatever way you can, rather than sitting back and judging their methods, because until you're in the positions they're in, you'll never get why they do it. 

themuffinman16

ashley8918 said:

bubblegum1309 said:

I don't associate the word 'thug' specifically with black people at all. I associate it with people acting in a criminal way causing chaos and trouble...

When is the last time you heard a white person being called a thug in the media? I can't think of a time without searching. And how about a black person? Oh, right, that's every day. 

I think I would call any person in organized crime a thug. To me, I would describe the characters in the movie, Goodfellas as thugs.  I never accounted it for race, either. I think of a thug as a violent criminal. I never knew it was a racist word. Feeling like a jerk now, because I have said it.

dolewhipper

themuffinman16 said:

ashley8918 said:

bubblegum1309 said:

I don't associate the word 'thug' specifically with black people at all. I associate it with people acting in a criminal way causing chaos and trouble...

When is the last time you heard a white person being called a thug in the media? I can't think of a time without searching. And how about a black person? Oh, right, that's every day. 

I think I would call any person in organized crime a thug. To me, I would describe the characters in the movie, Goodfellas as thugs.  I never accounted it for race, either. I think of a thug as a violent criminal. I never knew it was a racist word. Feeling like a jerk now, because I have said it.

Agreed. Thugs to me and all the people I associate with, are considered criminals. Sometimes my older family members just use it to describe kids that are loitering in the streets around stores ("Look at these thug kids! grumblegrumble.") who are any mix of race. Hell, as a teen, when I was with my guy friends skateboarding those same family family members were scared I'd be considered a thug to other people (FTR, I would also be considered a "privileged white woman").

I never realized there are others around the country or world that this term would be considered racist, so I will also try and cut it from my vocabulary. 

flutteringinfl

A friend posted this yesterday, which sums up perfectly how I feel about the situation:

Do I think rioting or looting is cool? No. But I also think that I have very little idea what it's like to be part of a culture that is continuously profiled and targeted and caught in a vicious cycle of poverty and social ills. I think if people in my culture were being gunned down or killed for no reason by people in power every other week, and I felt like nothing was being done to stop that, I'd be pretty angry too.

ashley8918

flutteringinfl said:

A friend posted this yesterday, which sums up perfectly how I feel about the situation:

.

This is perfect!

redoryx

flutteringinfl said:

A friend posted this yesterday, which sums up perfectly how I feel about the situation:

Do I think rioting or looting is cool? No. But I also think that I have very little idea what it's like to be part of a culture that is continuously profiled and targeted and caught in a vicious cycle of poverty and social ills. I think if people in my culture were being gunned down or killed for no reason by people in power every other week, and I felt like nothing was being done to stop that, I'd be pretty angry too.

Yup. People > Property

[Deleted User]

I think rioting is an understandable response to the outrages and systemic oppression that these communities face.

This article sums it up better than I can say it: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/

"When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con. And none of this can mean that rioting or violence is "correct" or "wise," any more than a forest fire can be "correct" or "wise." Wisdom isn't the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community."

This article was super interesting and definitely showed me a new perspective on the riots, but I still have questions.

For example, the author seems to allude to the fact that the riots are due to people not knowing what happened to Freddie Gray.  Author writes, "Why is mere eye contact and then running worthy of detention at the hands of the state? Why is Freddie Gray dead? The people now calling for nonviolence are not prepared to answer these questions. Many of them are charged with enforcing the very policies that led to Gray's death, and yet they can offer no rational justification for Gray's death and so they appeal for calm." Does that mean the author believes that once people do find out, the rioting will stop? I'm going to say no, because I imagine the answer (which is almost obviously police brutality or injury while detained in the police van), will only incite MORE violence. And I don't think that is a disproportionate response. This NEVER should have happened.

So I think the real question is, what needs to happen now so that people are no longer forced to riot? The author's point that citizens are responding to the years of violence from police makes sense, but what can we do now and moving forward to prevent this from happening? Because I can't imagine promises from officials that "things will change" is going to stop this. I don't know what will stop this, I just know it needs to stop before citizens of Baltimore lose even more of their community. And I think the answers will vary from person to person, because everyone has a different motivation for the actions, and one sweeping promise for peace and respect isn't going to quell everyone.

novella1186

flutteringinfl said:

abcdevonn said:

I think rioting is an understandable response to the outrages and systemic oppression that these communities face.

This article sums it up better than I can say it: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/

"When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con. And none of this can mean that rioting or violence is "correct" or "wise," any more than a forest fire can be "correct" or "wise." Wisdom isn't the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community."

This article was super interesting and definitely showed me a new perspective on the riots, but I still have questions.

For example, the author seems to allude to the fact that the riots are due to people not knowing what happened to Freddie Gray.  Author writes, "Why is mere eye contact and then running worthy of detention at the hands of the state? Why is Freddie Gray dead? The people now calling for nonviolence are not prepared to answer these questions. Many of them are charged with enforcing the very policies that led to Gray's death, and yet they can offer no rational justification for Gray's death and so they appeal for calm." Does that mean the author believes that once people do find out, the rioting will stop? I'm going to say no, because I imagine the answer (which is almost obviously police brutality or injury while detained in the police van), will only incite MORE violence. And I don't think that is a disproportionate response. This NEVER should have happened.

So I think the real question is, what needs to happen now so that people are no longer forced to riot? The author's point that citizens are responding to the years of violence from police makes sense, but what can we do now and moving forward to prevent this from happening? Because I can't imagine promises from officials that "things will change" is going to stop this. I don't know what will stop this, I just know it needs to stop before citizens of Baltimore lose even more of their community. And I think the answers will vary from person to person, because everyone has a different motivation for the actions, and one sweeping promise for peace and respect isn't going to quell everyone.

Totally agree. I feel like answering all these questions won't solve anything, because that's not the only problem-- as in, WHY he died is not the only problem. The fact that he died is obviously also a huge problem. Knowing why is one step, but that doesn't really change anything. I feel like we're back in the 1950s with this shit, but it happens all the time. And I'm a little tired of hearing officials saying they see the problems and know that change needs to happen and change will happen-- but a couple weeks later, we see a repeat of the same thing. If I'm frustrated and tired of it, I can only imagine being a member of the minority that keeps having to be treated this way. It's so gross. 

FiancB

I just wanna say it's much nicer to discuss these things on here than on my goddamn horse forum. Here, you say that the word thug is problematic and has racist connotations, people listen, understand, and try to remove its use. Over there, I bring it up and get laughed at. Because there's NO WAY a horse forum wouldn't have a super skewed vision of the matter being basically 100% white and at least middle class if not wealthier. Fuck. I wanna rage quit but at the same time feel like I could at least be of a little bit of use. 

Also, this article is really eloquent and expresses my thoughts very well, and is a pretty direct answer as to why not getting riots is problematic: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/28/1380944/-The-Dominant-White-Response-to-Baltimore-Shows-Why-Black-Residents-are-Justified-in-their-Anger?detail=facebook_sf#

chibiyui

I just read through this, and I want to say how wonderful you ladies on this forum are.

Every single damn one of my FB friends in podunk PA (two hours from Baltimore) are posting all this "Pray for Baltimore", MLK non-violence quotes,  and generally being subtly racist dicks about it.

Some not so subtly. 

Yet the FB book friend who was actually holed up in a restaurant on South Ann for a few hours, before being able to safely get back to his girlfriends apartment, took the time to reflect and later post the Human Rights Watch report on police brutality in the U.S. 

It's a damn shame how removed so many of us are from the life and fear that gives rise to these riots, and yet feel the need to proclaim ourselves superior.

ashley8918

FiancB said:

I just wanna say it's much nicer to discuss these things on here than on my goddamn horse forum. Here, you say that the word thug is problematic and has racist connotations, people listen, understand, and try to remove its use. Over there, I bring it up and get laughed at. Because there's NO WAY a horse forum wouldn't have a super skewed vision of the matter being basically 100% white and at least middle class if not wealthier. Fuck. I wanna rage quit but at the same time feel like I could at least be of a little bit of use. 

Also, this article is really eloquent and expresses my thoughts very well, and is a pretty direct answer as to why not getting riots is problematic: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/28/1380944/-The-Dominant-White-Response-to-Baltimore-Shows-Why-Black-Residents-are-Justified-in-their-Anger?detail=facebook_sf#

Other than the few posters who used the "but black people say it, so I will say it!" defense, yes.

[Deleted User]

.

[Deleted User]

.

lyndausvi

ashley8918 said:

FiancB said:

I just wanna say it's much nicer to discuss these things on here than on my goddamn horse forum. Here, you say that the word thug is problematic and has racist connotations, people listen, understand, and try to remove its use. Over there, I bring it up and get laughed at. Because there's NO WAY a horse forum wouldn't have a super skewed vision of the matter being basically 100% white and at least middle class if not wealthier. Fuck. I wanna rage quit but at the same time feel like I could at least be of a little bit of use. 

Also, this article is really eloquent and expresses my thoughts very well, and is a pretty direct answer as to why not getting riots is problematic: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/28/1380944/-The-Dominant-White-Response-to-Baltimore-Shows-Why-Black-Residents-are-Justified-in-their-Anger?detail=facebook_sf#

Other than the few posters who used the "but black people say it, so I will say it!" defense, yes.

I put public officials at a higher standard.  Especially when speaking in a press conference.   If they are using the term, then it should be fair game for everyone to use the term.    We shouldn't have public officials using terms that only certain members of the population can use and others can't.   Young people watch press conferences.  How are they to know that Obama is allowed to use the term "thug" and they can't because they are white?  That's just BS.

I'm not talking about Puff Daddy saying the n-word in a song.  Or a lesbian calling her girl friends a dyke in a gay bar.  I'm saying public officials (elected or otherwise).  Specifically when they speak at press conferences or an other public events.

Many people now know it's not appropriate to use the term.  They will remove it from their vocabulary.   That is a good thing.  Lets hope our public speaking public officials follow suit.

esstee33

Some additional reading for anyone who might want to help: 

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/11-things-white-people-can-do-be-real-anti-racist-allies

http://www.paulkivel.com/resources/articles/item/73-guidelines-for-being-strong-white-allies

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/ferguson_how_white_people_can_be_allies.html

VulgarGirl

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

lyndausvi

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

I'm not saying they are no dumb asses.    Lord knows there a ton of public officials who make fucked up comments.

What I'm saying is this.  Dyke is offensive to you (as it should).  I do not think IF you are a public official you should be calling your lesbian friends dykes in a press conference.  Then get all upset that non-lesbians are using the word.      It sends the wrong and confusing message.     You should be using words everyone you serve can use.

When you hear at least 3 different high profile officials using the term "thug" it's not a far stretch for the general public is going to call them by the same term.   Now the white privileged are being thrown under the bus for using the term.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

novella1186

esstee33 said:

Some additional reading for anyone who might want to help: 

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/11-things-white-people-can-do-be-real-anti-racist-allies

http://www.paulkivel.com/resources/articles/item/73-guidelines-for-being-strong-white-allies

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/ferguson_how_white_people_can_be_allies.html

I re-read this one about 12 times: 

8. Rebecca Carroll, op-ed writer for the Guardian and director of digital media & marketing at Scenarios USA:

I think among the most pressingly crucial concepts for white allies to consider is not simply the privilege and power they possess in a system that favors, elevates and rewards that privilege and power, but what it would mean or look like to take that privilege and power down a notch, or maybe a few notches. Because operating at even a privilege deficit for white people is still operating from a vantage point. I don't mean give up your Pottery Barn rugs, and I definitely don't mean feigning deference toward black magical magic (despite our obvious magical magic). I mean cultivate racial consciousness in ways that will inform your intellect and language, and greatly affect the way you interact with black folks.

When you are taking in media, notice when you've just finished reading five stories on a website, or watched six trailers in front of a movie, or glanced over the magazine covers at the supermarket checkout line without seeing a single person of color (other than Beyonce). When you are on the subway and you see young black people talking loudly, expressing themselves and letting off steam, realize they see you looking at them, clutching your bag, passing quiet judgement you likely don't even know you're passing. But above all else, realize they are youth, young black people, who are faced with this sort of tacitly pointed denigration on a daily basis and who are just trying to grow and live. 

And finally speaking of young black people, Hunger Games actress Amandla Stenberg was recently quoted as saying: "What if we loved black people as much as we loved black culture?" Think about that. Every day.  

FiancB

lyndausvi said:

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

I get what you're saying but that's kind of the point of conversations like these. It's kind of nit-picky but it helps people realize the words they use are problematic.Hold yourself to a high standard, let the politicians catch up.

Kinda like I used the words slut and retard quite a bit when I was younger. Now I realize those words are pretty directly sexist or ableist and don't use them anymore. Another word with a racist connotation would be ghetto. 

KatWAG

"The T-word" is the front page of CNN right now.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/baltimore-riots-thug-n-word/index.html

Bubblegum5586

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

I get what you're saying but that's kind of the point of conversations like these. It's kind of nit-picky but it helps people realize the words they use are problematic.Hold yourself to a high standard, let the politicians catch up.

Kinda like I used the words slut and retard quite a bit when I was younger. Now I realize those words are pretty directly sexist or ableist and don't use them anymore. Another word with a racist connotation would be ghetto. 

For black people or Jewish people? Jewish people had to live in ghettos starting in 1516 in Venice. Link

I hate conflict and would never want to offend anyone. But words are words. It's people that give words power and hate. It's just hard to keep up with it all sometimes. I grew up calling rainbow sprinkles - "sprinkles" and chocolate sprinkles - 'jimmies". Then one day someone tells me that it racist and your supposed to say "chocolate sprinkles". I found this talking about the different ways the word "jimmies" may have came from. After talking about all the different theories it's summed up with;

Sometimes words just sneak into a language without anyone's knowing, years after the fact, how that process came about. Yet no matter how jimmies became part of common parlance (as with many other terms, its origin may ultimately prove untraceable), no substantive evidence demonstrates anything denigrative of African-Americans was tied to the origin of the name. It may be the case that among those who refer to dark brown or chocolate sprinkles as "jimmies" and other colors simply as "sprinkles," someone simply assumed a potentially racist connection was at work and retroactively invented an explanation for it. 

lurkergirl

bubblegum1309 said:

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

I get what you're saying but that's kind of the point of conversations like these. It's kind of nit-picky but it helps people realize the words they use are problematic.Hold yourself to a high standard, let the politicians catch up.

Kinda like I used the words slut and retard quite a bit when I was younger. Now I realize those words are pretty directly sexist or ableist and don't use them anymore. Another word with a racist connotation would be ghetto. 

For black people or Jewish people? Jewish people had to live in ghettos starting in 1516 in Venice. Link

I hate conflict and would never want to offend anyone. But words are words. It's people that give words power and hate. It's just hard to keep up with it all sometimes. I grew up calling rainbow sprinkles - "sprinkles" and chocolate sprinkles - 'jimmies". Then one day someone tells me that it racist and your supposed to say "chocolate sprinkles". I found this talking about the different ways the word "jimmies" may have came from. After talking about all the different theories it's summed up with;

Sometimes words just sneak into a language without anyone's knowing, years after the fact, how that process came about. Yet no matter how jimmies became part of common parlance (as with many other terms, its origin may ultimately prove untraceable), no substantive evidence demonstrates anything denigrative of African-Americans was tied to the origin of the name. It may be the case that among those who refer to dark brown or chocolate sprinkles as "jimmies" and other colors simply as "sprinkles," someone simply assumed a potentially racist connection was at work and retroactively invented an explanation for it. 

MOTHERLOVINGBOXESSSSSSS (don't want anyone to think I would ever say or want to be associated with the nonsense above)

NONONONONONONONONONO.  Just.  All the nope. 

ashley8918

bubblegum1309 said:

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

I get what you're saying but that's kind of the point of conversations like these. It's kind of nit-picky but it helps people realize the words they use are problematic.Hold yourself to a high standard, let the politicians catch up.

Kinda like I used the words slut and retard quite a bit when I was younger. Now I realize those words are pretty directly sexist or ableist and don't use them anymore. Another word with a racist connotation would be ghetto. 

For black people or Jewish people? Jewish people had to live in ghettos starting in 1516 in Venice. Link

I hate conflict and would never want to offend anyone. But words are words. It's people that give words power and hate. It's just hard to keep up with it all sometimes. I grew up calling rainbow sprinkles - "sprinkles" and chocolate sprinkles - 'jimmies". Then one day someone tells me that it racist and your supposed to say "chocolate sprinkles". I found this talking about the different ways the word "jimmies" may have came from. After talking about all the different theories it's summed up with;

Sometimes words just sneak into a language without anyone's knowing, years after the fact, how that process came about. Yet no matter how jimmies became part of common parlance (as with many other terms, its origin may ultimately prove untraceable), no substantive evidence demonstrates anything denigrative of African-Americans was tied to the origin of the name. It may be the case that among those who refer to dark brown or chocolate sprinkles as "jimmies" and other colors simply as "sprinkles," someone simply assumed a potentially racist connection was at work and retroactively invented an explanation for it. 

----------------------------------------BOXBOXBOXBOX-------------------------------------

Dude, no. Stop trying to justify the use of racist words. Just stop using them.

esstee33

bubblegum1309 said:

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

I get what you're saying but that's kind of the point of conversations like these. It's kind of nit-picky but it helps people realize the words they use are problematic.Hold yourself to a high standard, let the politicians catch up.

Kinda like I used the words slut and retard quite a bit when I was younger. Now I realize those words are pretty directly sexist or ableist and don't use them anymore. Another word with a racist connotation would be ghetto. 

For black people or Jewish people? Jewish people had to live in ghettos starting in 1516 in Venice. Link

I hate conflict and would never want to offend anyone. But words are words. It's people that give words power and hate. It's just hard to keep up with it all sometimes. I grew up calling rainbow sprinkles - "sprinkles" and chocolate sprinkles - 'jimmies". Then one day someone tells me that it racist and your supposed to say "chocolate sprinkles". I found this talking about the different ways the word "jimmies" may have came from. After talking about all the different theories it's summed up with;

Sometimes words just sneak into a language without anyone's knowing, years after the fact, how that process came about. Yet no matter how jimmies became part of common parlance (as with many other terms, its origin may ultimately prove untraceable), no substantive evidence demonstrates anything denigrative of African-Americans was tied to the origin of the name. It may be the case that among those who refer to dark brown or chocolate sprinkles as "jimmies" and other colors simply as "sprinkles," someone simply assumed a potentially racist connection was at work and retroactively invented an explanation for it. 

This is basically the same argument as "I call ALL people the n-word if they're acting like it, not JUST black people." 

novella1186

i'm not even gonna mess with the asshole boxes. 

It's true that people are what give words their power (since people are the only beings on earth that speak words) but that's exactly why we shouldn't say certain words; because they hold power, and they have an extremely negative effect. 

I was told by my mom the other day that when my dad says incredibly cruel things to me, I should "just brush it off and get over it, because they're just words." Just words. I guess that's why I had to pay $100 a week for therapy? 

As far as I'm concerned, words are one of the most powerful, most dangerous, most damaging forces on the planet, and we need to use them carefully. 

blabla89

bubblegum1309 said:

MagicInk said:

@lyndausvi are you saying public officials can't be racist? Can't make racist remarks? Can't be dumb asses?

I mean Ted Cruz is running around making homophobic remarks. He's an elected official. We had an elected official make remarks about legitimate rape. I think it's fair to say elected officials can be dumb asses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for this discussion.  But yeah, I'm kind of pissed that my president (and yes I voted for him) is using a term that I thought was correct only to be told I'm a racist for using it myself.

Having fucked up opinions like Cruz is another issue.   

I get what you're saying but that's kind of the point of conversations like these. It's kind of nit-picky but it helps people realize the words they use are problematic.Hold yourself to a high standard, let the politicians catch up.

Kinda like I used the words slut and retard quite a bit when I was younger. Now I realize those words are pretty directly sexist or ableist and don't use them anymore. Another word with a racist connotation would be ghetto. 

For black people or Jewish people? Jewish people had to live in ghettos starting in 1516 in Venice. Link

I hate conflict and would never want to offend anyone. But words are words. It's people that give words power and hate. It's just hard to keep up with it all sometimes. I grew up calling rainbow sprinkles - "sprinkles" and chocolate sprinkles - 'jimmies". Then one day someone tells me that it racist and your supposed to say "chocolate sprinkles". I found this talking about the different ways the word "jimmies" may have came from. After talking about all the different theories it's summed up with;

Sometimes words just sneak into a language without anyone's knowing, years after the fact, how that process came about. Yet no matter how jimmies became part of common parlance (as with many other terms, its origin may ultimately prove untraceable), no substantive evidence demonstrates anything denigrative of African-Americans was tied to the origin of the name. It may be the case that among those who refer to dark brown or chocolate sprinkles as "jimmies" and other colors simply as "sprinkles," someone simply assumed a potentially racist connection was at work and retroactively invented an explanation for it. 

Okay, if you are using it in a strictly historical context, fine.

Saying "that looks ghetto", "they are acting ghetto", "I had to drive through the ghetto", etc. is different. It is a term that is clearly derogatory, generally toward African Americans and/or poor people. The history doesn't matter when it's used that way.

littlepep

Just saw this on FB and thought of this thread.