This is a sticky wicket

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,
Almost two months ago I got pregnant. My husband and I were absolutely thrilled to be having a baby. Shortly thereafter, I learned that he had been having an affair with another woman for the last five years. He told me he’d planned on leaving her when he learned I was pregnant but the level of his betrayal was too much, and we are divorcing now. I was excited to have a child with him, but now I feel that I should get an abortion. I’m not ready to raise a child in the midst of all this chaos, and I doubt he is either. The question is: Should I ask him before getting an abortion? I know he’d say no, because through the divorce process he’s repeatedly stressed his desire to keep custody of the future baby. Nonetheless, it’s not his body, and I think I should have the ultimate say. What’s morally right here?

—Secret Abortion

banana468

Well, what's morally right really depends on who you ask.

But is Prudie going to be the person who gives the LW peace of mind?   That needs to come from a place that she finds for herself.   That she's writing the letter says that she's already conflicted about her decision.  

MissKittyDanger

No one can tell you what the best decision is in this case

ShesSoCold

Morally? Not up to anyone else to decide.

But it's LWer's body and the marriage is over. She doesn't need to be considering his feelings or opinions any more.

kimmiinthemitten

ShesSoCold said:

Morally? Not up to anyone else to decide.

But it's LWer's body and the marriage is over. She doesn't need to be considering his feelings or opinions any more.

This.

VarunaTT

More than likely, she can't actually get a divorce while pregnant either.  That seems a cold way of looking at it, but is she prepared to be tied to this man for the rest of her life after this now?

Also, five years?!

NOLABridesmaid

Yes, everyone's morals are different, and it is her body to do with as she pleases. However, I don't understand blaming a baby for his/her stupid dad. No one would ever be born, then.

DrillSergeantCat

NOLABridesmaid said:

Yes, everyone's morals are different, and it is her body to do with as she pleases. However, I don't understand blaming a baby for his/her stupid dad. No one would ever be born, then.

I don't see that she's blaming the baby. She just doesn't want to raise a baby alone and like @VarunaTT mentioned, she may not be able to get a divorce while pregnant. While I wouldn't get an abortion for this reason, if she doesn't feel like she can do, she shouldn't have to act as an incubator for her soon-to-be-ex-husband and his mistress.

NOLABridesmaid

 Blame is probably the wrong word. I will go with penalize instead.

The baby is being penalized for her husband's selfish decisions.

Y'all already know I how feel about these things, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to the OG's.:)

[Deleted User]

Well clearly the only person who can answer this is her. But I would question what her opinion would be if they were still married. Let's assume there was no affair, she still got pregnant and for whatever reason still wanted an abortion. How much weight would she put on his opinion? It's a bit different because they'd still be raising the child as a couple, but two important facts remain the same: he's the father and it's her body. I would take whatever she would think in that situation and apply it her current one. 

charlotte989875

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

charlotte989875

Andplusalso...

Her body, her choice. 

DrillSergeantCat

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

Several states don't allow it. 

VarunaTT

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

DrillSergeantCat

VarunaTT said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

WHen I got divorced 2 years ago, that was one of the points in the decree. 

MissKittyDanger

DrillSergeantCat said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

Several states don't allow it. 

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

DrillSergeantCat

MissKittyDanger said:

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

We just had our first new women's clinic that offers abortions open last week. It's one of only 3 in our state. "Oklahoma is one of 18 states considered extremely hostile to abortion, according to the Pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. Gov. Mary Fallin passing 20 different anti-abortion laws since taking office." 

MissKittyDanger

DrillSergeantCat said:

MissKittyDanger said:

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

We just had our first new women's clinic that offers abortions open last week. It's one of only 3 in our state. "Oklahoma is one of 18 states considered extremely hostile to abortion, according to the Pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. Gov. Mary Fallin passing 20 different anti-abortion laws since taking office." 

Well at least there is one.
I saw on the show that some places make you see the ultrasound and/or hear the heart beat. Idk where that was but I'm going to guess probably southern area - "bible belt" kind of area

DrillSergeantCat

MissKittyDanger said:

Well at least there is one.
I saw on the show that some places make you see the ultrasound and/or hear the heart beat. Idk where that was but I'm going to guess probably southern area - "bible belt" kind of area

We don't require that (I don't think) but we do require counseling and a 24 hour waiting period.

kylexo

MissKittyDanger said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

MissKittyDanger said:

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

We just had our first new women's clinic that offers abortions open last week. It's one of only 3 in our state. "Oklahoma is one of 18 states considered extremely hostile to abortion, according to the Pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. Gov. Mary Fallin passing 20 different anti-abortion laws since taking office." 

Well at least there is one.
I saw on the show that some places make you see the ultrasound and/or hear the heart beat. Idk where that was but I'm going to guess probably southern area - "bible belt" kind of area

Really, the biggest problem with the laws in this country is that they disproportionately effect poor women, making it difficult or impossible for them to get a safe, legal medical procedure done, forcing poor women to have unwanted children or to take their health into their own hands, perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

Everyone should have access and do what is right for them and their situation, with the advice of their dr. Wealthy and middle class women can travel, take time off work for waiting periods, etc. Poor women don't have these luxuries and it's awful.

MissKittyDanger

kylexo said:

MissKittyDanger said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

MissKittyDanger said:

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

We just had our first new women's clinic that offers abortions open last week. It's one of only 3 in our state. "Oklahoma is one of 18 states considered extremely hostile to abortion, according to the Pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. Gov. Mary Fallin passing 20 different anti-abortion laws since taking office." 

Well at least there is one.
I saw on the show that some places make you see the ultrasound and/or hear the heart beat. Idk where that was but I'm going to guess probably southern area - "bible belt" kind of area

Really, the biggest problem with the laws in this country is that they disproportionately effect poor women, making it difficult or impossible for them to get a safe, legal medical procedure done, forcing poor women to have unwanted children or to take their health into their own hands, perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

Everyone should have access and do what is right for them and their situation, with the advice of their dr. Wealthy and middle class women can travel, take time off work for waiting periods, etc. Poor women don't have these luxuries and it's awful.

I completely agree! Some states have horrible laws and it's awful. Have you seen the episode of John Oliver about it? If not, look it up online.

In Canada, as long as you're under a certain amount of time you can get it done. There's also the pill version {which is less invasive but I've heard from 2 friends of mine that it didn't work so idk}

*Barbie*

I think she needs to make the best choice for her and leave his feelings out of it. He gave up any right to an opinion when he had a 5 year long affair with another person. 
I don't know what I would do in her situation - I can completely understand that she doesn't want to continue any sort of relationship with this man, and doesn't feel that it would be fair to bring a baby into the middle of this. 


I'm curious how long LW and her husband were married/together - i.e. when did his affair start in relation to his relationship/marriage to wife. 

TrixieJess

MissKittyDanger said:

kylexo said:

MissKittyDanger said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

MissKittyDanger said:

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

We just had our first new women's clinic that offers abortions open last week. It's one of only 3 in our state. "Oklahoma is one of 18 states considered extremely hostile to abortion, according to the Pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. Gov. Mary Fallin passing 20 different anti-abortion laws since taking office." 

Well at least there is one.
I saw on the show that some places make you see the ultrasound and/or hear the heart beat. Idk where that was but I'm going to guess probably southern area - "bible belt" kind of area

Really, the biggest problem with the laws in this country is that they disproportionately effect poor women, making it difficult or impossible for them to get a safe, legal medical procedure done, forcing poor women to have unwanted children or to take their health into their own hands, perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

Everyone should have access and do what is right for them and their situation, with the advice of their dr. Wealthy and middle class women can travel, take time off work for waiting periods, etc. Poor women don't have these luxuries and it's awful.

I completely agree! Some states have horrible laws and it's awful. Have you seen the episode of John Oliver about it? If not, look it up online.

In Canada, as long as you're under a certain amount of time you can get it done. There's also the pill version {which is less invasive but I've heard from 2 friends of mine that it didn't work so idk}

It depends how far along they were. It has to be taken under 12 weeks. Most doctors I know will only prescribe it under 10. 

Surgical abortions are easier to access up here, plus they are covered under the provincial health plans. 

However, before abortion was legalised in 1988, you had to have your husband's permission and go before a board at the hospital to gain an abortion. So, we've come a long way in a short time. 

drunkenwitch

He lost his right to have a say in this decision.  If this is what she truly wants, she is under no obligation to tell him. 

charlotte989875

kylexo said:

MissKittyDanger said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

MissKittyDanger said:

American abortion laws concern me I didn't realize how it was until I watched "Last Week With John Oliver" and it just breaks my heart how some places are.

We just had our first new women's clinic that offers abortions open last week. It's one of only 3 in our state. "Oklahoma is one of 18 states considered extremely hostile to abortion, according to the Pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. Gov. Mary Fallin passing 20 different anti-abortion laws since taking office." 

Well at least there is one.
I saw on the show that some places make you see the ultrasound and/or hear the heart beat. Idk where that was but I'm going to guess probably southern area - "bible belt" kind of area

Really, the biggest problem with the laws in this country is that they disproportionately effect poor women, making it difficult or impossible for them to get a safe, legal medical procedure done, forcing poor women to have unwanted children or to take their health into their own hands, perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

Everyone should have access and do what is right for them and their situation, with the advice of their dr. Wealthy and middle class women can travel, take time off work for waiting periods, etc. Poor women don't have these luxuries and it's awful.

The notorious, wise, and wonderful RBG once said..

"There’s a sorry situation in the United States, which is essentially that poor women don’t have choice. Women of means do. They will, always. Let’s assume Roe v. Wade were overruled and we were going back to each state for itself, well, any woman who could travel from her home state to a state that provides access to abortion, and those states never go back to old ways … So if you can afford a plane ticket, a train ticket or even a bus ticket you can control your own destiny but if you’re locked into your native state then maybe you can’t. That we have one law for women of means and another for poor women is not a satisfactory situation."

SP29

VarunaTT said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

REALLY!?!? This baffles me. Mostly because I don't get it. What does marriage have to do with having a baby?

As for the LW, not something I would personally do, but I agree that her husband forfeited his right to an opinion when he broke his marriage vows.

kimmiinthemitten

SP29 said:

VarunaTT said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

REALLY!?!? This baffles me. Mostly because I don't get it. What does marriage have to do with having a baby?

As for the LW, not something I would personally do, but I agree that her husband forfeited his right to an opinion when he broke his marriage vows.

In Michigan if you're still legally married and give birth the husband is named on the birth certificate regardless if they're the father or not. There was a recent push to change this after a case made it to the state Supreme Court in which the biological father was refused visitation and the then husband was forced to pay child support. I can't remember if anything came of it though. 

OurWildKingdom

kimmiinthemitten said:

SP29 said:

VarunaTT said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

REALLY!?!? This baffles me. Mostly because I don't get it. What does marriage have to do with having a baby?

As for the LW, not something I would personally do, but I agree that her husband forfeited his right to an opinion when he broke his marriage vows.

In Michigan if you're still legally married and give birth the husband is named on the birth certificate regardless if they're the father or not. There was a recent push to change this after a case made it to the state Supreme Court in which the biological father was refused visitation and the then husband was forced to pay child support. I can't remember if anything came of it though. 

Same in Ohio.

madamerwin

SP29 said:

VarunaTT said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

REALLY!?!? This baffles me. Mostly because I don't get it. What does marriage have to do with having a baby?

As for the LW, not something I would personally do, but I agree that her husband forfeited his right to an opinion when he broke his marriage vows.

I'm with you here. This makes NO sense to me. WHY would you not be allowed to divorce if you're pregnant???

charlotte989875

madamerwin said:

SP29 said:

VarunaTT said:

charlotte989875 said:

Why wouldn't she be able to get a divorce while pregnant? If papers have been filed and things are moving forward why would a pregnancy stop that?

It depends on your state.  The attorney will ask in the court hearing (or in your affidavit if that's the route you can take) if the woman is pregnant.  If the answer is yes, the divorce can't happen.

This is regardless of whether the biological father is the woman's husband or not.  

REALLY!?!? This baffles me. Mostly because I don't get it. What does marriage have to do with having a baby?

As for the LW, not something I would personally do, but I agree that her husband forfeited his right to an opinion when he broke his marriage vows.

I'm with you here. This makes NO sense to me. WHY would you not be allowed to divorce if you're pregnant???

From what I read it has to do with child support payments and adjustment fees if divorce decrees need to be amended after the child is born. In other words, total bs.