NWR - angry/frustrated tears, I can feel them … {rant} - UPDATE

louxnoelle

I'm finishing up my spring semester of college, and the amount of communication issues I am having with people "in charge" is killing me.

My advisor has been essentially MIA this entire year to help with transfer credits and selecting future classes, and when I finally did have a face-to-face meeting set up with him, he forgot about it and was 15 minutes late. He then legitimately refused to look at the academic plan I had made for myself, saying he didn't know which courses I needed, and to just look at the sheet of paper they print saying what's required for all majors … I did look at that paper. That's how I know what I need to fulfill. Can you please tell me if these particular classes fulfill those requirements?  

A professor of mine agreed to let me reschedule an evening final for an unavoidable work commitment, and will not email me back. I sent three emails leading up to the final (each time thinking he was just busy and would eventually get back to me), and two since the final. He has not responded to even one of them! If, for some weird reason, he was reneging on the offer to let me reschedule, can you just fucking please email me back and let me know?! The final is 50% of my grade, so without it I failed.

I emailed the head of the department asking for any guidance or an alternative way to get in touch with the professor, who is adjunct and therefore does not have an office for me to just camp out at, which I would be willing to do. Their response was that it's at the professor's discretion to make exceptions to final schedules, and that the professor is under no obligation to reschedule my test. I explained that the professor DID agree to reschedule my final, it's not like I just blew the test off assuming I could email him the next day for an alternate date. Now they won't return my email either.

I have been professional and respectful in all communication. I cannot believe that the faculty of a college can be so blasé about helping a student who is trying to be proactive and successful. Is it not their job to teach, guide, and assist? Even if an email was not what I wanted to hear, I would just appreciate a response at this point - why am I begging professors and administrators to answer a student's emails?!

littlestmonkey

I normally lurk but I had to respond to this because it's just so awful. I'm a PhD student who has been teaching undergraduate classes all year and I can't believe that they would treat you like this!! It's so unprofessional!

Unfortunately though, while part of their job is to teach, it's not the teaching that gets them hired and/or promoted so many professors can get away with blowing off students to concentrate on their research - which is what will get them hired and promoted - the incentive structure sucks. And if the Head of Department is willing to blow off a student, then that attitude will filter down.

If I were you, I would print out all of the emails you have sent and the few that you have received back and take them to whoever advocates for students on your campus - this is sometimes the Dean of Students. I can imagine that you might be hesitant about going outside of the dept (I know I would be) but blowing off a student during finals week is unacceptable and if the Head isn't willing to do anything about it, I really think you have to - and you need to do it as soon as possible as it will be much easier to sort this out while the semester is still in session than during the summer when the adjunct will no longer be an employee.

larrygaga

I'm going through some shitty stuff with school too. All I can say is universities are the biggest fucking scam there is.

[Deleted User]

I'm a little confused - did you have a set date/time then for the final, and then the professor didn't show?

Can you work with someone to request a new advisor?

Sorry to hear you're going through this!

[Deleted User]

@littlestmonkey said to try a student advocate; at my school they were called the Ombudsman- just another "title" to try if you can't find a "dean" listed. Good luck.

louxnoelle

littlestmonkey said:If I were you, I would print out all of the emails you have sent and the few that you have received back and take them to whoever advocates for students on your campus - this is sometimes the Dean of Students. I can imagine that you might be hesitant about going outside of the dept (I know I would be) but blowing off a student during finals week is unacceptable and if the Head isn't willing to do anything about it, I really think you have to - and you need to do it as soon as possible as it will be much easier to sort this out while the semester is still in session than during the summer when the adjunct will no longer be an employee.


I am nervous about going all the way to the Dean or somebody of that nature, but I think I'll take this advice because I don't know what else to do. Thank you, it's really appreciated.

larrygaga said:

I'm going through some shitty stuff with school too. All I can say is universities are the biggest fucking scam there is.

Preach, sistagirl.

AlisonM23 said:

I'm a little confused - did you have a set date/time then for the final, and then the professor didn't show?

Can you work with someone to request a new advisor?

Sorry to hear you're going through this!

There was a set date and time for the initial final, which I could not attend because of a nonnegotiable work commitment. When I told my professor, he said we could reschedule my final, and to send him an email detailing why I needed an alternative date, which I immediately did (I literally sat down and wrote it on my laptop before that day's class started). I didn't hear back from him, so I sent another a couple days later, and then another the morning of the final, and I've sent two since.

I will absolutely admit that going forward with no set alternative was not a good idea, but I figured since he had agreed to scheduling a make-up date (which professors usually do if a student has a valid reason for not being able to make the scheduled final), he must have been busy and would email me eventually. NOPE.

ETA: Yes, I'll be looking for a new advisor next semester.

@feeleytobe Thank you for that, I'll keep an eye out for that title.

allispain

College prof here. If what you're saying is true, then that is completely unacceptable. I can't imagine ever treating my students like that.

I would definitely make sure you print off copies of all of the e-mails. Then highlight the times and dates on them (particularly the one in which your prof says that you can reschedule the final exam) and bring them to someone. The Dean of Students is one good option. Another would be to contact the Dean of your school (for example, if you're in the school of Ed, the business school, etc.) and see if you can talk to someone there. Try to be as factual as possible - basically just state that these were the dates of the communications, this was what was said, and these have been the (lack of) results. I've found that students get better results when they put things this way with admin versus when they get visibly emotional/upset.

An additional route would be to talk to the program assistant (or whatever term your school uses for the administrative assistant for the department) and see if s/he can get in touch with your prof. That sometimes works, and s/he may be more helpful than the chair (and wow does that chair sound useless). Adjuncts (especially ones that aren't even given offices) often have to teach at 3-4 universities just to make enough to pay their bills. They don't always check every e-mail account as often as they should, and things sometimes fall through the cracks. A PA might be able to call them up for you (depending on the department/school).

Good luck - and I really hope you can get placed with a more effective advisor sometime soon. I promise, not all of us are like this. There are lots of college profs out there whose priority is their students, regardless of whether or not that will get them a promotion. Sadly, there are also plenty like yours that give us all a bad name.

hellosweetie1015

I'd be in the Dean of Students' office this morning, or whoever's job it is to advocate for students. Print out every email you have, and take them with you. Tell the Dean about the issues with your adviser. Tell them about your issues with the professor. Tell them about your issues with the head of your department. It's damaging your future and I think - at least based on what I read here - you're completely within your rights to be fucking pissed off. 

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all of that right here at the end of the semester. I had to deal with an adviser issue in sophomore year, and it played a part in my decision to change majors out of the sciences all together. (Also the fact that I couldn't pass the second-to-lowest chemistry my major required.)

allispain

Also, I forgot to add, check with your Registrar's Office to see what their final exam make-up policy is. Don't just trust the word of the (useless) chair.

littlestmonkey

louxnoelle said:

littlestmonkey said:

If I were you, I would print out all of the emails you have sent and the few that you have received back and take them to whoever advocates for students on your campus - this is sometimes the Dean of Students. I can imagine that you might be hesitant about going outside of the dept (I know I would be) but blowing off a student during finals week is unacceptable and if the Head isn't willing to do anything about it, I really think you have to - and you need to do it as soon as possible as it will be much easier to sort this out while the semester is still in session than during the summer when the adjunct will no longer be an employee.

I am nervous about going all the way to the Dean or somebody of that nature, but I think I'll take this advice because I don't know what else to do. Thank you, it's really appreciated.

The title's differ so they might not be a Dean, they might an Ombudsman as someone else said, which sounds less intimidating

If you can, do this today. If this is finals week for you, the adjunct's contract might end next week (mine does) and you absolutely need this in motion if not resolved by the time the contract ends.

emmaaa

I'm so sorry you're going through that. I'm a big believer that good professors and advisers can make a huge difference in someone's educational experience. 

If I were you, I would go directly to the department's office and talk to them face to face to get answers. Your first priority is to get that exam rescheduled. Print of all the emails that you have corresponding with that professor showing he agreed to let you reschedule the exam and then did not respond or try to reschedule with you. Try to go to this professor's office during office hours first and if you can't catch him, go to the department head. Face to face.

Once you have that handled, try to meet with your adviser to make sure you are meeting the correct requirements with the classes you want to or have enroll(ed) in. If he is still unhelpful and unwilling to actually advise you, but in a written and detailed request for a new adviser.

louxnoelle

Thanks for the support, ladies. I've been a little weepy about it this morning, but I'll get my shit together and figure out who I need to calmly speak with.

I feel really, really discouraged because I'm working two jobs in addition to full-time school, and I have kicked ass all through a really difficult semester. The fact that I'm getting screwed over by people not handling their responsibilities while I've been managing mine is infuriating. Talking about it here really helped to get myself in the right frame of mind.

You're all very appreciated.

allispain

I just caught the part where you said he verbally agreed to a make up but he never stated it in writing (although you did). That will complicate things. Any chance one or more of your classmates overheard the conversation and could act as a witness for you? That would definitely help your case. Our Dean of Students Office frequently uses student testimony to help make decisions.

littlestmonkey

Good luck!!! Let us know how it goes

anjemon

It sounds like PP's have given good advice about getting your test issues straightened out.

I'm going to chime in on the advisor issue because I too had a shitty advisor my first few years of college. Then she retired or something and I got a woman who was very willing to help and plan with me, and it made a world of difference. 

My suggestion here is seeing if there is a career center at your school. They might have some resources that you can use to make sure you have your next classes figured out. Or talk to a professor in your major who you actually like. They might be willing to help, especially if you already have a plan. And obviously see if you can get a new advisor next semester. My better advisor actually had me as a student in a few classes, and I think that helped her see me as more of a person and less just another checkmark she had to complete.

Good luck. It totally sucks when other people dropping the ball hurts all the careful planning you've done. But you're being smart and proactive and that has to go a long way.

KatieinBkln

Ugh, what a shitshow.

PPs have good advice about hitting the higher-ups. 

Re: Terrible advisors: I am so sorry. That sucks all the balls, and when you have a hot second to think about it you should absolutely request another. Don't settle for a shitty advisor, and if anyone asks why you're requesting the change, feel free to be honest. "I don't know what classes fulfill your requirements" is NOT a valid sentence for an academic advisor to say.

However, given that many, many advisors suck at their jobs (why is this? I will never know), I highly, highly recommend doing the work to be your own advisor. Pore over the requirements for your major, then read the course catalog religiously. Where I went to school, each course you could take had various symbols next to it that represented different prerequisites/"types" of classes that are required for given degrees and majors.

So, if Baskets of Africa 325 *#e is listed, it could mean that it fulfills *pre-1800 requirement, #writing requirement, and e ethnic studies requirement. Your major may require X number of each of these requirements, and usually a course with multiple symbols will fulfill all of those requirements simultaneously.

Your school may also have rules about how many "upper level" courses you have to have to finish a major/degree. They should tell you somewhere what that threshold is (I believe my school was as explicit as to say, "5 400-level courses or above" or some such, but you may have a baseline number that is always considered "upper level").

This shit is a pain in the ass to decipher, and it is not supposed to be all on you to figure it out...but ultimately, it really is your responsibility. You've been trying to be responsible through normal channels, but they're failing you, so now you have to figure it out for yourself. (Honestly, I recommend this for anyone, regardless of how good their advisors are--it's always good to know for certain that you're in the clear).

Treat it like a puzzle--the answers you seek WILL be published/written out somewhere. If the course catalog is not totally clear, your major's department website might fill in some blanks. There's usually a baseline "how many credits/what type of courses do you need to take to get a BA or a BS" document available, too.

Then, once you have your ducks in a row, you can see that you have a hierarchy:

-Need N number of credits to graduate

-Must fulfill general ed./writing/math prerequisites first

-Need X number of credits to be within the major

-Must have Y proportion of lower-level vs. upper-level courses

-Must include Z number of credits/courses to fulfill a specialty within the major/qualify for honors, etc. etc.

Knowing the "flow chart" of your requirements is half the battle. Then, if you have a course whose description is woefully vague about which requirements it fulfills, and you don't have a more competent advisor in place by then, I would take it to the chair of the department at her office hours and keep it simple: "I'm thinking of registering for Basket Weaving 747--can you tell me if that fulfills the Advanced Crafting requirement?" No need to bring your whole plan for the semester, especially since you already know she can be a bit brusque.

I was in the habit of periodically going over the courses I had taken/planned to take to make sure I was still on track every semester or so. Knowing what was required and what was allowed saved me a lot of grief and helped me make decisions--knowing that the French department at my school only allowed 9 credits to come from studies abroad (I know, right? SO DUMB) meant that A. I didn't bother pursuing French as a third major, and B. I decided to study a full year in Spain, rather than splitting my time into 1 semester in France and another somewhere Spanish-speaking, since only 9 of the 12 credits required for full-time status would have "counted."

No advisor could've told me this, because advisors are from the department you major in (I had 2 with a double major) and they don't really talk across departments.

Moral of the story for lurkers: Be your own advisor, work out the requirements as best you can, and then refuse to accept "I dunno" for an answer when you need clarification!

Blergbot

My dad is a Dean of Students, and he is not the person you would take this to. He deals with student life (housing, meal plans, sexual assult and alcohol policy, student activities, etc.). You should take this issue to the Dean of the College, sometimes known as the Academic Dean or Provost. Theyare in charge of faculty and in-classroom issues. Good luck!

AprilH81

My college had a page in the front of our course catalog that had the degree requirements with blanks that you could fill in with what course(s) you took to satisfy that requirement.  It was a great visual tool to see where I stood at the end of each semester.  My advisor was just someone who signed off on my plan if I needed her to.

Ditto @katieinbkin about the catalog telling you what requirements each class satisfies and a tip (if you don't know this already) is to try to make each course satisfy two or more requirements.  I took a World Music History class that satisfied a fine arts, world perspective and a history requirement.  "Double Dipping" where you can will allow you to graduate on time without having to pay for extra classes.

Regardless, you should not be treated like you have been.  Good luck!

sarahufl

I work as a Program Admin for a MPA program at a university. Do you have someone in that role?

I am not an administrative assistant, but I do have to intervene often with faculty. Many of them don't have admins, so I am sort of a catch-all (even though my job has many, many more moving parts). Generalizing a bit here, but it is based on lots of experience- many faculty members don't do admin stuff. So the idea of setting up an exam for you isn't something they want to touch (even though they said they would). I have had students come to me in a similar position and I just go to the faculty and say "so and so needs to make up their exam. They can do it in my office at X, Y, Z times. Please email me a copy of the exam and I will administer it for you." This tends to catch them much faster than the student themselves.

Crappy, for sure, and pretty unacceptable. But you may just need to work around it.

hellosweetie1015

KatieinBkln said:

Ugh, what a shitshow.

PPs have good advice about hitting the higher-ups. 

Re: Terrible advisors: I am so sorry. That sucks all the balls, and when you have a hot second to think about it you should absolutely request another. Don't settle for a shitty advisor, and if anyone asks why you're requesting the change, feel free to be honest. "I don't know what classes fulfill your requirements" is NOT a valid sentence for an academic advisor to say.

However, given that many, many advisors suck at their jobs (why is this? I will never know), I highly, highly recommend doing the work to be your own advisor. Pore over the requirements for your major, then read the course catalog religiously. Where I went to school, each course you could take had various symbols next to it that represented different prerequisites/"types" of classes that are required for given degrees and majors.

So, if Baskets of Africa 325 *#e is listed, it could mean that it fulfills *pre-1800 requirement, #writing requirement, and e ethnic studies requirement. Your major may require X number of each of these requirements, and usually a course with multiple symbols will fulfill all of those requirements simultaneously.

Your school may also have rules about how many "upper level" courses you have to have to finish a major/degree. They should tell you somewhere what that threshold is (I believe my school was as explicit as to say, "5 400-level courses or above" or some such, but you may have a baseline number that is always considered "upper level").

This shit is a pain in the ass to decipher, and it is not supposed to be all on you to figure it out...but ultimately, it really is your responsibility. You've been trying to be responsible through normal channels, but they're failing you, so now you have to figure it out for yourself. (Honestly, I recommend this for anyone, regardless of how good their advisors are--it's always good to know for certain that you're in the clear).

Treat it like a puzzle--the answers you seek WILL be published/written out somewhere. If the course catalog is not totally clear, your major's department website might fill in some blanks. There's usually a baseline "how many credits/what type of courses do you need to take to get a BA or a BS" document available, too.

Then, once you have your ducks in a row, you can see that you have a hierarchy:

-Need N number of credits to graduate

-Must fulfill general ed./writing/math prerequisites first

-Need X number of credits to be within the major

-Must have Y proportion of lower-level vs. upper-level courses

-Must include Z number of credits/courses to fulfill a specialty within the major/qualify for honors, etc. etc.

Knowing the "flow chart" of your requirements is half the battle. Then, if you have a course whose description is woefully vague about which requirements it fulfills, and you don't have a more competent advisor in place by then, I would take it to the chair of the department at her office hours and keep it simple: "I'm thinking of registering for Basket Weaving 747--can you tell me if that fulfills the Advanced Crafting requirement?" No need to bring your whole plan for the semester, especially since you already know she can be a bit brusque.

I was in the habit of periodically going over the courses I had taken/planned to take to make sure I was still on track every semester or so. Knowing what was required and what was allowed saved me a lot of grief and helped me make decisions--knowing that the French department at my school only allowed 9 credits to come from studies abroad (I know, right? SO DUMB) meant that A. I didn't bother pursuing French as a third major, and B. I decided to study a full year in Spain, rather than splitting my time into 1 semester in France and another somewhere Spanish-speaking, since only 9 of the 12 credits required for full-time status would have "counted."

No advisor could've told me this, because advisors are from the department you major in (I had 2 with a double major) and they don't really talk across departments.

Moral of the story for lurkers: Be your own advisor, work out the requirements as best you can, and then refuse to accept "I dunno" for an answer when you need clarification!

Quoted because I can only give it one love-it. It sounds like you're looking for confirmation from your advisor more than anything, since you have a plan.

I may have been a little extreme - for every semester, I had three or four different "plans" to fit in requirements and prereqs. I knew some classes were offered at multiple times within a semester, while others were only offered once a semester - or, God forbid, once every spring but not in the fall, or vice versa. So I had backups for my backups I case those classes filled up.

Be your own adviser is the absolute best advice. My advisers were over the whole college within the university. Like, College of Science and Math had 5 advisers. College of Liberal Arts had 6. Stuff like that. They could not be any more specific than the course catalog anyway. All I relied on them to do was open my access to classes.

southernbelle0915

This kind of stuff happened to me when I was in college. I wish I knew then that they would be calling me all the time and sending multiple mailings a year asking for money. 

I would have gone straight to the fundraising department and been like, "you're going to be asking me for money right after I graduate... I want you to know that XYZ will influence my decision on what (if anything) to donate."

I'd probably also reach out to the administration office with the issue on your advisor. Tell them what's going on, that you want to switch advisors and why.

bethsmiles

Ditto everything @KatieinBklyn said. Be your own adviser. All the information you need is there to do so. It's pain but it will save you a lot of stress because for whatever reason it is difficult to find a good adviser. I just used my adviser the last semester to sign off on my graduation application. If I did need advice I went to a trusted professor.

You've already gotten good advice regarding your final, the only thing I would suggest is to start making phone calls or talking to people in person rather than e-mailing. Professors get so many e-mails during finals week that a lot will just set up an automatic response saying they will get to yours when they can.

KatieinBkln

.

I may have been a little extreme - for every semester, I had three or four different "plans" to fit in requirements and prereqs. I knew some classes were offered at multiple times within a semester, while others were only offered once a semester - or, God forbid, once every spring but not in the fall, or vice versa. So I had backups for my backups I case those classes filled up. 

LOL, are you me?

I loved messing around with this stuff. Maybe in my next job I should like, get paid to do it professionally, for others.

esstee33

Ditto everything @KatieinBkln said. I went to my advisor my first semester of both undergrad and grad school to map out exactly what requirements I needed to fulfill, and then mapped my own path from there. Once you figure out what language your course catalog is written in, you don't need an advisor anymore. 

Also, double-dipping like @AprilH81 suggests is how I entered my last year of college with a schedule full of classes that sounded interesting and fun, because all I had left to do was meet the minimum # of credits to graduate -- all the more specific stuff was long since taken care of. Music as a World Phenomenon counts as an art class AND a diversity class? Yes, please. Do that as much as you can! 

bizzy592

In this order, try the Dean of Students, the Ombuds, and the Registrar. All have a vested interest in student success & retention.

sarahufl

bizzy592 said:

In this order, try the Dean of Students, the Ombuds, and the Registrar. All have a vested interest in student success & retention.

Not always. If someone in my program went to the Registrar, they would have no idea what to tell them. It REALLY depends on the organization. And the Dean of Students often focuses on student life, not academic affairs.

Where I work- I would suggest (in this order) Faculty Member (which clearly isn't working), Program Admin (me, and I would do it for you), Program Director (he is not likely to do it, he would pass it to me, but he would at least light a fire under the ass of the faculty member), Academic Affairs (responsible for faculty, but would again, pass it back to me), THEN, maybe the Office of Student Affairs. They would also pass it back to me.

Bottom line is someone needs to help and it is BS that they won't, but make sure you are asking the right person.

wandajune6

Just be careful counting on advisers.

While this was years and years ago, I still hold a bit of a grudge against one of my college advisers. I had one for each major. I thought I would be graduating with 2 majors but found out while applying for graduation that an adviser gave me bad advice: I took one class too many in bucket A and was one short in bucket B. Basically, I took one higher level class more than I needed and was short one intro Spanish course. The requirements changed while I was in school and he never stayed updated. I graduated on time but with a major and a minor, not a second major.

AprilH81

wandajune6 said:

Just be careful counting on advisers.

While this was years and years ago, I still hold a bit of a grudge against one of my college advisers. I had one for each major. I thought I would be graduating with 2 majors but found out while applying for graduation that an adviser gave me bad advice: I took one class too many in bucket A and was one short in bucket B. Basically, I took one higher level class more than I needed and was short one intro Spanish course. The requirements changed while I was in school and he never stayed updated. I graduated on time but with a major and a minor, not a second major.

Usually graduation requirements are set in stone based on the year you are admitted as long as you continue to be a student.  

That totally sucks for you that you got screwed out of a double major.

KatieinBkln

wandajune6 said:

Just be careful counting on advisers.

While this was years and years ago, I still hold a bit of a grudge against one of my college advisers. I had one for each major. I thought I would be graduating with 2 majors but found out while applying for graduation that an adviser gave me bad advice: I took one class too many in bucket A and was one short in bucket B. Basically, I took one higher level class more than I needed and was short one intro Spanish course. The requirements changed while I was in school and he never stayed updated. I graduated on time but with a major and a minor, not a second major.

UGH, that is awful.

#TRUSTNOONE

bizzy592

sarahufl said:

bizzy592 said:

In this order, try the Dean of Students, the Ombuds, and the Registrar. All have a vested interest in student success & retention.

Not always. If someone in my program went to the Registrar, they would have no idea what to tell them. It REALLY depends on the organization. And the Dean of Students often focuses on student life, not academic affairs.

Where I work- I would suggest (in this order) Faculty Member (which clearly isn't working), Program Admin (me, and I would do it for you), Program Director (he is not likely to do it, he would pass it to me, but he would at least light a fire under the ass of the faculty member), Academic Affairs (responsible for faculty, but would again, pass it back to me), THEN, maybe the Office of Student Affairs. They would also pass it back to me.

Bottom line is someone needs to help and it is BS that they won't, but make sure you are asking the right person.

Agreed. At my institution, the 3 groups I mentioned would all get things done. But that may not be the case at yours. Advisor, instructor and department chair should all come first, but since none of them seem to be responsive, now is the time to knock on doors (not literally) until someone helps you.

hellosweetie1015

KatieinBkln said:

.

I may have been a little extreme - for every semester, I had three or four different "plans" to fit in requirements and prereqs. I knew some classes were offered at multiple times within a semester, while others were only offered once a semester - or, God forbid, once every spring but not in the fall, or vice versa. So I had backups for my backups I case those classes filled up. 

LOL, are you me?

I loved messing around with this stuff. Maybe in my next job I should like, get paid to do it professionally, for others.

Possibly. I'm helping my incoming-freshman sister plan out a few for practice this weekend!