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Why not divorce?

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Re: Why not divorce?

  • lyndausvi said:
    I think it has more to do that, at least in this country, divorce has always been around. Sure there was a sigma, but it has always been an option here.  When new immigrants came to this country they were happy to be able to practice their religion with persecution, the fact that the country legally allowed divorce wasn't an issue for them individually.  If they were Catholic or Orthodox Jew, they still condemn divorce and make it really hard within the religions to get one. 

    As time went on it was a norm.  It would be hard to gain any support for laws to get rid of divorce.   Besides who is going to support not being able to divorce their beating spouse?   Tough sell regardless of their religion.  

    It's also hard to make something legal (and has been for 200+ years), now illegal.  It took a war to get rid of slavery.  It took Brown vs the Board of Education of Topeka to start getting rid of segregation.   They tried prohibition only to have it a big fat fail.

    Divorce has been around for so long it would be next to impossible to pass a law making it illegal here in the states.  They will never win.



    Homosexuality acts have been and still is illegal in some states  (well, laws on the books, but not sure it's enforced). A lot of religions were against homosexuality (even ones who accept them now). Homosexulality has only recently been "accepted".  Homosexuals make up a small percentage of the population.   It's easy for the Christian right to bully this group of people.    People fight for what they think they can win. They fear the unknown. They don't like change. They think well it's been illegal for so long, why change?   They are just plain assholes. 

     Of course, people pick and choose what they want to believe too. 




    Totally not the point, but that's not true anymore. In Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court found state laws prohibiting homosexual acts unconstitutional in the early 2000's. It actually made its way to the SC because it was enforced. (Side note, it was also released on June 26. Most landmark SCOTUS decisions are released in late June, but it's still a neat coincidence.) Still, it's legal to fire someone for being gay or trans in something like half the states; the fight for equality is long from over.

    I agree with Lynda though. I think the hypocrisy in condemning same sex marriages while ignoring divorce has quite a bit to do with the notion that divorce has been part of our society for as long as anyone can remember, and is sort of seen as just the way it is. The right thinks (or thought) they could still "win" this one. 

    It would be nice if one of these people would show up and actually answer, but I don't see that happening. 

    That makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't. In other words, if you are truly against gay marriage based solely on your religious faith, then you would feel just a strongly about divorce, if not more so. To look the other way because that's how it's always been would be to go against your values and faith. Isn't that the argument against baking the cakes? Wouldn't a baker who truly believed in the sanctity of marriage been refusing to bake cakes from remarriages from day 1 of their business in addition to refusing service to gay couples?
  • Additionally, I've actually been to a church where the pastor is divorced and remarried. How does that make any sense?
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited June 2015

    That makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't. In other words, if you are truly against gay marriage based solely on your religious faith, then you would feel just a strongly about divorce, if not more so. To look the other way because that's how it's always been would be to go against your values and faith. Isn't that the argument against baking the cakes? Wouldn't a baker who truly believed in the sanctity of marriage been refusing to bake cakes from remarriages from day 1 of their business in addition to refusing service to gay couples?
    ___________________________
    I probably jacked up the boxes.


    To be honest, it's because I don't think that the majority of the religious right who oppose same sex marriage have given it that much thought. I think it has more to do with hearing something from the pulpit or from some Mike Huckabee politician, and just going with it. The religious leaders and the politicians know they can't "win" divorce, so they don't bother to wind people up about it. These people don't have anyone telling them what they think about banning divorce, so they don't think about it. 

    I'm pretty cynical about the religious right. 
  • Additionally, I've actually been to a church where the pastor is divorced and remarried. How does that make any sense?


    Depends on the Church too.  I don't really go anymore, but I grew up United Church of Canada. We've had a rainbow flag on our Church sign since the new building was built 10-15 years ago and a gay Reverend in the past, so we love everybody!!!  Other denominations feel differently, obviously, and wouldn't allow this in their church

  • I am not religious, but I can totally answer this: People like to pick and choose what they want to follow. I think there are ALOT of things in the bible that the majority of christians dont follow, they just like to make homosexuality a sticking point
    This.  People also choose to interpret archaic shit in a manner that suits their own agenda.  Case in point, born again Christians interpreting the following literally and thinking that no one else is actually a Christian, when as PPs have already pointed out, a Christian is any religion that believes Jesus was the son of God: "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."  This is the passage they used to quote to me to prove me wrong when I tried to explain to them that, yes, Catholics ARE Christians.

    And on the topic of "traditional" marriage as per the Bible, well:
    image

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • lyndausvi said:
    Additionally, I've actually been to a church where the pastor is divorced and remarried. How does that make any sense?
    There are sub-sets in all religions.  Christians have Catholics, Baptists, Quakers, Church of England, Protestants, Amish, etc.   They all have a similar foundation, but have different interruptions of the scriptures.   

    There are Orthodox Jews and reform Jews.   Making some Jews very strict on being kosher and others are kosher on high holidays.

     Even the christian old testament is an interruption of the Jewish Torah.

    Judaism, Catholicism and Protestants all believe in the 10 commandments, yet they each differ on how they are broken up.    Judaism and Protestants  put coveting property or another's spouse together.   Catholics separate them.  Catholicism and Judaism put prohibition of idolatry and worshiping other gods together.  Protestants separates the two.   3 different religions, all 3 different interruption  of the same thing.

    I guess I'm saying that it's not as cut and dry as you would want it to be.


    This has been going around FB, but there is some truth on how people choose to interrupt things differently.

    image

    And then there are some Jews who are never Kosher at all. I mean, my family never served a big ole plate of shrimp or pork on Passover, but we also didn't separate the serving platters and whatever. 

    I know there are rabbis who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons (I'm not sure specifically what their reasons are, but I'm sure it's some twisted nonsense they yanked out of the Torah). Our temple is reform and really liberal, and the current rabbi supports gay marriage. And she's a woman. And she's awesome. 

    To me, this is just more evidence that any religious argument against gay marriage is misinterpreted bullshit of picking and choosing, like PP have said. 
    image

  • kmmssg said:

    These are "my" thoughts as a Christian and I'm not preaching to anyone.  Just sharing what I believe.

    I consider myself a moderate Republican and a Christian.  And I am divorced/remarried.  While I wasn't really searching to see if my grounds for divorce were scripturally based, they were.  He was a serial cheater.

    I feel that God is a loving God - love that we can't comprehend.  God does not want people with cheaters, abusers, alcohol/drug abusers.  I think it is important to see if a marriage can be saved (as long as no one is in danger) but sometimes it can't. I just can't buy that God would want us to be alone for our entire lives because we divorced an abusive spouse.  For the most part I think we are made/wired to be with someone we love deeply and are committed to.

    Sometimes  you can have a Christian who truly does not want a divorce/does not believe in divorce, but their spouse says, "I'm outta here."  There isn't much they can do if the other person wants a divorce and won't reconcile.

    The Old Testament is the old covenant and the New Testament is the new covenant we have in Christ. I see the things in Leviticus as the old covenant.  While I'm not aware of anything listed there being in the New Testament my own feeling deep in my soul is that they aren't relevant in the new covenant.  Just like people sacrificing their sons on an altar happened in the old testament, it doesn't happen in the New Testament. 

    As well as being  Christian, I am fascinated by science and I think that comes from God also.  I don't think being a Christian and believing the universe is eleventy billion years old are mutually exclusive.  I think everything was created by God and if He chose to start things with the big bang He is certainly capable of doing so.  No way do I believe the Earth is 6000 years old.  I know quite a few Christians who feel the same, and some who buy the 6000 year thing.

    Science has given us medicines and much of what we do and use in our everyday life.  Science has also shown that people are born straight or LGBTQ.  So, if I believe that Science has a strong basis and I believe that God made us all in his image, I believe that we were put here to be with and love the one we love whether they are a man, woman, alien, or a 2 headed purple minion. 

    I used to strongly hold the view that marriage is only between a man and a woman.  Probably about 3 or so years ago it just started rumbling in the pit of my soul whether or not that was right.  It really just kept bugging me that 2 people who love each other should be denied their right to do that.  I finally came to the conclusion that love is love. Life is hard and if you are fortunate enough to find someone to love and they love you back, that is a really wonderful thing.

    There ARE Christians who are for marriage equality but they don't get much media attention.  My FB newsfeed was loaded with comments by many Christian friends praising the SCOTUS decision and I have one friend who is blowing up my newsfeed with how our country is doomed now.  We are out there and our goal is to show the love of Christ humbly and to the very best our ability.  We just don't get much media attention.

    Thank you for this honest and refreshing perspective! As a liberal/Democrat agnostic I do not see enough of this rational kind of thinking (probably a media bias, as you point out). Could you please help talk some sense into the representatives of your party?!?
  • lyndausvi said:
    I think it has more to do that, at least in this country, divorce has always been around. Sure there was a sigma, but it has always been an option here.  When new immigrants came to this country they were happy to be able to practice their religion with persecution, the fact that the country legally allowed divorce wasn't an issue for them individually.  If they were Catholic or Orthodox Jew, they still condemn divorce and make it really hard within the religions to get one. 

    As time went on it was a norm.  It would be hard to gain any support for laws to get rid of divorce.   Besides who is going to support not being able to divorce their beating spouse?   Tough sell regardless of their religion.  

    It's also hard to make something legal (and has been for 200+ years), now illegal.  It took a war to get rid of slavery.  It took Brown vs the Board of Education of Topeka to start getting rid of segregation.   They tried prohibition only to have it a big fat fail.

    Divorce has been around for so long it would be next to impossible to pass a law making it illegal here in the states.  They will never win.



    Homosexuality acts have been and still is illegal in some states  (well, laws on the books, but not sure it's enforced). A lot of religions were against homosexuality (even ones who accept them now). Homosexulality has only recently been "accepted".  Homosexuals make up a small percentage of the population.   It's easy for the Christian right to bully this group of people.    People fight for what they think they can win. They fear the unknown. They don't like change. They think well it's been illegal for so long, why change?   They are just plain assholes. 

     Of course, people pick and choose what they want to believe too. 




    Totally agree.  There has also been a major shift in the Conservative Platform, their ideals and how they campaign.  Conservatism used to mean  conservative government, or power in the states hands, not the federal government.  Today, they campaign on what I call the 'fear of being the bottom rung of the ladder.'  We see it all the time:  "We can't raise minimum wage because I barely make more and work harder than that guy" or "Look at those crazy Muslims!  Christians would never force women to wear clothing, pray differently etc, they are so oppressive."

    Or finally, "if all people are sinners, then being gay must be the worst of all the sins so it's okay that I'm divorced, cheating, stealing, gambling etc because at least I'm not gay!"

    The collective conscious is now focused on keeping someone else down so people don't feel so bad about themselves instead of finding ways to lift everyone up together.
    image
  • First off, damn you The Knot! I wrote out this entire post and it not only didn't post, but it also disapeared, so here I am rewriting it. Grrr...

    Anywho, I have a sincere question for those of you out there who oppose gay marriage based on religious beliefs; specifically Christian beliefs.

    I understand the religious argument against gay marriage. I've seem Leviticus; I've heard the argument that although lots of stuff is considered a sin in the Bible, some don't count anymore but this one does because reasons. I got it.

    But what about divorce? There are 18 different Bible passages in the Old and New Testament condemning divorce. To divorce and remarry is to commit adultery; which is on of the Ten Commandments. It seems to me that divorce is condemned significantly more than homosexuality in the Bible. Homosexuality isn't even one of the Ten Commandments.

    So why aren't Christians who are publicly opposed to gay marriage also publicly opposed to divorce? Why aren't those who are campaigning against gay marriage also campaigning to make divorce illegal? If baking a cake for a gay couple makes them complicit in sin, why aren't they also refusing to bake cakes for second and third marriages in order to not be complicit in their sin of adultery?


    I can only speak from a Catholic point of view (I was brought up a Catholic but I do not believe in God or the church anymore).

    You see, the divorce here is not the issue.

    Catholics can separate or divorce. What they cannot do is get remarried. 

    If you get remarried, you are committing adultery, and can't take communion, or confess (and get absolution). So I guess if you die they believe you will go to hell.

    So I don't see how in their eyes this is not "as bad" as gay marriage.



  • Sorry everyone.  You guys are right and I realized I should have stated it more along the lines of "founded by many denominations of Christian faiths."

    Sorry if I offended anyone.
    @ohmrs2014 - nothing offensive, just one of those things :)

     

  • First off, damn you The Knot! I wrote out this entire post and it not only didn't post, but it also disapeared, so here I am rewriting it. Grrr...

    Anywho, I have a sincere question for those of you out there who oppose gay marriage based on religious beliefs; specifically Christian beliefs.

    I understand the religious argument against gay marriage. I've seem Leviticus; I've heard the argument that although lots of stuff is considered a sin in the Bible, some don't count anymore but this one does because reasons. I got it.

    But what about divorce? There are 18 different Bible passages in the Old and New Testament condemning divorce. To divorce and remarry is to commit adultery; which is on of the Ten Commandments. It seems to me that divorce is condemned significantly more than homosexuality in the Bible. Homosexuality isn't even one of the Ten Commandments.

    So why aren't Christians who are publicly opposed to gay marriage also publicly opposed to divorce? Why aren't those who are campaigning against gay marriage also campaigning to make divorce illegal? If baking a cake for a gay couple makes them complicit in sin, why aren't they also refusing to bake cakes for second and third marriages in order to not be complicit in their sin of adultery?


    I can only speak from a Catholic point of view (I was brought up a Catholic but I do not believe in God or the church anymore).

    You see, the divorce here is not the issue.

    Catholics can separate or divorce. What they cannot do is get remarried. 

    If you get remarried, you are committing adultery, and can't take communion, or confess (and get absolution). So I guess if you die they believe you will go to hell.

    So I don't see how in their eyes this is not "as bad" as gay marriage.


    Not wholly true - Catholics can have a previous marriage annulled to allow them to remarry, but it can be a long and painstaking process that doesn't always (though I've heard it's rare) end in the annulment.  Keep in mind as well that if a previously married non-Catholic wishes to be married to a Catholic in the Church, their non-Catholic marriage can also be annulled.  It happened to my parents:  parents married Methodist, parents divorced, father wanted to remarry Catholic, Methodist marriage annulled by Catholic tribunal.

     

  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited July 2015

    First off, damn you The Knot! I wrote out this entire post and it not only didn't post, but it also disapeared, so here I am rewriting it. Grrr...

    Anywho, I have a sincere question for those of you out there who oppose gay marriage based on religious beliefs; specifically Christian beliefs.

    I understand the religious argument against gay marriage. I've seem Leviticus; I've heard the argument that although lots of stuff is considered a sin in the Bible, some don't count anymore but this one does because reasons. I got it.

    But what about divorce? There are 18 different Bible passages in the Old and New Testament condemning divorce. To divorce and remarry is to commit adultery; which is on of the Ten Commandments. It seems to me that divorce is condemned significantly more than homosexuality in the Bible. Homosexuality isn't even one of the Ten Commandments.

    So why aren't Christians who are publicly opposed to gay marriage also publicly opposed to divorce? Why aren't those who are campaigning against gay marriage also campaigning to make divorce illegal? If baking a cake for a gay couple makes them complicit in sin, why aren't they also refusing to bake cakes for second and third marriages in order to not be complicit in their sin of adultery?


    I can only speak from a Catholic point of view (I was brought up a Catholic but I do not believe in God or the church anymore).

    You see, the divorce here is not the issue.

    Catholics can separate or divorce. What they cannot do is get remarried. 

    If you get remarried, you are committing adultery, and can't take communion, or confess (and get absolution). So I guess if you die they believe you will go to hell.

    So I don't see how in their eyes this is not "as bad" as gay marriage.


    Not wholly true - Catholics can have a previous marriage annulled to allow them to remarry, but it can be a long and painstaking process that doesn't always (though I've heard it's rare) end in the annulment.  Keep in mind as well that if a previously married non-Catholic wishes to be married to a Catholic in the Church, their non-Catholic marriage can also be annulled.  It happened to my parents:  parents married Methodist, parents divorced, father wanted to remarry Catholic, Methodist marriage annulled by Catholic tribunal.
    To add to this, if the first marriage was only a civil ceremony they might not need an annulment at all.   The Catholic church pretty much ignores civil only ceremonies.  They generally only care about church weddings (Catholic or otherwise).






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 


  • Additionally, I've actually been to a church where the pastor is divorced and remarried. How does that make any sense?



    Depends on the Church too.  I don't really go anymore, but I grew up United Church of Canada. We've had a rainbow flag on our Church sign since the new building was built 10-15 years ago and a gay Reverend in the past, so we love everybody!!!  Other denominations feel differently, obviously, and wouldn't allow this in their church

    We had a divorced pastor when I was younger. If I remember correctly, some "old school" congregants didn't like that and made things difficult until he took another call.

    I was raised Lutheran. Now, however, I identify as Lutheran, Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindu. When I was doing my yoga certification at the ashram, we were taught (or told) the belief that all religions are man-made and pretty much the same. I like that belief. That's how I live my life. I don't like a lot of things about a lot of religions (ie anti-homosexuality), but I see those as interpretations of the religion, not that religion itself. And those interpretations are wrong (yes, I'm wearing my judgy pants). I'm pretty sure Jesus said love everyone, and something about letting he who is without sin cast the first stone.
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2015

    First off, damn you The Knot! I wrote out this entire post and it not only didn't post, but it also disapeared, so here I am rewriting it. Grrr...

    Anywho, I have a sincere question for those of you out there who oppose gay marriage based on religious beliefs; specifically Christian beliefs.

    I understand the religious argument against gay marriage. I've seem Leviticus; I've heard the argument that although lots of stuff is considered a sin in the Bible, some don't count anymore but this one does because reasons. I got it.

    But what about divorce? There are 18 different Bible passages in the Old and New Testament condemning divorce. To divorce and remarry is to commit adultery; which is on of the Ten Commandments. It seems to me that divorce is condemned significantly more than homosexuality in the Bible. Homosexuality isn't even one of the Ten Commandments.

    So why aren't Christians who are publicly opposed to gay marriage also publicly opposed to divorce? Why aren't those who are campaigning against gay marriage also campaigning to make divorce illegal? If baking a cake for a gay couple makes them complicit in sin, why aren't they also refusing to bake cakes for second and third marriages in order to not be complicit in their sin of adultery?


    I can only speak from a Catholic point of view (I was brought up a Catholic but I do not believe in God or the church anymore).

    You see, the divorce here is not the issue.

    Catholics can separate or divorce. What they cannot do is get remarried. 

    If you get remarried, you are committing adultery, and can't take communion, or confess (and get absolution). So I guess if you die they believe you will go to hell.

    So I don't see how in their eyes this is not "as bad" as gay marriage.


    Not wholly true - Catholics can have a previous marriage annulled to allow them to remarry, but it can be a long and painstaking process that doesn't always (though I've heard it's rare) end in the annulment.  Keep in mind as well that if a previously married non-Catholic wishes to be married to a Catholic in the Church, their non-Catholic marriage can also be annulled.  It happened to my parents:  parents married Methodist, parents divorced, father wanted to remarry Catholic, Methodist marriage annulled by Catholic tribunal.
    Right, but an annulment isn't a given. In the case of divorce, all you have to do is prove that the marriage is irretrievably broken (or irreconcilable differences). Basically, one party says this marriage isn't going to be saved, and it's enough to meet the threshold. It's virtually unheard of for the Court to refuse to grant a divorce since the advent of no-fault divorce in the 60's & 70's. 

    With a Catholic annulment, you have to prove that your marriage is invalid because it didn't meet certain requirements. For example, if you were married outside the church, it would be null as to form, because you didn't go through the sacrament. You can also get an annulment if one of the parties deceived the other from the beginning. 

    If two people get married in the church but end up getting divorced, there's no guarantee that the tribunal will grant the annulment. So, tl;dr all this blabbing is just to say that an annulment isn't just a catholic divorce. 
  • FosmohFosmoh member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    @WinstonsGirl, so...the umbrella has gotten big. LGBTQ (and sometimes there are more letters), stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and queer. So lesbians are pretty much all women, gay is used for both gay men and sometimes lesbians use the word too (I do), bisexuals are...the bisexuals, trans are the trans people, and then we get to queer.

    So queer. In the acronym LGBTQ, queer often stands for people who identify as panasexual, demisexual, asexual, queer. Kind of ect, al. If you feel what you identify as belongs here, you are encompassed in this letter. Some people do identify as being queer. They simply state that they could fall for anyone regardless of gender but don't feel bisexual/pansexual is the right label for them either.

    I use the word queer (and others do as well) as all encompassing word to describe the community as a whole. We're the queer community. Whatever we are, gay or lesbian, or bi, or pan, or demi, or ace, or queer, or trans, or two spirited, or whatever label you want to call yourself. We're the queer community. Queer means different or weird. Talk to someone about how they felt before they realized they were not straight, and most of them will say "I felt different" or "I knew I was weird". So we're the queers. We're the weirdos and the freaks and the kids who were different at our core and couldn't figure out the word. So I like the word queer.

    Of course there are also assholes who use it in a derogatory manner. Fuck queer. Goddamn queers. Fuck you, you're a fucking queer. Well fuck them. I'm a fucking queer. They're goddamn right I am. And I am not ashamed of that fact. I am a fucking queer and I am fucking proud to be one. 


    This, this was amazing.  I felt like i could hear your voice in my head so passionate and strong.
    If i had any form of talent i would somehow make this into some anthem/song.

  • Fosmoh said:
    @WinstonsGirl, so...the umbrella has gotten big. LGBTQ (and sometimes there are more letters), stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and queer. So lesbians are pretty much all women, gay is used for both gay men and sometimes lesbians use the word too (I do), bisexuals are...the bisexuals, trans are the trans people, and then we get to queer.

    So queer. In the acronym LGBTQ, queer often stands for people who identify as panasexual, demisexual, asexual, queer. Kind of ect, al. If you feel what you identify as belongs here, you are encompassed in this letter. Some people do identify as being queer. They simply state that they could fall for anyone regardless of gender but don't feel bisexual/pansexual is the right label for them either.

    I use the word queer (and others do as well) as all encompassing word to describe the community as a whole. We're the queer community. Whatever we are, gay or lesbian, or bi, or pan, or demi, or ace, or queer, or trans, or two spirited, or whatever label you want to call yourself. We're the queer community. Queer means different or weird. Talk to someone about how they felt before they realized they were not straight, and most of them will say "I felt different" or "I knew I was weird". So we're the queers. We're the weirdos and the freaks and the kids who were different at our core and couldn't figure out the word. So I like the word queer.

    Of course there are also assholes who use it in a derogatory manner. Fuck queer. Goddamn queers. Fuck you, you're a fucking queer. Well fuck them. I'm a fucking queer. They're goddamn right I am. And I am not ashamed of that fact. I am a fucking queer and I am fucking proud to be one. 


    This, this was amazing.  I felt like i could hear your voice in my head so passionate and strong.
    If i had any form of talent i would somehow make this into some anthem/song.
    Really?
    Amor vincet omnia.... par liones.
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  • lyndausvi said:

    First off, damn you The Knot! I wrote out this entire post and it not only didn't post, but it also disapeared, so here I am rewriting it. Grrr...

    Anywho, I have a sincere question for those of you out there who oppose gay marriage based on religious beliefs; specifically Christian beliefs.

    I understand the religious argument against gay marriage. I've seem Leviticus; I've heard the argument that although lots of stuff is considered a sin in the Bible, some don't count anymore but this one does because reasons. I got it.

    But what about divorce? There are 18 different Bible passages in the Old and New Testament condemning divorce. To divorce and remarry is to commit adultery; which is on of the Ten Commandments. It seems to me that divorce is condemned significantly more than homosexuality in the Bible. Homosexuality isn't even one of the Ten Commandments.

    So why aren't Christians who are publicly opposed to gay marriage also publicly opposed to divorce? Why aren't those who are campaigning against gay marriage also campaigning to make divorce illegal? If baking a cake for a gay couple makes them complicit in sin, why aren't they also refusing to bake cakes for second and third marriages in order to not be complicit in their sin of adultery?


    I can only speak from a Catholic point of view (I was brought up a Catholic but I do not believe in God or the church anymore).

    You see, the divorce here is not the issue.

    Catholics can separate or divorce. What they cannot do is get remarried. 

    If you get remarried, you are committing adultery, and can't take communion, or confess (and get absolution). So I guess if you die they believe you will go to hell.

    So I don't see how in their eyes this is not "as bad" as gay marriage.


    Not wholly true - Catholics can have a previous marriage annulled to allow them to remarry, but it can be a long and painstaking process that doesn't always (though I've heard it's rare) end in the annulment.  Keep in mind as well that if a previously married non-Catholic wishes to be married to a Catholic in the Church, their non-Catholic marriage can also be annulled.  It happened to my parents:  parents married Methodist, parents divorced, father wanted to remarry Catholic, Methodist marriage annulled by Catholic tribunal.
    To add to this, if the first marriage was only a civil ceremony they might not need an annulment at all.   The Catholic church pretty much ignores civil only ceremonies.  They generally only care about church weddings (Catholic or otherwise).


    Yup. It depends on the Church but I looked into getting my marriage anulled and was told by my Church at the time that it wasn't necessary because it was a civil marriage and not recognized ny the Catholic Church. Yet another reason why I'm amazed when Catholics oppose civil gay marriage.

    And to some of the others that have posted, it's nice to see a Christian response that isn't hate filled. Of course it doesn't reallty a

     

    Fosmoh said:
    @WinstonsGirl, so...the umbrella has gotten big. LGBTQ (and sometimes there are more letters), stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and queer. So lesbians are pretty much all women, gay is used for both gay men and sometimes lesbians use the word too (I do), bisexuals are...the bisexuals, trans are the trans people, and then we get to queer.

    So queer. In the acronym LGBTQ, queer often stands for people who identify as panasexual, demisexual, asexual, queer. Kind of ect, al. If you feel what you identify as belongs here, you are encompassed in this letter. Some people do identify as being queer. They simply state that they could fall for anyone regardless of gender but don't feel bisexual/pansexual is the right label for them either.

    I use the word queer (and others do as well) as all encompassing word to describe the community as a whole. We're the queer community. Whatever we are, gay or lesbian, or bi, or pan, or demi, or ace, or queer, or trans, or two spirited, or whatever label you want to call yourself. We're the queer community. Queer means different or weird. Talk to someone about how they felt before they realized they were not straight, and most of them will say "I felt different" or "I knew I was weird". So we're the queers. We're the weirdos and the freaks and the kids who were different at our core and couldn't figure out the word. So I like the word queer.

    Of course there are also assholes who use it in a derogatory manner. Fuck queer. Goddamn queers. Fuck you, you're a fucking queer. Well fuck them. I'm a fucking queer. They're goddamn right I am. And I am not ashamed of that fact. I am a fucking queer and I am fucking proud to be one. 


    This, this was amazing.  I felt like i could hear your voice in my head so passionate and strong.
    If i had any form of talent i would somehow make this into some anthem/song.

    MI, is that you?
  • doeydodoeydo member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2015
    I can't answer this, since I have no problem with either.  However, I would guess that it's cos divorce doesn't make people as uncomfortable as gay marriage.  Divorce is more social acceptable than being gay though 50-60 years ago it wasn't, and people were having the same argument back then about how divorce was ruining marriage.  Also, many people I've known who are against gay marriage seem to be worried that gay people will try to seduce them, hit on them, ask them out, etc., and they're scared of being seen in those circles.  They don't seem to understand that gay people aren't going to be too interested in straight people who think they're going to hell and probably won't want to date them.  I'm pretty sure that the same people who are against gay marriage and the sam who would shave been against divorce 60 years ago too.  Plus as others have said, it's more convenient to jump on a bandwagon versus being debated about your thoughts and choices.  

    On another note, and to thread jack here, @vulgargirl @queerfemme and anyone else, maybe you ladies can answer this for me.  DH and I were discussing the different terms used in the LGBTQ acronym during Pride week.  He didn't understand why there was a differentiation between gay, lesbian and queer.  I said that I thought gay was used more by men, lesbian more by women and queer was all encompassing, and we started talking about the spectrum of sexuality too.  But I really have no idea if I got any of that right or not, so can someone with more knowledge than me please clarify when each is used?  
    Queer is an umbrella term that some people in the LGBTQ+ community use to describe themselves.  It originally was used as a slur against them in history (I think so, anyways) and they have been "taking it back", so to speak.  Some are uncomfortable being called queer.  Also, if you are cisgender and straight, I would not use the word "queer" if I were you, kind of similar to how white people just can't say a lot of words different races use to describe themselves or just say because they would be offending people and possibly come across as racist.  

    Also, at first I just assumed I was bisexual, because I knew I liked girls and I guessed I liked boys.  The feelings were different though, and I don't know how to describe it.  But after some soul searching and researching about sexualities and romantic orientations, I felt more comfortable with the more general term "queer" because I didn't feel any particular label applied to me very strongly.  After more exploration, I have accepted myself as a homosexual/lesbian and biromantic, but I'll also go by queer because it's just easier to explain, I find.  Anyways, the point I am trying to make is that some people do not find a particular label they identify with, maybe they are fluid in their sexuality or who knows, it depends on the person, but they might find a word like "queer" identifiable when the more specific ones are not.

    Now, as for "gay", yes it usually means men who are just sexually attracted to other men, but "Gay Pride Parade", "gay marriage", "gay rights", etc. are really for all LGBTQ+ people, so it has kind of become an umbrella term as well.
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