Sister and Niece Dilemma

MandyPandy87

Hi!

I'm in a bit of a pickle...my sister recently had a beautiful baby girl and when I got engaged she and I were so excited talking about the plans for the wedding and when we finally had a date nailed down she realized my niece will be a little over a year old when I get married. So she asked if my niece could be the flower girl, and I was so excited that I just said yes! of course!

But now I'm wondering if a year is too young to be a flower girl? My sister is so excited to get an adorable dress for her and have her be part of the wedding so I don't want to hurt her feelings by saying she can't be in it...does anyone have any suggestions on this? Or do you think a one year old will be okay? My sister is my MOH, and I obviously want my niece to be there, but maybe just not as the flower girl. Any advice on this would be really helpful!

ShesSoCold

MandyPandy87 said:

Hi!

I'm in a bit of a pickle...my sister recently had a beautiful baby girl and when I got engaged she and I were so excited talking about the plans for the wedding and when we finally had a date nailed down she realized my niece will be a little over a year old when I get married. So she asked if my niece could be the flower girl, and I was so excited that I just said yes! of course!

But now I'm wondering if a year is too young to be a flower girl? My sister is so excited to get an adorable dress for her and have her be part of the wedding so I don't want to hurt her feelings by saying she can't be in it...does anyone have any suggestions on this? Or do you think a one year old will be okay? My sister is my MOH, and I obviously want my niece to be there, but maybe just not as the flower girl. Any advice on this would be really helpful!

I didn't have a program or even a processional really but my 11 month old niece was our "flower girl" I guess. She got a pretty dress and that was about it. She sat with her mom and took pictures with us. There's actually a pretty awesome picture of me trying to hold her and she's having none of it.

holyguacamole79

Let her get a cute dress for the niece and see how the day goes.  She could be totally fine and walk down and everyone will find it adorable.  Or the niece could be fussy and not want anything to do with it.  It that's the case, let her sit with a relative.  Just go with the flow.  I wouldn't "un-ask".

Jen4948

I would allow your sister to dress up your niece, call her a "flower girl," and have her in photos, but I think that's all a 1 year old is capable of as a wedding party member.  Don't try to have her go up and down the aisle-just let her sit with an adult relative.

aurianna

You agreed to it so there's no going back now.
That said though I agree with PPs.
Let her dress up, be in the bridal party pictures, put her name in the program, but have zero expectations as far as her actually walking down the aisle the day of.

Not all one year olds can walk at all.
Most one year olds don't walk well enough to to get down an aisle.
99.9% of one year olds couldn't walk down an aisle by themselves and then go to the appropriate place at the end.

Closer to the day see what your sister is up for.
She could walk with / carry her daughter down the aisle and escort her to wherever she's supposed to sit.
The child's father could walk her / carry her down the aisle
Or you can just skip the aisle and seat her with family straight away.

ETA:
Some weddings I've seen an older flower girl or ring bearer (4+) walk along side a young one. And I don't recommend it.
At my BiL and SiL's wedding the 4 year old flower girl was very into her role and wanted to proudly strut down the aisle sprinkling flowers. Her two year old sister just wanted to hold her sister's hand. 4 year old wanted nothing of it. 2 year old just stopped walking and started sobbing as her sister continued down the aisle without her.
And in a situation like that the older child still doesn't always know how to handle the little one and it ruins it for them and an adult has to go out there anyway.

kimmiinthemitten

Our niece will be 18 months and will be our "flower girl."  Which really means we're putting her in an adorable tutu and giving her a tiny flower ball to carry, maybe a flower crown too, we'll see what her attitude is about hair at that time LOL.  I don't care what she does the day of the ceremony; walk, get carried, sleep, whatever.  I just want her there because she's important to us (and a chunky little dollface - she tried eating me during Facetime tonight  ).

Heffalump

Yeah, I'd make her a flower girl in name only, let her mom dress her up, get some pictures, and call it a day.  That's about all a one year old is up for, anyway.

aurianna said:

Not all one year olds can walk at all.
Most one year olds don't walk well enough to to get down an aisle.
99.9% of one year olds couldn't walk down an aisle by themselves and then go to the appropriate place at the end.

Bless their hearts, I love my kids, but at one, neither one of them could take more than four or five steps in a row without tripping over their own feet.  Clumsy genes.   

Even if a kid is physically capable, they don't really have the cognitive and emotional skills to follow through on the plan.  Don't set yourselves up for drama, just keep it simple and let everyone have a great time.

southernbelle0915

I think anything under 3 is too young to be an actual FG or RB who is part of the processional. Even 3 is pushing it depending on the kid.

I agree with PPs, she can bear the title but she quite literally cannot be part of the processional because she likely will not be able to walk. And even if she can, 1 year olds are unpredictable and she may despise the cute dress hour sister buys her.

MandyPandy87

This is all such good advice! I'm completely comfortable with just going with whatever my niece is in the mood for that day, if that means wearing a pretty dress and being carried down the aisle by mom or dad, great! If it means just taking some pictures with us, great too!

Thanks everyone!! She's the first baby between me and my siblings so I definitely wanted her to be included somehow, this all seems like a happy medium  

peachy13

My SIL's son was born when DH and I were freshly engaged with 1 1/2 years to go before our wedding - SIL and I excitedly talked about how he could be the ring bearer in the wedding and I agreed. Sounds very much like what you and your sister just talked about.

Flash forward to my wedding two weeks ago. Nephew is 1 1/2 years old. Still really young, in my opinion. He walked down the aisle with his mom (my SIL) and then sat on his dad's lap during the ceremony. Right after the ceremony, he was escorted away by his babysitters (previously hired by my SIL). This was a good thing... my SIL could then relax and unwind with her husband. 

I would just say that when the time comes closer to your wedding, talk to your sister about what she wants to do. For us, the babysitter thing worked out great.

MesmrEwe

When it comes to the cute dress for her to wear - the (after) Christmas and Easter sales are your best bet as the dresses are more comfortable and reasonably priced, which makes for a backup dress being affordable if they get food or spit-up on it.. 

Some 1yo's can barely stand... Then there are kids like DS who was walking confidently at 8mo.  Having zero expectations is the way to go.  If holding flowers, I'd recommend silks just for theirs because - 1yo's still like to mouth things if they get a tooth coming in. 

Knottie93292276

We are having my nephew as our ringbearer (he will be 10 months at the time) but he will be either carried or walked (depending on if he can walk yet!) with his two older brothers who are 12 and 9.  My sister-in-law is having her mom come pick him up after the ceremony.  It was never even a question to not have him included for us.  But my other brother is having a baby 3 months before our wedding and they have already said they wont' be bringing the baby.  No big deal leave it up to the mom if you don't really care either way.

CMGragain

I am going against the popular opinion expressed by PPs, but I think that anyone who is too young to understand what is happening in a wedding ceremony is too young to be in the bridal party.  Many churches would not allow this at all.
Your sister was way out of line to ask you if her baby could be the flower girl.  Babies do not belong in wedding parties.  (My own two children could not walk until they were 16 months old.)
Yes, you should include your niece.  You should invite her along with her parents.  You can take cute pictures with her at the reception.
I know your sister was the one who asked, but ask yourself, "Why am I having a baby in my wedding party?"  Is it for the cuteness factor?  If it is, then this is the wrong reason.  Your niece will have no memory of your wedding.  She will not have hurt feelings if she isn't your flower baby.  The only person who might be upset is your sister, who had no business to ask you in the first place.
I have seen several wedding ceremonies disrupted by screaming toddlers.  "Oh, but she'ss be so cute!" insisted the bride.  No, she wasn't.  Please don't do this.

kimmiinthemitten

CMGragain said:

I am going against the popular opinion expressed by PPs, but I think that anyone who is too young to understand what is happening in a wedding ceremony is too young to be in the bridal party.  Many churches would not allow this at all.
Your sister was way out of line to ask you if her baby could be the flower girl.  Babies do not belong in wedding parties.  (My own two children could not walk until they were 16 months old.)
Yes, you should include your niece.  You should invite her along with her parents.  You can take cute pictures with her at the reception.
I know your sister was the one who asked, but ask yourself, "Why am I having a baby in my wedding party?"  Is it for the cuteness factor?  If it is, then this is the wrong reason.  Your niece will have no memory of your wedding.  She will not have hurt feelings if she isn't your flower baby.  The only person who might be upset is your sister, who had no business to ask you in the first place.
I have seen several wedding ceremonies disrupted by screaming toddlers.  "Oh, but she'ss be so cute!" insisted the bride.  No, she wasn't.  Please don't do this.

I'm having my niece in my "wedding party" because your WP is how you honor the people closest to you.  We always say that the WP has 3 jobs:  to show up in the outfit you requested, be fairly sober and take pics.  I'm pretty sure she can fulfill all 3.  And if she happens to be in a tiny adorable tutu than even better  .

CMGragain

kimmiinthemitten said:

CMGragain said:

I am going against the popular opinion expressed by PPs, but I think that anyone who is too young to understand what is happening in a wedding ceremony is too young to be in the bridal party.  Many churches would not allow this at all.
Your sister was way out of line to ask you if her baby could be the flower girl.  Babies do not belong in wedding parties.  (My own two children could not walk until they were 16 months old.)
Yes, you should include your niece.  You should invite her along with her parents.  You can take cute pictures with her at the reception.
I know your sister was the one who asked, but ask yourself, "Why am I having a baby in my wedding party?"  Is it for the cuteness factor?  If it is, then this is the wrong reason.  Your niece will have no memory of your wedding.  She will not have hurt feelings if she isn't your flower baby.  The only person who might be upset is your sister, who had no business to ask you in the first place.
I have seen several wedding ceremonies disrupted by screaming toddlers.  "Oh, but she'ss be so cute!" insisted the bride.  No, she wasn't.  Please don't do this.

I'm having my niece in my "wedding party" because your WP is how you honor the people closest to you.  We always say that the WP has 3 jobs:  to show up in the outfit you requested, be fairly sober and take pics.  I'm pretty sure she can fulfill all 3.  And if she happens to be in a tiny adorable tutu than even better  .

18 month is a BABY.  Children can be involved in wedding parties if they are old enough to understand that this is John and Jane's wedding, and it is important.  An 18 month old BABY cannot grasp this concept.  You are using the child, not honoring her.  It could be very stressful for her.
Inviting her to the wedding in an honor.  She can wear the tutu at your reception.  I repeat, most churches will not allow this at all!

themosthappy91

CMGragain said:

I am going against the popular opinion expressed by PPs, but I think that anyone who is too young to understand what is happening in a wedding ceremony is too young to be in the bridal party.  Many churches would not allow this at all.
Your sister was way out of line to ask you if her baby could be the flower girl.  Babies do not belong in wedding parties.  (My own two children could not walk until they were 16 months old.)
Yes, you should include your niece.  You should invite her along with her parents.  You can take cute pictures with her at the reception.
I know your sister was the one who asked, but ask yourself, "Why am I having a baby in my wedding party?"  Is it for the cuteness factor?  If it is, then this is the wrong reason.  Your niece will have no memory of your wedding.  She will not have hurt feelings if she isn't your flower baby.  The only person who might be upset is your sister, who had no business to ask you in the first place.
I have seen several wedding ceremonies disrupted by screaming toddlers.  "Oh, but she'ss be so cute!" insisted the bride.  No, she wasn't.  Please don't do this.

I think OP was really clear about why she wants to include her niece in the wedding party- because she loves her and she loves her sister. Absolutely nowhere did I get the impression the cuteness factor was at play.

I don't think having a child this young in the wedding party is about honoring the child per say- it's about honoring the family connection. This is her beloved sister's beloved baby, and that would be more than enough for me to feel it was worth it to adopt the casual approach to including her that other PP's have expressed.

CMGragain

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

PrettyGirlLost

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

Jen4948

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

In another thread you mention "fremdschamen."  It means to be embarrassed on behalf of another person who has embarrassed themselves but likely doesn't realize it.

Many people experience this on behalf of babies and toddlers, as well as their parents and the couple, who embarrass themselves at weddings by having children who are too small to really understand what's expected of them, are experiencing breaks in their normal routines, and who are surrounded by unfamiliar people in unfamiliar settings, having meltdowns, running down aisles in terror, refusing to walk down aisles, etc. 

None of this might bother you, and never mind what you're doing to the poor babies and toddlers by having those expectations of them - but given how many people experience fremdschamen on behalf of those poor babies, their parents, and the couple when that happens, it doesn't seem right to me to expose anyone to fremdschamen at a wedding by putting them in situations that they just aren't old enough, big enough, or mature enough to handle.

PrettyGirlLost

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

In another thread you mention "fremdschamen."  It means to be embarrassed on behalf of another person who has embarrassed themselves but likely doesn't realize it.

Many people experience this on behalf of babies and toddlers, as well as their parents and the couple, who embarrass themselves at weddings by having children who are too small to really understand what's expected of them, are experiencing breaks in their normal routines, and who are surrounded by unfamiliar people in unfamiliar settings, having meltdowns, running down aisles in terror, refusing to walk down aisles, etc. 

None of this might bother you, and never mind what you're doing to the poor babies and toddlers by having those expectations of them - but given how many people experience fremdschamen on behalf of those poor babies, their parents, and the couple when that happens, it doesn't seem right to me to expose anyone to fremdschamen at a wedding by putting them in situations that they just aren't old enough, big enough, or mature enough to handle.

Jen, I know what the term means. .. like you said, I brought it up in another thread ;-)

What expectations?  The whole point of my post was that if you include toddlers in your wedding you can't have any expectations as to what they may or may not do, and just go with the flow.

Jen4948

PrettyGirlLost said:

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

In another thread you mention "fremdschamen."  It means to be embarrassed on behalf of another person who has embarrassed themselves but likely doesn't realize it.

Many people experience this on behalf of babies and toddlers, as well as their parents and the couple, who embarrass themselves at weddings by having children who are too small to really understand what's expected of them, are experiencing breaks in their normal routines, and who are surrounded by unfamiliar people in unfamiliar settings, having meltdowns, running down aisles in terror, refusing to walk down aisles, etc. 

None of this might bother you, and never mind what you're doing to the poor babies and toddlers by having those expectations of them - but given how many people experience fremdschamen on behalf of those poor babies, their parents, and the couple when that happens, it doesn't seem right to me to expose anyone to fremdschamen at a wedding by putting them in situations that they just aren't old enough, big enough, or mature enough to handle.

Jen, I know what the term means. .. like you said, I brought it up in another thread ;-)

What expectations?  The whole point of my post was that if you include toddlers in your wedding you can't have any expectations as to what they may or may not do, and just go with the flow.

Even so, I'd just limit their involvement to photos of them and not worry about "the flow."  They'll still be adorable and cute.

CMGragain

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

In another thread you mention "fremdschamen."  It means to be embarrassed on behalf of another person who has embarrassed themselves but likely doesn't realize it.

Many people experience this on behalf of babies and toddlers, as well as their parents and the couple, who embarrass themselves at weddings by having children who are too small to really understand what's expected of them, are experiencing breaks in their normal routines, and who are surrounded by unfamiliar people in unfamiliar settings, having meltdowns, running down aisles in terror, refusing to walk down aisles, etc. 

None of this might bother you, and never mind what you're doing to the poor babies and toddlers by having those expectations of them - but given how many people experience fremdschamen on behalf of those poor babies, their parents, and the couple when that happens, it doesn't seem right to me to expose anyone to fremdschamen at a wedding by putting them in situations that they just aren't old enough, big enough, or mature enough to handle.

Jen, I know what the term means. .. like you said, I brought it up in another thread ;-)

What expectations?  The whole point of my post was that if you include toddlers in your wedding you can't have any expectations as to what they may or may not do, and just go with the flow.

Even so, I'd just limit their involvement to photos of them and not worry about "the flow."  They'll still be adorable and cute.

When the two year old flower girl threw herself down in the middle of the bridal procession and screamed and kicked, making the rest of the bridal party wait until an usher carried her out, howling at the top of her lungs, it was NOT CUTE!  The bride was in tears.  I had warned her!
When the two year old ring bearer threw up on the bride at the altar, it was NOT CUTE.  The videographer caught the whole thing for posterity.
When the six month old baby the bride was carrying in place of her bouquet screamed all the way down the aisle and pulled the bride's veil off, it was NOT CUTE.
I personally witness all of these disasters, and I felt so sorry for the children.

themosthappy91

CMGragain said:

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

In another thread you mention "fremdschamen."  It means to be embarrassed on behalf of another person who has embarrassed themselves but likely doesn't realize it.

Many people experience this on behalf of babies and toddlers, as well as their parents and the couple, who embarrass themselves at weddings by having children who are too small to really understand what's expected of them, are experiencing breaks in their normal routines, and who are surrounded by unfamiliar people in unfamiliar settings, having meltdowns, running down aisles in terror, refusing to walk down aisles, etc. 

None of this might bother you, and never mind what you're doing to the poor babies and toddlers by having those expectations of them - but given how many people experience fremdschamen on behalf of those poor babies, their parents, and the couple when that happens, it doesn't seem right to me to expose anyone to fremdschamen at a wedding by putting them in situations that they just aren't old enough, big enough, or mature enough to handle.

Jen, I know what the term means. .. like you said, I brought it up in another thread ;-)

What expectations?  The whole point of my post was that if you include toddlers in your wedding you can't have any expectations as to what they may or may not do, and just go with the flow.

Even so, I'd just limit their involvement to photos of them and not worry about "the flow."  They'll still be adorable and cute.

When the two year old flower girl threw herself down in the middle of the bridal procession and screamed and kicked, making the rest of the bridal party wait until an usher carried her out, howling at the top of her lungs, it was NOT CUTE!  The bride was in tears.  I had warned her!
When the two year old ring bearer threw up on the bride at the altar, it was NOT CUTE.  The videographer caught the whole thing for posterity.
When the six month old baby the bride was carrying in place of her bouquet screamed all the way down the aisle and pulled the bride's veil off, it was NOT CUTE.
I personally witness all of these disasters, and I felt so sorry for the children.

Those sound like adult problems, not children problems. I would never think to "warn" an adult not to have a child in their wedding because it would never occur to me that an adult would be in tears over a kid crying or throwing up.

Every single person here is saying just go with the flow and be cool with if it niece is too fussy to walk down the aisle, or nervous and doesn't want to be in the spotlight. Literally nothing wrong with including her though if she's up to it. 

[Deleted User]

 No reason your sister can't get her daughter a beautiful dress as I'm sure you will be doing family photos. Heck she can even be in a few photos with the bridal party. But she'll be too young to walk down the isle by herself so mom or someone else will have to walk/carry her down the isle.

Jen4948

CMGragain said:

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Jen4948 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

I have seen too many crying, stressed out children at weddings. They were obviously very unhappy, and had no clue what was going on.  I am thinking of the children and their feelings, not my own.  (I am a retired church organist.)

I've seen far more crying, stressed out adults at weddings.  Typically the MOB, MOG, the Bride, etc.

I get what you are saying, but if a couple wants to honor a young child and their parents by including the child in the WP in the sense that the child gets dressed up and poses in pictures before and after the ceremony, seems fine to me.

I also have no problem with toddlers being a part of the actual ceremony, as long as the kids can walk down the aisle and not be carted down in a wagon, and all the adults- especially the Bride- understand that the child may be unpredictable and never actually make it down the aisle.  As long as the Bride is fine with whatever might happen- walking down aisle as rehearsed, running down aisle in terror, refusing to walk down aisle, etc. I don't care if a couple chooses to have kids under 5 in their WP.

In another thread you mention "fremdschamen."  It means to be embarrassed on behalf of another person who has embarrassed themselves but likely doesn't realize it.

Many people experience this on behalf of babies and toddlers, as well as their parents and the couple, who embarrass themselves at weddings by having children who are too small to really understand what's expected of them, are experiencing breaks in their normal routines, and who are surrounded by unfamiliar people in unfamiliar settings, having meltdowns, running down aisles in terror, refusing to walk down aisles, etc. 

None of this might bother you, and never mind what you're doing to the poor babies and toddlers by having those expectations of them - but given how many people experience fremdschamen on behalf of those poor babies, their parents, and the couple when that happens, it doesn't seem right to me to expose anyone to fremdschamen at a wedding by putting them in situations that they just aren't old enough, big enough, or mature enough to handle.

Jen, I know what the term means. .. like you said, I brought it up in another thread ;-)

What expectations?  The whole point of my post was that if you include toddlers in your wedding you can't have any expectations as to what they may or may not do, and just go with the flow.


Even so, I'd just limit their involvement to photos of them and not worry about "the flow."  They'll still be adorable and cute.


When the two year old flower girl threw herself down in the middle of the bridal procession and screamed and kicked, making the rest of the bridal party wait until an usher carried her out, howling at the top of her lungs, it was NOT CUTE!  The bride was in tears.  I had warned her!
When the two year old ring bearer threw up on the bride at the altar, it was NOT CUTE.  The videographer caught the whole thing for posterity.
When the six month old baby the bride was carrying in place of her bouquet screamed all the way down the aisle and pulled the bride's veil off, it was NOT CUTE.
I personally witness all of these disasters, and I felt so sorry for the children.


I have never advocated that anyone should try to bring babies down aisles at weddings.