Father's wife in processional?

jcough2

Please help me figure out what to do with my father's wife during the processional. Please bear with my through my family drama... 

My parents divorced about 10 years ago over infidelity and my father went on to marry the woman. She's fine as a person and we are cordial to another, and even friendly when my dad is watching. My dad married her a few years ago prior to both of my sisters' weddings in order for her to be officially recognized in their weddings. However, they did not include her in their processionals and it caused a LOT of problems. It is very important to him that she be included in the processional and when she wasn't for my sisters, my dad lashed out at my mother and had her crying for much of the evening for both of the weddings.

In order to avoid this, I had planned on giving SM a courtesy escort prior to everyone else in our wedding but when my FI found out, he was irate. He feels like SM's presence in the processional would demean or insult our relationships with our own mothers by having SM walking before them. It has been one of the few things he has had an opinion on in this entire planning process. I frankly do not care if she is included or not--let's be honest--I won't see it and no one will remember! My father (who is paying for the entire wedding), wants her to be included and will NOT budge.

If we had lots of family to walk down, I would have them walk in between SM and Mothers, but we have no grandparents and all siblings are already part of the wedding.  I had thought maybe we could add a lot of space between SM and moms, and change songs.  We want to do a unity candle and even flower ceremony to moms (not SM) to make our mothers stand-out and feel special, but FI still insists that she not be in processional before our mothers.

Any advice on how to handle this?  

artbyallie

While it is FI's wedding too, he does not get any say in how you handle your family. A twenty-second walk down the aisle is not going to kill anyone. I would not add any space though. SM+escort, seating her in the row where your father will sit later (this assumes he's walking with you, if not he can escort her to their seat); FILs, assuming they're still married to each other; your mom+escort (her partner, if she has one).

IMO your FI needs to back down on this one because you/SM/mom/dad are all civil to each other. If it were a toxic relationship he might have a point. The only other option as I see it is to politely decline your father's offer to pay and have the wedding you want that you pay for.

I would skip the unity candle and any other extra ceremonies, TBH. A wedding is already a unity ceremony and is in any case about uniting the two of you and not anyone else.

ETA: I would also like to say that doing anything that includes your mothers and excludes SM will likely be seen as a snub by your father and should probably be avoided for that reason as well. For example, if you intend to give corsages to the mothers, I would give one to SM too as a courtesy.

JediElizabeth

jcough2 said:

Please help me figure out what to do with my father's wife during the processional. Please bear with my through my family drama... 

My parents divorced about 10 years ago over infidelity and my father went on to marry the woman. She's fine as a person and we are cordial to another, and even friendly when my dad is watching. My dad married her a few years ago prior to both of my sisters' weddings in order for her to be officially recognized in their weddings. However, they did not include her in their processionals and it caused a LOT of problems. It is very important to him that she be included in the processional and when she wasn't for my sisters, my dad lashed out at my mother and had her crying for much of the evening for both of the weddings.

In order to avoid this, I had planned on giving SM a courtesy escort prior to everyone else in our wedding but when my FI found out, he was irate. He feels like SM's presence in the processional would demean or insult our relationships with our own mothers by having SM walking before them. It has been one of the few things he has had an opinion on in this entire planning process. I frankly do not care if she is included or not--let's be honest--I won't see it and no one will remember! My father (who is paying for the entire wedding), wants her to be included and will NOT budge.

If we had lots of family to walk down, I would have them walk in between SM and Mothers, but we have no grandparents and all siblings are already part of the wedding.  I had thought maybe we could add a lot of space between SM and moms, and change songs.  We want to do a unity candle and even flower ceremony to moms (not SM) to make our mothers stand-out and feel special, but FI still insists that she not be in processional before our mothers.

Any advice on how to handle this?  

Ok, it's true that this woman is not your mother, and you do not seem to have a relationship with her. She has no "right" to any place in your wedding, and she is only a guest because she is your father's SO. However, since your father is paying, seems to think his wife's entitlement is more important than his daughters having lovely weddings, and you don't really care, I would do exactly what you're doing: let her be escorted in, when you won't even see it. It's not a bridge I would be willing to die on. I would probably try to have her escorted before the music & processional starts, but again. Not a bridge I'd die on.

How are your mothers coming in? Are they going to both be escorted by their current husband/SO? In Jewish ceremonies, the parents of both the bride and groom escort their children down the aisle, so maybe you could set up the processional like that, making it clear who the moms are:

1. SM w/escort
2. Groom w/both his parents
3. Wedding party in pairs
4. You w/both your parents

TBH though, if your moms get corsages, and they're doing a unity candle, and your FI is having a mother/son dance, I think it's clear that they're the important ones in your lives. 

What's a flower ceremony? If it's another unity ceremony, I'd skip one; one is more than enough.

Jen4948

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

holyguacamole79

FI needs to get over it.   Her walking down the aisle has no bearing on the sanctity of marriage.

OurWildKingdom

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

QFT

OurWildKingdom

JediElizabeth said:

jcough2 said:

Please help me figure out what to do with my father's wife during the processional. Please bear with my through my family drama... 

My parents divorced about 10 years ago over infidelity and my father went on to marry the woman. She's fine as a person and we are cordial to another, and even friendly when my dad is watching. My dad married her a few years ago prior to both of my sisters' weddings in order for her to be officially recognized in their weddings. However, they did not include her in their processionals and it caused a LOT of problems. It is very important to him that she be included in the processional and when she wasn't for my sisters, my dad lashed out at my mother and had her crying for much of the evening for both of the weddings.

In order to avoid this, I had planned on giving SM a courtesy escort prior to everyone else in our wedding but when my FI found out, he was irate. He feels like SM's presence in the processional would demean or insult our relationships with our own mothers by having SM walking before them. It has been one of the few things he has had an opinion on in this entire planning process. I frankly do not care if she is included or not--let's be honest--I won't see it and no one will remember! My father (who is paying for the entire wedding), wants her to be included and will NOT budge.

If we had lots of family to walk down, I would have them walk in between SM and Mothers, but we have no grandparents and all siblings are already part of the wedding.  I had thought maybe we could add a lot of space between SM and moms, and change songs.  We want to do a unity candle and even flower ceremony to moms (not SM) to make our mothers stand-out and feel special, but FI still insists that she not be in processional before our mothers.

Any advice on how to handle this?  

Ok, it's true that this woman is not your mother, and you do not seem to have a relationship with her. She has no "right" to any place in your wedding, and she is only a guest because she is your father's SO. However, since your father is paying, seems to think his wife's entitlement is more important than his daughters having lovely weddings, and you don't really care, I would do exactly what you're doing: let her be escorted in, when you won't even see it. It's not a bridge I would be willing to die on. I would probably try to have her escorted before the music & processional starts, but again. Not a bridge I'd die on.

How are your mothers coming in? Are they going to both be escorted by their current husband/SO? In Jewish ceremonies, the parents of both the bride and groom escort their children down the aisle, so maybe you could set up the processional like that, making it clear who the moms are:

1. SM w/escort
2. Groom w/both his parents
3. Wedding party in pairs
4. You w/both your parents

TBH though, if your moms get corsages, and they're doing a unity candle, and your FI is having a mother/son dance, I think it's clear that they're the important ones in your lives. 

What's a flower ceremony? If it's another unity ceremony, I'd skip one; one is more than enough.

Or your father could escort your SM, and your mother could escort you.

ETA: Why was your father yelling at your mother to the point where she was in tears? That is not OK.

Why was your FI irate about your attempt to include your SM? Also not OK.

Sounds like everyone involved has a lot of things to work through before the wedding.

JediElizabeth

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

geebee908

OurWildKingdom said:

JediElizabeth said:

jcough2 said:

Please help me figure out what to do with my father's wife during the processional. Please bear with my through my family drama... 

My parents divorced about 10 years ago over infidelity and my father went on to marry the woman. She's fine as a person and we are cordial to another, and even friendly when my dad is watching. My dad married her a few years ago prior to both of my sisters' weddings in order for her to be officially recognized in their weddings. However, they did not include her in their processionals and it caused a LOT of problems. It is very important to him that she be included in the processional and when she wasn't for my sisters, my dad lashed out at my mother and had her crying for much of the evening for both of the weddings.

In order to avoid this, I had planned on giving SM a courtesy escort prior to everyone else in our wedding but when my FI found out, he was irate. He feels like SM's presence in the processional would demean or insult our relationships with our own mothers by having SM walking before them. It has been one of the few things he has had an opinion on in this entire planning process. I frankly do not care if she is included or not--let's be honest--I won't see it and no one will remember! My father (who is paying for the entire wedding), wants her to be included and will NOT budge.

If we had lots of family to walk down, I would have them walk in between SM and Mothers, but we have no grandparents and all siblings are already part of the wedding.  I had thought maybe we could add a lot of space between SM and moms, and change songs.  We want to do a unity candle and even flower ceremony to moms (not SM) to make our mothers stand-out and feel special, but FI still insists that she not be in processional before our mothers.

Any advice on how to handle this?  

Ok, it's true that this woman is not your mother, and you do not seem to have a relationship with her. She has no "right" to any place in your wedding, and she is only a guest because she is your father's SO. However, since your father is paying, seems to think his wife's entitlement is more important than his daughters having lovely weddings, and you don't really care, I would do exactly what you're doing: let her be escorted in, when you won't even see it. It's not a bridge I would be willing to die on. I would probably try to have her escorted before the music & processional starts, but again. Not a bridge I'd die on.

How are your mothers coming in? Are they going to both be escorted by their current husband/SO? In Jewish ceremonies, the parents of both the bride and groom escort their children down the aisle, so maybe you could set up the processional like that, making it clear who the moms are:

1. SM w/escort
2. Groom w/both his parents
3. Wedding party in pairs
4. You w/both your parents

TBH though, if your moms get corsages, and they're doing a unity candle, and your FI is having a mother/son dance, I think it's clear that they're the important ones in your lives. 

What's a flower ceremony? If it's another unity ceremony, I'd skip one; one is more than enough.

Or your father could escort your SM, and your mother could escort you.

ETA: Why was your father yelling at your mother to the point where she was in tears? That is not OK.

Why was your FI irate about your attempt to include your SM? Also not OK.

Sounds like everyone involved has a lot of things to work through before the wedding.

I like the idea of switching who escorts the bride, but I'm sure that won't fly with her father and is likely to cause as much or more of a scene than he would make with any slight to his wife.

kimmiinthemitten

jcough2 said:

My parents divorced about 10 years ago over infidelity and my father went on to marry the woman. She's fine as a person and we are cordial to another, and even friendly when my dad is watching. My dad married her a few years ago prior to both of my sisters' weddings in order for her to be officially recognized in their weddings. However, they did not include her in their processionals and it caused a LOT of problems. 

So, your father, a grown divorced with children man, married his years-long girlfriend only to force you and your siblings to recognize her at weddings?  



Either way, I agree this isn't a hill to die on.  Like it or not, like her or not, like the circumstances or not, she is your fathers wife and everyone at the wedding already knows it.  Letting her walk in a processional first in no way takes away from anyone's biological mother.  It's a bid ridiculous to even think so.

geebee908

If it were my dad, I'd also tell him that if he can't be civil to my mom for the day, I'll be having him escorted of the premises. In my case, since my dad is a bad drunk, this has actually happened at a family event.

Jen4948

JediElizabeth said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

And I would normally agree with you, but if the OP wants to have a relationship with her father and wants him to attend the wedding, especially if she doesn't want him to lash out at her mother, she unfortunately needs to accommodate him to at least some extent, even though yes, it's obnoxious.

You or I might not make that choice, but it's not up to us.

CMGragain

Are you Jewish?  Parents do process in Jewish weddings, but not usually in Christian or secular ones.  In Christian wedding, the parents are seated just before the bridal party begins the processional.  They are not a part of the processional.  I would seat the stepmother, the MOG and then the MOB, in that order.  All get special corsages and special escorts.  Your father may even escort his wife himself before returning to escort you in the processional.
Your FI has absolutely no say in this.  He can worry about his own family.  He might like to know that the person who processes LAST is the most important one (as per precedence), not the first.

MobKaz

JediElizabeth said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

I also agree with this.  One thing said repeatedly is that the  "he who pays" guideline has NO bearing when it comes to the ceremony.  If the wedding is secular or Christian based, then I agree with @CMGragain in terms of parent order and seating.  However, when it comes to any ceremonial involvement, all bets are off and the mothers of the bride and groom have every right to be included in components that spouses of parents are not.  OP should try to respect the relationship that her father has with his wife, but she is NOT under any obligation to recognize any relationship, if any, she may or may not have with his spouse.

MobKaz

Jen4948 said:

JediElizabeth said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

And I would normally agree with you, but if the OP wants to have a relationship with her father and wants him to attend the wedding, especially if she doesn't want him to lash out at her mother, she unfortunately needs to accommodate him to at least some extent, even though yes, it's obnoxious.

You or I might not make that choice, but it's not up to us.

OP created this thread asking for our opinions.  OP said nothing about her father boycotting the wedding if his wife was not included in the processional.  OP really did not say much about her relationship with her father, either.  It sounds to me what OP is looking for is to prevent her father from behaving like a bully to her mother, who is actually an innocent bystander in this scenario.

Dad has no right to treat his former wife in this manner.  I personally might throw this oaf a bone and allow his wife to walk in just prior to the parents, but I would absolutely not alter my ceremony one iota for her or him.  I would also make sure that a strong personality remained steadfast by mom's side to ward off any backlash dad may try to throw her.

SP29

I think since it wouldn't affect you any, appease your dad by letting him walk his wife in at the very start of the processional. He can take her to her seat, then return up the aisle to walk you down (if that is what you are doing). She should be seated with him for the ceremony and reception.

Beyond that, do your ceremony as you please. I don't think you need to include her in any sort of unity ceremony (the flower ceremony usually involves the mothers), or give her a corsage if you don't want to (but that might also be a way to appease your father without taking any skin off your back).

I would also be clear with your father that if he speaks to your mother in any sort of similar fashion to how he spoke with her at your sisters' weddings, he can leave.

Jen4948

MobKaz said:

Jen4948 said:

JediElizabeth said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

And I would normally agree with you, but if the OP wants to have a relationship with her father and wants him to attend the wedding, especially if she doesn't want him to lash out at her mother, she unfortunately needs to accommodate him to at least some extent, even though yes, it's obnoxious.

You or I might not make that choice, but it's not up to us.

OP created this thread asking for our opinions.  OP said nothing about her father boycotting the wedding if his wife was not included in the processional.  OP really did not say much about her relationship with her father, either.  It sounds to me what OP is looking for is to prevent her father from behaving like a bully to her mother, who is actually an innocent bystander in this scenario.

Dad has no right to treat his former wife in this manner.  I personally might throw this oaf a bone and allow his wife to walk in just prior to the parents, but I would absolutely not alter my ceremony one iota for her or him.  I would also make sure that a strong personality remained steadfast by mom's side to ward off any backlash dad may try to throw her.

But it's ultimately not up to us what she decides to do. She isn't required to take our advice.

Of course you or I or @JediElizabeth wouldn't allow him to bully his ex-wife. That's just wrong, and hopefully the OP won't allow it either-and will have security throw him out on his ass if he tries it. But let's face it - he's not our father, he's her father and it seems to matter to her whether or not her father is there at all.

If she does invite him, it might well be worth it to her to throw him this particular bone. If he were to use it to make more demands or ultimatums about his or his wife's participation, then yes, I think setting him straight on that would definitely be in order.

kimmiinthemitten

I can't quote and edit from my phone well, but I'm guessing there's a whole other part of this story involving the biological mom that OP left out.  

Dad marries girlfriend for wedding recognition, then yells at bio mom when gf now wife is not included, and years following when the next wedding is happening this is still an issue no one has discussed?

It just doesn't add up. 

MobKaz

Jen4948 said:

MobKaz said:

Jen4948 said:

JediElizabeth said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

And I would normally agree with you, but if the OP wants to have a relationship with her father and wants him to attend the wedding, especially if she doesn't want him to lash out at her mother, she unfortunately needs to accommodate him to at least some extent, even though yes, it's obnoxious.

You or I might not make that choice, but it's not up to us.

OP created this thread asking for our opinions.  OP said nothing about her father boycotting the wedding if his wife was not included in the processional.  OP really did not say much about her relationship with her father, either.  It sounds to me what OP is looking for is to prevent her father from behaving like a bully to her mother, who is actually an innocent bystander in this scenario.

Dad has no right to treat his former wife in this manner.  I personally might throw this oaf a bone and allow his wife to walk in just prior to the parents, but I would absolutely not alter my ceremony one iota for her or him.  I would also make sure that a strong personality remained steadfast by mom's side to ward off any backlash dad may try to throw her.

But it's ultimately not up to us what she decides to do. She isn't required to take our advice.

Of course you or I or @JediElizabeth wouldn't allow him to bully his ex-wife. That's just wrong, and hopefully the OP won't allow it either-and will have security throw him out on his ass if he tries it. But let's face it - he's not our father, he's her father and it seems to matter to her whether or not her father is there at all.

If she does invite him, it might well be worth it to her to throw him this particular bone. If he were to use it to make more demands or ultimatums about his or his wife's participation, then yes, I think setting him straight on that would definitely be in order.

I'm sorry.  I am not trying to be dense or argumentative.  Nowhere in this thread do I see the dilemma being whether or not to invite dad to the wedding.  I also do not see where it states that dad will refuse to attend if his wife is not an official member of the processional. 

Jen4948

MobKaz said:

Jen4948 said:

MobKaz said:

Jen4948 said:

JediElizabeth said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, your FI needs to butt out of your relationship with your SM. It really isn't and shouldn't be up to him whether or not she is in the processional, so he needs to get over it if she is.

But since your father is paying and he will perceive anything you do for your mothers that omits your SM as a snub, I would either skip the unity candle, corsages, and anything else that you intend only for your biological mothers, or include her in them.

I 100% disagree. I'd maybe give her a corsage, if I thought it would help, because that's not a big deal.

But if OP & FI want a unity candle, and they want their mothers to do it, they should have it - just like they should have the ceremony be in the religious tradition of their choice, and with the officiant of their choice. 

Having to give up things they want in ther ceremony because someone's a big baby about not being included (or his SO not being included) is not cool. It's a boundary that they shouldn't let her father cross, or it's going to be harder to set it later. If OP has children later, will Mom not be able to come into the hospital with them because SM is included, lest Dad not financially help out with grandkids? At some point, there's got to be a boundary where Mom gets privileges that SM doesn't - particularly because OP was an adult when SM was introduced to their lives. 

It will also cause resentment - possibly from OP but definitely from her FI - if they have to make big ceremony choices around a woman they don't have a close relationship with. 

And I would normally agree with you, but if the OP wants to have a relationship with her father and wants him to attend the wedding, especially if she doesn't want him to lash out at her mother, she unfortunately needs to accommodate him to at least some extent, even though yes, it's obnoxious.

You or I might not make that choice, but it's not up to us.

OP created this thread asking for our opinions.  OP said nothing about her father boycotting the wedding if his wife was not included in the processional.  OP really did not say much about her relationship with her father, either.  It sounds to me what OP is looking for is to prevent her father from behaving like a bully to her mother, who is actually an innocent bystander in this scenario.

Dad has no right to treat his former wife in this manner.  I personally might throw this oaf a bone and allow his wife to walk in just prior to the parents, but I would absolutely not alter my ceremony one iota for her or him.  I would also make sure that a strong personality remained steadfast by mom's side to ward off any backlash dad may try to throw her.

But it's ultimately not up to us what she decides to do. She isn't required to take our advice.

Of course you or I or @JediElizabeth wouldn't allow him to bully his ex-wife. That's just wrong, and hopefully the OP won't allow it either-and will have security throw him out on his ass if he tries it. But let's face it - he's not our father, he's her father and it seems to matter to her whether or not her father is there at all.

If she does invite him, it might well be worth it to her to throw him this particular bone. If he were to use it to make more demands or ultimatums about his or his wife's participation, then yes, I think setting him straight on that would definitely be in order.

I'm sorry.  I am not trying to be dense or argumentative.  Nowhere in this thread do I see the dilemma being whether or not to invite dad to the wedding.  I also do not see where it states that dad will refuse to attend if his wife is not an official member of the processional. 

I did not say that there is a "dilemma." The OP says she doesn't care, but she doesn't anywhere indicate that not inviting her father is a course of action she's willing to consider.

But given how he reacted at two other daughters' weddings where his current wife was not given a role of the prominence he wanted, I don't think it's hard to foresee his not reacting well-up to and including the possibility of his issuing an ultimatum-about whatever he will do if he doesn't get what he wants, including threatening not to attend.

I'm also not interested in playing the "the OP did/n't say X" game when I'm not the only one who suggested that it might be the best course of action for the  stepmother to be included in the processional at a moment when the OP doesn't have to see it.  

And as far as unity ceremonies go, whether they involve the mothers lighting a candle or some other ritual that's supposed to add more symbolism to a ceremony that is itself a "unity" ceremony, I find it unnecessary and would suggest skipping it altogether, but if the OP wants it, that's up to her. If she wants to include or exclude her stepmother from it, again, that's up to her. But if she chooses to do it and her father demands that his wife has to be included in it as a condition of his attendance, it's up to the OP to decide whether and how she wants to deal with that, and what if any boundaries she wants to set and how she wants to maintain them.

Because if my father was being such a fucking jackass he and his wife wouldn't get an invitation. But I'm not the OP.

banana468

It seems really odd to me that this is a hill your dad is willing to die on.

I'd probably offer a compromise that he can escort his wife down the aisle to the seat she'll share next to him after her escorts you.   This won't be part of the actual processional but it can be after all other guests are seated and before the mothers are seated.   This would be more respectful to your moms and still lets her have a bit more of an honor.

That said, I'd make it quite clear to your dad that your father is your father but his wife is not a secondary mother figure here.   She'll be honored as his wife of the father of the bride but he doesn't get to move her more into the picture because he wants to.

Quite frankly I think this may warrant a deeper conversation with him in the grand scheme of things.    I'd want to make it clear that you'll respect him and his marriage but that doesn't mean that he gets supreme control either. 

justsie

If this is a hill your father is willing to die on, are you able/willing to say "no thank you" to his offer to pay for your entire wedding? 

[Deleted User]

My thought is that despite history, she is your stepmother and your father is paying for the wedding. She deserves to be escorted to her seat just as your mother does. If you are doing a unity candle or something of that sort, your mother and FI mother will stand out as the mom's because it would be them lighting the individual candles typically as the representative of each family. Once guests see this, they will know how the moms are. And like others said, if FI doesn't like this, you'll need to say to dad, thank you for your offer to help, but we are going to decline your money. FI needs to realize that stepmom is going to be at your wedding if she is escorted down the isle or not. He also needs to realize that she will be at other family events down the road since she is married to your father. So he better get use to it and just accept it now.

If your mom is ok with it and you are ok with it, then let it happen. Letting stepmom be escorted down the isle should have no impact on his relationship or your relationship with his mom. If it will, that's a whole different issue then that you need to address before your wedding day.

MrsMack10612

I did not read all the responses (yet), but I had a similar issue at my wedding.  My option was going to be for my father  (who was not walking me down the aisle) and his wife to be seated last, after all other guests had arrived and sat down, before the official procession started. In this way they were honored as special guests to be seated last, but were not really part of the procession.  This probably would have worked, but the wife bailed the morning of and our wedding coordinator at the church flubbed it. 

ETA:  I also provided a corsage and her name in the program. 

@kimmiinthemitten - my father and his wife absolutely pulled the we're going to get married so you have to invite wife routine for one of my siblings weddings.

CMGragain

There is no way you can invite someone and not also invite their spouse.  I had to explain this to my mother when she wanted to invite her exes to my wedding.  With all the drama at my wedding, I should have served popcorn.

Jen4948

CMGragain said:

There is no way you can invite someone and not also invite their spouse.  I had to explain this to my mother when she wanted to invite her exes to my wedding.  With all the drama at my wedding, I should have served popcorn.

The OP isn't asking how to not invite her father's wife.

MobKaz

Jen4948 said:

CMGragain said:

There is no way you can invite someone and not also invite their spouse.  I had to explain this to my mother when she wanted to invite her exes to my wedding.  With all the drama at my wedding, I should have served popcorn.

The OP isn't asking how to not invite her father's wife.

@Jen4948 said, "If she does invite him, it might well be worth it to her to throw him this particular bone".

Jen4948

MobKaz said:

Jen4948 said:

CMGragain said:

There is no way you can invite someone and not also invite their spouse.  I had to explain this to my mother when she wanted to invite her exes to my wedding.  With all the drama at my wedding, I should have served popcorn.

The OP isn't asking how to not invite her father's wife.

@Jen4948 said, "If she does invite him, it might well be worth it to her to throw him this particular bone".

Oh FFS, the OP is already aware that if she invites her father she has to invite his wife. CMGragain was suggesting otherwise.

The OP was asking if she has to include the wife in the processional and in anything the mothers do, which she doesn't have to but may wish to, depending on her relationship with her and her father.

CMGragain

MrsMack10612 said:

I did not read all the responses (yet), but I had a similar issue at my wedding.  My option was going to be for my father  (who was not walking me down the aisle) and his wife to be seated last, after all other guests had arrived and sat down, before the official procession started. In this way they were honored as special guests to be seated last, but were not really part of the procession.  This probably would have worked, but the wife bailed the morning of and our wedding coordinator at the church flubbed it. 

ETA:  I also provided a corsage and her name in the program. 

@kimmiinthemitten - my father and his wife absolutely pulled the we're going to get married so you have to invite wife routine for one of my siblings weddings.

Sorry.  I should have clarified that this was what I was responding to.  I am aware of the OP's position.

MrsMack10612

CMGragain said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I did not read all the responses (yet), but I had a similar issue at my wedding.  My option was going to be for my father  (who was not walking me down the aisle) and his wife to be seated last, after all other guests had arrived and sat down, before the official procession started. In this way they were honored as special guests to be seated last, but were not really part of the procession.  This probably would have worked, but the wife bailed the morning of and our wedding coordinator at the church flubbed it. 

ETA:  I also provided a corsage and her name in the program. 

@kimmiinthemitten - my father and his wife absolutely pulled the we're going to get married so you have to invite wife routine for one of my siblings weddings.

Sorry.  I should have clarified that this was what I was responding to.  I am aware of the OP's position.

There was a whole lot of drama around this.  This was the first wedding of my siblings, parents freshly divorced, shitty situation all around.  My my soon to be SIL (now exSIL) at the time was absolutely adamant she not be invited when they weren't married (after too), but the we're married now sort of changed the game.

Knottie1453668196

It really depends on the kind of relationship you have with your father, and how much you want him involved in your life going forward.  Him paying for the wedding does complicate things, but at the end of the day it's your wedding, and your parents should be there to support you, all of them.
You could possibly have her included in some other way, giving her a corsage as well as your mothers, or something to that effect, and having her seated in the front row with immediate family, but if you don't want her walking down the isle that's your choice and you should sick to your guns.  
And as harsh as it might sound, your parent's interactions at your wedding are not your responsibility.  They're both adults who love you and should be able to behave civilly on a day so important to you.  Maybe have a conversation with them (desperately) before the day, telling them that you expect them to behave appropriately.