WWYD - update

lyndausvi

There was a huge investigation at the club and the new GM recommended the entire F&B department be fired (including DH).   

Apparently everyone was on a some sort of secret double probation.      

The board called foul and said "no."   We support a policy change, just not the way you went about the change.  You have to tell people first.  Everyone would have been "bummer" and then moved on.   All good things come to an end type thing.  

Then if they mess up then you write them up, fire, whatever.   You do not let them continue for 6 months then fire when the season is over.  

 However, they compromised with the GM that DH's boss (S) would be demoted.  

  There is NO love lost between S and the GM.   S has NEVER liked him (he started in May) and has been down right disrespectful to him and one guy he brought to work at the club.   Really bad.   S has been there for 15 years and did NOT like there was a new sheriff in town.    

  DH on the other hand, plays the game.  He has been through many GM changes.  It can suck, but what can you do other than go with the flow? S on the other hand would flat out ignore the new GM's requests. 

Anyway, S just confided in DH that secretly records conversations with the GM.   DH is very uneasy that he knows that S is recording conversations, but doesn't know if he should tell the GM or not.    He is grateful for being able to keep his job and wants to support the GM.

So WWYD?  Tell the GM or not?

sorry so long.  It's been an interesting week.

thisismynickname2

lyndausvi said:

  DH on the other hand, plays the game.  He has been through many GM changes.  It can suck, but what can you do other than go with the flow? S on the other hand would flat out ignore the new GM's requests. 

Anyway, S just confided in DH that secretly records conversations with the GM.   DH is very uneasy that he knows that S is recording conversations, but doesn't know if he should tell the GM or not.    He is grateful for being able to keep his job and wants to support the GM.

So WWYD?  Tell the GM or not?
=

Your operative word, to me, is "confided." I would stay the hell out of this. Pretend S never said anything. Never talk to S about recorded conversations. Keep head down, keep doing what I'm doing. I think the worst that would happen in that case is, if shit hit the fan, the GM could ask your DH, "Did you know about this?" And the answer would be, "Yes, but I felt it best to stay out of S's personal issues and thus said nothing."

I was kind of sort of in a similar situation last year. A close coworker of mine had a huge ethical issue with our boss. However, I'd already heard the boss's side, and had not witnessed the alleged ethics thing. I advised my coworker to have her say with HR and never said anything to my boss. I'm still here, coworker is not.  
Not my circus, not my monkey. 

thefanciestbeckler

Gosh. What a weird situation. I think if I was your H I would tell the GM about the recordings. I would not feel comfortable with knowing something like that and keeping it a secret. What if, in some weird chain of events, the GM found out about the recordings and also found out that your H knew about them and didn't speak up?

KatWAG

Not your monkeys, not your circus. Your H should stay out of any drama between S and the GM. Your H can still "support" the GM without tattling.

jenna8984

KatWAG said:

Not your monkeys, not your circus. Your H should stay out of any drama between S and the GM. Your H can still "support" the GM without tattling.

YUP. Unless S recorded telling me that, I'd deny ever knowing if asked.

banana468

jenna8984 said:

KatWAG said:

Not your monkeys, not your circus. Your H should stay out of any drama between S and the GM. Your H can still "support" the GM without tattling.

YUP. Unless S recorded telling me that, I'd deny ever knowing if asked.

If he's secretly recording, what's to say that he didn't record that conversation with your DH?   This is like a pathological liar saying, "I'm a pathological liar but I SWEAR I'm telling the truth this time."   I just wouldn't believe that anything is stated in confidence. 

Honestly if I was your DH I'd consider talking to a lawyer about legalities.   There are rules about how you can and can't record someone and whether or not consent needs to be given.   Plausible deniability is great but if S basically admitted to breaking the law then I would want to get my ducks in a row before I opened my mouth.   In the meantime, I'd be quiet and I would NEVER put S in a state of being the only one having information. 

I'm of the school that I'll do what you want me to do unless it's to order the Code Red.    And when that happens I need to cover my rumpus. 

Man that sucks.   I'm sorry Lynda. 

PrettyGirlLost

What caused the investigation and who did the investigating?

OliveOilsMom

I'm with Banana on this.  Talk with a lawyer about this.  Your DH could be implicated in the recordings just by "knowing" about them.  If it is illegal to have only one party know about recorded conversations, in CO, then this could also hurt your DH by association.  I would take the lawyer's advice on how to proceed.

As for S, if I were your DH, I would try to avoid one on one conversations.  I would also try to make sure the GM is looped in on everything DH has going on, if necessary.  Or at the least, when S & DH have an exchanged of some kind, DH writes it down and keeps a documentation of everything S tells him to do.

themosthappy91

Ditto PP's who are concerned about the legal implications of recording someone without their consent- that sounds so dicey, and if S has his convo with your H recorded as well (no way of knowing) I'd be concerned your H would be considered responsible in some way. Sounds like this S is kind of a loose cannon.

What a crazy situation though! I'm also curious to know more about the investigation.

banana468

OliveOilsMom said:

I'm with Banana on this.  Talk with a lawyer about this.  Your DH could be implicated in the recordings just by "knowing" about them.  If it is illegal to have only one party know about recorded conversations, in CO, then this could also hurt your DH by association.  I would take the lawyer's advice on how to proceed.

As for S, if I were your DH, I would try to avoid one on one conversations.  I would also try to make sure the GM is looped in on everything DH has going on, if necessary.  Or at the least, when S & DH have an exchanged of some kind, DH writes it down and keeps a documentation of everything S tells him to do.

All of that as well.   Even something as simple as, "Keeping you in the loop that I spoke to S about this adjustment," makes sure that he's covering his rear.

It has been very rare that the old ones want to go down without a fight.  

pinkcow13

Gosh... my first instinct would be to stay away and not say anything, but like another posted mentioned, what if S recorded the conversation between her and your H? I'm not sure... maybe he should speak to HR about this?

lyndausvi

PrettyGirlLost said:

What caused the investigation and who did the investigating?

Long story.

Front of the house (ie. servers, bartenders, etc) have been having a problem for a while now.  DH's side (back-of-the-house) is fine.   When the GM started he was told there is an issue with the FOH.   So GM brought in a new manager under S.    

S was NOT happy this guy was reporting to him.  S and the other FOH managers treated him like shit.    So basically S treated the GM and his buddy disrespectful.    (dh plays the game.  He is skiing with the buddy right now, but is always aware he his closeness to the GM).

Every since we got here I thought something is sketchy with S. I know he has a side wine business, but something is not right.

The new GM is very big on accountability.   S is the opposite.   GM asks for something to be implemented and S just flat out refuses.

The investigation was drinking on the job.  Now under the old GM and end of the night shift drink was allowed.  The new GM asked when he arrived and said it was still okay.

For reason I can not explain he changed his tune on the subject yet did not tell anyone.   So basically for the last 6 months the staff might have a drink while cleaning up thinking it was okay.    

GM wanted a reason to get rid of S.   So he started an investigation into  drinking on the job. Then determined the entire staff was violating policy and needed to be let go.   S, being the leader, turning a blind eye and need to be let go also.  (have to wonder if the GM wants to bring in his own team).

What the GM didn't take into consideration was (1) he specifically told DH in a meeting with others it was okay.  (2) Board members and regular members would come into the kitchen and give drinks to the staff. i.e. if your boss's boss gives you a drink, it must be okay  (3) Not one person had ever had an orientation or signed a handbook stating polices.  


The board said "no. We are not firing everyone".  Main reason being that the GM himself didn't announce a change in policy.    Another reason is 4 dept heads have quit or been forced out in the last 5 months.   The members are NOT happy long term employees are gone.     DH and his staff are making record numbers.  He is beloved.   The board would have their assess handed to them if DH was let go right now.  Especially over a drink that more than likely one of them gave him or his staff anyway.


They can't have a lame duck GM, so the compromise was the staff gets a slap on the wrist and have to sign they know of the no shift drink policy.    S gets demoted for not being a good manager.    

Of course, S doesn't like the demotion his job when we arrived almost 2 years ago).  Which is odd, because he spends more time on that area anyway.    He would basically ignore the rest of the dept and focus on wines. 




In CO is a one-person consent state.  So as long as S is in the conversation it's legal.   S can't record DH talking to the GM though.
 

lyndausvi

pinkcow13 said:

Gosh... my first instinct would be to stay away and not say anything, but like another posted mentioned, what if S recorded the conversation between her and your H? I'm not sure... maybe he should speak to HR about this?

there isn't really much an an HR department.   

glasgowtolondon

If it were me I think I'd be in the camp of not my circus, not my monkeys for sure. However I'd definitely be wary of this guy recording other conversations than just with GM. I guess if it all came out in the future and this conversation had been recorded too, or S mentions that he told yr H he could always keep the 'I didn't think he was actually serious' excuse up his sleeve.

I hate political things like this at work, I usually try to stay the hell out of it unless I have no choice!

banana468

I would be wary of both. The double secret probation makes neither all that trustworthy.

Can your DH talk to anyone on the board?

NowIAmSyp

Holy crap.  This reminds me so much of my time in hotels.  So much secrecy and double-talk and even downright backstabbing sometimes.  Ugh- politics.  So glad I got out!  

I think I join the camp of "Not my circus."  But I'd definitely have your H be wary of both for a while and just stay as out-of-it as possible.  Sorry you're going through this!

PrettyGirlLost

Holy shit!  ><

kimmiinthemitten

I'm with Banana and I'd consult an attorney, just to be on the safe side.  Sounds like a stressful environment to work in though, I feel for your DH.

Oh, and for the employees who just lost their shift drink:).

kmmssg

My thought would be that if slimy is recording his boss, he may well be recording your DH too.  I would talk to an attorney for sure.

CMGragain

Tell DH to become Sergeant Shultz.  "I know NOTHING. I hear NOTHING!"

huskypuppy14

Your DH has done nothing wrong. Since what S did is not illegal in your state, DH is not involved in any crime. Personally, I'd stay out of it. 

S and the GM sound like asshats. 

lyndausvi

huskypuppy14 said:

Your DH has done nothing wrong. Since what S did is not illegal in your state, DH is not involved in any crime. Personally, I'd stay out of it. 

S and the GM sound like asshats. 

Yep.  And DH is the pawn.

Of the 7 directors when we started, only 3 are left.   DH being one of them.  We have been here less than 2 years.  

DH will be looking for another job soon.  Which is a shame.  It was a dream job. 

arrippa

This whole situation sucks; I am so sorry.

I agree with the others. Since no crime was committed, I would stay out of it.

kmmssg

lyndausvi said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Your DH has done nothing wrong. Since what S did is not illegal in your state, DH is not involved in any crime. Personally, I'd stay out of it. 

S and the GM sound like asshats. 

Yep.  And DH is the pawn.

Of they 7 directors when we started, only 3 are left.   DH being one of them.  We have been here less than 2 years.  

DH will be looking for another job soon.  Which is a shame.  It was a dream job. 

Lynda I am so sorry. I caught on a long time ago what a dream job this is for your DH. That sucks.

OliveOilsMom

kmmssg said:

lyndausvi said:

huskypuppy14 said:

Your DH has done nothing wrong. Since what S did is not illegal in your state, DH is not involved in any crime. Personally, I'd stay out of it. 

S and the GM sound like asshats. 

Yep.  And DH is the pawn.

Of they 7 directors when we started, only 3 are left.   DH being one of them.  We have been here less than 2 years.  

DH will be looking for another job soon.  Which is a shame.  It was a dream job. 

Lynda I am so sorry. I caught on a long time ago what a dream job this is for your DH. That sucks.

That is a shame.  I recall how excited you guys were to be moving to CO since this was DH's dream job.  Is there anyone above GM he can talk to and mention that he is thinking of moving on due to all the issues between GM & S?  It seems that your DH is beloved by most of the members, would that have any sway in the situation?

lyndausvi

We have been in contact with one of the board members who we are close.   The board is well aware of the issue between the GM and S.   They basically say S is his worse enemy.   His options are take the demotion or quit.   S's wife also works at the club.  She sent DH a text she sent to the GM.  OMG, I would be surprised if she has a job left.


The board member said that with so many department heads being let go and/or quitting they felt that DH being let go would do more harm to the club and staff moral.   So DH and his staff were "saved".        

However, they all have a dept meeting at noon.  I'm excepting some sort of punishment.  Not sure what, but I wouldn't be surprised if pay cuts, few day suspension, lose of bonus or something.  The GM is sneaky and I'm sure part of compromise was punishment at his discretion, which might make them want to leave.    Because, well he is like that.   Not going to fire you, but make it so you will want to leave type guy.

 The board member's wife texted me last night saying she was thinking of us and let them know how the meeting went.   I could be reading into this too much, but to me that means there is something they are not allowed to tell us coming down the pipe.

DH will take anything they offer. If it's bad enough he will then look for a new job.  It's easier to look for a new job when you have one.   This time of year he only works 4.5 days a week until end of March.  Then he has 4-6 weeks off.  He can continue to ski, go on interviews, etc.   

banana468

The new boss sounds like he's out for blood and wanting to clean house.   So he probably has a stockpile of people he wants to bring in to re-staff and set up the club.

And if he's setting up punishments because he can and because there was no previous outline of what was and wasn't acceptable then he knows that everyone is going to play into his hand.   So he has everyone exactly where he wants them.   

I've gone through things like this in the manufacturing industry.   And if there's no HR / set of policies on what is and isn't OK then this new GM gets to be captain of his ship how he sees fit as long as it doesn't piss off the board?   

Man, this just sounds like it's not going to go well. 

lyndausvi

banana468 said:

The new boss sounds like he's out for blood and wanting to clean house.   So he probably has a stockpile of people he wants to bring in to re-staff and set up the club.

And if he's setting up punishments because he can and because there was no previous outline of what was and wasn't acceptable then he knows that everyone is going to play into his hand.   So he has everyone exactly where he wants them.   

I've gone through things like this in the manufacturing industry.   And if there's no HR / set of policies on what is and isn't OK then this new GM gets to be captain of his ship how he sees fit as long as it doesn't piss off the board?   

Man, this just sounds like it's not going to go well. 

CO is an At Will state.  So really they can get rid of people for no reason.

I'm speculating on the punishment.  I just do not believe he will give them a slap on the wrist.    DH confirmed it's a group meeting not individual, so that is good (they do not normally reprimand in a group setting).    I'm preparing for the worse case.

Since I do not know what the board's expectations for the new GM.  So it's hard to say what they are thinking.   A lot members are NOT impressed and some downright pissed off key people have been leaving. 

When it was announced they found a new GM DH asked if he was going to bring in his own people.  A few of the board members said that would not be the case.    Well fast forward 7 months and that is exactly the case.   Sucks, but hardly unusual for the industry.

lyndausvi

I guess it's all over for DH and his staff.    GM laid down the law, but no punishment.     Everyone just wants to move on.

Not sure what S's status it is.

thanks for being my sounding board.  

kimmiinthemitten

lyndausvi said:

I guess it's all over for DH and his staff.    GM laid down the law, but no punishment.     Everyone just wants to move on.

Not sure what S's status it is.

thanks for being my sounding board.  

Wait, I'm confused.  It's all over as in move on to another job or it's all over let bygones be bygones??

lyndausvi

kimmiinthemitten said:

lyndausvi said:

I guess it's all over for DH and his staff.    GM laid down the law, but no punishment.     Everyone just wants to move on.

Not sure what S's status it is.

thanks for being my sounding board.  

Wait, I'm confused.  It's all over as in move on to another job or it's all over let bygones be bygones??

Sorry, let bygones by bygones.

No punishment, no pay cuts, still get bonus.  He actually did give them a slap on the wrist. (maybe he isn't as bad as I thought?)     At least for DH and his staff it's getting back to business as normal.

The FOH side of the department, well that might be a different story.  I still do not know S's status.  I haven't seen DH to ask.   He only text me about him and his staff.