Invitation Wording - help!

Knottie1441833420

Hi there, we're finalizing our wedding invitations and come into a bit of a snag in wording.
We're hosting the wedding, but also mentioning our parents. So it looks like this:
"Lucille Ball
Daughter of Johanna and Joseph
and
Desi Arnaz
Son of Julia and honouring his father Julian
request the pleasure of your company
at their marriage"

Except it's now sounding a little weird to me. "at their marriage" is weird because 1.) we're hosting it, should it be "our"? and 2.) it sounds like some words are missing like, "at the event of their marriage" or something.
We chose "pleasure of your company" over "honour of your presence" because we used "honouring" on the line above, and I am unable to think of a better way of phrasing that.

Any suggestions will be highly appreciated!

ILoveBeachMusic

Pleasure of your company is used when the ceremony is not in a house of worship. Honor of your presence is used when the ceremony is in a house of worship.

I'm not sure about the rest of the wording because it is not traditional to list parents who are not hosting. 

@CMGragain can probably help you out.
  

CMGragain

Knottie1441833420 said:

Hi there, we're finalizing our wedding invitations and come into a bit of a snag in wording.
We're hosting the wedding, but also mentioning our parents. So it looks like this:
"Lucille Ball
Daughter of Johanna and Joseph
and
Desi Arnaz
Son of Julia and honouring his father Julian
request the pleasure of your company
at their marriage"

Except it's now sounding a little weird to me. "at their marriage" is weird because 1.) we're hosting it, should it be "our"? and 2.) it sounds like some words are missing like, "at the event of their marriage" or something.
We chose "pleasure of your company" over "honour of your presence" because we used "honouring" on the line above, and I am unable to think of a better way of phrasing that.

Any suggestions will be highly appreciated!

This wording does not work.  It is confusing and it violates some etiquette rules.
The ONLY people who's names appear on the invitation are the hosts (the two of you) and the bridal couple.  The bridal couple never directly invites guests to the wedding which is in honor of themselves.  Never!  The invitation is worded in the passive voice if the couple is hosting their own wedding.  Deceased persons do NOT appear on wedding invitations.  Very improper!
The invitation is a simple note from the hosts to the guests, telling them who, what, when and where.  It is not a family tree.  It does not honor ANYONE to have their name appear on the invitation.  It does not include or exclude anyone.  The proper place to honor your relatives is in your wedding program, and at your reception.
Here is the traditional wording for a church wedding that you are hosting yourselves:

The honour of your presence is requested

at the marriage of

Lucille Ball

and

Desi Arnaz

Saturday, the seventeenth of July

two thousand sixteen

at six o'clock

Saint Anybody's Church

City, State

Here is a modern alternative wording you could use that includes the families, but does imply that they are also hosting:

Together with their families

Lucille Ball

and

Desi Arnaz

request the honour of your presence

as they are united in marriage

(etc.)

This would be for a church wedding only.  Otherwise, "pleasure of your company" should be used.  If you are having a Catholic wedding with a mass, the wording is different.

Edit: revised as per the OP's information.

Knottie1441833420

Well, we initially had something like that, but my mother felt a little weird not being included on the invitation, so it was altered to respect her wishes..... just doing what we can with what we have.
We are the ones hosting the wedding.

Knottie1441833420

Sorry to be clear, we - bride and groom - are hosting our own church wedding.
Mother of the bride would like the parents' names to be included on the invitation, I suspect (but don't know) that she may feel a bit like they will be judged for not 'hosting' it themselves.

CMGragain

Tell your mother that it is not proper, and it makes it look like nobody will know who you are without her name, too.  There is no proper way to put a non-hosting person's name on a wedding INVITATION!  No other name should come between the bride's name and the groom's name.

Knottie1441833420

Well, given she's British, telling her her preference is not proper wouldn't go down well.
I would like to respect her wishes in having her name on the invitation, so should we just mimic as if they are hosting?

Knottie1441833420

Also, not that it makes it right, but this was actually one of the template options in the invitation. We didn't make it up ourselves.

Knottie1441833420

One other note: the fonts of our names are much bigger than the fonts naming the parents - as in, they are an addendum.

(And thinking back, we had another older wedding invitation that did the same thing, even with the honouring part. So it doesn't seem too unusual to us which was why we were considering it. Please also be considerate in your reply as it sounds as if you're shouting when using capital letters.)

CMGragain

It isn't proper in the UK either.  @LondonLisa.  
Never take etiquette advice from someone who will profit if you follow it.  Some invitation companies will print anything you want.  Cranes will not.  I use their Blue Book, as well as other etiquette guide books.
It is up to you to decide whether or not to name your parents as hosts.  I don't understand.  I learned my etiquette in the American South, and I would be very, very unhappy if someone put MY name on an invitation where it didn't belong.

I don't think you wanted advice at all - just validation.

Knottie1441833420

I'm really not sure where you are reading that and would appreciate not being accused of something so silly as needing validation when the post was specifically asking how to fix something I didn't like to start with - not sure what kind of validation I could even get for that. I genuinely want suggestions but yours was basically to tell my mother her request isn't acceptable (not a nice topic to broach with anyone), and the way in which you did so I personally found antagonistic (caps, bold, exclamation marks, sarcasm), so I felt the need to explain where I even came up with it (as I felt attacked, one's natural reaction is to explain one's position).

To be clear, no company is benefiting from that recommended template - as I mentioned, it was one of several templates provided by the company we were already using for our invitations i.e. they were not profiting from that wording or any others specifically, they were merely providing templates to use and adjust - but since that was one of the structures they provided, we saw an opportunity to include our parents.

I apologize if you feel in some way attacked but even now I'm surprised I need to clarify my request as I have come here completely ready to consider other ideas.  I just was hoping for one that would respect my mother's wish in some way so as not to shut her down absolutely. Let's respectfully bury the hatchet as I'd like to get back to the issue at hand:

Am I to conclude then that the only way to include the parents' names on any invitation is to imply they are hosts?

I am continually open to other suggestions if you or anyone else has them.

CMGragain

Knottie1441833420 said:

I'm really not sure where you are reading that and would appreciate not being accused of something so silly as needing validation when the post was specifically asking how to fix something I didn't like to start with - not sure what kind of validation I could even get for that. I genuinely want suggestions but yours was basically to tell my mother her request isn't acceptable (not a nice topic to broach with anyone), and the way in which you did so I personally found antagonistic (caps, bold, exclamation marks, sarcasm), so I felt the need to explain where I even came up with it (as I felt attacked, one's natural reaction is to explain one's position).

To be clear, no company is benefiting from that recommended template - as I mentioned, it was one of several templates provided by the company we were already using for our invitations i.e. they were not profiting from that wording or any others specifically, they were merely providing templates to use and adjust - but since that was one of the structures they provided, we saw an opportunity to include our parents.

I apologize if you feel in some way attacked but even now I'm surprised I need to clarify my request as I have come here completely ready to consider other ideas.  I just was hoping for one that would respect my mother's wish in some way so as not to shut her down absolutely. Let's respectfully bury the hatchet as I'd like to get back to the issue at hand:

Am I to conclude then that the only way to include the parents' names on any invitation is to imply they are hosts?
Yes.
I am continually open to other suggestions if you or anyone else has them.

tigerlily6

@Knottie1441833420, listen to @CMGragain. I am pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find a full time wedding planner who could give you more detailed advice on invitation etiquette, among other subjects. 

You say your mother is worried about being judged for not hosting. Not even knowing your mom, as a third-party, I would intuit that her inability to do so could be for a host of acceptable reasons. Economic issues come up, and that is understandable. Or maybe you and your fiance just wanted to do it on your own, and that is commendable of you, and reflects well on your parents that they have a financially responsible and successful daughter and son-in-law. People will understand this, and not judge your mother over her not hosting, if that is her concern. Try to dispel any unfounded guilt she might have, but don't bandaid it.

But if your parents have helped contribute in some way towards the actual wedding day at all (even if it's just a piece of the day, like flowers or something), then I think it would be both fine and proper to put them on according to the guidelines laid out by CMGragain above. 

ETA for grammar.

MairePoppy

I agree with CMGragain. The wording of your invitation is very confusing and it looks peculiar to separate your name and his. 

If your parents and his mother are performing other hosting duties - welcoming guests, helping with the seating plan, rsvps or giving info to family members about the wedding, they may be included on the invitations as hosts. 

MobKaz

Knottie1441833420 said:

Well, given she's British, telling her her preference is not proper wouldn't go down well.
I would like to respect her wishes in having her name on the invitation, so should we just mimic as if they are hosting?

Has your mother never been mistaken or wrong on issues before?

It is admirable that you are trying to respect the wishes of your mother.  It is a shame she is not able to be more respectful of you and your FI.  This wedding is not about her, or any pretense as to who is hosting.  As an adult, it really should not matter what anyone thinks about the hosts.  She should be proud she has an independent and successful daughter. 

Other issues aside, it is not appropriate to list a deceased member of the family on an invitation.

Jen4948

I think that wanting to respect and honor your mother's wishes is a good thing.... provided that what she wishes are correct and right things.

Sadly, how she wants the invitation worded isn't among them.

Your mom seems to have mistaken the invitation for a playbill that "honors" every member of the family and indicates who paid for what, maybe because all the wedding invitations she has so far received have been so worded.

It's a common school of thought. Lots of threads in this forum about invitation wording open with "our parents are paying X%; his parents are paying Y%, how do we word the invitation?" Or "we're hosting but want to honor our parents, so how do we word the invitation?" There are also various other threads here about wanting to list deceased parents on invitations.

But the PPs are correct that 1) invitations aren't the place to "honor" anyone besides their recipients and 2) should not list deceased persons. You can accomplish those goals in a program.

The purpose of a wedding invitation is to establish who is getting married and the logistical details (date, time, location, formality, religious/non-religious). Including any other information can, and has been known to, confuse guests at best. That's why we don't advise it.

As far as telling your mother anything goes, you could say to her, "Mom, we realize you want your name and FI's dad's name in the invitation wording, but guests could find it confusing if they ask you questions as a result, only to find out that you aren't hosting and that his father is deceased. We wouldn't want to confuse anyone by putting misleading information in the invitation, and anyone who would judge you, me, or FI for not listing you or his father is being a jerk. The right way to word our wedding invitation is (the wording above) and that's how we're going to do it. Don't worry, we will make sure that you get properly recognized at the wedding."

mollybarker11

Knottie1441833420 said:

I genuinely want suggestions but yours was basically to tell my mother her request isn't acceptable (not a nice topic to broach with anyone), and the way in which you did so I personally found antagonistic (caps, bold, exclamation marks, sarcasm), so I felt the need to explain where I even came up with it (as I felt attacked, one's natural reaction is to explain one's position).

The tone of theknot forums can be a bit blunt for some newcomers. As someone who's been around a while, I can tell you CMGragain's delivery was only meant to emphasize the importance of correcting these errors, not something to be taken personally.

mollybarker11

Knottie1441833420 said:

I just was hoping for one that would respect my mother's wish in some way so as not to shut her down absolutely. Let's respectfully bury the hatchet as I'd like to get back to the issue at hand:

Am I to conclude then that the only way to include the parents' names on any invitation is to imply they are hosts?

I am continually open to other suggestions if you or anyone else has them.

If your mother's wish is for people to think she's hosting the wedding, and you want to respect her wish, your options are:

1. Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ball
request the honour of your presence
at the wedding of their daughter
Lucille Désirée
and
Dezi Alberto Arnaz
(time, place, etc)

2. the "together with their families" wording shown above.

You haven't mentioned your FI's mother feeling weird so removing that line shouldn't be an issue. I understand wanting to honour his late father but the place to do that is the program. It seems morbid to imply deceased persons are hosting an event.

CMGragain

mollybarker11 said:

Knottie1441833420 said:

I just was hoping for one that would respect my mother's wish in some way so as not to shut her down absolutely. Let's respectfully bury the hatchet as I'd like to get back to the issue at hand:

Am I to conclude then that the only way to include the parents' names on any invitation is to imply they are hosts?

I am continually open to other suggestions if you or anyone else has them.

If your mother's wish is for people to think she's hosting the wedding, and you want to respect her wish, your options are:

1. Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ball
request the honour of your presence
at the wedding of their daughter
Lucille Désirée
and
Dezi Alberto Arnaz
(time, place, etc)

2. the "together with their families" wording shown above.

You haven't mentioned your FI's mother feeling weird so removing that line shouldn't be an issue. I understand wanting to honour his late father but the place to do that is the program. It seems morbid to imply deceased persons are hosting an event.

LOL!  You looked those middle names up, didn't you?  You are correct that the middle names should be on the invitation.

mollybarker11

@CMGragain I did indeed, quick google to stick with the theme
Although I should've spelled the groom's first name properly lol, and no nicknames!

Knottie1441833420

Thanks to everyone for providing some more insights, and yes I apologize for misreading rudeness in @CMGragain 's response if it was not intended.  I later saw the post she copied her words from with the same formatting lol I just hate confrontation! Please be kind and I'll happily absorb all your wisdom.

We will be having our ceremony at a church, then proceeding to a reception elsewhere, and hadn't even considered a program - this isn't usually done at the Orthodox weddings we've been to. I guess that's why we were considering a nice place to honour FI's deceased father in print, but yes I completely see your points about it being inappropriate. We will have to find some other way of doing this - I don't think designing/paying for 200 programs that mention him will be appropriate either since like I said, programs are not commonplace in our large extended family. (I was already thinking of having a tribute table, but thought it would be nice in print as well.)

And yes, my mother has certainly been wrong before, but I just said that telling her so wouldn't go down well Including her on the invitation had nothing to do with finances - we're paying for everything ourselves and don't care about % of help - it was just that in the handful of invitations she'd saved (to have reference for ours), that's how it was done - there was even one including nearly the exact same wording re: a deceased father. We actually all thought it was sweet. But then again, this may be because programs are not common in the Orthodox weddings we've been to, so this is pretty much the only location for tributes to appear in print.

No wonder people say doing the invitations is the worst part of planning a wedding - we are far too laid back for all these rules! LOL

Thanks again for all the help!

spockforprez

Knottie1441833420 said:

Thanks to everyone for providing some more insights, and yes I apologize for misreading rudeness in @CMGragain 's response if it was not intended.  I later saw the post she copied her words from with the same formatting lol I just hate confrontation! Please be kind and I'll happily absorb all your wisdom.

We will be having our ceremony at a church, then proceeding to a reception elsewhere, and hadn't even considered a program - this isn't usually done at the Orthodox weddings we've been to. I guess that's why we were considering a nice place to honour FI's deceased father in print, but yes I completely see your points about it being inappropriate. We will have to find some other way of doing this - I don't think designing/paying for 200 programs that mention him will be appropriate either since like I said, programs are not commonplace in our large extended family. (I was already thinking of having a tribute table, but thought it would be nice in print as well.)

And yes, my mother has certainly been wrong before, but I just said that telling her so wouldn't go down well Including her on the invitation had nothing to do with finances - we're paying for everything ourselves and don't care about % of help - it was just that in the handful of invitations she'd saved (to have reference for ours), that's how it was done - there was even one including nearly the exact same wording re: a deceased father. We actually all thought it was sweet. But then again, this may be because programs are not common in the Orthodox weddings we've been to, so this is pretty much the only location for tributes to appear in print.

No wonder people say doing the invitations is the worst part of planning a wedding - we are far too laid back for all these rules! LOL

Thanks again for all the help!

I used to be an Orthodox Christian and those ceremonies are something else! Not sure if yours will be in Greek or English, but either way, consider having a program simply to explain the various aspects of the ceremony to enhance your guests' experience. For example, many guests are shocked when there are no vows! You can also explain the symbolism of the crowns, which is a really sweet ceremony. 

Programs don't have to be fancy or expensive, you can quickly design it in MS Word and print at your home computer or the local library. Even 100 copies at the library would only be $10-15 depending on if they charge $.10 or $.15 per page.

If you do the program, that would be a lovely place to acknowledge and say thank you to your parents and his mom, as well as placing a small in memoriam for his dad.

Knottie1441833420

Thanks, that is a really good idea - I am Serbian Orthodox and FI is converting, so yes you are right that would be a good place to explain the ceremony to the guests. I was wondering what we would put on the program since there are no hymns or anything, and the reception being at a different location altogether it would've been strange to include that part on the program I think.

Thanks!