Dog questions - separation anxiety and the ethics of microchipped lost pets

badbnagdway

Background (feel free to skip): I recently found a lost dog. He was very dirty and flea infested when I found him and anecdotal neighborhood reports indicate that he has been on the street for six weeks. I have posted him on all the local lost and found pet groups/sites and in fact he was already posted several places as a dog people had seen wandering around in the neighborhood where I found him. 

The kicker is he has a microchip. The vet and the chip company have called the owners but they aren't returning the calls. We got the contact info for the owners including the address where the dog used to live. The house is gutted and under renovation - no one has lived there for a while. I found the dog right around there so clearly he remembered he used to live there. I also found one of the owners on Facebook and sent her a message. She posts a lot it seemed so I thought maybe she would be more likely to see a message than the calls that have been placed. 

In any case no response yet. Our current plan is to wait a week, let him get some R&R and then decide what to do with him. I have a friend who wants him (but her husband doesn't want a dog) and my husband has gotten very attached and would want to keep him if our friends didn't take him. 

My questions are these: 
1. What is the ethical time period to re-home a dog with a microchip where the owners are not responding? 
2. He is a lovely quiet little dog until you leave him. He has terrible separation anxiety and is not crate trained (he goes nuts in the crate). We have him locked in a bathroom while we are out right now so that he can't cause too much damage or hurt himself and yesterday he chewed a hole in the wall. What is the best way to cure him of his separation anxiety? 
3. We have two dogs in the house already. Our girl dog is mostly fine with the house guest but is having some food aggression and even some very brief toy aggression issues. Girl dog gets fed in her crate so it's not a question of him trying to horn in on her food, it's that she even goes after him when I go to get her food and he is nearby. Any tips for lessening this in her? She doesn't do this to our other dog. New dog is extremely good about this and though he fights back never picks a fight with her. 

justsie

Prudie had a post almost exactly like this. 
To answer your question I have heard people doing well with that thunder jacket, but spending that money on a dog you might not keep might not be on the books for you.....

ashtsb

No help here but we recently adopted a cat who was abandoned in an apartment for two weeks. According to DH she whines at the door whenever I leave, even when just taking out trash. She also goes crazy when we move furniture.

I wish you the best with this poor dog! Owners who just leave their pets...how awful

OliveOilsMom

To me, it seems like they abandoned this dog on purpose, the poor baby.  I say that, because if this were my dog missing, I'd have posted flyers around the neighborhood and would be checking my phone/email/facebook all the time!  Kudos to you to take in this dog! This could also be the root cause of his separation anxiety. 

I adopted a dog 4 weeks ago, Betsey too was abandoned by her family.  Betsey at first whined a lot when we were not in sight or if she couldn't get up the stairs to us at night (she has bad night vision, I think and would follow our other dog  out of our bedroom and downstairs).  After 4 weeks, Betsey has settled in nicely and is getting used to our routine.  She no longer tries to run out the door with us when we leave for work.  She knows we will be coming back to her.  Betsey also no longer whines in the middle of the night and is happy to stay downstairs by herself when our other dog goes upstairs to sleep (Olive always wanders back and forth between our bedroom and the downstairs).  We are also lucky in that there are no major issues between our two dogs.

With your girl dog's actions with the new dog.  I might be more inclined to have your friend take the dog.  It sounds like your girl dog is the alpha and is trying to make her authority known.  It's also possible that the introduction between the two animals was jarring for your girl dog.   When Betsey and Olive met, the animal behaviorist followed certain rules.  Like Betsey walked first and Olive behind her, so Olive could smell Betsey.  Then they switched positions.

As for the separate anxiety, Olive had that, but not to the extend this new dog has.  One thing the vet had told me to do was to not act overly excited before I left and after I returned home.  You were not to pet or praise the dog until they calmed down.  You say he goes nuts in a crate, would that be a safer option for him, when he is currently chewing holes in walls?  You might want to speak with your vet about his separation anxiety.  This dog may need some medicine to help him calm down when you go out.

AddieCake

I would say the "wait time" is up. You have contacted an active FB user on FB with no response, and the vet has tried contacting them as well. These assholes have abandoned their dog. 

STARMOON44

I think you should contact a local shelter or rescue group. You already have two dogs and you're dealing with aggression issues. Maybe you can make it work but if not start looking for other options now.

thefanciestbeckler

This pisses me off so badly!!! I agree with Addie - the wait time is up. You have done everything possible to contact the owner, and they are simply not interested. If it was my dog, I'd be frantically looking for her and would respond immediately to anyone who may have found her.

lyndausvi

I agree the wait time is over.

We rescued from an agency.  We had the benefit of knowing he wasn't normally destructive.   We also have another dog.  

We started off keeping the rescue in my office at night and when we left. One night early on DH forgot to close the door.  When we came home he had eaten some cookies on the counter and part of our curtains. Grr.  He definitely was kept in the office when we were gone.

  After a few months he started getting more privileges.  If I took the bulldog out I would leave the rescue alone in the house.  Then he was able to have free rein when we slept (even claimed our 2nd bedroom has his). If he broke a rule, then back to my office he went.   After a few months he got free rein for short trips.  Then eventually he had free rein all the time.

Has far as food goes    For the first month or 2 the bulldog and rescue were totally separated.  The rescue was in my office with the door closed.  Bulldog where he normally ate.   Then we started feeding him in my office, but the door was open.   Then we slowly moved the rescue's food to the main floor.   First about 20 feet away. Slowly moving them closer and closer.  

Now they eat within a foot of each other. They each know who's food is who's. No aggression.  Once they finish they each go to the other's bowl looking to see if anything was left (food never been left, but they still look EVERY DAY.) I would say the process was about 4 months or so.    

Sometimes it just takes time for everyone to settle in to a new situation.

badbnagdway

Thanks all for your comments and recommendations!

In the meantime I finally heard back from the owner of the dog via facebook. I suspect she was trying to decide if she wanted to respond back to the calls that have been placed to her. She had kind of a weak excuse for not responding sooner. 

It's a long story, we fb messaged back and forth for a while. Essentially she said he just got out "again" on Christmas evening. (I found him on 12/26). Her house (near where I found him) is being renovated and rather than taking him and his elderly dog sister with her she has them in a yard with a room they can run into. The other dog is a 13 year old lab looking mix who is blind. She says she visits them once a day. She says she has treated him for fleas but it hasn't worked. She tried to keep the dogs with her but the little boy has such anxiety that he caused lots of damage where she was staying and isn't allowed anymore.  

I told her basically, hey, this is where I'm coming from - the dog was loose and almost got hit by a car, he has terrible fleas with scabbing and bleeding from scratching, he is a dog with extreme separation issues and is not suitable for being left in that situation.

I cannot in good conscience return him to her knowing he will be in this situation. She seems to both want him back and also know she is not doing right by him right now. I have told her I need to talk to my husband but that I am inclined to foster both dogs (if they can get along with our dogs) until her house is renovated and she has a suitable place to keep the dogs. Her current estimate is 3-6 months but the renovation has taken longer than expected. I think my friend taking him is probably off the table given the situation - a destructive dog with a blind elderly dog pal. 

On the food issues - I am not so concerned about that that it would keep me from taking him in. I have seen dogs get into scuffles at the dog park that are worse than what is happening. She doesn't do it with our other dog so I tend to think it is something that can be fixed with some time and patience. 

I do wish we could have done a more gradual introduction with the dogs. I always see the behavioral approach of very slowly introducing new pets but I guess to me that is a dreamworld scenario. 

MairePoppy

You've given these people plenty of time to claim their dog. I hate people like that. The only thing that would keep me from posting the dogs pic on her facebook page, or reporting her to the canine officer,  would be the greater good of helping the dog.

We have a rescue dog. She was very destructive in our home whenever we left. She stole food - dog loves bananas, fish hooks, a bag of Rx meds, which she wasn't able to open, chewed the arm of the sofa. I can't remember all the stuff that she has ruined, but we knew we'd find some surprise whenever we returned home. The good news is she has gotten much, much better, but it took a long time for her to realize that we would always come home. We used gates to confine her to the kitchen when we weren't home. That might work better for your new dog, than closing a door on him. Almost every dog I've had, hated closed doors. The only advice I have is patience and vigilance - make sure you don't leave anything in the dogs reach that you don't want him to have - but you already figured that out.

FWIW, I've brought adult dogs and puppies into my home with an existing dog. It's been dramatic every single time. I've had to keep dogs separated and jump over the blasted baby gates for months on end. But every single time, the dogs have eventually become best friends and couch hogs. 

Good luck with whatever decision you make. 

badbnagdway

This is the little guy. He acts like an old man but he's 5. 

STARMOON44

I mean, I get it, but you're now stealing a dog, and/or entering into a complicated and long term relationship as a foster parent with a woman you know is a terrible dog owner while getting more and more attached to her pets. I really think you should contact whoever deals with stray dogs where you live and at least discuss your plans.

thefanciestbeckler

badbnagdway said:

This is the little guy. He acts like an old man but he's 5. 

Omg I just want to hug him! He is so cute. Poor little buddy.

OliveOilsMom

You are getting into a sticky grey area with the woman's response to you.  She seems to not care about her dogs, but they are also her dogs.  As Starmoon says, I think you need to contact animal control.  It could very well be illegal for her to keep the dogs at the house the way she does.  It is also very understandable now, why the dog has separation anxiety.  He has had his home changed, which dogs don't always do well with, and then he is left alone for long periods of time.  I also feel badly for the older dog, who has been alone for 3 days now.

Also, what is the weather like where you are?  And what type of shelter is provided for them?  If it is not suitable, again this woman could be in serious trouble.

badbnagdway

STARMOON44 said:

I mean, I get it, but you're now stealing a dog, and/or entering into a complicated and long term relationship as a foster parent with a woman you know is a terrible dog owner while getting more and more attached to her pets. I really think you should contact whoever deals with stray dogs where you live and at least discuss your plans.

I definitely see what you're saying and I know my husband has that concern too - that it will be hard once we are attached to give them up. I will see who to call in our area in terms of authorities but my concern would be how animal control would handle this. I assume if they got involved they would be obligated to take the dogs to the local shelter temporarily. A 13 year old dog and a dog with extreme anxiety would not be put up for adoption at the place they would be taken to, they would be put to sleep. They have also had cases of people's pets being held temporarily being put to sleep by mistake. Yikes.

I also am hesitant to report this woman and create an enemy if there is a chance to work this out amicably. I don't think she is intentionally neglecting these animals even though it has ended up this way. 

badbnagdway

OliveOilsMom said:

You are getting into a sticky grey area with the woman's response to you.  She seems to not care about her dogs, but they are also her dogs.  As Starmoon says, I think you need to contact animal control.  It could very well be illegal for her to keep the dogs at the house the way she does.  It is also very understandable now, why the dog has separation anxiety.  He has had his home changed, which dogs don't always do well with, and then he is left alone for long periods of time.  I also feel badly for the older dog, who has been alone for 3 days now.

Also, what is the weather like where you are?  And what type of shelter is provided for them?  If it is not suitable, again this woman could be in serious trouble.

See my answer above re authorities, but my inclination is that they would handle the situation badly. Doesn't mean I won't follow-up with them to see what the options are. 

The question is whether she really wants them back or would want them back when her home is completed, and whether she would take good care of them if she got them back. If we have the dogs for six months and manage to get the boy's anxiety under control it's probably not fair to him to put him back into a household that enabled/created his anxiety in the first place. 

I guess we have a lot to talk about and think through on this. 

hellohkb

I agree that it is a sticky situation and have no advice. I see your concerns about calling shelters, though.

For the separation anxiety, I've heard wonderful things about calming treats. Amazon sells them for dogs (and cats!) and apparently can be used for separation anxiety, travel, thunder, etc. I am moving cross country with an anxious cat and am buying them for her, perhaps these can be an option for the little guy too.

thefanciestbeckler

badbnagdway said:

STARMOON44 said:

I mean, I get it, but you're now stealing a dog, and/or entering into a complicated and long term relationship as a foster parent with a woman you know is a terrible dog owner while getting more and more attached to her pets. I really think you should contact whoever deals with stray dogs where you live and at least discuss your plans.

I definitely see what you're saying and I know my husband has that concern too - that it will be hard once we are attached to give them up. I will see who to call in our area in terms of authorities but my concern would be how animal control would handle this. I assume if they got involved they would be obligated to take the dogs to the local shelter temporarily. A 13 year old dog and a dog with extreme anxiety would not be put up for adoption at the place they would be taken to, they would be put to sleep. They have also had cases of people's pets being held temporarily being put to sleep by mistake. Yikes.

I also am hesitant to report this woman and create an enemy if there is a chance to work this out amicably. I don't think she is intentionally neglecting these animals even though it has ended up this way. 

You have to do what is right by the animals too, though. If a person doesn't take care of their pets, they can get in serious legal trouble. This lady is actually very lucky that she hasn't already had animal control called on her by someone else. If you are concerned that the dogs might get put to sleep, you could call animal control and then immediately adopt the dogs yourself.

ETF words

STARMOON44

badbnagdway said:

STARMOON44 said:

I mean, I get it, but you're now stealing a dog, and/or entering into a complicated and long term relationship as a foster parent with a woman you know is a terrible dog owner while getting more and more attached to her pets. I really think you should contact whoever deals with stray dogs where you live and at least discuss your plans.

I definitely see what you're saying and I know my husband has that concern too - that it will be hard once we are attached to give them up. I will see who to call in our area in terms of authorities but my concern would be how animal control would handle this. I assume if they got involved they would be obligated to take the dogs to the local shelter temporarily. A 13 year old dog and a dog with extreme anxiety would not be put up for adoption at the place they would be taken to, they would be put to sleep. They have also had cases of people's pets being held temporarily being put to sleep by mistake. Yikes.

I also am hesitant to report this woman and create an enemy if there is a chance to work this out amicably. I don't think she is intentionally neglecting these animals even though it has ended up this way. 


I don't think it's necessarily true that they would need to take the dogs in, but if you don't want to wind up on Judge Judy you should give them a call.

OliveOilsMom

If you are reluctant to call the authorities, I would document now the treatment of the animals.  Get a copy of your vet's notes from the visit.  Go take pictures of where the animals are being held and they type of shelter they have.  Get some statements from the other neighbors that they frequently saw this animal and maybe the other dog roaming around the neighborhood alone.

That way if this woman ever tries to do anything against you with the authorities, you have a record of everything that has taken place.  This would protect you, at least.

badbnagdway

OliveOilsMom said:

If you are reluctant to call the authorities, I would document now the treatment of the animals.  Get a copy of your vet's notes from the visit.  Go take pictures of where the animals are being held and they type of shelter they have.  Get some statements from the other neighbors that they frequently saw this animal and maybe the other dog roaming around the neighborhood alone.

That way if this woman ever tries to do anything against you with the authorities, you have a record of everything that has taken place.  This would protect you, at least.

This is a good idea. I wish I had better documented how bad his fleas were at first as we have already really improved his condition in a couple of days. I will take pictures of his scabby tail tonight and if it isn't dark we'll do some additional recon at her house. I haven't met the other dog but I can't imagine that she is in much better shape than the little guy, especially given that she is so old. 

I have done some research and looked at the statutes in our state and they are kind of weak on what constitutes abuse/neglect. We live down south and unfortunately the mentality about what is acceptable with pets is not my mentality or the mentality of many animal lovers. It is not unusual for example in our state for people to have hunting dogs that just roam free around the country side un-fixed and with all sorts of issues. Additionally our statutes on animal cruelty are not strong enough to be assured that someone who is feeding, giving water and shelter to two dogs and visiting them once a day is violating any laws. (I'm of course not sure she's really doing those things but it may be hard to prove she isn't visiting them often enough). 

If we took them as fosters we would make her sign an agreement that spelled out our rights and her rights. The issue would be when/if it is time to give them back would we be able to do so in good conscience. 

ellamber

I would contact animal control in your area, and make a report. Explain the situation. You do not have to give them any information other than a contact number to reach you back. I worked for an agency and we didn't even require that (which made it very difficult.. so I would recommend leaving your first name and phone number.)

My older female was food aggressive as a puppy, and then circumstances brought it back to light with my recent addition. I just make sure she feels very secure, that no one (besides me) is going to take her food from her. For a long time that meant holding the puppy on a leash. She is better now, but watches his every move. As far as separation anxiety, I can't help you. Both my dogs have it, the puppy worse than my older dog (but my older dog has chewed through walls before). 

If you are located near me, I can put you in contact with someone who may be able to help you with this situation. I'm in the DC/tristate area.

MyNameIsNot

Can you talk to your vet or a local rescue organization? Even though there might not be enough to have removed the dogs from her while she had them, this woman has abandoned this dog. There might be some other resources or options out there. 

MairePoppy

She may be saying she wants them because she's embarrassed about neglecting her pets and you know how to contact her. Have you tried asking her, flat out, if you can have the two dogs? She might say yes. Make sure she updates the owner info with the company that micro chipped the dog (s) and get it in writing so she can't accuse you of stealing them. 

SP29

Oh my gosh- poor dogs! Do you now have the older blind one too?

This woman sounds really fishy. Who sits around and waits to respond when you have both a vet and someone else contact you to say, "I HAVE YOUR DOG!". I'd be freaking out. And the fact that the dog "just got out again"- there is obviously an issue. You also have the accounts of other neighbours who have seen the dog out over the past 6 weeks.  

I get that moving is never easy, but leaving two dogs outside, and visiting once per day when they are used to being with their family in the house could be quite extreme. Particularly when you mentioned the bugs, scabs and dirt- I get that dogs may like to roll in the mud, but there's a difference and it doesn't just happen over night.

I would also want to take both dogs, but I agree you may need to contact someone just so you have a paper trail- such as animal control. I would hope they would allow you to file a case and keep the dogs, particularly if you offer to home them ASAP. Make sure you keep a copy of the conversations you had with the owner, money you spend in vet bills and keep a list of all the dates and types of communication you had with the owner, as well as the outcome (i.e. Phone call Dec 26th- no response. Email Dec 27th- no response). 

Let us know how this turns out... I hope in the best interest of the dogs. 

rubyotter217

I'm not a frequent poster, but as a vet tech I wanted to offer a few suggestions.

On the food aggression front, I would feed your two dogs in a completely separate room from the new pup, and like a PP said, slowly start decreasing the distance between them at feeding time as they become more comfortable with each other.  It may even be worth it to try feeding the new little guy in a crate because 1) is he is closed in a crate he is less of a perceived threat to your other dogs, and 2) it may make him like being in his crate because it becomes associated with something positive.

Moving into the separation anxiety, crate training is honestly the best option if you can accomplish it.  Start slowly by only putting him in the crate when you're home, and only for a few minutes at first.  May the crate a comfy and fun place; give him treats every time you put him in, and if he starts to whine or get upset try to wait him out and not give him any attention until he calms himself down (this avoid reinforcing bad behaviors with attention, which to him is a reward always).  Obviously, if he is at risk of hurting himself in the crate, let him out, but do not try to comfort him because that is reinforcing that there is something inherently bad about the crate.  Instead try to get him focused on something else; break out the treats and run through any tricks he knows, then reward him for that.  

Eventually you increase the amount of time he spends in the crate in one sitting, and once he seems comfortable being in the crate while you're home, put him in the crate and leave the house for a few minutes (take a drive around the block) to test the waters.  I highly recommend a kong toy.  You can stuff it with treats or fill with peanut butter and freeze it, then when you put him in the crate to leave you give it to him.  It keeps him occupied trying to get the treats out, and he's getting something pleasurable out of being in the crate. 

It's possible that the separation anxiety may be so severe that some pharmacological intervention may be necessary.  Some options are diphenhydramine (benadryl), which is OTC.  It isn't an anxiolytic, but it will make him drowsy for a couple hours.  Check with your vet for a dose (the dosing is pretty standard, but I don't want to suggest anything as he may have something in his medical history that requires a dose adjustment or contraindicates benadryl use).  If that doesn't work fluoxetine (prozac) may be worth trying.  I've seen it work wonders for anxious pets, and it doesn't have to be a chronic medication.  He would need to take it daily but could eventually try to wean off once his anxiety seems more controlled and he has settled in more.  
If neither of those work, you could also check with your vet about trying alprazolam (xanax) or acepromazine to use only when you'll be leaving him home alone.  This could also be something to try sooner rather than later until you're able to get him comfortable being left alone in a crate.  

Other options to try are prescription foods.  I've heard good things about Royal Canin's Calm diet.  A thunder shirt is also an option, though I haven't seen too much success with thunder shirts, personally. 

I also think it is important that if you foster/adopt his 13 y/o companion, quality of life be taken into account for her.  Labs/lab mixes can be in pretty rough shape by the time they get to 13 (especially prone to arthritis and cancer), and that's not even considering her blindness (which can be a cause for major anxiety and nippiness, since they can't see what's going on around them and who is approaching them).  Not that I'm advocating she be euthanized just because she is an older, blind dog, but I've seen too many dogs forced to live in pain because they were kept alive much too long, so just be mindful that as much as you would want to give her a lovely new home, that may not be what is ultimately best for her (pending an exam from a vet, she may be in great shape for a 13 y/o!).  Though, if you decide to just foster her until her owner can take her back, that is a decision for the owner to make.  

RlovesR

I have a rescue greyhound who used to panic whenever we had to go out.  She'd try frantically to get out the door with us and they're FAST dogs so leaving became this whole thing.  We even had to close the windows because I saw her make a run for one after she heard FH's voice on the street (luckily I was able to call her back, since we were three floors up!).  I found that time, more than anything else, helped her.  She just needed to feel secure and know that we loved her and would always come back.  During the adjustment period, it helped if we left her some old clothes that smelled like us, as well as her Kong so she didn't get bored.

hellohkb

rubyotter217 said:

I'm not a frequent poster, but as a vet tech I wanted to offer a few suggestions.

On the food aggression front, I would feed your two dogs in a completely separate room from the new pup, and like a PP said, slowly start decreasing the distance between them at feeding time as they become more comfortable with each other.  It may even be worth it to try feeding the new little guy in a crate because 1) is he is closed in a crate he is less of a perceived threat to your other dogs, and 2) it may make him like being in his crate because it becomes associated with something positive.

Moving into the separation anxiety, crate training is honestly the best option if you can accomplish it.  Start slowly by only putting him in the crate when you're home, and only for a few minutes at first.  May the crate a comfy and fun place; give him treats every time you put him in, and if he starts to whine or get upset try to wait him out and not give him any attention until he calms himself down (this avoid reinforcing bad behaviors with attention, which to him is a reward always).  Obviously, if he is at risk of hurting himself in the crate, let him out, but do not try to comfort him because that is reinforcing that there is something inherently bad about the crate.  Instead try to get him focused on something else; break out the treats and run through any tricks he knows, then reward him for that.  

Eventually you increase the amount of time he spends in the crate in one sitting, and once he seems comfortable being in the crate while you're home, put him in the crate and leave the house for a few minutes (take a drive around the block) to test the waters.  I highly recommend a kong toy.  You can stuff it with treats or fill with peanut butter and freeze it, then when you put him in the crate to leave you give it to him.  It keeps him occupied trying to get the treats out, and he's getting something pleasurable out of being in the crate. 

It's possible that the separation anxiety may be so severe that some pharmacological intervention may be necessary.  Some options are diphenhydramine (benadryl), which is OTC.  It isn't an anxiolytic, but it will make him drowsy for a couple hours.  Check with your vet for a dose (the dosing is pretty standard, but I don't want to suggest anything as he may have something in his medical history that requires a dose adjustment or contraindicates benadryl use).  If that doesn't work fluoxetine (prozac) may be worth trying.  I've seen it work wonders for anxious pets, and it doesn't have to be a chronic medication.  He would need to take it daily but could eventually try to wean off once his anxiety seems more controlled and he has settled in more.  
If neither of those work, you could also check with your vet about trying alprazolam (xanax) or acepromazine to use only when you'll be leaving him home alone.  This could also be something to try sooner rather than later until you're able to get him comfortable being left alone in a crate.  

Other options to try are prescription foods.  I've heard good things about Royal Canin's Calm diet.  A thunder shirt is also an option, though I haven't seen too much success with thunder shirts, personally. 

I also think it is important that if you foster/adopt his 13 y/o companion, quality of life be taken into account for her.  Labs/lab mixes can be in pretty rough shape by the time they get to 13 (especially prone to arthritis and cancer), and that's not even considering her blindness (which can be a cause for major anxiety and nippiness, since they can't see what's going on around them and who is approaching them).  Not that I'm advocating she be euthanized just because she is an older, blind dog, but I've seen too many dogs forced to live in pain because they were kept alive much too long, so just be mindful that as much as you would want to give her a lovely new home, that may not be what is ultimately best for her (pending an exam from a vet, she may be in great shape for a 13 y/o!).  Though, if you decide to just foster her until her owner can take her back, that is a decision for the owner to make.  

Excellent advice!

badbnagdway

rubyotter217 for your good advice. I agree that re-homing a 13 year old is very difficult. I have not met her yet to know how she will be and how re-homing her will go - and for a larger dog at 13 I agree, she is likely towards the end of her life. It cannot be good for her to be living in her current conditions at her age. 

MairePoppy - I definitely think it's possible that this is true. No one wants to admit that they cannot take care of a pet. 

My husband and I talked it over last night and he is agreeable to us fostering the dogs provided that the elderly one is ok with our other dogs and provided we meet this woman in person and have her sign a foster agreement (I found a pretty good template online and I can modify it). One of the conditions in the foster agreement would be that the woman has suitable living arrangements for the dogs when the period of the agreement expires. 

We feel like this woman and these dogs are in a bad situation and that the right thing to do is to help them all out. 

teddygirl9

Just a word of caution on taking the dogs. Something similar (maybe worse) happened around where I live. A guy found a dog with 2 broken front legs left on a rural road with a bag of dog food. He called a rescue agency, who came to pick up the dog. They took him to the vet, got him surgery/casts and tried to contact the owner. It was looking like a pretty good case of animal abuse against the owner. Anyways, the owner filed a police report against the agency and said that they stole his dog. yes, the dog he left in the middle of nowhere sitting on a bag of food. The government SPCA had to step in and seize the dog 'during the investigation'. And this is with a registered rescue organization, not just a random person.

I'd just be real careful with it. FWIW, he's fricken adorable

badbnagdway

teddygirl9 said:

Just a word of caution on taking the dogs. Something similar (maybe worse) happened around where I live. A guy found a dog with 2 broken front legs left on a rural road with a bag of dog food. He called a rescue agency, who came to pick up the dog. They took him to the vet, got him surgery/casts and tried to contact the owner. It was looking like a pretty good case of animal abuse against the owner. Anyways, the owner filed a police report against the agency and said that they stole his dog. yes, the dog he left in the middle of nowhere sitting on a bag of food. The government SPCA had to step in and seize the dog 'during the investigation'. And this is with a registered rescue organization, not just a random person.

I'd just be real careful with it. FWIW, he's fricken adorable

That is truly terrible. If we have her sign an agreement she has no case to later say we stole them. 

She seems like she is actually somewhat agreeable to giving the little boy up completely (I told her our only fear is that we will get attached and she indicated she may just let him go) but the older girl is non-negotiable she wants it back when she can take her. The little boy dog is the sweetest, quietest dog. Until you put him in a crate, lock him in the bathroom or leave the house. Then he loses it and goes nuts. I think that is a lot for someone to take. We are hoping with our research and the tips I've learned from you all we can help him to be less anxious about being left alone.