FMIL and FSIL Troubles! Please help!

LivingtheDream

Without getting into the crazy details that make up this entire family situation I will give you the main issue... My FI proposed just 2 months ago.  We are very excited and planning a wedding for next year. My FI has only one sister and has always been close with his mother. I asked his sister to join the bridal party as a bridesmaid.  In the past 2 months any time my FI and I have made a decision, any decision that they do not agree with or does not fit in their "family" plan they become hostile and begin attacking us verbally.

My FI recently made a decision they do not agree with to abstain from a family vacation due to financial constraints. They have taken this decision as a direct attack on their family.  My FMIL called and left a VM telling us to remove her from the guest list to make room for people we really care about.  His sister asked that we remove her and her family from the wedding party.  I have ignored these requests as of right now because I feel they were made out of anger and I do not want to make the situation worse.

I don't know what to do... Do I leave them in or take them out? I can't imagine removing them, but how do I navigate making plans and handling them?

Our wedding is a year away and they are already behaving this way! I can't handle a whole year of this while planning what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of our lives.

Please help!

ShesSoCold

Knottie1469364641 said:

Without getting into the crazy details that make up this entire family situation I will give you the main issue... My FI proposed just 2 months ago.  We are very excited and planning a wedding for next year. My FI has only one sister and has always been close with his mother. I asked his sister to join the bridal party as a bridesmaid.  In the past 2 months any time my FI and I have made a decision, any decision that they do not agree with or does not fit in their "family" plan they become hostile and begin attacking us verbally.

My FI recently made a decision they do not agree with to abstain from a family vacation due to financial constraints. They have taken this decision as a direct attack on their family.  My FMIL called and left a VM telling us to remove her from the guest list to make room for people we really care about.  His sister asked that we remove her and her family from the wedding party.  I have ignored these requests as of right now because I feel they were made out of anger and I do not want to make the situation worse.

I don't know what to do... Do I leave them in or take them out? I can't imagine removing them, but how do I navigate making plans and handling them?

Our wedding is a year away and they are already behaving this way! I can't handle a whole year of this while planning what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of our lives.

Please help!

Well, first I hope you're not accepting any money from these people.

Second, cross that bridge when you get to it. Send them invitations, let the sister know what type of dress you'd like her to get (after asking for her budget, of course!) and leave it be. You don't need to do or say anything now. What exactly are you planning right now that they would be involved in?

My MIL pulled all kinda shit when we were planning out wedding. Everything from calling the venue to add people herself behind our backs, to threatening to plan her own vow renewal at the same place the night before (?) to not coming to the wedding at all. We let it roll off our backs, sent her an invitation and let her know the week of that any bullshit would not be tolerated. She came and shut her face. It was fine.

Moral of the story is you (both of you) gotta be firm, say what you mean and mean what you say. If FI tells them he will not tolerate verbal attacks, get up and leave if/when they do.

But if this hostility is new, can you think of anything that may have caused it? I'm not trying to blame you here, but if everyone was all wonderfully friendly 2 months ago and now there's verbal attacks and whatnot happening, ya gotta wonder what happened.

charlotte989875

Knottie1469364641 said:

Without getting into the crazy details that make up this entire family situation I will give you the main issue... My FI proposed just 2 months ago.  We are very excited and planning a wedding for next year. My FI has only one sister and has always been close with his mother. I asked his sister to join the bridal party as a bridesmaid.  In the past 2 months any time my FI and I have made a decision, any decision that they do not agree with or does not fit in their "family" plan they become hostile and begin attacking us verbally.

My FI recently made a decision they do not agree with to abstain from a family vacation due to financial constraints. They have taken this decision as a direct attack on their family.  My FMIL called and left a VM telling us to remove her from the guest list to make room for people we really care about.  His sister asked that we remove her and her family from the wedding party.  I have ignored these requests as of right now because I feel they were made out of anger and I do not want to make the situation worse.

I don't know what to do... Do I leave them in or take them out? I can't imagine removing them, but how do I navigate making plans and handling them?

Our wedding is a year away and they are already behaving this way! I can't handle a whole year of this while planning what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of our lives.

Please help!

Leave the decisions to attend or stay in the wedding party to them. Your FI should say "Mom we love you and want you to be with us when we get married. We know you don't always agree with what we are doing, but Knottie#s and I are planning our lives in the way we see fit. If you cannot attend we will miss you very much, but we hope you can join us" and leave it at that.

Since you asked his sister to be in your bridal party you should call her and say "FSIL, I really would like for you to stand up with me on the day I get married. I am sorry that you disagreed with our decision regarding the vacation. FI and I would love for you to be at our wedding, but if you can't we will miss you terribly". 

It it sucks they are trying to tie decisions about a family vacation to your wedding, but I think you need to call their bluff. They are trying to manipulate you, don't play into it. 

banana468

1) Don't take any money from them.

2) Your FI needs to handle this but he needs to use the word WE or I and never SHE.   "WE have decided that spending money on a vacation isn't the best use of our resources at the moment.   This is not a personal slight to you Mom / SIS." Period.

3) If they try to manipulate with these statements then I think your FI needs to continue, "Mom, I am not going to continue to have this discussion.   I hope you will attend my wedding but if YOU want to make the choice to decline our invitation that's something that will make us sad but we'll go on without you. "

Frankly, if that discussion continued I'd be quite clear, "Mom, you're mad at me for not spending MY money to attend a vacation that YOU planned.   You can be sad all you want but I'm not going to start spending my money the way YOU want me to."  

Leave the wedding out of this.   Handle it has a family issue and your FI needs to start setting boundaries. 

LivingtheDream

Thank you for your reply!  No, there is nothing they need to be involved in at this time which is a good point I had not considered. 

As far as relationships and what may have led to this... While I have had a good relationship my FMIL and FSIL up to this point they have been nagging him continuously about how he treats my family better.  We spend the majority of our time with his family, attend every family function and divide our time the best we can.  We purchased a home earlier this year within 10 minutes of his sisters house (an hour away from my family), we help support his mother and have not cut off any contact with them in anyway since becoming a couple or getting engaged.  My opinion is they are concerned he will not be the main man in their life now that he is building his own life.  (A little backstory: my FI lived with his mother until he moved in with me. She became very dependent on him and he has slowly been pulling back from the financial support he has given her.  Very slowly)  This is a result of us drawing boundaries and standing firm on them.

When he announced that we may not be going on the vacation I was confronted by my FSIL immediately via text and told that not taking vacation to save for our wedding as b*llsh*t.  My only response was to let her know the wedding was not the sole financial reason for us not going and to please discuss with her brother. From that point on it spiraled out of control. My FMIL blames me completely and says that he is choosing me and my family over them.  Again, we have not failed to be around for them, family parties, taking the mother grocery shopping, visits to the sister and her family.

LivingtheDream

I forgot to mention... as we help support the mother and the sister does not work and is a SAHM, we do not accept any money from them and they are NOT contributing to the wedding.   We asked that my FMIL, who is an amazing cook, maybe prepare food (that we will purchase) for the rehearsal dinner, but that is all. 

banana468

Knottie1469364641 said:

I forgot to mention... as we help support the mother and the sister does not work and is a SAHM, we do not accept any money from them and they are NOT contributing to the wedding.   We asked that my FMIL, who is an amazing cook, maybe prepare food (that we will purchase) for the rehearsal dinner, but that is all. 

Don't even ask this.   

Frankly it sounds like Mom got used to him there and she raised her daughter to have the same family expectations.

Putting up boundaries doesn't always go well but that does not mean that you kowtow to ever needless demand simply because they're family and you want to avoid a scene.   

If the discussion of family vacation comes up again I think the only thing that can be done then is to say, "I believe this matter is closed." and then bean dip.  If they push the discussion remove yourself.

LivingtheDream

Thank you!  I will give this a shot.  I've heard it gets worse before better so here's praying "worse" doesn't kill me before the better

charlotte989875

Knottie1469364641 said:

Thank you!  I will give this a shot.  I've heard it gets worse before better so here's praying "worse" doesn't kill me before the better

I know it's hard and often super uncomfortable, but in the long run it will be worth it. Think about all the decisions you two will make about where to buy a house, how to raise kids (if you're choosing to have them), where and when to work, how to spend holidays. The more you give in the harder all these conversations are going to be. 

short+sassy

Congratulations on your engagement!  Though I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you are now having with your FMIL and FSIL.

Soooo...your FMIL has at least some financial difficulties and is partially supported by her son.  Is apparently using her scarce money to go on vacation...but then is mad when her son, who uses some of his money every month for her living expenses, tells her he can't afford the vacation.

Is it hard for you to not blurt out, "Maybe if FI didn't give you $XXX every month he could afford to go"?  DON'T say that, of course, lol.  But, if it were me, I'd be having to bite my tongue a lot to not make matters worse.

PPs have great advice.  You can't control their actions, but you can control your responses and how their words/actions affect you.  Don't worry right now about the threats of "we won't come to/be in the wedding".  There is still a lot of time to go and, especially if they are the kind of people who say things without thinking, those are probably empty threats.

Other PPs may disagree with this, but I'd be rethinking having my FSIL in my WP.  Even if I didn't think she really meant it, accept her dropping out of it and then (nicely) not allow her back in if/when she changes her mind.  But that could cause another slew of drama and you know the family dynamics better than myself.  Or I'd just be secretly hoping she never asked to come back into the WP.

MesmrEwe

Thanks for the add-on info! 

1) When you first set boundaries and stop enabling behavior you ARE going to get push-back!  In this case, they're responding with "if then" mentality and taking it to an extreme!  It's o.k., distance yourselves and let them cool off!  Then, explain that many people are the priority for the wedding day and you want the maximum number of them to be able to be invited even if that means giving up a vacation.  Always ask "is this a hill to die on" because there will be some things like your FMIL might want some tablecloth that's been used at every family wedding since the 1800's to be used on your head table, that's a roll your eyes and "o.k.", that's far different than "if you don't ____ then ____" that you're mentioning though.  Happy though you aren't accepting financial assistance from them in the planning!

2) Pick up the book "Take Back Your Wedding; Managing the People Stress of Wedding Planning" - it's written by a former knottie and her Dad and went all the way to being on the Oprah show for it.  One of the main rules is "Blood talks to blood" when situations like this happen.  Boundaries are important because what you set now can have a long-term impact!  What happens when they want to be in the delivery room should you decide to have child(ren) of your own!?!  Are they going to "if you don't let us be there, your child doesn't exist" mentality...  Remember, you're teaching them how you two want to be treated and breaking old patterns/habits, it is going to come with push-back, but it's also on THEM if they choose to be there or not be there.

3) When it comes to the RD - imagine you've been jumped on by everyone here about asking her to cook for it!  She gets to be grumpy about that - just saying!  For what it's going to cost for the value of the food you'll buy at the grocery store, you can hire someone to make it for you and just go pick it up at the designated time (Grocery store deli, Sam's Club, local restaurant catering, KFC, Subway, Pizza Hut, etc.) and no one will have to lift a finger.  It's one thing to ask "Hey Mom, after the rehearsal can you stop at KFC to pick up the food?" is significantly different from "Hey FMIL, can you do all the cooking the days leading up before the wedding because we're too cheap to take everyone to dinner" The value of someone's time whether they're working or not is valuable.  This is why we point out on the DIY boards that DIY =/= Cost savings because often people forget about the value of their time and the nickels and dimes going into said DIY projects.  It'd be one thing if FMIL was a Chef at a Michelin Star rated restaurant, but it doesn't sound like that's the case (and many of my baker friends - when it came time for their own kids' weddings have said "Let's call up so'n'so who's IMO the best baker in the region to do your cake - I don't care what s/he charges, choose the cake of your dreams!" and after say "money well spent" to not have that one more detail to stress about)

GBCK

those boundries folks have mentioned may also include the 'not up for discussion' with them.

So, if FI is on the phone w/ them and "we won't be by on Wed but will be there for dinner on Saturday" is met with "Buuuuuttttt you see HER family more than us and we're Faaaaamily and it's not faaaaairrr" do that same thing I do with my small child and end it.
"I've told you the decision.  We're not discussing K's family.  We will See you Saturday.  So, how about them bears/change of subject"

And a refusal to change the subject gets the "gotta go, I'll talk to you some other time*click*" immediate disconnect.

Don't argue with them.  DOn't engage with the crzy.  don't discuss the 'fairness' of whose family you see.  Don't continue idiotic conversations that will go in circles.
ANd...consider professional counseling help for figuring out how to make those boundries, because it's really REALLY hard to do when you've grown up w/o them.

LivingtheDream

Thank you for your response! I will most definitely be ordering that book asap!

The if, then scenario is for sure the madness that we have been faced with. We have set clear boundaries and have not backed down on them at all.  FI and I are already mentally preparing for all upcoming push-back with the coming holidays and near future decisions we will make that will not be handled well. 

As of now I have not removed my FSIL as a BM.  Again, as mentioned this will bring more issues in the long run.  All she needs to do is show up, sober and dressed on the day of our wedding, if she chooses to miss all of the events along the way this will be her choice. If she requests to be removed again, I will grant her request.

As far as the RD, thank you for your insight! You definitely helped me see things from another angle. Our decision to have FMIL cook was in no way a financial decision, (in-fact it will most likely cost us more in the long run to have her cook).  The idea was that this was a way she could contribute something to the process since we are aware she cannot pay for the meal.  We can pay for the dinner or have my parents cover it if they would like. My intentions were to try to avoid taking that tradition away from the "Groom's Family".  But your points were so valid! I will be changing this discussion as soon as possible. I do not want to cause any more grief!

Though it may not appear that way based on this conversation, I am actually a very flexible personality and have been very open to opinions and suggestions from everyone.  Taking to heart those that I think will work for us and our day and excluding (politely) the ones that won't.  We will have to find another way to include the FMIL in the festivities sometime in the next year. 

Again, thank you for your insight!! It is greatly appreciated!

MesmrEwe said:

Thanks for the add-on info! 

1) When you first set boundaries and stop enabling behavior you ARE going to get push-back!  In this case, they're responding with "if then" mentality and taking it to an extreme!  It's o.k., distance yourselves and let them cool off!  Then, explain that many people are the priority for the wedding day and you want the maximum number of them to be able to be invited even if that means giving up a vacation.  Always ask "is this a hill to die on" because there will be some things like your FMIL might want some tablecloth that's been used at every family wedding since the 1800's to be used on your head table, that's a roll your eyes and "o.k.", that's far different than "if you don't ____ then ____" that you're mentioning though.  Happy though you aren't accepting financial assistance from them in the planning!

2) Pick up the book "Take Back Your Wedding; Managing the People Stress of Wedding Planning" - it's written by a former knottie and her Dad and went all the way to being on the Oprah show for it.  One of the main rules is "Blood talks to blood" when situations like this happen.  Boundaries are important because what you set now can have a long-term impact!  What happens when they want to be in the delivery room should you decide to have child(ren) of your own!?!  Are they going to "if you don't let us be there, your child doesn't exist" mentality...  Remember, you're teaching them how you two want to be treated and breaking old patterns/habits, it is going to come with push-back, but it's also on THEM if they choose to be there or not be there.

3) When it comes to the RD - imagine you've been jumped on by everyone here about asking her to cook for it!  She gets to be grumpy about that - just saying!  For what it's going to cost for the value of the food you'll buy at the grocery store, you can hire someone to make it for you and just go pick it up at the designated time (Grocery store deli, Sam's Club, local restaurant catering, KFC, Subway, Pizza Hut, etc.) and no one will have to lift a finger.  It's one thing to ask "Hey Mom, after the rehearsal can you stop at KFC to pick up the food?" is significantly different from "Hey FMIL, can you do all the cooking the days leading up before the wedding because we're too cheap to take everyone to dinner" The value of someone's time whether they're working or not is valuable.  This is why we point out on the DIY boards that DIY =/= Cost savings because often people forget about the value of their time and the nickels and dimes going into said DIY projects.  It'd be one thing if FMIL was a Chef at a Michelin Star rated restaurant, but it doesn't sound like that's the case (and many of my baker friends - when it came time for their own kids' weddings have said "Let's call up so'n'so who's IMO the best baker in the region to do your cake - I don't care what s/he charges, choose the cake of your dreams!" and after say "money well spent" to not have that one more detail to stress about)

LivingtheDream

Thank you for your response!

I have spent much time over the past couple of weeks biting my tongue until it bleeds to keep from saying things I know will increase the drama. My FSIL bombarded me with text messages to which I did not respond (except to tell her to speak with her brother in regards to the decision about the vacation, and one day to ask her to sit down and speak with us in person as the texts would not cease - she refused).  For something that has "noting to do with you" as I have been told repeatedly, I cannot fathom why I am being bombarded with messages.  Cest la vie! We will move forward with our heads held high and hope that they return from vacation refreshed and in better spirits. (They come home tomorrow)

As of right now I have kept my FSIL in the WP.  (Not that I am thrilled about it)  I am hoping she will get on board and enjoy this time with us.  If she chooses not to there is not much I can do. As long as she arrives, on time, sober and dressed on the day of our wedding I will be fine.  Her participation in any additional festivities is her choice. However, any further requests to be removed from the BP will granted and finalized.

short+sassy said:

Congratulations on your engagement!  Though I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you are now having with your FMIL and FSIL.

Soooo...your FMIL has at least some financial difficulties and is partially supported by her son.  Is apparently using her scarce money to go on vacation...but then is mad when her son, who uses some of his money every month for her living expenses, tells her he can't afford the vacation.

Is it hard for you to not blurt out, "Maybe if FI didn't give you $XXX every month he could afford to go"?  DON'T say that, of course, lol.  But, if it were me, I'd be having to bite my tongue a lot to not make matters worse.

PPs have great advice.  You can't control their actions, but you can control your responses and how their words/actions affect you.  Don't worry right now about the threats of "we won't come to/be in the wedding".  There is still a lot of time to go and, especially if they are the kind of people who say things without thinking, those are probably empty threats.

Other PPs may disagree with this, but I'd be rethinking having my FSIL in my WP.  Even if I didn't think she really meant it, accept her dropping out of it and then (nicely) not allow her back in if/when she changes her mind.  But that could cause another slew of drama and you know the family dynamics better than myself.  Or I'd just be secretly hoping she never asked to come back into the WP.

Jen4948

Knottie1469364641 said:

Without getting into the crazy details that make up this entire family situation I will give you the main issue... My FI proposed just 2 months ago.  We are very excited and planning a wedding for next year. My FI has only one sister and has always been close with his mother. I asked his sister to join the bridal party as a bridesmaid.  In the past 2 months any time my FI and I have made a decision, any decision that they do not agree with or does not fit in their "family" plan they become hostile and begin attacking us verbally.

My FI recently made a decision they do not agree with to abstain from a family vacation due to financial constraints. They have taken this decision as a direct attack on their family.  My FMIL called and left a VM telling us to remove her from the guest list to make room for people we really care about.  His sister asked that we remove her and her family from the wedding party.  I have ignored these requests as of right now because I feel they were made out of anger and I do not want to make the situation worse.

I don't know what to do... Do I leave them in or take them out? I can't imagine removing them, but how do I navigate making plans and handling them?

Our wedding is a year away and they are already behaving this way! I can't handle a whole year of this while planning what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of our lives.

Please help!

I'd continue to ignore the requests to be removed, and let your FI make any decisions about how he wants to handle his family. If they contact you directly with demands, refer them back to your FI. And if they attack you verbally, your FI has to enforce boundaries with them that they need to cease and desist from this immediately.

I agree with the advice above about not taking any money from them or letting them host any side events for you like rehearsal dinners.

LivingtheDream

Jen4948 said:

I'd continue to ignore the requests to be removed, and let your FI make any decisions about how he wants to handle his family. If they contact you directly with demands, refer them back to your FI. And if they attack you verbally, your FI has to enforce boundaries with them that they need to cease and desist from this immediately.

 I  agree with the advice above about not taking any money from them or letting them host any side events for you like rehearsal dinners.

Thank you for your response Jen!  After the responses I have received I gave it some hard thought and decided I will be removing any responsibility from his family asap. I am happy to have them all in attendance but will not require their assistance, financial or otherwise.

LivingtheDream

MesmrEwe said:

Thanks for the add-on info! 

1) When you first set boundaries and stop enabling behavior you ARE going to get push-back!  In this case, they're responding with "if then" mentality and taking it to an extreme!  It's o.k., distance yourselves and let them cool off!  Then, explain that many people are the priority for the wedding day and you want the maximum number of them to be able to be invited even if that means giving up a vacation.  Always ask "is this a hill to die on" because there will be some things like your FMIL might want some tablecloth that's been used at every family wedding since the 1800's to be used on your head table, that's a roll your eyes and "o.k.", that's far different than "if you don't ____ then ____" that you're mentioning though.  Happy though you aren't accepting financial assistance from them in the planning!

2) Pick up the book "Take Back Your Wedding; Managing the People Stress of Wedding Planning" - it's written by a former knottie and her Dad and went all the way to being on the Oprah show for it.  One of the main rules is "Blood talks to blood" when situations like this happen.  Boundaries are important because what you set now can have a long-term impact!  What happens when they want to be in the delivery room should you decide to have child(ren) of your own!?!  Are they going to "if you don't let us be there, your child doesn't exist" mentality...  Remember, you're teaching them how you two want to be treated and breaking old patterns/habits, it is going to come with push-back, but it's also on THEM if they choose to be there or not be there.

Some of the best advice I have ever been given! This book is amazing! Thank you so much for sharing.  Unfortunately our situation is still out of control!   Reading the book has really helped me re frame the events and help align my perspective so the situation does not send me over the edge. Hoping to gain some thicker skin and let it all roll off like water on a ducks back!