Pre-wedding Parties

Hostile FSIL "needs" a shower invitation

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Re: Hostile FSIL "needs" a shower invitation

  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    Jen4948 said:
    CMGragain said:
    I have a suggestion for the OP.  Talk to FMIL in private and express your "concerns" about FSIL's behavior.  Stay calm and quiet, and listen to what FMIL has to say.  You will learn a lot about this family's dynamics.
    But if FMIL keeps defending FSIL and insisting that she be invited to the shower with no acknowledgement of the pain she causes you, I think that it needs to be made clear to her that no invitation to FSIL will be forthcoming and the subject is closed, regardless of "repercussions."
    Great way to start of your relationship with your FMIL, especially without FI's support.

    Seriously, if you want to take on your FILs without the support of your FI, just do yourself a favor and call off the wedding now.

    Otherwise, find a way to coexist with these women that your FI is going to expect you to be around at least on holidays. Unless of course he decides to grow a pair and stand up for you.
    Coexisting with these two women without the FI's support is already what the OP is doing.  

    But sorrynotsorry, it's not up to the FMIL to decide whether or not someone else gets invited to a shower she herself isn't hosting, especially when that someone else has been repeatedly hostile to the OP.  She does not get to insist on one member of her family's constantly having to put up with negative treating from another.  If she does, then there will be consequences for her, which is that SHE was the one who got her relationship with her FDIL off to a bad start.

    So sorrynotsorry, but I stand by my position that if someone treats you badly, they do not get to have it both ways by continuing to do so while you are expected to "find some way to coexist with them" on pain of "repercussions." The only way to "coexist" with such people is to leave them alone and in turn be left alone.  And any "repercussions" probably consist of not being part of the extended family, and with this bunch?  That is probably the healthiest, happiest solution for the OP, considering how they're treating her now.

    And if this FI wants everyone to be together, he does not get to have it both ways by saying "you do it, I won't talk about it" and not growing a pair.  He will have to accept the OP's decision not to invite the SIL or stand up for her.  Otherwise, he shouldn't marry her.
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    People don't live in a bubble. There will be repercussions. FMIL has already sided with her DIL. There will only be consequences to the FMIL if her son decides to stand up for his FI, which he hasn't so far. These women don't appear to care what the OP thinks, so her repercussions mean nothing to them. 

    Jen, You don't have a mother in law, so I don't expect you to understand this dynamic fully - the toll it takes on the child and the SO. My MIL doesn't like me, she tried to turn DH, then FI against me. He stood up for me. I still try to be nice to her and am civil to his sister. He chose me over them, so it works and they are forced to be civil or not see him.

    I'm not saying it's ok that OP is being treated like this, but I am saying without FI's support she is more like to come of looking like the bad guy by not inviting the FSIL. 

    I agree with Scribe, this sounds like a bunch of mean girls, high school drama. Apparently OP's FI feels the same since he said they need to work it out on their own. Chances are FMIL feels the same way and just wants the family to get along. She probably thinks OP is acting like a brat by excluding her DIL.

    Not everyone is ok with not having a relationship with their MIL, or putting their spouse in the middle. The situation causes my husband great strife. Families require give and take, or a FI willing to stand up to his families antics.

    I'd really like to know what the FSIL really said or did. When not given concrete examples, I tend to assume it is trivial drama and not worth the repercussions.
    Photokitty, don't condescend to me about what I do or don't understand about in-law relationships.  One doesn't have to be married to understand them any more than one had to be a parent to understand children.

    I think that as much of this "high school drama" is the result of the FSIL's , the FI's, and the FMIL's behavior as the OP's.  Have any of them considered any "repercussions" in future relationships with her?  Expecting it all to be the OP's responsibility is like telling two kids, one of whom has been bullying the other, to "shake hands and make up." It basically gives permission for the mistreatment of the OP to continue.  The OP says that she has repeatedly tried to get along with this FSIL, only to keep being treated badly.  

    Yeah, it might be nice to know what that consists of, and if this were just one instance of it, I'd agree with you that this is "high school drama." But not if it keeps happening whenever she has to be in contact with the FSIL.

    The FSIL is responsible for her alienating the OP to the point that the OP doesn't want to invite her to an intimate event.  That's the consequences of her actions. She is presumably a compos mentis adult. All this "repercussions" bullshit works both ways. Shouldn't they also be trying to figure out how to live with the OP without being negative?  Until they do, they have no right to demand that she do all the work of having relationships with them.
    wellnowbleve0821CraftyG
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
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    Jen4948 said:
    People don't live in a bubble. There will be repercussions. FMIL has already sided with her DIL. There will only be consequences to the FMIL if her son decides to stand up for his FI, which he hasn't so far. These women don't appear to care what the OP thinks, so her repercussions mean nothing to them. 

    Jen, You don't have a mother in law, so I don't expect you to understand this dynamic fully - the toll it takes on the child and the SO. My MIL doesn't like me, she tried to turn DH, then FI against me. He stood up for me. I still try to be nice to her and am civil to his sister. He chose me over them, so it works and they are forced to be civil or not see him.

    I'm not saying it's ok that OP is being treated like this, but I am saying without FI's support she is more like to come of looking like the bad guy by not inviting the FSIL. 

    I agree with Scribe, this sounds like a bunch of mean girls, high school drama. Apparently OP's FI feels the same since he said they need to work it out on their own. Chances are FMIL feels the same way and just wants the family to get along. She probably thinks OP is acting like a brat by excluding her DIL.

    Not everyone is ok with not having a relationship with their MIL, or putting their spouse in the middle. The situation causes my husband great strife. Families require give and take, or a FI willing to stand up to his families antics.

    I'd really like to know what the FSIL really said or did. When not given concrete examples, I tend to assume it is trivial drama and not worth the repercussions.
    Photokitty, don't condescend to me about what I do or don't cunderstand about in-law relationships.  One doesn't have to be married to understand them any more than one had to be a parent to understand children.

    I think that as much of this "high school drama" is the result of FSIL's , the FI's, and the FMIL's behavior as the OP's.  Have any of them considered any "repercussions" in future relationships with her?  Expecting it all to be the OP's responsibility is like telling two kids, one of whom has been bullying the other, to "shake hands and make up." It basically gives permission for the mistreatment of the OP to continue.  The OP says that she has repeatedly tried to get along with this FSIL only to keep being treated badly.  

    Yeah, it might be nice to know what that consists of, and if this were just one instance of it, I'd agree with you that this is "high school drama." But not if it keeps happening whenever she has to be in contact with the FSIL.

    The FSIL is responsible for her alienating the OP to the point that the OP doesn't want to invite her to an intimate event.  That's the consequences of her actions. She is presumably a compos mentis adult. All this "repercussions" bullshit works both ways.
    You have no idea what the FSIL did or didn't do. OP has refused to come back and provide any examples whatsoever. As far as we know, the FSIL refuses to fawn all over OP's wedding. Assuming that FSIL is a bully is quite a stretch. 

    It's possible that the FSIL is a total terror and the FI and FMIL and just assholes. But it's also possible that OP is being dramatic and FI and FMIL are responding logically. You can't just assume one or the other and proclaim that your assumption is the truth. 
    charlotte989875MairePoppyOliveOilsMombohobrideCA
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    Jen4948 said:
    People don't live in a bubble. There will be repercussions. FMIL has already sided with her DIL. There will only be consequences to the FMIL if her son decides to stand up for his FI, which he hasn't so far. These women don't appear to care what the OP thinks, so her repercussions mean nothing to them. 

    Jen, You don't have a mother in law, so I don't expect you to understand this dynamic fully - the toll it takes on the child and the SO. My MIL doesn't like me, she tried to turn DH, then FI against me. He stood up for me. I still try to be nice to her and am civil to his sister. He chose me over them, so it works and they are forced to be civil or not see him.

    I'm not saying it's ok that OP is being treated like this, but I am saying without FI's support she is more like to come of looking like the bad guy by not inviting the FSIL. 

    I agree with Scribe, this sounds like a bunch of mean girls, high school drama. Apparently OP's FI feels the same since he said they need to work it out on their own. Chances are FMIL feels the same way and just wants the family to get along. She probably thinks OP is acting like a brat by excluding her DIL.

    Not everyone is ok with not having a relationship with their MIL, or putting their spouse in the middle. The situation causes my husband great strife. Families require give and take, or a FI willing to stand up to his families antics.

    I'd really like to know what the FSIL really said or did. When not given concrete examples, I tend to assume it is trivial drama and not worth the repercussions.
    Photokitty, don't condescend to me about what I do or don't cunderstand about in-law relationships.  One doesn't have to be married to understand them any more than one had to be a parent to understand children.

    I think that as much of this "high school drama" is the result of FSIL's , the FI's, and the FMIL's behavior as the OP's.  Have any of them considered any "repercussions" in future relationships with her?  Expecting it all to be the OP's responsibility is like telling two kids, one of whom has been bullying the other, to "shake hands and make up." It basically gives permission for the mistreatment of the OP to continue.  The OP says that she has repeatedly tried to get along with this FSIL only to keep being treated badly.  

    Yeah, it might be nice to know what that consists of, and if this were just one instance of it, I'd agree with you that this is "high school drama." But not if it keeps happening whenever she has to be in contact with the FSIL.

    The FSIL is responsible for her alienating the OP to the point that the OP doesn't want to invite her to an intimate event.  That's the consequences of her actions. She is presumably a compos mentis adult. All this "repercussions" bullshit works both ways.
    You have no idea what the FSIL did or didn't do. OP has refused to come back and provide any examples whatsoever. As far as we know, the FSIL refuses to fawn all over OP's wedding. Assuming that FSIL is a bully is quite a stretch. 

    It's possible that the FSIL is a total terror and the FI and FMIL and just assholes. But it's also possible that OP is being dramatic and FI and FMIL are responding logically. You can't just assume one or the other and proclaim that your assumption is the truth. 
    You know, if we keep insisting whenever someone posts that we know only one side of the story, and we're never going to know the other side, we're never going to be able to give useful advice.

    Ultimately, it's not up to the OP or the FMIL whether or not the FSIL is invited - it's up to whoever is hosting the shower.  If they don't want to invite the FSIL, then the subject of a shower invitation is completely moot.

    But as far as this relationship goes, both the OP and the FSIL have to make it work.  The OP can't be expected to carry the whole load.  Assuming that the OP's story is totally correct, then I think it makes sense for her to not have the hostesses issue a shower invitation to her FSIL even if her FMIL wants it, and even if there are "repercussions," because the FSIL will be responsible for those "repercussions" through her own ugly behavior to the OP. And the FMIL and FI will be responsible for any "repercussions" they cause to the OP.  She's tried, they threw it back in her face.  At which point, she doesn't need to be a doormat anymore.

    Assuming that the OP's story is not correct and that she's responsible, in full or in part, for any of the ugliness between herself and the FSIL, then yes, that means she has to find some way to get along with the FSIL.  That said, I would do that before extending the FSIL a shower invitation, and not use the shower itself to establish a better relationship with her FSIL.  The better relationship should exist before any shower invitation goes to the FSIL.  A party invitation doesn't constitute an apology, and if the FSIL was invited and things are still strained between them, the FSIL may well decline the invitation or otherwise make it an unpleasant occasion for all.  Nobody wants that!
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    banana468 said:
    I'm not going to continue the quote box but the point a lot of people are making is that repercussions don't need to be logical.

    The OP's FMIL has already asked that an invitation be extended to the FSIL.   By not doing so, that's going against FMIL's wishes.   We don't have any understanding of how FMIL acts when people go against her but as the MOG in this scenario, she's holding a rather high position here.   Going against her is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.   That isn't to say that there's some kind of mafia-like response, but you have to expect that there's going to be a reaction to telling someone NO.  To think that FMIL should be the one 'feeling the repercussions' is naive at best.

    The wedding is just the start of the OP's life with this family.   Rather than focus on the stupid shower, I hope she starts focusing on the bigger picture.   The wedding doesn't END all of this.   It's just the start.   OP needs to figure out what's going on and if there's a way to make things better for the sake of her family situation.

    One of the best things that we humans can do is to trying to change others.   You're fighting a losing battle to expect someone's personality to suddenly shift. 
    The FMIL can't be allowed to call all the shots, no matter how high her position in the family is.  

    Yes, it's going against her wishes if her other DIL doesn't get an invitation, but if that other DIL doesn't deserve an invitation because she's behaved badly towards the OP, then the FMIL will have to realize that unfortunately, actions have consequences, and the consequences of her DIL behaving badly towards her future DIL means that the other DIL won't be invited to the shower - or whatever else is hosted by or for the OP.  And that's the other DIL's problem.

    Sure, there might be some repercussions from that.  But if there's no way for the OP to make things better (at least by herself), then everyone has to accept OP's decision not to include the other DIL and/or to exclude herself from the family gatherings.  

    Because if "repercussions" equals "lie down like a doormat and accept abusive treatment just because that's how this family (dys)functions," then she needs to get the hell out of there.  Because nobody should have to put up with abuse by way of "repercussions."
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    banana468 said:
    Yes Jen.   I'm clearly saying that the OP should volunteer to be a door mat and abused.

    Between this and your "prenup of silence" in the other thread I have to wonder what's going on with you lately. 
    Nothing is "going on with me lately."  I just don't agree with you that anyone has to put up with abusive treatment.

    Nor, I might add, do various other posters in this thread, so stop assuming that "something is going on with me lately" just because we don't agree FFS.
    particuliersylphe
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    banana468 said:
    Jen4948 said:
    banana468 said:
    Yes Jen.   I'm clearly saying that the OP should volunteer to be a door mat and abused.

    Between this and your "prenup of silence" in the other thread I have to wonder what's going on with you lately. 
    Nothing is "going on with me lately."  I just don't agree with you that anyone has to put up with abusive treatment.

    Nor, I might add, do various other posters in this thread, so stop assuming that "something is going on with me lately" just because we don't agree FFS.
    Where has the OP even mentioned ABUSE?  The way she has written things out the SIL sounds like no picnic, but that hardly means that dealing with a problem person is abusive.

    The OP can put conditions on the invitation, "MIL, we will invite her but she will be asked to leave if there are any issues at the shower.   "   It's a sign that the olive branch is extended to FMIL while saying that the hostesses of the event and NOT the OP will make sure that the even moves smoothly.

    Sometimes you can read so far into things that your suggestions seem to advise the OP to be hostile.   Maybe you don't see things that way but life and relationships just aren't black and white.   

    No one wants to ever advise a person to be a doormat.  They want to advise others to work on the art of diplomacy.    Like it or not, this is just the start of the OP's "international relations".    
    Banana, I suggested exactly those conditions earlier in the thread.  But the OP indicates that she has tried to be "diplomatic" with her FSIL to no avail.  She came to the conclusion that keeping trying and getting nowhere is just not worth it anymore. So enough is enough, and that was her frame of mind in not inviting this FSIL to the shower. 

    "International relations" between her and this FSIL have already failed - because the FSIL is not responding in any encouraging way regardless of what effort the OP makes.  To keep threatening the OP with "repercussions" isn't helpful.




  • AddieCakeAddieCake Beyond the Wall member
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    Jen, I'm on your side in this, but I really don't think PhotoKitty was being condescending in her comment about you not having a MIL. 
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    AddieCake said:
    Jen, I'm on your side in this, but I really don't think PhotoKitty was being condescending in her comment about you not having a MIL. 
    She may not have intended her comment that way, but that's how it came across.  You don't have to be married to understand IL relationships, but to suggest that a single person "can't" understand them does come off that way.
  • Jen4948 said:
    banana468 said:
    Jen4948 said:
    banana468 said:
    Yes Jen.   I'm clearly saying that the OP should volunteer to be a door mat and abused.

    Between this and your "prenup of silence" in the other thread I have to wonder what's going on with you lately. 
    Nothing is "going on with me lately."  I just don't agree with you that anyone has to put up with abusive treatment.

    Nor, I might add, do various other posters in this thread, so stop assuming that "something is going on with me lately" just because we don't agree FFS.
    Where has the OP even mentioned ABUSE?  The way she has written things out the SIL sounds like no picnic, but that hardly means that dealing with a problem person is abusive.

    The OP can put conditions on the invitation, "MIL, we will invite her but she will be asked to leave if there are any issues at the shower.   "   It's a sign that the olive branch is extended to FMIL while saying that the hostesses of the event and NOT the OP will make sure that the even moves smoothly.

    Sometimes you can read so far into things that your suggestions seem to advise the OP to be hostile.   Maybe you don't see things that way but life and relationships just aren't black and white.   

    No one wants to ever advise a person to be a doormat.  They want to advise others to work on the art of diplomacy.    Like it or not, this is just the start of the OP's "international relations".    
    Banana, I suggested exactly those conditions earlier in the thread.  But the OP indicates that she has tried to be "diplomatic" with her FSIL to no avail.  She came to the conclusion that keeping trying and getting nowhere is just not worth it anymore. So enough is enough, and that was her frame of mind in not inviting this FSIL to the shower. 

    "International relations" between her and this FSIL have already failed - because the FSIL is not responding in any encouraging way regardless of what effort the OP makes.  To keep threatening the OP with "repercussions" isn't helpful.




    I have re read the thread and cannot find that you suggested that.   If I read too quickly and missed something please point that out to me.  Your stance the entire time appears to be that she stands up by saying no. 

    The OP posted and ran.  I have not seen a response from her at all in this.   We only know that she's painted this as a damned if she does and damned if she doesn't scenario.

    In no way do I think she simply be a doormat.   I DO think that she can say, "FMIL, I've advised the shower hostesses that if there's room, FSIL should be invited.   Please understand though that given our history, they will ask her to leave if anything happens to distract from the happiness of the occasion."

    We had a potentially volatile person at our wedding.   She was the GF of a GM but someone who had made my life difficult, made mutual friends lives difficult and she was the ex GF of another guest.   I asked some friends to be on the watch for her.   I wasn't going to tell the GM that he couldn't bring her but I wasn't going to turn my dance floor into a WWE ring either.   

    In the end, it all worked out because she knew that it would make her look extra foolish if she made a scene at the wedding.

    OP here doesn't need to plan a vacation with the FSIL but she has to decide if saying no is worth it in the big picture.   Because the FSIL and FMIL can bring up the lack of invitation at a lot of events simply to make the OP look bad.

    But if FSIL throws a fit and is escorted out (again, major speculation here), people can say to HER, "It's a shame you missed that cake at the shower.   It was DEEEEEEELICIOUS." 
    SP29OliveOilsMom
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    edited February 2016
    I posted this earlier, Banana.  

    Because I do think that letting the FMIL know that there is a reason OP at the moment doesn't want to invite the FSIL to the shower, and even asking for her help on that, would be fair.  And I would even agree that it would be fair to make clear to both the FMIL and the FSIL that the FSIL, if invited, will be asked to leave if she crosses the line.  

    But if "crossing the line" has been going on for some time, then it seems to me that it won't make any difference to the relationship with the FSIL if she's not invited - it won't get any worse or better.  And if that's the case, then it seems to me that inviting a hostile person just to make the FMIL happy is counterproductive - and that's what the FMIL needs to know.  She can't force her other DIL to get along with the OP, and if the OP has tried everything else to have a civil relationship with the FSIL to no avail, then the FMIL needs to understand that trying to insert herself into their (lack of a) relationship isn't helping anything for the OP.

    And ultimately, it's not up to the OP who is or isn't invited - just as it's not up to the FMIL.  Maybe the hosts have their own reasons for not inviting the FSIL.  If it's all that important to the FMIL that the FSIL be invited to a shower for the OP, she can host that shower herself instead of expecting other people to do it.

    Jen4948 said:
    CMGragain said:
    I have a suggestion for the OP.  Talk to FMIL in private and express your "concerns" about FSIL's behavior.  Stay calm and quiet, and listen to what FMIL has to say.  You will learn a lot about this family's dynamics.
    But if FMIL keeps defending FSIL and insisting that she be invited to the shower with no acknowledgement of the pain she causes you, I think that it needs to be made clear to her that no invitation to FSIL will be forthcoming and the subject is closed, regardless of "repercussions."

  • Jen4948 said:
    I posted it here, Banana:

    Jen4948 said:
    CMGragain said:
    I have a suggestion for the OP.  Talk to FMIL in private and express your "concerns" about FSIL's behavior.  Stay calm and quiet, and listen to what FMIL has to say.  You will learn a lot about this family's dynamics.
    But if FMIL keeps defending FSIL and insisting that she be invited to the shower with no acknowledgement of the pain she causes you, I think that it needs to be made clear to her that no invitation to FSIL will be forthcoming and the subject is closed, regardless of "repercussions."

    That isn't the same thing.   I read it as a statement that there would be no invitation whatsoever and not that the invitation and her attendance would be contingent upon no scene causing. 
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
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    banana468 said:
    Jen4948 said:
    I posted it here, Banana:

    Jen4948 said:
    CMGragain said:
    I have a suggestion for the OP.  Talk to FMIL in private and express your "concerns" about FSIL's behavior.  Stay calm and quiet, and listen to what FMIL has to say.  You will learn a lot about this family's dynamics.
    But if FMIL keeps defending FSIL and insisting that she be invited to the shower with no acknowledgement of the pain she causes you, I think that it needs to be made clear to her that no invitation to FSIL will be forthcoming and the subject is closed, regardless of "repercussions."

    That isn't the same thing.   I read it as a statement that there would be no invitation whatsoever and not that the invitation and her attendance would be contingent upon no scene causing. 
    I revised this post after you posted this.  As I noted, if it means so much to the FMIL that the FSIL be invited to a shower for the OP, she can host that shower herself rather than expecting others to do it.
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
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    Jen4948 said:
    Jen4948 said:
    People don't live in a bubble. There will be repercussions. FMIL has already sided with her DIL. There will only be consequences to the FMIL if her son decides to stand up for his FI, which he hasn't so far. These women don't appear to care what the OP thinks, so her repercussions mean nothing to them. 

    Jen, You don't have a mother in law, so I don't expect you to understand this dynamic fully - the toll it takes on the child and the SO. My MIL doesn't like me, she tried to turn DH, then FI against me. He stood up for me. I still try to be nice to her and am civil to his sister. He chose me over them, so it works and they are forced to be civil or not see him.

    I'm not saying it's ok that OP is being treated like this, but I am saying without FI's support she is more like to come of looking like the bad guy by not inviting the FSIL. 

    I agree with Scribe, this sounds like a bunch of mean girls, high school drama. Apparently OP's FI feels the same since he said they need to work it out on their own. Chances are FMIL feels the same way and just wants the family to get along. She probably thinks OP is acting like a brat by excluding her DIL.

    Not everyone is ok with not having a relationship with their MIL, or putting their spouse in the middle. The situation causes my husband great strife. Families require give and take, or a FI willing to stand up to his families antics.

    I'd really like to know what the FSIL really said or did. When not given concrete examples, I tend to assume it is trivial drama and not worth the repercussions.
    Photokitty, don't condescend to me about what I do or don't cunderstand about in-law relationships.  One doesn't have to be married to understand them any more than one had to be a parent to understand children.

    I think that as much of this "high school drama" is the result of FSIL's , the FI's, and the FMIL's behavior as the OP's.  Have any of them considered any "repercussions" in future relationships with her?  Expecting it all to be the OP's responsibility is like telling two kids, one of whom has been bullying the other, to "shake hands and make up." It basically gives permission for the mistreatment of the OP to continue.  The OP says that she has repeatedly tried to get along with this FSIL only to keep being treated badly.  

    Yeah, it might be nice to know what that consists of, and if this were just one instance of it, I'd agree with you that this is "high school drama." But not if it keeps happening whenever she has to be in contact with the FSIL.

    The FSIL is responsible for her alienating the OP to the point that the OP doesn't want to invite her to an intimate event.  That's the consequences of her actions. She is presumably a compos mentis adult. All this "repercussions" bullshit works both ways.
    You have no idea what the FSIL did or didn't do. OP has refused to come back and provide any examples whatsoever. As far as we know, the FSIL refuses to fawn all over OP's wedding. Assuming that FSIL is a bully is quite a stretch. 

    It's possible that the FSIL is a total terror and the FI and FMIL and just assholes. But it's also possible that OP is being dramatic and FI and FMIL are responding logically. You can't just assume one or the other and proclaim that your assumption is the truth. 
    You know, if we keep insisting whenever someone posts that we know only one side of the story, and we're never going to know the other side, we're never going to be able to give useful advice.

    Ultimately, it's not up to the OP or the FMIL whether or not the FSIL is invited - it's up to whoever is hosting the shower.  If they don't want to invite the FSIL, then the subject of a shower invitation is completely moot.

    But as far as this relationship goes, both the OP and the FSIL have to make it work.  The OP can't be expected to carry the whole load.  Assuming that the OP's story is totally correct, then I think it makes sense for her to not have the hostesses issue a shower invitation to her FSIL even if her FMIL wants it, and even if there are "repercussions," because the FSIL will be responsible for those "repercussions" through her own ugly behavior to the OP. And the FMIL and FI will be responsible for any "repercussions" they cause to the OP.  She's tried, they threw it back in her face.  At which point, she doesn't need to be a doormat anymore.

    Assuming that the OP's story is not correct and that she's responsible, in full or in part, for any of the ugliness between herself and the FSIL, then yes, that means she has to find some way to get along with the FSIL.  That said, I would do that before extending the FSIL a shower invitation, and not use the shower itself to establish a better relationship with her FSIL.  The better relationship should exist before any shower invitation goes to the FSIL.  A party invitation doesn't constitute an apology, and if the FSIL was invited and things are still strained between them, the FSIL may well decline the invitation or otherwise make it an unpleasant occasion for all.  Nobody wants that!
    And this is what some of us are saying is a bad idea. If OP is going to stand up to the FMIL and risk a family divide, she needs to do it with her FI's backing. No one will care that it's ultimately FSIL's fault, it will turn out badly for OP. 

    If the FI is not supporting her in this, either he's an asshole or she's over-reacting. 
    InLoveInQueenscharlotte989875
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    Jen4948 said:
    Jen4948 said:
    People don't live in a bubble. There will be repercussions. FMIL has already sided with her DIL. There will only be consequences to the FMIL if her son decides to stand up for his FI, which he hasn't so far. These women don't appear to care what the OP thinks, so her repercussions mean nothing to them. 

    Jen, You don't have a mother in law, so I don't expect you to understand this dynamic fully - the toll it takes on the child and the SO. My MIL doesn't like me, she tried to turn DH, then FI against me. He stood up for me. I still try to be nice to her and am civil to his sister. He chose me over them, so it works and they are forced to be civil or not see him.

    I'm not saying it's ok that OP is being treated like this, but I am saying without FI's support she is more like to come of looking like the bad guy by not inviting the FSIL. 

    I agree with Scribe, this sounds like a bunch of mean girls, high school drama. Apparently OP's FI feels the same since he said they need to work it out on their own. Chances are FMIL feels the same way and just wants the family to get along. She probably thinks OP is acting like a brat by excluding her DIL.

    Not everyone is ok with not having a relationship with their MIL, or putting their spouse in the middle. The situation causes my husband great strife. Families require give and take, or a FI willing to stand up to his families antics.

    I'd really like to know what the FSIL really said or did. When not given concrete examples, I tend to assume it is trivial drama and not worth the repercussions.
    Photokitty, don't condescend to me about what I do or don't cunderstand about in-law relationships.  One doesn't have to be married to understand them any more than one had to be a parent to understand children.

    I think that as much of this "high school drama" is the result of FSIL's , the FI's, and the FMIL's behavior as the OP's.  Have any of them considered any "repercussions" in future relationships with her?  Expecting it all to be the OP's responsibility is like telling two kids, one of whom has been bullying the other, to "shake hands and make up." It basically gives permission for the mistreatment of the OP to continue.  The OP says that she has repeatedly tried to get along with this FSIL only to keep being treated badly.  

    Yeah, it might be nice to know what that consists of, and if this were just one instance of it, I'd agree with you that this is "high school drama." But not if it keeps happening whenever she has to be in contact with the FSIL.

    The FSIL is responsible for her alienating the OP to the point that the OP doesn't want to invite her to an intimate event.  That's the consequences of her actions. She is presumably a compos mentis adult. All this "repercussions" bullshit works both ways.
    You have no idea what the FSIL did or didn't do. OP has refused to come back and provide any examples whatsoever. As far as we know, the FSIL refuses to fawn all over OP's wedding. Assuming that FSIL is a bully is quite a stretch. 

    It's possible that the FSIL is a total terror and the FI and FMIL and just assholes. But it's also possible that OP is being dramatic and FI and FMIL are responding logically. You can't just assume one or the other and proclaim that your assumption is the truth. 
    You know, if we keep insisting whenever someone posts that we know only one side of the story, and we're never going to know the other side, we're never going to be able to give useful advice.

    Ultimately, it's not up to the OP or the FMIL whether or not the FSIL is invited - it's up to whoever is hosting the shower.  If they don't want to invite the FSIL, then the subject of a shower invitation is completely moot.

    But as far as this relationship goes, both the OP and the FSIL have to make it work.  The OP can't be expected to carry the whole load.  Assuming that the OP's story is totally correct, then I think it makes sense for her to not have the hostesses issue a shower invitation to her FSIL even if her FMIL wants it, and even if there are "repercussions," because the FSIL will be responsible for those "repercussions" through her own ugly behavior to the OP. And the FMIL and FI will be responsible for any "repercussions" they cause to the OP.  She's tried, they threw it back in her face.  At which point, she doesn't need to be a doormat anymore.

    Assuming that the OP's story is not correct and that she's responsible, in full or in part, for any of the ugliness between herself and the FSIL, then yes, that means she has to find some way to get along with the FSIL.  That said, I would do that before extending the FSIL a shower invitation, and not use the shower itself to establish a better relationship with her FSIL.  The better relationship should exist before any shower invitation goes to the FSIL.  A party invitation doesn't constitute an apology, and if the FSIL was invited and things are still strained between them, the FSIL may well decline the invitation or otherwise make it an unpleasant occasion for all.  Nobody wants that!
    And this is what some of us are saying is a bad idea. If OP is going to stand up to the FMIL and risk a family divide, she needs to do it with her FI's backing. No one will care that it's ultimately FSIL's fault, it will turn out badly for OP. 

    If the FI is not supporting her in this, either he's an asshole or she's over-reacting. 
    If she's not overreacting and he won't support her, it doesn't sound like inviting or not inviting the FSIL is going to make a difference to her relationship with this family, even if it does to her own peace of mind.
  • I'm in agreement with the other posts stating you've got a FI issue.  Your FI is going to be your spouse and partner in life. They should not be ignoring your issues or problems. If you're overreacting to the situ with your FSIL OR she really is horrid to you, your FI should be taking time to discuss the issue and calm and help you with the problem. Weddings tend to cause a lot of stress and she may not be nice to you, but it's getting blown out of proportion under the current circumstances.  Your FI should be there giving perspective and again should be there for you, not saying it's your problem and telling you to deal with it.

    Additionally, why are you letting someone get under your skin this much? You don't control her, but you do control you! If she's nasty to you, you can ignore her but keep civility in place from your side.  Maybe she's a completely toxic person to you, I completely understand. Have a candid conversation with both your FI and FMIL about it.  Also, being civil if she's not, makes her look poorly, not you.

    Your FMIL has no say in the guest list for an event she's not hosting.  You can explain that to her nicely and open the dialogue about the issue with FSIL...use examples, explain you feel you've gone the extra mile and no longer feel obligated to include her in events that are specifically for you.  That's acceptable.

    Good luck.

  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    wellnow said:

    I'm in agreement with the other posts stating you've got a FI issue.  Your FI is going to be your spouse and partner in life. They should not be ignoring your issues or problems. If you're overreacting to the situ with your FSIL OR she really is horrid to you, your FI should be taking time to discuss the issue and calm and help you with the problem. Weddings tend to cause a lot of stress and she may not be nice to you, but it's getting blown out of proportion under the current circumstances.  Your FI should be there giving perspective and again should be there for you, not saying it's your problem and telling you to deal with it.

    Additionally, why are you letting someone get under your skin this much? You don't control her, but you do control you! If she's nasty to you, you can ignore her but keep civility in place from your side.  Maybe she's a completely toxic person to you, I completely understand. Have a candid conversation with both your FI and FMIL about it.  Also, being civil if she's not, makes her look poorly, not you.

    Your FMIL has no say in the guest list for an event she's not hosting.  You can explain that to her nicely and open the dialogue about the issue with FSIL...use examples, explain you feel you've gone the extra mile and no longer feel obligated to include her in events that are specifically for you.  That's acceptable.

    Good luck.

    The OP says this has been going on for four years:

    I've done everything but break my spine bending over backward to accommodate this woman. I have spent the last four years going out of my way to be kind to her, to extend gesture after gesture of friendship, to pretend I don't know she has a problem with me (for whatever reason). Her attitude towards me continues to be just short of hostile. My patience with her has worn very thin, and I refuse to spend the rest of my life letting her treat me like the sh*t she stepped in... and having to do so because it's expected of ME to be the bigger person.


  • Lets us get back to basics.  The OP posted a vent about her future in-laws' behavior.  This was the question she asked

    "Does anyone have any advice at all on how I should handle this? I know I have to have a talk with my FMIL, but I'm not in a place emotionally where I can have that yet"

    I advised that she suck it up and invite the FSIL to avoid family drama.  I, personally, think avoiding drama is more important than an invitation to a shower.

    Jen advises that she should confront FMIL and FSIL with the behavior.  This will result in drama, but Jen thinks it is worth it to establish boundaries, assuming that the family will even acknowledge or respect those boundaries.

    Others have posted that the FI is not supporting the OP in this dilemma, and that this should be her first concern.

    OP has not replied to this discussion at all.

    I think this thread is done.  If OP cared, she would have been back.  I would love to be a fly on the wall at this shower.

    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    SP29
  • photokittyphotokitty where I want to be mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    OP, I see you are still logging in and out of curiosity I looked at your previous threads - your FI wanted you to make this women a BM.

    I don't know what you think is going on. He and his family have made it clear how they feel. I really think you need to decide if you want to marry into a this situation.

    In April he was forcing your to hang out with FBIL & FSIL as a unit. An unsupportive and overbearing FI is a much bigger issue than your FSIL issue.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

    OliveOilsMomspockforprezzitiqueen
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    edited February 2016
    scribe95 said:
    At some point you either accept that this rather unpleasant woman - though I still have no examples - is a part of your new family and treat her with civility even if she is in the wrong or you don't enter the family. 
    Someone needs to say that to the FSIL.

    I think that the OP should just break the engagement and marry someone who treats her with respect and doesn't expect her to keep "treating with civility" people who don't treat her with civility - including himself for four fucking years.
  • photokittyphotokitty where I want to be mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    Jen4948 said:
    scribe95 said:
    At some point you either accept that this rather unpleasant woman - though I still have no examples - is a part of your new family and treat her with civility even if she is in the wrong or you don't enter the family. 
    Someone needs to say that to the FSIL.

    I think that the OP should just break the engagement and marry someone who treats her with respect and doesn't expect her to keep "treating with civility" people who don't treat her with civility - including himself for four fucking years.
    FSIL is already in the family and doesn't seem to care that OP dislikes her rude behavior. Telling her anything probably won't change the situation. I can't imagine that someone hasn't already told her to knock it off, unless there is nothing to knock off - without examples this is a real possibility.

    Your latter statement, no one is disagreeing with, I'm in total agreement - I'd have broken the engagement some time ago. If OP isn't willing to do that, then scribe's advice is spot on.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

    MyNameIsNot
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    edited February 2016
    Jen4948 said:
    scribe95 said:
    At some point you either accept that this rather unpleasant woman - though I still have no examples - is a part of your new family and treat her with civility even if she is in the wrong or you don't enter the family. 
    Someone needs to say that to the FSIL.

    I think that the OP should just break the engagement and marry someone who treats her with respect and doesn't expect her to keep "treating with civility" people who don't treat her with civility - including himself for four fucking years.
    FSIL is already in the family and doesn't seem to care that OP dislikes her rude behavior. Telling her anything probably won't change the situation. I can't imagine that someone hasn't already told her to knock it off, unless there is nothing to knock off - without examples this is a real possibility.

    Your latter statement, no one is disagreeing with, I'm in total agreement - I'd have broken the engagement some time ago. If OP isn't willing to do that, then scribe's advice is spot on.
    I still think that if one treats someone with civility for four years and gets nothing but disrespect in return, one is not required to invite that person to one's shower - even if they are family.  One is entitled to set boundaries with family members that require civil treatment.

    It doesn't require aggressiveness - the OP could simply say to her FMIL on the matter of the shower, "Unfortunately, I'm not able to extend FSIL an invitation to the shower" which is in fact true as only the hostesses can do that.  

    But as far as civil treatment goes, I would tell the FMIL, "Out of respect for you and FI, I have tried to be civil to FSIL for four years, and she does not reciprocate, even when asked to do so.  For that reason, I am setting limits on what I am willing to accept and expect from all family members, and among those limits is that I am at all times to be treated with respect by all members of the family."

    And then she can apply appropriate consequences if she isn't - ranging from not extending invitations to disrespectful relatives (not to the wedding, but to other events) through not spending time with them to not marrying into their family.  Because the onus of respectful treatment in the family has to fall on everyone's shoulders - not just those of the OP.

    And while it's true that the OP hasn't provided specific examples, that's not prima facie proof that there aren't any.
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    Stuck in box
    From what the OP has posted about this family, they are already "alienated" even after 4 years of her being "civil" to them, and nothing she can say or do, including inviting the FSIL to the shower, will change that for one second.  Continuing to do the same will just result in more of the same. So advising her to do nothing about her situation for fear of "alienating" people who are treating her with incivility and hostility, and who aren't going to stop, even though she keeps being civil, is not going to result in better treatment in any way, shape, or form - just more hoops for the OP to jump through on pain of accusations of "disrespect to the family."  And that's no way to start off a marriage or new relationships either, by emotionally blackmailing the OP, because it gives all power to people who are already "alienated" regardless of whether or not the OP sets boundaries with them or not.  What's clear is that by not setting boundaries that require respectful treatment, nothing will change for the better for the OP.  Nobody needs to be married or "understand" what passes for "family dynamics" in this dysfunctional family to see that.  
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