Have you talked to your parents about retirement?

labro

H and I are thinking of initiating this conversation with his parents when they come to visit us sometime this year. I don't want to make it a HUGE thing (and everything I read says it's better to make it a series of short conversations anyway, but we rarely get to see them face to face)....but we're both concerned and very much in the dark about their retirement plan and other items like end-of-life, long term care, etc. His mom and dad struggled financially for a long time and we know that their savings are likely not where they ought to be at their age. I've been doing some research here and there about broaching the topic, and subjects to focus on...but what I love about TK is reading people's personal experiences too. And I know there are some moms here with grown children. Have you had this discussion with your kids? Or are you planning to eventually?

I think the point I'm most concerned about deals with their retirement. They're both in their early 50s...so it's maybe a little early for the conversation, but I also kind of think it's a good time because it means we have 15 plus years to do some work to improve the financial outlook in their retirement years.

My own parents have been great about this and about initiating conversations with us. I'm the executrix of their estate, I know where all the important documents are, I have an idea of what my parents want for end of life care. But H and I know nothing about what his mom and dad desire, where the documents are, nothing. I just want to make this as un-awkward as I can.

lyndausvi

My parents are all set up.  They contributed to their own retirements before us kids got any extras.  My dad also has 2 pensions.  One from his first job of 35 years and another small one from his 2nd career of 15 years. House paid for.  Thinking about downsizing to another house.  Which would be paid for and have more in the bank.


My MIL on the other hand isn't really set up. She worked under the table for years.    She has money stashed away and gets some public assistance, but i can't see it being enough for the rest of her life (she is almost 70).

  I figure at some point we will have to send cash her way.  Not a lot, but a little to help.   Which is fine.  My dad sent money to my grandparents when they were alive and my dad was the son-in-law.  As long as we contribute to our's before helping her it's all good.

labro

@lyndausvi I think we may end up financially supporting my ILs in some way in the future...Which is ok! But I'm hoping we can take some action now to hopefully build up what they do have before it happens. And it'd be nice to better understand the situation too so at least H and I can try to plan for it. Our focus has been on our retirement only, but if our savings aren't going to meet supporting them while leaving enough for us in the future then maybe we need to consider changing what we're doing now too.

lovesclimbing

No, not with either of our parents. My parents are still pretty young because they got married and had kids young. I think my dad is turning 50 this year, so they're still pretty young (and are actually caring for their parents right now.)

I think my parents are setting themselves up to be healthy and financially stable and taking care of themselves for the next three to four decades at least.

H's parents, I'm not sure. They are also fairly young (mid-50s, and are also helping care for their own parents), but we're both concerned about what they'll do after they can't work anymore. They are self employed (as are my parents, but my parents are doing well transitioning from earning money through physical jobs to earning money through investments, which H's parents have not done.)

I am more concerned about H's parents, but I think the conversation is still 5-10 years off.

arrippa

My mom is pretty open to my brother and I about her retirement/end of life financials/plans. She has always told/showed us where she keeps her financials and other important documents. She was also very forthcoming about her will and other end of life plans.

My dad, OTOH, doesn't talk to us at all about anything. He is already retired and gets a good pension from working for the county for years. He is pretty set.

They both own their houses in Cali (both in Silicon Valley) so that's their major asset.

kvruns

TBH I think it is a weird conversation to have asking my parents or in-laws what their retirement plans are because it is none of my business. (Disclosure: my parents and in-laws are all retired but saying this as if they were not) If they want to retire at 55 or 75 or 85 or never retire that is their prerogative, not mine, and they don't need to discuss it with me. I think it would be weird to bring up too, depending on how it was structured. I mean a casual "when do you hope to retire" thing is fine but something along the lines of "I'm concerned you wont be able to retire because you don't manage your money well" would be out of line in my eyes. 

If you have had open conversations about money and stuff with parents or in-laws in the past and this is in line with those talks I would change my answer. But from where I sit it would be weird. I have no idea how my parents spend their money now for the most part and they don't ask about mine.   

Wills, end-of-life care, important documents, etc makes total sense and I think that is fine to bring up and definitely is good to know about. I think my parents gave us all a copy of their will a few years ago though I don't think I ever read it.

thefanciestbeckler

My mom is really open with me, DH and my brother about retirement plans. She's in a pretty odd situation. She was a SAHM my entire life, other than working part time jobs sometimes. My father left her a couple of years ago after 27 years of marriage, leaving her with very very little retirement funds. So now, at 57, she's having to figure out what the future will look like. I'm sure DH and I will help her financially since we will (hopefully) be in a good enough place financially to help.

[Deleted User]

His parents are set.  They've been retired for about 7 years now.  Each year around tax time, FMIL sends a nice long letter to each of her sons listing their assets, accounts, pensions, etc and where to find all the information (i.e. In the black folder in the bottom right desk drawer.)

My parents on the other hand... sigh.  Dad just recently said, "Oh, yeah, maybe we should have a will."  They're both in their mid sixties and already retired.  They seem to have plenty of money socked away and in different investments, but hell if I know where or what they are.  And god forbid one or both of them need end of life decisions made.  It will fall on me as my sister is an emotional mess and I'm the one with a heart of stone.  But I wouldn't know how to get the finances to pay for anything they'd need, if they have enough money, medicare, insurance, savings, assets, blah.

Yeah, folks, have this conversation when your parents are in their 50s and maybe they'll have their acts together by the time they've retired.

labro

@kvruns I actually think my ILs do well enough at money management with what they do have, but they've had many years in their lives filled with non and under employment, living at the poverty level, being under water in a mortgage, not being able to save for emergencies much less retirement, etc. I guess I come from a pretty open family though. My dad helps his parents manage their investments and figure out what they need to do with what they have in order to stretch it for as long as they think they need it.

With that said...I do think it's better to enter in a soft way like you said. "When do you hope to retire/ what do you see your retirement like", versus, "we're concerned about your savings". I definitely don't want to come across as if we know better than them. But I'd love to say there's an opportunity for us to help strategize and improve their quality of life in retirement.

[Deleted User]

"We've been looking at how we manage our money and how much we need to put into 401Ks and IRAs and such.  What did you guys do when you were our age, what are you changing now that you're getting closer to retirement?  Oh, you need to look into that?  Is there anything we can do to help you figure it out?  I read an interesting article the other day about..."

kimmiinthemitten

My parents are both retired.  My mom is legally blind/deaf and after some punks tripped her and she broke her glasses and her manager made her finish her shift I marched in there and took her home.  Unfortunately, SSDI pays peanuts and she'll need more care in the future.  We've talked about it a lot, she knows the next step is likely living here with us and then an assisted care facility that specializes in Deaf/Blind patients.  To her the most important thing i keep in mind for all conversations is her independence.  She's in her late 50's (retired 10 years) and still wants control over as much as possible.  We started the transition by making me her POA, that way she is still in charge, but if need be I can and do step in and handle things on her behalf.

FMIL also needs to retire for health issues but refuses to and becomes very angry every time FI brings it up.  Her argument is she won't be 65 for 3 ,ore years and wants her full pension.  He reminds her that her pension won't be worth much if she can't walk and that he cares about her health before anything else.  His hope is with a continuing, kind conversation she'll at least talk to him about it like a rational adult should.

Both dads are set.  One is retired, other still working but both have set everything up and we know where to get the information if we need to.

My best advice is to take it slow and read between the lines.  Don't push the conversation if they don't want to have it right away, but gently keep asking.  I respectfully disagree with @kvruns.  Their bank account may not be your business but these are conversations worth having before they're required because when an emergency happens, emotions are on the line and make decision making much more stressful than they need to be (I.e. Retirement, health wishes, funeral planning, emergency plans).

julieanne912

My mom retired last year, so while I don't know exactly what she has, I know they're doing OK.  She works one day per week still, but she can't earn over a certain amount.  She's very careful with her money and planned very well ahead.  Also, my stepdad is 12 years younger than her, so he'll be working for awhile which means she won't have to dip as much into her funds.  He's not a high earner though. She got him set up saving more for himself when they got married so he'll have some for retirement too when the time comes.  

But if it came down to it, I'd figure out a way to help her.  But I really don't think she'll need it unless she somehow runs out because of living to a very old age.  They've talked about moving out here to be close to me and our hypothetical baby (HB).  If that happened, their COL would increase so I'd probably "pay" her to babysit HB to make up for the higher housing costs here... still would be cheaper than daycare.

I do wish she was a bit more open about some things... like what all she did with the money she received when my dad passed away.  But, really, it's her money, not ours (she's the one who paid his life insurance premiums), so it really isn't my business.  I do know she used a small portion of it to pay for my wedding, and I also know she lost some of it because of the dot com crash in the early 2000s.  

thisismynickname2

I generally know that my parents are set for retirement (so long as they remain very very conservative with expenses). My dad is actually already retired but my mom is younger. 
If anything, my parents have been talking to me a lot over the years about MY retirement. SAVE INVEST SAVE INVEST... I've had it drilled into me. 

They're not so detailed that they've told us where to find the will and how to dispose of assets. It's probably because they don't expect to die at the exact same time so surely they know what to do when the other one goes. And, knocking wood, they're both in decent health so long term care concerns have never been discussed. 

lyndausvi

I think is a you need to know your crowd thing. 

I've never spoken to my parents about retirement.  Dad retired back in April of last year.   All I know is they go on a shit ton of trips.  Next month they are spending a month going to Argentina, cruise to Antartica and Colombia.   In the summer they are coming out here to hit their last 4 states.   By the end of 2016 they will have hit every continent and all 50 states.      

That said we have talked about wills, living wills (i.e. neither parents wants to be kept alive by a machine.), how they do not want to live with any of their children if they get sick.  Stuff like that.   That stuff has nothing to do with retirement.    You can drop dead at any point.

Financial they have always been set, it's not a topic of conversation we need to have at this time.   We know where they wills are kept.  My parents are the most organized people I know.  All their account information, insurance and stuff will be easy to find.  

 If and when we feel the need to get POAs we will.  Although I think my brother is their medical POA for the surviving spouse should one of them dies.   As of now my parents are each other's POAs.

huskypuppy14

I agree with @kvruns - retirement is different than wills and end of life. Honestly, I think my parents and in-laws retirement plans are none of my business. My parents are only in their 50s and they are financially sound. My in laws are older late 60s and late 70s, but they own their own small business. 

When my grandfather died in 2007, he did not have a will. Luckily, my grandmother (who was an accountant) managed the money and had her name on all the accounts, even though my grandfather made the majority of the money. It was a really stressful time for my mom and her siblings, and my grandmother. Right after that, my parents set up their wills. My dad gave me the card to their attorney if anything happens to them. I am their power of attorney, as I am the oldest. 

My assumption would be my in-laws have a will, and if I had to guess, my husband's oldest brother is probably the power of attorney for them. I don't feel this is my business.

My husband and I have talked about writing a will, since we have a baby on the way. Currently, all of our assets are joint for the most part, and we are each other's beneficiaries. My car is only in my name, but since he's my spouse and it's paid off, I don't see that being a big problem. 

CMGragain

The conversation isn't always possible.  My late mother lied to me about her finances her entire life.  All I ever heard was "I don't have any money!  I can't afford it!"  But when it was something she wanted, like a new car, or clothes, she always seemed to have the money.
She died at age 89.  When I called the bank to check on funds for her funeral, I was told that she had $113,000 in her CHECKING ACCOUNT!!!  The estate totaled half a million.  I am still furious that she lied to me all those years.

redwoodoriginal

I think they're very different conversations. I don't think it's my business to ask my parents if they have enough for retirement. That said, they are already retired. They are on Medicare for their insurance and do occasionally complain about certain meds not being covered, or how my dad lost a lot in his 401k during the 2008ish recession, etc, but I always tell them if they need help I will help them, to which they respond, it's okay, we can cover it. They have some financial assets in renting out some apts they own, etc, and some pensions but I don't know the full extent, nor do I feel the need to. I know they have a list of all their financial institutions information in their safe box in case they both die and I need to step in and figure shit out. 

Alternatively, over Christmas we sat down and had a very long talk about end of life care. My H got them the documents they need to fill out with their explicit demands, most of which I already knew, but also included talks about funeral vs cremation, etc, and that was done - Merry Christmas! Bummer, but necessary since my dad is 74 and while my mom is younger, they both have their fair share of health issues. That was a convo I think does need to be had. Retirement, not so much. 

CMGragain

Today I submitted my Medicare card to my oncologist.  In two weeks, I will be 65.  Yay!  I'm gonna make it!
DH retired at age 55.  We have his pension and my social security, plus lots of savings investments.  During the past two years we inherited unexpected family money.
Our kids know that we have all that we need.  We make sure that they are OK, too.  If there is a financial crisis, we are there to help them.
Signing our new wills later this month.  Also end of life plans.  I guess we should think about buying a cemetery plot.
Meanwhile, we are headed to the Caribbean next month.  So glad we were so frugal when we were young.

SP29

I don't really talk to my parents about retirement, nor have I discussed end of life care (that is a more important one, I think, but my difficult to bring up).

My dad is more open than my mom, I have a general idea of his financial status (not the hard numbers, but I know his plan to pay off his house, for example). My dad regularly tells me the story of if he retired at X age he would get Y dollars per month, but if he just hangs in there another 3 years, he'll get Z amount (he wants to retire as early as he can afford to). Both my parents are still working, and will be for some time. And while my mom is not well off, they are also perfectly fine managing their own finances, so at this point, it's not my business. 

DH's parents are older (like 1-2 generations older than mine), and both retired. DH is pretty aware of his mother's finances, as he manages some of her money for her in RRSPs, stocks, etc.

DH's dad.... oh geeze. We know he lives off his pension, plus he farms and sells at the local farmers markets, so he doesn't make a lot. We also know he has debt still, but not how much. We also don't know what he's got in the bank. For all we know, he's got money stashed around his farm in random places (seriously!). This has come up more recently, as his dad keeps talking about getting old, how he won't be able to farm soon (he talks like he's going to keel over next week... but he's pretty healthy for his age and considering the health issues he does have, I'm convinced he's going to live forever...), so he wants to sell it in 2 pieces and then come live with us. These finances will HAVE to be figured out before that happens. DH is also dealing with getting his dad a will, because at 73, he doesn't have one. 

tigerlily6

My parents are in their mid 60s. Mom works part time, and dad still works full time at a rural family practice clinic and does rounds at the local hospital. Which always amazes and inspires me, because he came down with an aggressive throat cancer the week after I graduated high school, and for many months he was bedridden, couldn't talk, and we did not know if he would make it. I learned a lot of my parents' end-of-life plans and how to get in touch with their attorney at that time when I was 18. 

During that summer my parents were gone at Cleveland Clinic, but I stayed home to take care of my little brothers/ keep the house running, and all the medical bills got sent home where I reviewed them for my mom over the phone. I don't know the exact impact, but I am pretty certain those bills made a decent dent in their savings. 

Even still, I am not sure my dad went back to work just to help recoup losses. My mom was prepared to go back to full time instead for that cause, but he really didn't want to be part time. I think working keeps him busy and active and feeling useful. At some point I certainly hope he will retire and can rest on his laurels a bit, but I can also see him going into his 70s, easily. That's up to him, in my opinion. Some people actually like having a job to keep them going, and as long as it's not hurting them or their business/ practice, then that seems fine by me. 

WinstonsGirl

We've talked a bit, partially for advice for us, and partially about them.  My parents retired about a year ago, though both work part time (my Mom subbed in the classroom beside me today, and my Dad does occasional private practice still).  They're pretty good between RRSP and pension.  They also know we're willing to help, though not any details on specifics.  

FIL is still working, MIL was a SAHM.  They're not as well off as she never worked.  DH has already told them he'll help in any way he can.  We haven't discussed POA or anything like that yet.  My parents are still quite healthy.  DH might want to think about it with his parents sooner though

climbingsingle

I would never speak to my parents or ILs about their retirement plans. That's none of my business. They are adults, and I think it's weird and maybe a little disrespectful. That's just my opinion though. My parents have always been very responsible with their money. My FIL, on the other hand, is a mess. But again, that's none of my business.

I have discussed wills and things of that matter with my parents. I know what things need to be done and what their wishes are should something happen. My husband also knows his parents wishes.

Jells2dot0

Parents? How about spouse! LOL my H will be 54 this summer. We're targeting his retirement at 58. So, 4 years to go!! We talk about our plans ALL of the time. We have everything in place to make it happen and make it happen very realistically. We have had the "end of life" convo, but only because he has a living trust and I am the successor trustee.

My ILS are 80 and have been retired since they were 55. H just started having conversations with them about "end of life", which I promptly recused myself from. It's not my business, but if my opinion is asked, I'll provide it.

My parents are retired already as well, though more recently (my mom is 60; dad is 62). My dad owns a business, so he's not truly retired I guess, but my brother works for him. So, that's my brother's deal. Both of my parents have long standing relationships with financial advisors and far be it for me to get involved. I do know all about my mom's portfolio, just in case.

MyNameIsNot

climbingwife said:

I would never speak to my parents or ILs about their retirement plans. That's none of my business. They are adults, and I think it's weird and maybe a little disrespectful. That's just my opinion though. My parents have always been very responsible with their money. My FIL, on the other hand, is a mess. But again, that's none of my business. I have discussed wills and things of that matter with my parents. I know what things need to be done and what their wishes are should something happen. My husband also knows his parents wishes.

This is how I feel. Neither my parents nor H's has ever needed financial support from us, so I don't see how it would be our place to discuss retirement planning with them. If they want our opinion on their finances, they'll ask for it.

I have talked to my mom some about what age she'd like to retire and what she'd do with herself all day, but that was a conversation that she started. She and my uncle are trying to convince my 85 year old grandmother to retire (she doesn't need the money, she likes to be out and about), so I think mom has been thinking a lot about that. I know she won't still be working at 85, but she says she'll probably retire at 65 and then get a part-time job doing something fun or take up a regular volunteer gig. 

arrippa

climbingwife said:

I would never speak to my parents or ILs about their retirement plans. That's none of my business. They are adults, and I think it's weird and maybe a little disrespectful. That's just my opinion though. My parents have always been very responsible with their money. My FIL, on the other hand, is a mess. But again, that's none of my business. I have discussed wills and things of that matter with my parents. I know what things need to be done and what their wishes are should something happen. My husband also knows his parents wishes.

climbingwife said:

I would never speak to my parents or ILs about their retirement plans. That's none of my business. They are adults, and I think it's weird and maybe a little disrespectful. That's just my opinion though. My parents have always been very responsible with their money. My FIL, on the other hand, is a mess. But again, that's none of my business. I have discussed wills and things of that matter with my parents. I know what things need to be done and what their wishes are should something happen. My husband also knows his parents wishes.

My mom actually started all the conversations with us. At first, I thought it was none of my business, but after the nightmare that my mom went through when her parents died, it was a good idea to have everything out in the open. I would never initiate this conversation but I am glad that both my brother and I know this stuff. 

CMGragain

None of us are in a position to give financial advice to our parents, especially if they don't ask for or want it.
What we can do is to make secure plans for ourselves.
It is terribly sad when you have to go to court to save your parents from themselves.  My late FIL had Alzheimers for years, and he threw away hundreds of thousands on get rich quick schemes, including the Nigerian prince.
We have disclosed everything to our children.  They will have copies of our new will as soon as it is signed.  Above all, NEVER ask your children to promise to not put you in a nursing home.  My late FIL would have been much better off if his wife hadn't felt unable to make that much needed decision.
I strongly recommend this book: Can't We Talk About Something Pleasant? by Roz Chast.  It really hits home.

Oh, by the way, my cancer bills so far have exceeded one million dollars.  Yes, our insurance covers most of it.  Do your parents have medical insurance?  How about long term care insurance.  (DH has it, but I couldn't get it due to my health.  I probably won't need it, anyway.)

Heffalump

This is a tough one.  MIL passed away a few years ago, and FIL is set.  My dad, I have no idea--he's not much of a talker.  (When we called to wish him a Merry Christmas, he started making small talk about the weather with my 6 y.o.  That's what he talks about:  weather, and car maintenance.) 

My mom is in a somewhat similar situation to:

thefanciestbeckler said:

My mom is really open with me, DH and my brother about retirement plans. She's in a pretty odd situation. She was a SAHM my entire life, other than working part time jobs sometimes. My father left her a couple of years ago after 27 years of marriage, leaving her with very very little retirement funds. So now, at 57, she's having to figure out what the future will look like. I'm sure DH and I will help her financially since we will (hopefully) be in a good enough place financially to help.

My mom was a SAHM and my dad left her when I was in college and my brother was in HS.  She went back and got her master's and now works as a director of religious education at her church, so it's something she enjoys and believes in, and is not physically demanding.  She just turned 65 a few months ago and after checking into her benefits now vs. later, she's decided to keep working for a while.  There's no reason she can't, she likes her work, and it's good for her financially.

HOWEVER:  she has made several comments about moving in with us "when the time comes" and we have had to gently but firmly tell her it's not happening.  Which makes me feel like a bitch (I had a looooooong post about it on Wedding Woes once), but as much as I love her, she and I are oil and water.  (We had lunch with her Saturday, and poor DH had to listen to me vent on and off for like half an hour after she left, over her passive-aggressive BS.  Which I don't want my kids around, which they would be if she lived with us.)  She claims she knows and she's "just joking," but she brings it up a LOT.  We keep telling her she needs to make other plans, but I haven't demanded proof that she is.

MCmeow

My parents are divorced. My dad is aware of the fact he needs to retire in 15 years or so, so he's finally paying off his debt and contributing to his retirement which I'm happy about. But my mom has no concept of saving money, at all, and gets defensive when I try to urge her to save. My mom likes to rely on government assistance and spends all her tax return money on materialistic things she doesn't need. Which is frustrating. Nothing wrong with her getting assistance because she doesn't get paid much in her job anyway but I wish she would plan for the future instead of hoping her kids get rich. 

labro

@Jells2dot0 HAH! I think sometimes H and I have too many retirement discussions...if that's even possible.

@CMGragain I appreciate the book rec. The link doesn't work for some reason but I could get the title from the url. I have no idea what the insurance situation is like for my ILs other than they both have it through their jobs currently. I wish my FIL had stayed in the military longer like my dad....at least I know both my parents are set for life through TriCare thanks to my dad's retirement status.

@Heffalump It's definitely one thing to be ok with the thought of a parent moving in with you....and another when the parent just assumes that'll be ok. Hopefully your mom does figure something out...  My mom was a SAHM for many many years too but she went back to work after I left for college and I know my dad has made a ton of plans so that she'll be supported after he's gone (they have a big age gap so it's likely my mom will have many years in the future without my dad there). I'm thankful that my dad has been so open with everything with me. While I don't know exact numbers, I have a good idea of the kind of lifestyle they expect to maintain and that they'll have health care and other support in place without extra assistance from my H and I.

thisismynickname2

On the topic of parents' retirement being none of our business. I mostly agree. Perhaps similar to a PP, my dad used to always cry poor. It worried me so much that my parents finally said, "OK,we're not actually poor. Here are our assets. We just have to be very frugal since we don't know how long we'll live and this needs to last." I do not know if they had the same conversation with my sister and I'm thinking they didn't, because my sister has broached the topic of us chipping in for their health insurance (it was crazy insane expensive before Dad turned 65 thanks to the "affordable" care act) or chipping in for their phone bill. They don't need the help, Dad just likes to complain.
They would never take our money and help anyway. So in that regard, their retirement IS our business so we either don't worry or, if needed, we could be prepared to help if ever needed.
(Sorry for typos on mobile.)

jenna8984

I agree with @kvruns that I find this a very weird topic to broach with parents or in-laws. You say in your original post that "it means that we have 15 plus years to do some work to improve..." and all I can think is why is that a WE?! Their retirement account has nothing to do with you, nor are you obligated to fund it.

I dunno, I guess we were just raised differently. My parents have always taught me the attitude of "take care of yourself because no one else will". My parents have been very successful and at 60, they could retire already if they wanted but they want to bank some more for a few years (since they enjoy taking $20,000 annual vacations).  He did send me copies of their will and stuff like that.

My in-laws are dirt poor. They re-financed their mortgage so many times that 15 years later they actually owe double what they bought it for. He works just above minimum wage, she doesn't even work. They have come to us asking for $200 for heat in winter and asked us for $100 for gas and food. They will never be able to retire, and if his dad dies early his mom will be completely screwed because she's 100% dependent. Unfortunately, as cruel as this may sound, H and I have decided that we will not be helping them when that time comes. They are the ones who took out of their small 401k to buy a motorcycle (for recreation not as a main vehicle), they are the ones who spend hundreds to run a pool and hot tub that don't get used, they are the ones who refuse to take the hit on their house and just get an affordable apartment, she's refuses to work. So we don't believe we need to bail them out, they have made bad decisions for years and that's not our problem.