Can I be judgy? Would you also like to be judgy?

monkeysip

So H's older siblings have had a long history of borrowing money from his parents.  It's gone on for a long time, and they rarely ever pay it back.  H's parents complain about not having money because of it, but they keep loaning it out anyway.  

Whatever... not my business what they do with their money... yada yada.

But we recently found out that one of H's brothers still borrows lots of money all the time, AND is still buying weed.  I'm sorry... that just irritates the heck out of me.  You're 30-something years old, you have a young son, and you're still buying weed even though you have to borrow money from your parents all the time? I'm sure this makes me sound judgmental, but If you're so broke you have to borrow a lot of money, I'm sorry, you shouldn't be buying things like that.  And H's mom KNOWS, but doesn't know what to do because she worries if she doesn't lend the money, her grandson will suffer.  And she says he told her it's only "$5 or $10" once in a while, which I call total BS on.

Whew... just a vent.  Like I said, not our business, so H and I aren't going to say anything of course, but it still irritates me.  

Anyone want to be judgmental with me?

[Deleted User]

These stories make me feel bad.  Not your business now, but when it comes time to take care of them after retirement and they're living on meager savings / SS because their kids were taking from them, which one of the siblings do you think they (parents) are going to look to for help when needed?

YOU GUYS since these other jokers probably won't be able to help them much based on what you've shared about their money management abilities.

Stuff like this drives me nutty.  My mom always talked "tough love" to her SIL about raising her kids.  And I found out recently that when my brother does crawl out of the woodwork from wherever he's living / staying / whatever, they give him money, loan him a car.  But he can't / won't see his daughter?  So where's all that "tough love" mom?  That is not HELPING him, that is ENABLING him.  So there's my judgy rant.

ETA words.

TNDancer

yes, I will be judgy. I had a girlfriend who was on food stamps for awhile. At the same time she was going out and buying designer purses. Not cool.

thefanciestbeckler

I am totally judging right now!!!! My brother is exactly the same way! It is incredibly frustrating.

He asks my mom for money constantly for things like gas, food, bills etc. yet he smokes 4-5 packs of cigarettes per week and goes through beer like it's water. That stuff adds up!

Even more irritating that he decided he wanted to take his girlfriend to the FL Keys for vacation and he saved up $1300 in a couple of months just by cutting down on drinking and smoking. Why can't you do that to pay your bills???

monkeysip

Yup... sad but true.  And I can't imagine how hard it is to have to say No in their situation, especially with grandchildren involved, but I really think this brother in particular is taking advantage.  

Some of the other siblings borrow money too still, and then they'll go out and buy a new electronic item or go out somewhere expensive.  Sigh.

julieanne912

Have something similar going on with FI's sister.  I actually really like her, she's a nice person and fun to hang out with, but she mooches off her parents so bad.  She lived out of state, and then decided to move back to where FI's parents live.  His dad and stepmom gave her a place to live (not sure if she pays rent or not, if she does it's not much), and remodeled it before she moved in.  His mom provides free childcare to her, cooks her and her kids dinner all the time.  They also pay for a ton of stuff for FI's nephews (all their sports stuff, etc).  His dad bought the older one a hunting rifle and both boys have their own four wheelers at his cabin.   She has a decent job too.  She came to my shower but just signed her name on the gift her mom brought, saying she was too broke to buy one herself.  But yet, she's paying my hair and makeup artist $110 to have HER hair and makeup done before our wedding, even though she's not in the wedding.  

But, I'm sure once we have a kid we wouldn't get the same treatment, because we aren't single parents and do OK for ourselves.  

madamerwin

I will be judgy with you, but only for the fact that these adults are "borrowing" money from their parents, repeatedly, and they don't seem to be trying to stand on their own two feet. As someone who has rarely asked my parents for help and prides myself on being financially independent (I'm the only sibling who didn't move back home after I was 18!), I definitely think poorly of people who constantly ask for handouts from their aging parents.

But where I live, recreational marijuana is 100% legal, no different from buying or using alcohol. So I don't judge someone buying weed any more than I would judge someone buying alcohol.

It's the parents' money to do with as they see fit, but as someone else pointed out, this will become your issue when the parents reach an age where they need money, but don't have it. I'm judging the parents as much as the adult children, in this case. They need to cut the umbilical cord, or stop complaining about being broke.

My MIL is very generous to all of her children, including me and H. We know she helps H's older brother a lot - he's a single father with two kids, and he does need the help. He also smokes weed on occasion, but I totally don't judge that. It's not like he's spending hundreds of dollars on crack. He is also in nursing school while working full-time, so it's not like he isn't working to become completely financially independent. MIL will probably be giving us money toward the cost of fertility treatment, but she has the money to give - it's not denting her retirement, and that's really where I see the difference here.

ETA words

monkeysip

I'm not criticizing people who buy weed in general, I just think it's messed up to continue buying it when you're so broke you have to keep calling your mom to ask for gas money.  I would say the same for alcohol, cigarettes, or other similar things.  

madamerwin

@monkeysip - That's a good point. I wasn't thinking of it in terms of being so broke you need money for gas. If that's the case, then yeah, I will judge this whole scenario...  He shouldn't be buying anything other than food, utilities, and rent with that money. 

I still think the problem is partially with the parents, though - if they cannot afford to support him without putting their future in jeopardy, they shouldn't be doing it.

monkeysip

I agree.  I wish my in-laws would just cut all the siblings off.  They've said many times they were going to, but they never follow through.  My FIL makes pretty good money, but they have very little in retirement to show for it.  

If they really want to help, they can help in kind if necessary.  Like if the grandson needs clothes, go buy him clothes.  But no more giving money, you know?

monkeysip

(BTW:  I'm not trying to say parents should never help their kids or anything, just when it becomes a habitual problem, and your kids are still being very irresponsible with money, I think it's time to say no)

madamerwin

@monkeysip I agree there is nothing wrong with helping adult children, but it becomes an issue when you enable your children at the detriment of your own retirement, which seems to be the case with your ILs. I definitely understand your frustration!

CMGragain

I have a different story.  My late FIL made no provisions for his wife.  After his first wife died, he lived off of her estate until the money was gone, and then started selling family heirlooms.  He asked to "borrow" money from both his adult children.  We gave him some, but then he went out and bought a Lexus with it, so we stopped.
DH was supposed to inherit several million from his mother.  It was in a loose trust, which FIL kept milking until it was down to the family farm - in the family for 160 years.  The farm was sold, and the state took a huge tax bite, which would not have happened if DH had first inherited it, and then it had been sold.  (Capitol gains.)  FIL's house has three mortgages with no equity at all. His widow has only her meager Social Security.
Should I be angry at FIL?  DH just got his settlement, which is a fraction of what he would have gotten, but is still substantial enough to finance the grandchildren's college education.

ShesSoCold

CMGragain said:

I have a different story.  My late FIL made no provisions for his wife.  After his first wife died, he lived off of her estate until the money was gone, and then started selling family heirlooms.  He asked to "borrow" money from both his adult children.  We gave him some, but then he went out and bought a Lexus with it, so we stopped.
DH was supposed to inherit several million from his mother.  It was in a loose trust, which FIL kept milking until it was down to the family farm - in the family for 160 years.  The farm was sold, and the state took a huge tax bite, which would not have happened if DH had first inherited it, and then it had been sold.  (Capitol gains.)  FIL's house has three mortgages with no equity at all. His widow has only her meager Social Security.
Should I be angry at FIL?  DH just got his settlement, which is a fraction of what he would have gotten, but is still substantial enough to finance the grandchildren's college education.

Are you asking if you should be angry that you didn't inherit as much money as you'd wanted when your FIL died? Seriously? Because that answer is no. 

TheCheeseWench

I feel like I need to RUN, not walk away from this one, because I have a similar situation close to home that I need to try my best to ignore.

You get to judge away. People, get your shit in order before you go out playing, no matter what it is. I don't have any more problem that it is weed than if it was booze/dinners out/going to the movies, I have a problem with not taking care of your big boy business before the "fun" gets to begin.

I'm not going to judge you for judging.

banana468

I'd judge right there with you. Dh's aunt is like this. Now at 68, I fear what she's going to do because she's just not accountable.

monkeysip

@ CMGr, I wouldn't necessarily be mad in a "I can't believe I don't get this money" way, but I can see just being really irritated that he would be so irresponsible with so much money.  

monkeysip

TheCheeseWench said:

I feel like I need to RUN, not walk away from this one, because I have a similar situation close to home that I need to try my best to ignore.

You get to judge away. People, get your shit in order before you go out playing, no matter what it is. I don't have any more problem that it is weed than if it was booze/dinners out/going to the movies, I have a problem with not taking care of your big boy business before the "fun" gets to begin.

I'm not going to judge you for judging.

Exactly.  And to me, when you're a parent, that should come first.  Like, maybe save that weed money for your son's school clothes so that you don't have to ask his grandmother to pay for them?  Because you know, your kids needs come first?

CMGragain

ShesSoCold said:

CMGragain said:

I have a different story.  My late FIL made no provisions for his wife.  After his first wife died, he lived off of her estate until the money was gone, and then started selling family heirlooms.  He asked to "borrow" money from both his adult children.  We gave him some, but then he went out and bought a Lexus with it, so we stopped.
DH was supposed to inherit several million from his mother.  It was in a loose trust, which FIL kept milking until it was down to the family farm - in the family for 160 years.  The farm was sold, and the state took a huge tax bite, which would not have happened if DH had first inherited it, and then it had been sold.  (Capitol gains.)  FIL's house has three mortgages with no equity at all. His widow has only her meager Social Security.
Should I be angry at FIL?  DH just got his settlement, which is a fraction of what he would have gotten, but is still substantial enough to finance the grandchildren's college education.

Are you asking if you should be angry that you didn't inherit as much money as you'd wanted when your FIL died? Seriously? Because that answer is no. 

The money isn't mine.  DH has no intention of spending it on anything except our grandchildren's education.  I signed a pre-nup 39 years ago, so I never would have inherited the farm, myself.  No problem with that.  DH and I have saved for our own retirement, and we live within our means.  We both feel that we are caretakers, not owners, of this inheritance, and should only spend it in dire emergency.
Late MIL tried to protect her family farm for her children and future grandchildren.  She knew how irresponsible her husband was about money.  The trust fund was not community property.
His second wife (widow) is now wondering where she is going to live and how she is going to survive on only social security.  FIL did not provide for her.  He retired early, without a thought for his future.  He was self employed (lawyer and business owner) and had no savings,  He cheated on his taxes for years, so his social security is much smaller than it would have been if he had been honest.
The money he spent was not his money.  The diamond ring he sold (we think) was intended for DH.  He is disappointed about that.  It was from his mother, too.
I judge him for not providing for his widow.  I judge him for taking money and things that were not his.  I judge him for not providing for his own future. I judge him for living beyond his means.   I judge him for lying to his widow (who is a nice lady, but clueless).

loveislouder

I'm going to come off like I'm on some kind of high horse, so bear with me.

H and I are 25. We have new (ish) cars, a house we bought ourselves and two cats that eat like gluttons. 

I pride myself in the fact that I've never borrowed money from either of our parents. Did they contribute to the wedding? Yes. But that's it. I've never said "Hey, we need money ASAP" I don't look down on those who have, but I'm just really excited that I haven't because my sister is 28 and she asks for money all the time. Hell, she tried to borrow the down payment for a house off my dad. 

Maggie0829

My Dad had to deal with something like this a few years ago.  His parents, unknowingly to my Dad or my Dad's one brother, would send money to their youngest son all.the.time.  This guy was the black sheep of the family.  Was into drugs and was always getting into trouble with the law.  At one point he had a warrant out for his arrest in Maryland.  My Dad's parents would always want my Dad (who was a police officer for 30+ years) to come over and see his brother but he would have to tell him that if he did he would have to arrest him and that he never wanted to know when he was in town.

Finally it got to the point where I guess his parents were so broke that they had to come clean to my Dad and his one brother.  Basically they had gotten themselves into $50K+ credit card debt and their savings/retirements were empty. They were mainly living off what little social security they got each month.  So the one son bankrupted his parents and the other sons were left to pick up the pieces.  My Grandfather passed not long after this all came to light.  The only good thing with his passing is that some of the debt went with him because one of the credit cards with the highest balance was only in his name.

But my Grandmother who is 93 years old is still in debt but at this time those CC bills are being ignored.  Once she passes they will try to come after her estate but will be sorely disappointed when they find that she was worth nothing.

H and I also have a friend who is very broke but continues to gamble at the local casino and buy pot.  He thinks that gambling will be his windfall and he will become a millionaire.  Yeah not so much.

LondonLisa

This is more petty, but I have a mate who has a girlfriend who is just so annoying. She is trying to break into my industry, so I, being a sap, said was happy to help (I truly am, it is a difficult industry). 

She kept saying things like: Can I take you for coffee and ask you questions? Which I would respond: Sure, I'm free A at B time or X at Y time. 

Then it would be radio silence....

Finally she emailed and was like "I am too busy to meet, but here is my CV so please forward it to the right people when you hear of a job". Which I of course in my head said: "Uhhhh, no, that is your job, I already HAVE a job here", but I am British so just did the:

And promptly deleted it. 

She is weird to me at parties, and doesn't really speak with me when I see her in the following weeks. She even no-showed to a dinner party we held because she decided to go out (Fi is really good friends with her BF so we of course invited them both over). 

Finally weeks later, my phone is blowing up from her, I get tons of messages as if she is my best friend and wanting a catch up. She isn't smart enough to be subtle so halfway through, she is like "so I saw a job is open at XXX (my) company, could you talk to the recruitment board for me" Which I of course had to decline and say that we need everything to go through HR. 

I am friends with the person hiring so I am surprised when she stops by my office to ask: Who is Jane Smith (Mate's girlfriend). When I just say she is a friend of a friend, this colleague says: "Well in her personal statement, she said that she only applied because YOU had told her how perfect she was for the job and how lucky my company would be to have her".  Beyond inappropriate, and make it very clear that is not the case and call up Jane to say don't use my name in your personal statements because it makes us both look bad, which of course she denies ever doing. 

She is a moron, and I just try to ignore her, as she can just act so young and immature. Best part, she was applying for a VP level role (that even I wouldn't have applied for with a PhD and 8+ years experience).

Finally when I tell fi and say "ugh, its annoying but Jane is just clueless and young" and fi says: "Young? Jane is 32"

Which I just have to: 

Ugh get it together, girl! And don't expect me to help you- consider this bridge burned!

southernbelle0915

I have no problem with people buying weed, alcohol, cigarettes...whatever. I have no problem with people getting pedicures, going out for cocktails with friends, vacations, getting that new purse or pair of heels....IF they have their other shit taken care of. Those are not necessary items. Bills, groceries, gas, and kids come first. And then if you've got the extra cash to spend on vices, by all means - go balls to the wall.

So yes, I judge too.

wandajune6

I judge the hell out of people who blow their money on frivolous shit when they can't pay their bills without borrowing.

BIL and SIL can't manage their money. They're constantly making late payments or having phone service turned off. A few years before I met DH, he bailed them out of losing their house, essentially emptying his entire savings. They had kids and he didn't want them homeless. When he was out of work for a year, they did nothing to help other than occasionally bringing over lunch while bugging him to fix their cars for free. They never paid him a single dollar back yet had no problem going on lavish vacations.

She quit her job recently to be home with the kids more. He just emptied his 401K so they could buy a house in FL. Their idea is to use it as a vacation home for the next few years then move in full-time. They've already started talking to DH about how broke they are, hinting that they need money to take care of MIL (she's not draining resources but babysits the kids and pays a few bills). DH and I have agreed that they will not be getting a penny from us again.

DH's ex has never paid child support despite losing custody of The Kid 8 years ago. Despite our endless attempts, no one seems to care about helping a single father. The ex likes to laugh about it- she sees no point in giving DH any money when there's no one forcing her to. So, while she might not pay for her kid to eat or have a roof over his head, she and her 14 month old (plus her wife and her wife's litter of children) are all in Air Jordans and carrying the newest iPhones. They do fun/expensive things whenever The Kid is there. Things that we don't do as we're trying to be financially responsible.

Oh- and because I'm bitching - we're taking more crap from The Kid about why we're not going on vacation with BIL/SIL and the kids. They go to waterparks on a regular basis, BIL calling in sick from work and taking the kids out of school so they can get cheaper mid-week rates. The Kid thinks we're assholes for not doing that with him. Frustrating.

loveislouder

This is how I feel 

ETA: My pictures and GIFs never work.  It says "When I say I'm broke I don't mean I have $0. I just mean I have responsibilities I have to handle before spending on extra fun"

l9i

Ugh, I get this.  My older brother being almost 30 still mooches off my parents.  I know they still pay some of his bills every month and help with other things.  For instance, I found out when tax time came around his employer (think mom & pop shop) didn't take out tax for him.  He knew that all year but then was surprised when he filed and owed money.  So my parents picked up that because he wasn't responsible enough.  When he wants to travel somewhere because he has time off my parents pay for it.  They help with rent and complain that it's too high but I'm pretty sure his apartment is some of the nicest in the area, more akin to a condo if you ask me.  But he was able to buy a brand new sports car....

So yes, I judge because he can afford a brand new car and keep up his heavy smoking and drinking habits but can't pay his bills?

KittenMittens84

I'm judgy on FI's ex wife. She claims to have no money to buy the kids new school clothes and tells FMIL that she needs clothes for the kids. FMIL sends her clothes and instead of saying thanks she ignores FMIL phone calls. FMIL just wants in the most to talk to the kids, she lives 2 states away so only gets to see them a few times a year besides the phone calls. She then posts all over FB the new tattoo she just got.

Crap like that just sends me off the deep end. If you don't have money for your kids then you should certainly not have money for a tattoo.

novella1186

I'm in the "older sibling is a mooch" club. My parents have bought my sister 5 or 6 cars now in the past 15 years. She trashes them (like never gets the oil changed or refills it so the motor burns out and there's so much damage that the car is totaled) and then just gets another one from my parents. 

I've had 2 cars (that I bought) and take good care of them so they last. 

My parents paid for my sister to go to an extremely expensive out-of-state art school in an expensive city. She had to go for 5 years cuz she failed so many classes. She even failed yoga class. All you have to do is show up to pass. Her major was photography which she knew she didn't want to pursue and never did anything with it. I paid for my college tuition with student loans that I'm now making payments on. 

They buy her plane tickets to Europe whenever she asks (4 times now) and I've always bought my own plane tickets. 

She asks them for money all the time and/or they just hand it to her constantly. Yet I'd go shopping with her and she'd buy a $600 pair of boots like it was nothing. $400 for dinner. $1100 for a hotel suite for New Years weekend. No big deal. She's really important and she lives the high life. On someone else's dime. 

NowIamMrsKlein

Can I be judgy of my friends family in a different/non money related situation?

One of my dearest friends is engaged to this wonderful woman. My friend grew up in a very religious household and it took her probably a year of dating this woman before she told her parents. Her parent's did not approve to the point where they cut off contact. 3 years into their relationship they get engaged. She lets her family know. They begrudingly accept that this is 'real' and 'not a phase' but still completely don't actually accept it, but its a huge step that they are even speaking to her.

I messaged my friend because I needed the spelling of her FI's last name for the seating chart and told her I was so excited for them to come. She replies back "I am so looking forward to your wedding, It will be the first event that FI and I have been to that we have been a) invited to as a recongnized couple b) that there will be no drama at because I am engaged to a woman and c) because you are so happy and excited for me and I don't have to worry all night long about being judged"


SERIOUSLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE. I feel so so so bad for her that they have had to put up with that much discrimnation. 

makes me ragey.

thisismynickname2

Some of your stories.... wow. 

I think my immediate family (parents and older sister) takes quite a bit of pride that my sister and I turned out to be self-sufficient, responsible adults who don't want for anything. My parents have been friends with this other woman (now a widow in her 70s) for 30-odd years now. Her daughters, who are the same ages as my sister and I, well... the one will barely speak to her anymore (the responsible one) and the younger daughter takes serious advantage of her mother. Has a credit card that the mother pays, had her mother finance her galavanting on world trips post-college, that kind of thing. 

Yet, this is a woman who used to pride herself on providing her daughters "the best" of everything. The Ivy League degrees (in contrast to my sister's and my "lowly" state school degrees) surely contributed to them getting great jobs, but the younger one in particular was never taught personal accountability. My parents just see this woman wasting her retirement on her younger daughter and they're really concerned for her. Goes to show what happens when you spoil your kids. 

ericasm0703

My fiance's younger sister has been with the same guy for 7 years and they have a kid together.  He moved in with them about a year after they first got together, whatever. Now FSIL and her boyfriend have broken up and FMIL doesn't want him to leave. They (FSIL & ex-boyfriend) been extremely toxic to everyone they're around, including their own son unfortunately. Their issues with each other make the house so tense that FI's parents got into an argument over something stupid; it was so tense that FI and I left to go to Walmart to buy a tent and air mattress to sleep outside (we stayed in a hotel for a night the last time we went for the same reason, which broke FMIL's heart and made her cry). FILs constantly call to complain about how stressed they are having to deal with them, but they won't tell either one of them to leave. Every time they call I just want to be like "kick them out or don't complain" - insensitive, but I'm over hearing about it every other day. Latest development: FSIL has no concept of money but she seems to think (per Facebook post earlier today) that she'll be moving into a 3 bedroom house here in the very near future.

Edit: I can't spell today