Wording Check

[Deleted User]

Okay, starting to design our invites this weekend.  Parents are hosting, not getting married in a church.  Questions are in bold.

Mr. and Mrs. John Doe (or is it John and Jane Doe?)
request the pleasure of your company
to their daughter
Spoonsey Middle
to
Dutchie Middle van Man
two thousand sixteen
the sixth of August
half past three o'clock

Venue name
Venue street
City, Province (should I put Dutch, Zuid-Holland, or English, South Holland.  I could easily omit the province and people will still be able to find it)

Reception to follow

We are doing a one hour cocktail hour before the ceremony.  Do I list the time of the cocktail hour, or the time of the ceremony?  This is a Dutch tradition to have a 30-60 minute welcoming, sometimes with just tea and coffee.  How is the best way to communicate to my side of what's happening?

Off topic: I sent this wording to my mom to see how they felt being listed on the invites like this.  It felt weird going about it without their consent.  Anyways, I finish the email with "have to get back to work, love Spoonsey."  My mom replies saying this looks good, then she replies AGAIN because she didn't pass my dad's dad joke along.  Apparently he thinks I can leave "have to get back to work" off the invite.  

Mini rant: I'm doing separate Dutch wording for the Dutch guest list.  The wedding website articles I browse are giving me "fun, unique, original wording" and cutesy poems how to ask for money.  I. Just. Want. Proper. Dutch. Wording.  No love poems, no tiered guest list wording, just a format for formal/traditional wording.  Also, instead of saying ceremony, some will reference it as the couple will exchange the yes-word at 4:30.  That really drives me bonkers!

ILoveBeachMusic

Yes, it is Mr. and Mrs. John Doe for a formal invitation. Request the pleasure of your company at the marriage of their daughter... Saturday,the sixth of August two thousand sixteen at half past three o'clock. (Assuming it is Saturday, I didn't check). 

I would put the information about the welcome party on an insert or maybe at the bottom of the invitation if it is at the same location. "Cocktail party at two o'clock" kind of thing. I would check wording on Dutch invitations.

Since you are having invitations done in Dutch for the Dutch guests, I would put the province in English - assuming the rest of your guests are English speaking. 

CMGragain

Mr. and Mrs. John Doe
request the pleasure of your company
at the marriage of their daughter
Spoonsey Middle
to
Mr. Dutchie Middle van Man
Saturday, the sixth of August
two thousand sixteen
half after three o'clock

Venue name
Venue street
City, Zuid Holland, Netherlands

Reception to follow

I agree with ILoveBeachMusic about the insert.  Use the Dutch wording for the province.  It makes it easier to use a map, but it really doesn't matter.
I was in Rotterdam last fall.  Where is your wedding?
On your wedding website, you might put a warning to Americans that their normal credit cards will probably not work in Europe unless they get one with a chip.  This was so frustrating!  I'm glad we will soon be catching up with the rest of the world and getting chipped credit cards.

southernbelle0915

Actually, I would ask your parents what they prefer. My mom would have been SUPER pissed if I had used "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith" on the host line of our invitations. So we used "John and Jane Smith".

Mr. and Mrs. John Smith is the most formal way to word them, however, first and foremost, you need to be respectful about preferences.

CMGragain

The alternative to Mr. and Mrs. John Smith is "Ms. Jane Smith and Mr. John Smith" on the same line.

MairePoppy

I agree with @southernbelle0915 . Ask your parents how they prefer to be addressed. I never call myself Mrs. James Poppy. I have a name and prefer Maire and James Poppy. No titles for me, thank you. 

BTW, Spoonsey, I love your father's sense of humor.

Ghostie625

Yeah, my mom didn't want Mr. and Mrs. John Smith because she wanted her name, but she also didn't like the way Ms. Jane Smith and Mr. John Smith sounds, and John and Jane Smith is just too informal for the type of wedding we're having.
I told her I was fine with whatever, but she ended up settling on Mr. and Mrs. John Smith.

southernbelle0915

CMGragain said:

The alternative to Mr. and Mrs. John Smith is "Ms. Jane Smith and Mr. John Smith" on the same line.

Not exclusively. Using "John and Jane Smith" is not incorrect. It's just not as formal.

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys!  This was really helpful.  Good point of asking my mom what her preference is.  I imagine she will come to the conclusion that Mr. and Mrs. John Doe is the most better sounding of the options, though she may not be crazy about it.  She okayed the wording I sent, but I was specifically asking them about being listed on the hosting line, and she may not have given much thought to how her name was put out.

@CMGragain we are getting married outside of Leiden.  How did you find Rotterdam?  I've only been there a handful of times

@MairePoppy yeah, he's going to be dining out on that one for awhile  

CMGragain

Rotterdam is the Baltimore of the Netherlands.  It is a working town and very modern because it was completely destroyed in WWll.  We were there to embark on our cruise last fall.   Leiden is beautiful!

[Deleted User]

CMGragain said:

Rotterdam is the Baltimore of the Netherlands.  It is a working town and very modern because it was completely destroyed in WWll.  We were there to embark on our cruise last fall.   Leiden is beautiful!

Ha!  That is very apt.  My mom and I went wedding dress shopping in Rotterdam, while my dad and FI went to the Delta Works.  We live in The Hague, and Rotterdam definitely lacks a lot of the beautiful Dutch charm, however it is apparently a very trendy place at the moment.

I'm trying to think up wording for the cocktail hour insert.  I can't seem to come up with wording that is both concise and non-awkward.  Does standard invitation wording etiquette apply to these types of inserts?:

“Welkom”

As part of a Dutch wedding custom you are invited to attend a cocktail-hour Welcoming, to begin at half past three on the sixth of August at location.

FI is concerned that his side will be confused and put out that they need to have dinner with us, and he wants to add an RSVP option for his side to say "no" to the dinner, but "yes" to the party.  We're having a consumption bar, so we really don't need to provide a head count for the party portion.  I'm thinking then that in the Dutch invites of adding that as an RSVP option:

Kindly accepts the diner, reception and party 

Kindly accepts the party, to begin at 9:00

Regretfully declines

Does anyone have any experience with an RSVP that allows people to respond to only certain parts of the wedding ceremony or reception?

Jen4948

Spoonsey said:

FI is concerned that his side will be confused and put out that they need to have dinner with us, and he wants to add an RSVP option for his side to say "no" to the dinner, but "yes" to the party.  We're having a consumption bar, so we really don't need to provide a head count for the party portion.  I'm thinking then that in the Dutch invites of adding that as an RSVP option:

Kindly accepts the diner, reception and party 

Kindly accepts the party, to begin at 9:00

Regretfully declines

Does anyone have any experience with an RSVP that allows people to respond to only certain parts of the wedding ceremony or reception?

With regard to the bolded, first, it's not okay to invite anyone only to part of the event - only to the whole thing, and that's what this wording suggests you are doing even though you're not and it's not what he intends.  

Tell your FI that it's not okay to have a separate RSVP option for his side to only partially RSVP.  If they RSVP yes, then plan for them to attend the whole thing even if they don't.  And your FI needs to communicate that to his side.

Also, I would not use "kindly" or "regretfully" in the options. Some people feel that it is presumptuous to indicate for others what frame of mind they should be in when accepting or declining the invitation.  Just use "accepts" and "declines."

[Deleted User]

Jen4948 said:

Spoonsey said:

FI is concerned that his side will be confused and put out that they need to have dinner with us, and he wants to add an RSVP option for his side to say "no" to the dinner, but "yes" to the party.  We're having a consumption bar, so we really don't need to provide a head count for the party portion.  I'm thinking then that in the Dutch invites of adding that as an RSVP option:

Kindly accepts the diner, reception and party 

Kindly accepts the party, to begin at 9:00

Regretfully declines

Does anyone have any experience with an RSVP that allows people to respond to only certain parts of the wedding ceremony or reception?

With regard to the bolded, first, it's not okay to invite anyone only to part of the event - only to the whole thing, and that's what this wording suggests you are doing even though you're not and it's not what he intends.  

Tell your FI that it's not okay to have a separate RSVP option for his side to only partially RSVP.  If they RSVP yes, then plan for them to attend the whole thing even if they don't.  And your FI needs to communicate that to his side.

Also, I would not use "kindly" or "regretfully" in the options. Some people feel that it is presumptuous to indicate for others what frame of mind they should be in when accepting or declining the invitation.  Just use "accepts" and "declines."

Yes.  What if I secretly hate you and have to "regretfully accept" because my boyfriend wants to attend.  Don't assume how I feel.

[Deleted User]

Okay, will take out the kindly/regretfully.  Easy enough

[Deleted User]

Jen4948 said:

Spoonsey said:

FI is concerned that his side will be confused and put out that they need to have dinner with us, and he wants to add an RSVP option for his side to say "no" to the dinner, but "yes" to the party.  We're having a consumption bar, so we really don't need to provide a head count for the party portion.  I'm thinking then that in the Dutch invites of adding that as an RSVP option:

Kindly accepts the diner, reception and party 

Kindly accepts the party, to begin at 9:00

Regretfully declines

Does anyone have any experience with an RSVP that allows people to respond to only certain parts of the wedding ceremony or reception?

With regard to the bolded, first, it's not okay to invite anyone only to part of the event - only to the whole thing, and that's what this wording suggests you are doing even though you're not and it's not what he intends.  

Tell your FI that it's not okay to have a separate RSVP option for his side to only partially RSVP.  If they RSVP yes, then plan for them to attend the whole thing even if they don't.  And your FI needs to communicate that to his side.

Also, I would not use "kindly" or "regretfully" in the options. Some people feel that it is presumptuous to indicate for others what frame of mind they should be in when accepting or declining the invitation.  Just use "accepts" and "declines."

Just to clear up what you're suggesting is that FI communicates to his side that even though they RSVP yes and choose an entree selection, attendance to the dinner is not mandatory.  We will of course welcome them to any and all parts should they choose to RSVP yes.

I will talk to FI about this tonight.  To give some context, we're getting married in Holland, and I've been running into some obstacles since the expectation is that we have a double or triple tiered guest list.  Since we're not doing that, FI is becoming more and more concerned that we're imposing on his colleagues (people who would normally just be invited to the party-evening).  He wants some way to effectively communicate that they're invited and very welcome to come, but they don't *have* to come to the entire thing if they would rather not.  I'm sort of treating his colleagues with extra care because I want to respect their culture and not impact any of his work relationships, so I'm also giving him a little more control over how we treat his colleagues.  From an etiquette standpoint, I've shot *most* of FI's ideas down pretty hard.

Edited for clarity

Jen4948

He can tell them by word of mouth-if they bring it up to him.

But it cannot be put in the invitation wording.

That's because whether or not to attend any part of the event is always optional on a guest's part-both in the US and in Holland.  You can't require anyone to attend any part of your wedding, no matter where you are from.

But piecemeal invitations are not appropriate.  Everyone invited needs to be invited to the whole thing-and their attendance so planned for.  It's up to them to decide for themselves whether they do or don't attend any part.  

MairePoppy

Jen4948 - what about an insert about the Welkom hour? The wording that Spoonsey suggested is fine, IMO. There's no rsvp needed for that portion so I would assume it's optional. I'd worry that I might miss a few guests if I relied on word of mouth to get the info out. Or, if there's a wedding website - the info could be posted there.

Jen4948

MairePoppy said:

Jen4948 - what about an insert about the Welkom hour? The wording that Spoonsey suggested is fine, IMO. There's no rsvp needed for that portion so I would assume it's optional. I'd worry that I might miss a few guests if I relied on word of mouth to get the info out. Or, if there's a wedding website - the info could be posted there.

Those would be fine.  But the invitation itself shouldn't suggest to anyone that they are only invited to part of the event-nor should they be allowed to RSVP for only part of the event.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the input.  I've been telling him that people don't have to attend just because they're invited.... over and over and over

I will talk to him about just doing it through word of mouth.  It would be a shame to have people RSVP and then not show up and have that dinner go to waste, but I doubt that will be a great concern of mine the day of.

Now, for the RSVP wording:

M____________________
Accepts __ Rejects __

Entree 1 __ Entree 2 __

Allergies ___________

Do I put information on the children's menu anywhere?

Also, I double checked with my mom and she wants to go with Mr. John Doe and Mrs. Jane Doe, so thanks to the PPs who suggested that  

poodledoodleooo

I'd use "decline" instead of "rejects" Rejects  is so harsh! ANd I'd add a line for a child's meal, because some children might prefer the adult meal and it's best to account for that.