Excluding immediate family

[Deleted User]

We went on a cruise with my fiance's family (dad and stepmom with siblings) for Christmas, where we also got engaged. We had major problems with his step sister. She pretty much ruined the entire week for us, complaining (and getting into fights about) how nobody acknowledged her "engagement" like they did with ours and how everyone likes us more. The whole cruise ended in a blow out, with her calling us fat slobs and scumbags. Her "fiance (they put they were engaged on Facebook but never actually were)" was pounding on our door threatening us. It was a huge mess. She never apologized, and we just completely cut her out of our lives since we got back. My fiance has told his parents numerous times that she isn't invited, and his stepmom insists on bringing their daughter (fiance's niece) with them, which is fine. I could tell they are not happy with his decision, however. When I have mentioned it to other people, they said that it is rude of us not to invite her. My fiance also never got along with his mom, which he also does not want to invite. She has treated him badly growing up, which I can understand. She also got mad she did not know of our engagement before he proposed. I want to leave these decisions up to him, but I am regretful for not including these people and don't want to cause drama with my new family before we even become family. Opinions?

[Deleted User]

When it comes to immediate family, I think it's always appropriate to extend the invitation.   Yes, these people's actions were very rude and childish; however, I always think it's better to be the bigger person.   Are you willing to cut out these people from your lives forever?   

I see your wedding isn't until 2017.  You have a lot of time to think about this.  There is also a lot that can happen in that time frame.   You have until 8 weeks before your wedding (when invites go out) to make this decision.  I wouldn't stress out about it now. 

AddieCake

We didn't invite my husband's grandparents because they are assholes who have little to do with him. I have cut numerous family out of my life over the years and don't at all regret it. Just because you are related to me doesn't give you a pass to be shitty to me.

Viczaesar

heyitsnicolelee said:

We went on a cruise with my fiance's family (dad and stepmom with siblings) for Christmas, where we also got engaged. We had major problems with his step sister. She pretty much ruined the entire week for us, complaining (and getting into fights about) how nobody acknowledged her "engagement" like they did with ours and how everyone likes us more. The whole cruise ended in a blow out, with her calling us fat slobs and scumbags. Her "fiance (they put they were engaged on Facebook but never actually were)" was pounding on our door threatening us. It was a huge mess. She never apologized, and we just completely cut her out of our lives since we got back. My fiance has told his parents numerous times that she isn't invited, and his stepmom insists on bringing their daughter (fiance's niece) with them, which is fine. I could tell they are not happy with his decision, however. When I have mentioned it to other people, they said that it is rude of us not to invite her. My fiance also never got along with his mom, which he also does not want to invite. She has treated him badly growing up, which I can understand. She also got mad she did not know of our engagement before he proposed. I want to leave these decisions up to him, but I am regretful for not including these people and don't want to cause drama with my new family before we even become family. Opinions?

It's fine not to invite either of them if you don't want them at your wedding, but I suggest you stop telling people about it.  They can't express an opinion about something they don't know. 

Jen4948

Knottie29408529 said:

When it comes to immediate family, I think it's always appropriate to extend the invitation.   Yes, these people's actions were very rude and childish; however, I always think it's better to be the bigger person.   Are you willing to cut out these people from your lives forever?   

I see your wedding isn't until 2017.  You have a lot of time to think about this.  There is also a lot that can happen in that time frame.   You have until 8 weeks before your wedding (when invites go out) to make this decision.  I wouldn't stress out about it now. 

I disagree that it's always better to be "the bigger person." There are three times when it is not: 1) with people who, when you give an inch, take a mile, 2) with people who are BSC, and 3) when other circumstances don't allow it.

It sounds like this stepsister is both 1 and 2.

SP29

You are not required to invite anybody to your wedding.

I will also agree that your wedding is still a ways away, so let it be for now and make the decision in the future. Relationships change, you never know what will happen.

Stop telling people they aren't invited and there is no one to judge your decision. If people ask, you can say, "We haven't finalized our guest list yet" or "The wedding is so far away, we're not even thinking about the guest list yet". 

[Deleted User]

Since your wedding is still so far away when the topic comes up of who you are inviting or aren't inviting, I would just your future in laws that right now his sister isn't invited but you never know what could happen over time and if they are able to work out their difference between now and when the invites go out, it would be great and you would love to invite her. And as for his mom, I agree with letting hit be his choice, see how things are between then also as it gets closer. All you can do is ask him before sending out invites "Are you sure you don't want to invite your mom? This is a major life event and I don't want you to have any regrets." If he still says no, then just drop it and support his decision.

novella1186

Sharing DNA with someone does not make them family. You're under no obligation to invite people you want/have no connection to. 

We didn't invite one of my dad''s sisters to our wedding (his other two sisters were invited) because she's a horrible bitch and none of us keep in contact with her. I don't consider her family in any way. 

And I agree with PP, stop talking to other people about this (it's pretty much airing your dirty laundry in public. This is none of their business, and they can't know the entire situation so their opinion probably isn't very accurate. Yes in general it may be thought of as rude not to invite a sibling, but if that sibling is toxic and awful then how is that rude?) and you have a long time to figure this out. Let it rest. 

emmaaa

You don't have to invite someone who is toxic to your life (and threatening to your family). Just be prepared for that to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Not inviting her will most likely end any relationship you might have with her for good, not that that sounds like a bad thing.

Since your wedding isn't for two more years, you have a little over a year to really decide. Things between y'all could change between now and then, but if they don't, I wouldn't want to invite her either.

arrrghmatey

You still have some time before your guest list needs to be finalized. That being said, you do not need to invite them to your wedding, but it would be a good idea to stop telling people that they are not invited, just in case things change. It's none of their business, anyway, and it will save you drama along the way. 

And if someone threatened me or my FI, they sure as hell wouldn't be invited to my wedding.

CMGragain

1.  Your guest list is no one's business except yours.  Stop discussing it.
2.  Give this some time.  Things change.  Do not make any final decisions until it is time to send out the invitations.
3.  Your FSIL and her FI won't disappear after your wedding.  They will be connected by family.  Be careful about cutting off relations unless you both agree, and have good reason.  Consequences can be huge.
4.  It wouldn't be the end of the world for you to extend an invitation to your wedding.  It makes you look like the better person.  In SOME families, past bad behavior is ignored.  (Denial.) Does your FI's family function like this?  If they do, it will be hard to deal with it.

bb2016

I think it's best to stop talking about it and wait until you have to send invitations out to decide what you and your FI want to do. My uncle and my mom are going through some drama and I really don't want him or his wife at my wedding because of how they've acted recently. BUT I'm not getting married until next June so I know I can just let it be for now. Perhaps everyone will make up before I even have to make a decision. Right now I have them on my guest list so I can figure them into the budget if I choose to invite them. 

MandyMost

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

Jen4948

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

If they aren't capable of healthy relationships with the OP, then not having relationships with them might well be the best thing for the OP, in which case it doesn't matter if the relationships don't recover or they take it as a slight if they're not invited to their wedding. Being toxic has consequences, one of which is that you (generic) won't get invited to a wedding or special occasion of the person you (again generic) are toxic to. 

[Deleted User]

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

MairePoppy

When the time comes to finalize your guest list, your fi should make the decision on whether or not to invite his family members. You should support him in whatever he decides. 

MandyMost

adk19 said:

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MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

I didn't say you ARE cutting off the people you don't invite, but I do believe that you should be prepared for people to take it personally. Clearly the smaller the wedding the less personal people should take not being invited. But some people will be offended at not being invited, even if you did elope. If it is crucial for you to keep a relationship with someone, then you should consider what it means to not invite that person.  Hopefully someone who you care about, and who cares about you, will understand reasons why you didn't invite them to something. But not everyone is rational.

If you have a toxic relationship and are willing to let that relationship go, definitely don't invite them! But if you're not ready to let the relationship go, you should really consider inviting them to your wedding.

[Deleted User]

MandyMost said:

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adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

I didn't say you ARE cutting off the people you don't invite, but I do believe that you should be prepared for people to take it personally. Clearly the smaller the wedding the less personal people should take not being invited. But some people will be offended at not being invited, even if you did elope. If it is crucial for you to keep a relationship with someone, then you should consider what it means to not invite that person.  Hopefully someone who you care about, and who cares about you, will understand reasons why you didn't invite them to something. But not everyone is rational.

If you have a toxic relationship and are willing to let that relationship go, definitely don't invite them! But if you're not ready to let the relationship go, you should really consider inviting them to your wedding.

So, just because my mother will take it personally if I elope means that I should do something I don't want to do and have guests at my wedding?  It is crucial to me to keep a relationship with my mother, therefore I must invite her.  

I want to elope.  Just me and him on a beach somewhere; spend $20 on dry cleaning and whatever for a license, maybe throw $100 at a photography student for half an hour to capture the event.  My mother will be sad, so I must invite my mom and dad.  If I invite MY parents, I have to invite HIS parents.  If we invite our parents, we need to inform our siblings and invite them and their spouses.  Our families have now heard about this so I'll have to include some super close cousins and he'll have to include some super close aunts and uncles.  Since we're now inviting people, we might as well included our BFFs.  We have to host everyone we invite to something after the ceremony so we're now buying lunch or appetizers for 20 people.  So much for a casual elopement on the beach, all because I'm concerned about whether someone will take not being invited to something personally and cut me out of their life.  Sounds reasonable.

Jen4948

MandyMost said:

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adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

I didn't say you ARE cutting off the people you don't invite, but I do believe that you should be prepared for people to take it personally. Clearly the smaller the wedding the less personal people should take not being invited. But some people will be offended at not being invited, even if you did elope. If it is crucial for you to keep a relationship with someone, then you should consider what it means to not invite that person.  Hopefully someone who you care about, and who cares about you, will understand reasons why you didn't invite them to something. But not everyone is rational.

If you have a toxic relationship and are willing to let that relationship go, definitely don't invite them! But if you're not ready to let the relationship go, you should really consider inviting them to your wedding.

The reason for not inviting someone may have nothing to do with your relationship with them.  If I exclude someone I don't feel particularly close to, like a co-worker or a distant relative whom I seldom see, from my wedding, does that mean that I have to "let the relationship go" ?

Sorry, but I don't think one has to consider future relationships with everyone one chooses not to invite to one's wedding.  And if they choose to interpret it as a "slap in the face," or take it personally, well, they're the ones with the entitled, immature attitudes.  The only three people entitled to be at my wedding are me, my FI, and the officiant.  No one else is "entitled" to be there.

MyNameIsNot

adk19 said:

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MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

Jen4948

MyNameIsNot said:

show previous quotes

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

OliveOilsMom

heyitsnicolelee said:

I want to leave these decisions up to him, but I am regretful for not including these people and don't want to cause drama with my new family before we even become family.

As to the above, it can be hard to understand difficult family relations, when you have grown up with normal family relations (this is just a guess that you have based on your post).  Your FI has grown up with this family dynamic and it is his to navigate.  You should speak to your FI about this again closer to the wedding, give your opinion on why you think these people should/should not be invited, then allow him to make the final decision and respect that final decision.

OfftheMap27

You have to follow your heart on this one, and make a choice when the time is right.

My fiancé has three sisters, one of which has been a scum bag his whole life, we are not inviting her. We'll still see her at holidays, and not engage with her as we always do. Us getting married isn't going to change the fact that she sucks.

MyNameIsNot

Jen4948 said:

show previous quotes

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

Jen4948

MyNameIsNot said:

show previous quotes

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

But we don't know that the stepsister's behavior happened only on that one cruise.  The OP didn't say, but it might have been going on all along.  And even if it happened only that one time, it's still a red flag that needs to be addressed before she is invited to join the family again.  It needs to be made clear to her that behavior like that won't be tolerated ever again, and will result in her not being invited to future family events. 

Yes, the FI is the one who needs to make that clear to her as far as the wedding goes, but it should not just be shrugged off and the OP blamed for "not one sided behavior here" because you don't know what the OP's behavior was like on that cruise.  And threats of violence do constitute an exception to any rule of etiquette about inviting people who make them.  Safety trumps etiquette.

MyNameIsNot

Jen4948 said:

show previous quotes

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

But we don't know that the stepsister's behavior happened only on that one cruise.  The OP didn't say, but it might have been going on all along.  And even if it happened only that one time, it's still a red flag that needs to be addressed before she is invited to join the family again.  It needs to be made clear to her that behavior like that won't be tolerated ever again, and will result in her not being invited to future family events. 

Yes, the FI is the one who needs to make that clear to her as far as the wedding goes, but it should not just be shrugged off and the OP blamed for "not one sided behavior here" because you don't know what the OP's behavior was like on that cruise.

Oh please. You know full well that if this were just an example of a pattern, OP would have included it in the OP.

I don't know why you are assuming that I'm saying it should just be shrugged off. I'm saying it's short sighted to end the relationship over an isolated incident. Not ending a relationship =/= ignoring bad behavior. By your logic, saying we shouldn't execute shoplifters means we shouldn't punish them. 

The whole thing should be addressed by OP's FI, ideally in a clear-the-air conversation in which sister's engagement is acknowledged along with her bad behavior, and not one that threatens the wedding invitation. 

Jen4948

MyNameIsNot said:

show previous quotes

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

But we don't know that the stepsister's behavior happened only on that one cruise.  The OP didn't say, but it might have been going on all along.  And even if it happened only that one time, it's still a red flag that needs to be addressed before she is invited to join the family again.  It needs to be made clear to her that behavior like that won't be tolerated ever again, and will result in her not being invited to future family events. 

Yes, the FI is the one who needs to make that clear to her as far as the wedding goes, but it should not just be shrugged off and the OP blamed for "not one sided behavior here" because you don't know what the OP's behavior was like on that cruise.

Oh please. You know full well that if this were just an example of a pattern, OP would have included it in the OP.

I don't know why you are assuming that I'm saying it should just be shrugged off. I'm saying it's short sighted to end the relationship over an isolated incident. Not ending a relationship =/= ignoring bad behavior. By your logic, saying we shouldn't execute shoplifters means we shouldn't punish them. 

The whole thing should be addressed by OP's FI, ideally in a clear-the-air conversation in which sister's engagement is acknowledged along with her bad behavior, and not one that threatens the wedding invitation. 

The bolded is a bullshit stretch that in no way applies to what I said.  Where the fuck did you pull that out of?

I agree with your last paragraph, but if the sister and her FI refuse to take responsibility for their actions and make clear that they're not going to respect the feelings of the family members they went out of their way to hurt, then neither should be invited.  They've made clear that they don't give a fuck about their "relationships" with the family, so there wouldn't be any "relationship" with them worth inviting them to the wedding over.  It would be a consequence of their desire to be rude, hostile, and threatening-and they'd deserve not to be invited.

MandyMost

adk19 said:

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MandyMost said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

I didn't say you ARE cutting off the people you don't invite, but I do believe that you should be prepared for people to take it personally. Clearly the smaller the wedding the less personal people should take not being invited. But some people will be offended at not being invited, even if you did elope. If it is crucial for you to keep a relationship with someone, then you should consider what it means to not invite that person.  Hopefully someone who you care about, and who cares about you, will understand reasons why you didn't invite them to something. But not everyone is rational.

If you have a toxic relationship and are willing to let that relationship go, definitely don't invite them! But if you're not ready to let the relationship go, you should really consider inviting them to your wedding.

So, just because my mother will take it personally if I elope means that I should do something I don't want to do and have guests at my wedding?  It is crucial to me to keep a relationship with my mother, therefore I must invite her.  

I want to elope.  Just me and him on a beach somewhere; spend $20 on dry cleaning and whatever for a license, maybe throw $100 at a photography student for half an hour to capture the event.  My mother will be sad, so I must invite my mom and dad.  If I invite MY parents, I have to invite HIS parents.  If we invite our parents, we need to inform our siblings and invite them and their spouses.  Our families have now heard about this so I'll have to include some super close cousins and he'll have to include some super close aunts and uncles.  Since we're now inviting people, we might as well included our BFFs.  We have to host everyone we invite to something after the ceremony so we're now buying lunch or appetizers for 20 people.  So much for a casual elopement on the beach, all because I'm concerned about whether someone will take not being invited to something personally and cut me out of their life.  Sounds reasonable.

You just summarized the reason why a lot of people don't elope. They know it would make their friends/family sad, and they choose to keep their friends/family happy and give up on their dream of eloping. 

If you know eloping would hurt your mother and you choose to do it anyway, then you need to own that choice and what it means, including if it means damaging your relationship with your mother. That's all I'm saying.

And I stand by the idea that you have to accept that people may be hurt if they're not invited to your wedding, and you need to accept the potential consequences. Will a coworker or friendly acquaintance be hurt if they're not invited? Maybe. Do you care? Probably not, since you're not very close with them. Will your aunts and uncles care if you're not inviting any aunts and uncles? Maybe. Do you care? Maybe. Are you willing to have your aunts and uncles pissed off so you can have a smaller wedding you want? Maybe. I don't know. You have to make that decision. And will one sibling be mad if you invite all the other siblings but not them. Probably. How mad? I don't know, but maybe very mad. Maybe it will permanently damage your relationship. Are you OK with that? I don't know, that's up to you. These are the things you have to ask yourself when you make your guest list.

But really, this is not very different than any other decision! If you moved across the country your family might be hurt. But you have to make the choice that's right for you--keep them happy and stay in your hometown, or live your own life and move across the country. But if you choose the latter, you have to accept you may never be as close with your family again. That's life. 

MyNameIsNot

Jen4948 said:

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MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

But we don't know that the stepsister's behavior happened only on that one cruise.  The OP didn't say, but it might have been going on all along.  And even if it happened only that one time, it's still a red flag that needs to be addressed before she is invited to join the family again.  It needs to be made clear to her that behavior like that won't be tolerated ever again, and will result in her not being invited to future family events. 

Yes, the FI is the one who needs to make that clear to her as far as the wedding goes, but it should not just be shrugged off and the OP blamed for "not one sided behavior here" because you don't know what the OP's behavior was like on that cruise.

Oh please. You know full well that if this were just an example of a pattern, OP would have included it in the OP.

I don't know why you are assuming that I'm saying it should just be shrugged off. I'm saying it's short sighted to end the relationship over an isolated incident. Not ending a relationship =/= ignoring bad behavior. By your logic, saying we shouldn't execute shoplifters means we shouldn't punish them. 

The whole thing should be addressed by OP's FI, ideally in a clear-the-air conversation in which sister's engagement is acknowledged along with her bad behavior, and not one that threatens the wedding invitation. 

The bolded is a bullshit stretch that in no way applies to what I said.  Where the fuck did you pull that out of?

I agree with your last paragraph, but if the sister and her FI refuse to take responsibility for their actions and make clear that they're not going to respect the feelings of the family members they went out of their way to hurt, then neither should be invited.  They've made clear that they don't give a fuck about their "relationships" with the family, so there wouldn't be any "relationship" with them worth inviting them to the wedding over.  It would be a consequence of their desire to be rude, hostile, and threatening-and they'd deserve not to be invited.

It's called an analogy. 

Jen4948

MyNameIsNot said:

show previous quotes

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

But we don't know that the stepsister's behavior happened only on that one cruise.  The OP didn't say, but it might have been going on all along.  And even if it happened only that one time, it's still a red flag that needs to be addressed before she is invited to join the family again.  It needs to be made clear to her that behavior like that won't be tolerated ever again, and will result in her not being invited to future family events. 

Yes, the FI is the one who needs to make that clear to her as far as the wedding goes, but it should not just be shrugged off and the OP blamed for "not one sided behavior here" because you don't know what the OP's behavior was like on that cruise.

Oh please. You know full well that if this were just an example of a pattern, OP would have included it in the OP.

I don't know why you are assuming that I'm saying it should just be shrugged off. I'm saying it's short sighted to end the relationship over an isolated incident. Not ending a relationship =/= ignoring bad behavior. By your logic, saying we shouldn't execute shoplifters means we shouldn't punish them. 

The whole thing should be addressed by OP's FI, ideally in a clear-the-air conversation in which sister's engagement is acknowledged along with her bad behavior, and not one that threatens the wedding invitation. 

The bolded is a bullshit stretch that in no way applies to what I said.  Where the fuck did you pull that out of?

I agree with your last paragraph, but if the sister and her FI refuse to take responsibility for their actions and make clear that they're not going to respect the feelings of the family members they went out of their way to hurt, then neither should be invited.  They've made clear that they don't give a fuck about their "relationships" with the family, so there wouldn't be any "relationship" with them worth inviting them to the wedding over.  It would be a consequence of their desire to be rude, hostile, and threatening-and they'd deserve not to be invited.

It's called an analogy. 

It's still BS and has no logic to it at all.

MyNameIsNot

Jen4948 said:

show previous quotes

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

Jen4948 said:

MyNameIsNot said:

adk19 said:

MandyMost said:

Don't exclude anyone from your wedding that you're not willing to cut off entirely from your life. It's fine to invite or not invite anyone you want, but you can't expect them to not take it as a slight. Just own your decision, whatever it is, and don't be surprised if your relationship with someone you didn't invite doesn't recover.

But as others have said, don't finalize your guest list until the invites go out. Just make sure to book a venue big enough to invite everyone you think you might invite, and then finalize the guest list before invites go out. 

By this logic everyone who elopes or has a private ceremony is cutting off everyone they know from their lives.  I don't believe that is a valid leap.  Sometimes you just don't want to invite someone, I don't see why that should completely end the relationship.

Excluding a sibling from an elopement where everyone is excluded is very different than excluding a sibling from an event that includes the rest of the family.

Surely you can see how singling out one sibling could be a relationship ending move. 

If that particular sibling has treated the OP in a toxic way, then ending the relationship may not be a bad thing. "Relationships" =/= "lie down and be a doormat for abuse by B/GFs of siblings who won't require their B/GFs to treat their family members with respect."

I never said the relationship needed to be salvaged, only that excluding the sibling could ruin it. Ultimately, it isn't OP's decision to make. The point is that deciding to exclude a sibling from one's wedding is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and it shouldn't be reactionary. 

But I'll go ahead and go on record and say that cutting a sister out of your life over her (decidedly shitastic) behavior on one cruise is pretty short sighted.  Based on what the OP said about the sister's engagement not being "real" despite she and her FI announcing it, it sounds like bad behavior isn't one sided here.  

But we don't know that the stepsister's behavior happened only on that one cruise.  The OP didn't say, but it might have been going on all along.  And even if it happened only that one time, it's still a red flag that needs to be addressed before she is invited to join the family again.  It needs to be made clear to her that behavior like that won't be tolerated ever again, and will result in her not being invited to future family events. 

Yes, the FI is the one who needs to make that clear to her as far as the wedding goes, but it should not just be shrugged off and the OP blamed for "not one sided behavior here" because you don't know what the OP's behavior was like on that cruise.

Oh please. You know full well that if this were just an example of a pattern, OP would have included it in the OP.

I don't know why you are assuming that I'm saying it should just be shrugged off. I'm saying it's short sighted to end the relationship over an isolated incident. Not ending a relationship =/= ignoring bad behavior. By your logic, saying we shouldn't execute shoplifters means we shouldn't punish them. 

The whole thing should be addressed by OP's FI, ideally in a clear-the-air conversation in which sister's engagement is acknowledged along with her bad behavior, and not one that threatens the wedding invitation. 

The bolded is a bullshit stretch that in no way applies to what I said.  Where the fuck did you pull that out of?

I agree with your last paragraph, but if the sister and her FI refuse to take responsibility for their actions and make clear that they're not going to respect the feelings of the family members they went out of their way to hurt, then neither should be invited.  They've made clear that they don't give a fuck about their "relationships" with the family, so there wouldn't be any "relationship" with them worth inviting them to the wedding over.  It would be a consequence of their desire to be rude, hostile, and threatening-and they'd deserve not to be invited.

It's called an analogy. 

It's still BS and has no logic to it at all.

Let me try to break this down for you. I said that ending a relationship with a sibling over one act of bad behavior is excessive. You decided that meant the bad behavior should be totally ignored.

Applying the same logic, if I had said that shoplifters should not be executed, you would decide that I mean they shouldn't be punished at all.

You are taking the position that if I say don't use the nuclear option, it means don't do anything. If you really can't see how the analogy works, I can't help you.