Flower girl trouble?

Knottie1433048614

My fiancé and I have a certain family member in mind for our flower girl however, we are noticing a troubling trend with her dad being very over controlling, we both understand that she is his daughter but we both can see him suddenly telling us she can't be the FG at the last minute. Should we have a second FG in case he does this?

thespeshulestsnowflake

Knottie1433048614 said:

My fiancé and I have a certain family member in mind for our flower girl however, we are noticing a troubling trend with her dad being very over controlling, we both understand that she is his daughter but we both can see him suddenly telling us she can't be the FG at the last minute. Should we have a second FG in case he does this?

No. You can have two flower girls but don't get a small child's hopes of being a flower girl up depending on if another child is allowed to be the flower girl. How mean to the hypothetical second child. She could be in a dress the wedding day, ready to go and then be told, "oh nevermind, the girl we really want to be the flower girl is going to do it, we don't need you anymore."

AddieCake

Knottie1433048614 said:

My fiancé and I have a certain family member in mind for our flower girl however, we are noticing a troubling trend with her dad being very over controlling, we both understand that she is his daughter but we both can see him suddenly telling us she can't be the FG at the last minute. Should we have a second FG in case he does this?

Like a backup second stringer? NO. What will happen if he pulls her out? Nothing. Nothing at all. The wedding will manage to go on. We lost our flower girl due to family drama. No big deal.

Knottie1433048614

I may not have worded that the best I did mean have two flowergirls from different families so that way even if he changes his mind last minute we aren't left scrambling to find a new flowergirl and get her a properly fitting dress at the last minute when everything will have a rush fee and have both set up to be the flowergirls regardless if he changes his mind at the last minute

Knottie1433048614

The other thing I am afraid of is the first child having her feelings hurt due to her father building up her excitement to be the flowergirl and do what he normally does and taking it away at the very last minute

Viczaesar

Knottie1433048614 said:

I may not have worded that the best I did mean have two flowergirls from different families so that way even if he changes his mind last minute we aren't left scrambling to find a new flowergirl and get her a properly fitting dress at the last minute when everything will have a rush fee and have both set up to be the flowergirls regardless if he changes his mind at the last minute

No, that's a terrible reason to ask someone to participate in your wedding.  If he changes his mind last minute, or if she can't participate for some other reason, you simply go on with your wedding without a flower girl.  They're not necessary and your wedding will still be valid without one.

Viczaesar

Knottie1433048614 said:

The other thing I am afraid of is the first child having her feelings hurt due to her father building up her excitement to be the flowergirl and do what he normally does and taking it away at the very last minute

You can't do anything about that, so don't worry about it.  Having a back-up FG won't help that.

Jen4948

You can ask someone else to be a flower girl instead of or along with this girl, but not as a "backup" for this girl.

AddieCake

Your rewording didn't change anything. I understood you the first time, and my response is still the same. Why would you scramble to find a replacement or have a second one to be sure you have at least one? Are you under the impression your wedding will not be able to take place if you don't have a flower girl?

snowywinter

Why do you NEED a flower girl? A flower girl is a want thing, not a need thing. If her father pulls her out, then you just won't have a flower girl. Weddings go on every day without one.

LD1970

I didn't have a flower girl and am married. Flower girls are 100% unnecessary.

Therefore, if you want to honor little Susie, ask her to be a flower girl. If she gets pulled by dad or gets the flu or throws a tantrum that day and ends up unable to walk in your wedding, you don't scramble. You proceed without a flower girl.

If you want to honor little Susie AND little Jenny, then by all means, ask both to be flower girls. Then youay have two at your wedding. When I was 4, I was one of two at my aunt's wedding. If dad pulls Susie, you have one flower girl, Jenny. If dad pulls Susie AND Jenny gets the flu or sprains an ankle or throws a tantrum, you proceed without any flower girls.

It's not a trauma.

Pupatella

It's okay to have more than one flower girl, but please only ask them to be a part of your wedding because you truly want them to be a part of it (i.e. not as a backup).

It's also perfectly fine to have no flower girls at all.

If you are afraid the Dad will pull out the flower girl you want and hurt her feelings, and cause drama, it may be best to just not have a flower girl at all. Just invite the girl as a guest.

STARMOON44

Her dad is controlling and capricious and you're worried about rush dress fees? Dial down the bridezilla.

Maggie0829

snowywinter said:

Why do you NEED a flower girl? A flower girl is a want thing, not a need thing. If her father pulls her out, then you just won't have a flower girl. Weddings go on every day without one.

This.  You realize that if her Dad does pull her out of the wedding at the last second you can still get married right?

[Deleted User]

I think the options you have are

1. Ask two different girls to be flower girls, if the one is pulled at the last moment then you still have one flower girl
2. Ask the one girl and if dad pulls her at the last minute, be ok with having no flower girl
3. Don't ask the one girl to be a flower girl and go with a different option. Then you have no stress on if dad is going to pull her at the last moment, her feelings aren't hurt, and no one takes on any of the expense of a dress for her, the basket, the flowers to throw, cost of a gift, etc.

The thing that is not an option is picking her and then if dad pulls her in the last minute, trying to find a replacement. That would be rude to that little girl and her family trying to get her ready in time and to have to take on the expenses involved at the last minute.

switSwoo00

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me.

This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

Jen4948

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

Unfortunately, all children, even those of abusive parents, need parental permission to participate in other people's weddings, and that permission can be withdrawn at any time for any reason. This kid's potentially hurt feelings are not an appropriate reason to choose or not choose anyone else to be in a wedding party.

Certainly this kid's father is an asshole and a potential problem if she's asked. But, OP, that's a problem that you aren't in a position to solve, so I wouldn't try to do that with your wedding party choices.  The sad truth of the matter is that if this girl gets her feelings hurt because there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day, that's her issue to deal with, even if it's because her father won't let her be a flower girl because he's an asshole.  Don't use that as the basis of your choice not to have a flower girl at all if you really want to include the other girl.

ShesSoCold

Jen4948 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

Unfortunately, all children, even those of abusive parents, need parental permission to participate in other people's weddings, and that permission can be withdrawn at any time for any reason. This kid's potentially hurt feelings are not an appropriate reason to choose or not choose anyone else to be in a wedding party.

Certainly this kid's father is an asshole and a potential problem if she's asked. But, OP, that's a problem that you aren't in a position to solve, so I wouldn't try to do that with your wedding party choices.  The sad truth of the matter is that if this girl gets her feelings hurt because there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day, that's her issue to deal with, even if it's because her father won't let her be a flower girl because he's an asshole.  Don't use that as the basis of your choice not to have a flower girl at all if you really want to include the other girl.

I'm sorry, Jen, but I think this is incredibly insensitive. To see a child get all excited, have that ripped out from underneath her and then basically not give a shit when she has to watch another child get to be the flower girl is pretty cold. 

Jen4948

ShesSoCold said:

Jen4948 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me.

This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

Unfortunately, all children, even those of abusive parents, need parental permission to participate in other people's weddings, and that permission can be withdrawn at any time for any reason.

This kid's potentially hurt feelings are not an appropriate reason to choose or not choose anyone else to be in a wedding party.

Certainly this kid's father is an asshole and a potential problem if she's asked. But, OP, that's a problem that you aren't in a position to solve, so I wouldn't try to do that with your wedding party choices.  The sad truth of the matter is that if this girl gets her feelings hurt because there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day, that's her issue to deal with, even if it's because her father won't let her be a flower girl because he's an asshole.  Don't use that as the basis of your choice not to have a flower girl at all if you really want to include the other girl.

I'm sorry, Jen, but I think this is incredibly insensitive. To see a child get all excited, have that ripped out from underneath her and then basically not give a shit when she has to watch another child get to be the flower girl is pretty cold. 

I know it's cold. But I still don't think that not choosing any flower girl because of this one girl's sad situation is the answer. Is everyone who knows her supposed to refrain from including in their lives someone or something she might get jealous of or feel sad about just because she isn't allowed to do it?

Everybody, no matter how good or bad their situation with their parents is, is going to have to accept that sometimes other people will be allowed to do things that they aren't. It's called growing up.

Liatris2010

Jen4948 said:

Jen4948 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

Unfortunately, all children, even those of abusive parents, need parental permission to participate in other people's weddings, and that permission can be withdrawn at any time for any reason. This kid's potentially hurt feelings are not an appropriate reason to choose or not choose anyone else to be in a wedding party.

Certainly this kid's father is an asshole and a potential problem if she's asked. But, OP, that's a problem that you aren't in a position to solve, so I wouldn't try to do that with your wedding party choices.  The sad truth of the matter is that if this girl gets her feelings hurt because there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day, that's her issue to deal with, even if it's because her father won't let her be a flower girl because he's an asshole.  Don't use that as the basis of your choice not to have a flower girl at all if you really want to include the other girl.

I'm sorry, Jen, but I think this is incredibly insensitive. To see a child get all excited, have that ripped out from underneath her and then basically not give a shit when she has to watch another child get to be the flower girl is pretty cold. 

I know it's cold. But I still don't think that not choosing any flower girl because of this one girl's sad situation is the answer. Is everyone who knows her supposed to refrain from including in their lives someone or something she might get jealous of or feel sad about just because she isn't allowed to do it? Everybody, no matter how good or bad their situation with their parents is, is going to have to accept that sometimes other people will be allowed to do things that they aren't. It's called growing up.

I think that depends on the circumstances. If the couple has two girls in mind from the beginning, then I agree, ask both. But if the couple is only asking the second because they like the idea of having a flower girl? I think the possibility of a second flower girl compounding the hurt of the first is reason enough not to do it. It uses one girl as a prop, and hurts the second, just so the couple can check a box.

Jen4948

Liatris2010 said:

Jen4948 said:

ShesSoCold said:

Jen4948 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me.

This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

Unfortunately, all children, even those of abusive parents, need parental permission to participate in other people's weddings, and that permission can be withdrawn at any time for any reason.

This kid's potentially hurt feelings are not an appropriate reason to choose or not choose anyone else to be in a wedding party.

Certainly this kid's father is an asshole and a potential problem if she's asked. But, OP, that's a problem that you aren't in a position to solve, so I wouldn't try to do that with your wedding party choices.  The sad truth of the matter is that if this girl gets her feelings hurt because there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day, that's her issue to deal with, even if it's because her father won't let her be a flower girl because he's an asshole.  Don't use that as the basis of your choice not to have a flower girl at all if you really want to include the other girl.

I'm sorry, Jen, but I think this is incredibly insensitive. To see a child get all excited, have that ripped out from underneath her and then basically not give a shit when she has to watch another child get to be the flower girl is pretty cold. 

I know it's cold. But I still don't think that not choosing any flower girl because of this one girl's sad situation is the answer. Is everyone who knows her supposed to refrain from including in their lives someone or something she might get jealous of or feel sad about just because she isn't allowed to do it?

Everybody, no matter how good or bad their situation with their parents is, is going to have to accept that sometimes other people will be allowed to do things that they aren't. It's called growing up.



I think that depends on the circumstances. If the couple has two girls in mind from the beginning, then I agree, ask both. But if the couple is only asking the second because they like the idea of having a flower girl? I think the possibility of a second flower girl compounding the hurt of the first is reason enough not to do it. It uses one girl as a prop, and hurts the second, just so the couple can check a box.


If the only reason to ask anyone is just to have someone as a flower girl, yeah, I agree with you. But if they want the second girl no matter what because they're close to her, then she should be asked regardless of what happens with the first girl and her father, because that shouldn't be a factor in whether anyone else who the couple really wants is asked.

snowywinter

switSwoo00 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

We don't know the details of this story, so I'm perplexed why you'd choose to call it emotional abuse.

Jen4948

snowywinter said:

switSwoo00 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

We don't know the details of this story, so I'm perplexed why you'd choose to call it emotional abuse.

Probably when the details come out, it will emerge that he uses her need for his love and approval as weapons against her when there's no reason to and withholds it for irrational reasons that go beyond mere discipline and obedience.  Yanking away promised things for no reason than that you can, knowing that it will hurt your loved one, and calling your child "bad" or claiming you won't love him/her if they don't X, Y, or Z, when love is supposed to be unconditional, is generally considered emotional abuse.  

That said, it isn't something third parties can do anything about.

snowywinter

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

switSwoo00 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

We don't know the details of this story, so I'm perplexed why you'd choose to call it emotional abuse.

Probably when the details come out, it will emerge that he uses her need for his love and approval as weapons against her when there's no reason to and withholds it for irrational reasons that go beyond mere discipline and obedience.  Yanking away promised things for no reason than that you can, knowing that it will hurt your loved one, and calling your child "bad" or claiming you won't love him/her if they don't X, Y, or Z, when love is supposed to be unconditional, is generally considered emotional abuse.  

That said, it isn't something third parties can do anything about.

Wow, talk about totally overreaching and jumping to conclusions.

Jen4948

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

switSwoo00 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

We don't know the details of this story, so I'm perplexed why you'd choose to call it emotional abuse.

Probably when the details come out, it will emerge that he uses her need for his love and approval as weapons against her when there's no reason to and withholds it for irrational reasons that go beyond mere discipline and obedience.  Yanking away promised things for no reason than that you can, knowing that it will hurt your loved one, and calling your child "bad" or claiming you won't love him/her if they don't X, Y, or Z, when love is supposed to be unconditional, is generally considered emotional abuse.  

That said, it isn't something third parties can do anything about.

Wow, talk about totally overreaching and jumping to conclusions.

How the fuck would you know?  This is how emotionally abusive parents act.

snowywinter

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

switSwoo00 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

We don't know the details of this story, so I'm perplexed why you'd choose to call it emotional abuse.

Probably when the details come out, it will emerge that he uses her need for his love and approval as weapons against her when there's no reason to and withholds it for irrational reasons that go beyond mere discipline and obedience.  Yanking away promised things for no reason than that you can, knowing that it will hurt your loved one, and calling your child "bad" or claiming you won't love him/her if they don't X, Y, or Z, when love is supposed to be unconditional, is generally considered emotional abuse.  

That said, it isn't something third parties can do anything about.

Wow, talk about totally overreaching and jumping to conclusions.

How the fuck would you know?  This is how emotionally abusive parents act.

How would I know that you're jumping to conclusions? Because the OP never said the things that you did. By definition, you are jumping to conclusions. Whether your conclusions are right or wrong doesn't mean you aren't jumping to conclusions.

Jen4948

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

switSwoo00 said:

I would be more concerned about having a family member who uses emotional abuse to control and damage his child's wellbeing. My father did stuff like this (build up to something to look forward to then take it away at the last minute). It was a small part of much wider emotional and psychological abuse that had a big effect on me. This little girl sounds like she might need your help. Imagine how she will feel if her father does say she can't participate, and there's another little girl in a pretty dress getting all the attention on the day.

We don't know the details of this story, so I'm perplexed why you'd choose to call it emotional abuse.

Probably when the details come out, it will emerge that he uses her need for his love and approval as weapons against her when there's no reason to and withholds it for irrational reasons that go beyond mere discipline and obedience.  Yanking away promised things for no reason than that you can, knowing that it will hurt your loved one, and calling your child "bad" or claiming you won't love him/her if they don't X, Y, or Z, when love is supposed to be unconditional, is generally considered emotional abuse.  

That said, it isn't something third parties can do anything about.

Wow, talk about totally overreaching and jumping to conclusions.

How the fuck would you know?  This is how emotionally abusive parents act.

How would I know that you're jumping to conclusions? Because the OP never said the things that you did. By definition, you are jumping to conclusions. Whether your conclusions are right or wrong doesn't mean you aren't jumping to conclusions.

Judgy much?

Well, it takes one to know one, because just because she didn't say so doesn't mean it's not the case.  You are also jumping to conclusions that it's not the case, so I suggest reining in your judginess, because it's hypocritical in your case.

BTW, therapists would agree that emotional abuse does tend to go down the way I described.

snowywinter

Jen4948 said:

Judgy much?

Well, it takes one to know one, because just because she didn't say so doesn't mean it's not the case.  You are also jumping to conclusions that it's not the case, so I suggest reining in your judginess, because it's hypocritical in your case.

BTW, therapists would agree that emotional abuse does tend to go down the way I described.

Wait, you're calling ME judgmental when YOU'RE accusing some stranger of child abuse based on a few words on the Internet? And FYI, therapists would also agree that not every single person who would stop his daughter from being a flower girl after saying she could is an abuser. And by the way, I didn't jump to conclusions. I never said that he wasn't an abuser. I said that we don't have enough information to make that determination.

Jen4948

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

Judgy much?

Well, it takes one to know one, because just because she didn't say so doesn't mean it's not the case.  You are also jumping to conclusions that it's not the case, so I suggest reining in your judginess, because it's hypocritical in your case.

BTW, therapists would agree that emotional abuse does tend to go down the way I described.

Wait, you're calling ME judgmental when YOU'RE accusing some stranger of child abuse based on a few words on the Internet? And FYI, therapists would also agree that not every single person who would stop his daughter from being a flower girl after saying she could is an abuser. And by the way, I didn't jump to conclusions. I never said that he wasn't an abuser. I said that we don't have enough information to make that determination.

Bullshit.  We were talking about emotional abuse, not physical abuse, although that might be going on too.  There are only so many ways it happens.

And you know something?  Something doesn't have to be specifically stated for anyone to have permission to comment on it.  I certainly don't need your permission to comment on anything.

snowywinter

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

Judgy much?

Well, it takes one to know one, because just because she didn't say so doesn't mean it's not the case.  You are also jumping to conclusions that it's not the case, so I suggest reining in your judginess, because it's hypocritical in your case.

BTW, therapists would agree that emotional abuse does tend to go down the way I described.

Wait, you're calling ME judgmental when YOU'RE accusing some stranger of child abuse based on a few words on the Internet? And FYI, therapists would also agree that not every single person who would stop his daughter from being a flower girl after saying she could is an abuser. And by the way, I didn't jump to conclusions. I never said that he wasn't an abuser. I said that we don't have enough information to make that determination.

Bullshit.  We were talking about emotional abuse, not physical abuse, although that might be going on too.  There are only so many ways it happens.

And you know something?  Something doesn't have to be specifically stated for anyone to have permission to comment on it.  I certainly don't need your permission to comment on anything.

Who said anything about physical abuse? I never said you can't comment on it. What I said was that you were jumping to conclusions and accusing this person of being an abusive parent, even going so far as scripting how he carries out the abuse, when we have no details.

If this person actually is abusive, then I'd be questioning the OP's priorities in worrying about her flower girl instead of the child living in an abusive home.

Jen4948

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

snowywinter said:

Jen4948 said:

Judgy much?

Well, it takes one to know one, because just because she didn't say so doesn't mean it's not the case.  You are also jumping to conclusions that it's not the case, so I suggest reining in your judginess, because it's hypocritical in your case.

BTW, therapists would agree that emotional abuse does tend to go down the way I described.

Wait, you're calling ME judgmental when YOU'RE accusing some stranger of child abuse based on a few words on the Internet? And FYI, therapists would also agree that not every single person who would stop his daughter from being a flower girl after saying she could is an abuser. And by the way, I didn't jump to conclusions. I never said that he wasn't an abuser. I said that we don't have enough information to make that determination.

Bullshit.  We were talking about emotional abuse, not physical abuse, although that might be going on too.  There are only so many ways it happens.

And you know something?  Something doesn't have to be specifically stated for anyone to have permission to comment on it.  I certainly don't need your permission to comment on anything.

Who said anything about physical abuse? I never said you can't comment on it. What I said was that you were jumping to conclusions and accusing this person of being an abusive parent, even going so far as scripting how he carries out the abuse, when we have no details.

If this person actually is abusive, then I'd be questioning the OP's priorities in worrying about her flower girl instead of the child living in an abusive home.

I didn't say anything about physical abuse either.  But you know something?  I don't need your permission to guess at how it might be happening, because it follows predictable patterns.

Exactly how is the OP supposed to "worry" about what's going on with this child?  Is she supposed to not get married or not have a flower girl in her wedding because one girl is in a bad situation at home?  Exactly when the fuck does she have your permission to live her own life?