There has to be an in-between here?

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence, 

My boyfriend and I have dated for a year now and are now considering moving in together. He’s the sole tenant on the lease at his four-bedroom, rent-controlled place, where he’s lived for the last 10 years with a rotating cast of different roommates. As a result, the rent is unbelievably low. He recently told his current roommates that he wants them to leave so we could move in together. They complained, saying that they could not afford to rent elsewhere in the area at the current market rate. They’re artists and teachers, mostly, but they earn too much to qualify for housing assistance. My boyfriend said that either they could move out, or he’d cancel the month-to-month lease. Right now they’re at a standstill. When I mentioned the dilemma to my friend, she said it was “graceless” to try to kick out three people because my boyfriend and I wanted to start a new life together “on the cheap.” Who’s right here? We can definitely afford to rent at the market rate but he has lived here for 10 years now.

—Graceless

MissKittyDanger

I'm wondering why roomies HAVE to leave? I think they should just attempt living together for a bit so the roomies can save up

ShesSoCold

Well, friend sucks, #1. But did boyfriend tell these people to move out like, immediately or was it a "hey, you're going to need to look for a new place to live in the next several months"?

If there's no lease agreement between the BF and the RMs, technically he can do what he wants but he should give these people time. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to live with your SO without roommates.

ETA: So if friend was implying that LW and BF should get a different place, that won't help anyone. They'll be paying more rent and the roommates will still be out a place to live and/or have to sign a lease themselves, assuming at market price.

DrillSergeantCat

I totally understand not wanting to live with your SO and all his roomies. On the other hand, it's not really their responsibility to ensure they have an apartment. On the third hand, do these two really need a 4br apartment? Could they move and sublet it to the other three and allow them to find a new 4th roommate? So many variables.

scrunchythief

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

ShesSoCold

scrunchythief said:

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

If what I learned from Friends is correct, NY rent, by law, cannot increase for the same tentant. So If dude rented this apartment for $15 in 1940, the landlord cannot increase his rent. Ever. If dude moves out, landlord can rent to a new guy for whatever he wants.

scrunchythief

ShesSoCold said:

scrunchythief said:

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

If what I learned from Friends is correct, NY rent, by law, cannot increase for the same tentant. So If dude rented this apartment for $15 in 1940, the landlord cannot increase his rent. Ever. If dude moves out, landlord can rent to a new guy for whatever he wants.

Dang, is that all NY or just the city?  If the whole state, I might need to move north. I'm in PA, and the fact that my landlords only raise the rent $25/month each year is fantastic.

OliveOilsMom

scrunchythief said:

ShesSoCold said:

scrunchythief said:

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

If what I learned from Friends is correct, NY rent, by law, cannot increase for the same tentant. So If dude rented this apartment for $15 in 1940, the landlord cannot increase his rent. Ever. If dude moves out, landlord can rent to a new guy for whatever he wants.

Dang, is that all NY or just the city?  If the whole state, I might need to move north. I'm in PA, and the fact that my landlords only raise the rent $25/month each year is fantastic.

Similar to DC too.  My great aunt lived in rent controlled housing.  As the older, rent controlled, tenants were passing away, they started bringing in younger residents who they could charge higher rates to.  After my aunt passed, they pressured my family to move all her things out ASAP or they were going to jack the rent up to what they charged everyone else.  About 3 times what aunt paid.  They were able to justify it since aunt passed and it was her estate's apartment now.

ILoveBeachMusic

ShesSoCold said:

scrunchythief said:

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

If what I learned from Friends is correct, NY rent, by law, cannot increase for the same tentant. So If dude rented this apartment for $15 in 1940, the landlord cannot increase his rent. Ever. If dude moves out, landlord can rent to a new guy for whatever he wants.

I don't think all places are rent controlled. Only some of them are and I have no idea how it is determined as to who is and who isn't.

OurWildKingdom

MissKittyDanger said:

I'm wondering why roomies HAVE to leave? I think they should just attempt living together for a bit so the roomies can save up

Sounds like the best plan to me. But then again, my philosophy is "the more, the merrier," and I don't mind having a few extra people around.

*Barbie*

I think it would be reasonable for him to give the roommates a window to find new places/move out  - maybe 2-3 months? He's being a little bit of a dick if he's all "move out now," but as the sole tenant, it sounds like it's his right to do that. 

I'm curious what LW's status is - like, is her lease up next week and she needs to decide now, or does she have some time? Is it possible for her to move in now and maybe put some of their stuff in storage until roommates move out?

I don't fully understand rent controlled apartments, but if i learned anything from Sex and the City, if you have one in a major metro area, you never move out. (Unless you have an investment banker FI who is going to buy you a penthouse with a $50K shoe closet.)

levioosa

Maybe I'm a bitch, but I would not feel bad about asking them to leave.  And it doesn't matter to me if there are two bedrooms, or five.  I like my space, I've had too many roommates in the past, and privacy is awesome.  However, there's a huge difference between "hey guys, I'm making some life changes, so I'll need you out in the next 2-3 months," and "I'm making some life changes, I want you out by the end of next week."  Two-three months = reasonable and considerate.  End of next week? You're a dick. 

I also feel like you have to realize as an adult renting with friends, that at some point, someone is going to make a major life change and you'll have to adjust accordingly.  Whether it's a new baby, a marriage, or just the desire to live alone as an adult, it's pretty unlikely that you'll remain living with all of your buddies forever.    

YogaSandy

ShesSoCold said:

scrunchythief said:

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

If what I learned from Friends is correct, NY rent, by law, cannot increase for the same tentant. So If dude rented this apartment for $15 in 1940, the landlord cannot increase his rent. Ever. If dude moves out, landlord can rent to a new guy for whatever he wants.

That's exactly where I learned about rent control too. 

MesmrEwe

Well - IMO - she moves in and saves her money with the roommates, saves up coin, and calls it good financial planning because when it comes time to purchase a house she can pay cash and no mortgage...   Win-win!!!  I wouldn't get worked up about the roommates...

As for the FI, IMO, he's within his rights to decide he's no longer renting, but it's kind of **itty to say "get out" for people who are being otherwise great renters.  I'm guessing things would sort themselves out on their own if they got married and had kids...

kahluakoala

levioosa said:

Maybe I'm a bitch, but I would not feel bad about asking them to leave.  And it doesn't matter to me if there are two bedrooms, or five.  I like my space, I've had too many roommates in the past, and privacy is awesome.  However, there's a huge difference between "hey guys, I'm making some life changes, so I'll need you out in the next 2-3 months," and "I'm making some life changes, I want you out by the end of next week."  Two-three months = reasonable and considerate.  End of next week? You're a dick. 

I also feel like you have to realize as an adult renting with friends, that at some point, someone is going to make a major life change and you'll have to adjust accordingly.  Whether it's a new baby, a marriage, or just the desire to live alone as an adult, it's pretty unlikely that you'll remain living with all of your buddies forever.    

This. If the BF is a sole leasee, he can do whatever he wants within reason (I think 30 days is usually the law). Saying something like, "at the end of next month you need to move out" is fine considering the tenants signed a month-to-month lease. Agreed, I don't care how many bedrooms there are, he's been shouldering the liability for the apartment as the sole leasee for 10 years and now he's well within his rights to BE a landlord and make the best decision for him. If everyone was on the lease it would be a different story. No way in hell would I move in my BF and a bunch of roomies. 

TheMostHappy15

Okay I just posted about this letter in a thread over in Chit Chat but I had to come over here and find it because I was so incensed by Prudie's advice on this one! She said the BF was a jerk because he was basically screwing people who need cheap rent, upending their lives to move his girlfriend into the house when they didn't even need four bedrooms anyway... I'm sorry but 1) if you are an adult and not on the lease/on a month-to-month lease you are foolish if you aren't preparing for the likelihood this living arrangement could end at any time and 2) it is perfectly reasonable to want to stop living with roommates when your SO moves in (I would never agree to live with my SO + roommates) whether you "need' that much space or not! Is everyone under obligation to rent out every unoccupied bedroom in a home they own to someone who could use a cheap place to stay now? 

ShesSoCold

TheMostHappy15 said:

Okay I just posted about this letter in a thread over in Chit Chat but I had to come over here and find it because I was so incensed by Prudie's advice on this one! She said the BF was a jerk because he was basically screwing people who need cheap rent, upending their lives to move his girlfriend into the house when they didn't even need four bedrooms anyway... I'm sorry but 1) if you are an adult and not on the lease/on a month-to-month lease you are foolish if you aren't preparing for the likelihood this living arrangement could end at any time and 2) it is perfectly reasonable to want to stop living with roommates when your SO moves in (I would never agree to live with my SO + roommates) whether you "need' that much space or not! Is everyone under obligation to rent out every unoccupied bedroom in a home they own to someone who could use a cheap place to stay now? 

Yeah that's shitty. Most people have more than they "need". Am I under some sort of obligation to open the bar in my basement to everyone simply because it's a bar and it exists? What about the extra garage space? Rent it out? I currently have two couches and a few chairs that are not occupied. Am I required to open a Chair, Lunch, Dinner (please tell me someone will get this)?

InLoveInQueens

scrunchythief said:

ShesSoCold said:

scrunchythief said:

I don't know anything about how rent controlled apartments work, but if the boyfriend can afford a lease at market rate, how is he still able to live in rent controlled housing?  And if he can afford it, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that assistance, since I wouldn't need it.

If what I learned from Friends is correct, NY rent, by law, cannot increase for the same tentant. So If dude rented this apartment for $15 in 1940, the landlord cannot increase his rent. Ever. If dude moves out, landlord can rent to a new guy for whatever he wants.

Dang, is that all NY or just the city?  If the whole state, I might need to move north. I'm in PA, and the fact that my landlords only raise the rent $25/month each year is fantastic.

Rent control isn't a thing anymore, it's an older thing that was phased out and the only people it applies to are relatives of people who had previously rent controlled apartments. Now apartments in buildings with more than 6 (I think) units can be rent stabilized, which means the rent can only increase a certain percentage every year, I believe last year it was 2% for a 1 year lease and 3.75% for a 2 year lease.

For rent stabilized units they also can increase the "legal rent" over the "preferential rent", when a tenant leaves the landlord has the option to raise the rent a certain amount, though they will usually charge new tenants the lower preferential rent, once the legal rent hits a certain amount the unit is no longer rent stabilized and can be rented for whatever the landlord wants with no limits on raising the rent on lease renewals.

There are still people who find loopholes to get into previously rent controlled apartments, but you won't find a rent controlled apartment unless you've got an old relative who has a unit and you get in before they die/leave. My best guess is OP means rent stabilized or her boyfriend got the apartment from a relative and if he leaves the unit goes to market rent, if it's in NYC.

julieanne912

Rent control also exists in San Francisco.  

mrsconn23

I was thinking about this and let's say this was a 4 bedroom house instead that he'd purchased in Silicon Valley OR it was his parent's/grandparent's home purchased before the RE prices got completely out of control.   And the rest of the situation was still all the same...I wonder what the friend/Prudie would have to say about that?  I mean, people are paying $800/mo to live in closets in SF.  

I think the GF can move in before the friends move out, but I don't think her BF is wrong for giving a deadline to the roommates to move out.  Especially if they are there on a month-to-month basis. 

ei34

I've lived in NYC my whole life, and since moving out of my parents' house (which they own), I've always lived in rent-stabilized apartments.  I'll bet the BF got the apt from an elderly relative or something, if the rent is "unbelievably low".  But it's like Renting 101 to get your name on the lease when you move into a place if you want any power or say.  If the friends tried and were told no, they had to know something like this could happen someday.  If he's a decent guy he'll give them 30-60 days to find a new place.
  When my H and I decided to live together, it was a big "next step" move, and we weren't looking to include roommates.  I think it's more than fair that they want to live alone.

charlotte989875

eileenrob said:

I've lived in NYC my whole life, and since moving out of my parents' house (which they own), I've always lived in rent-stabilized apartments.  I'll bet the BF got the apt from an elderly relative or something, if the rent is "unbelievably low".  But it's like Renting 101 to get your name on the lease when you move into a place if you want any power or say.  If the friends tried and were told no, they had to know something like this could happen someday.  If he's a decent guy he'll give them 30-60 days to find a new place.
  When my H and I decided to live together, it was a big "next step" move, and we weren't looking to include roommates.  I think it's more than fair that they want to live alone.

I agree with all of this. Maybe because my first rental experience was in NYC, and our lease was like 50 pages long, but if you're not on the lease you have little to no recourse if you want the landlord to fix something for you, if you want to exercise any tenant's rights, or any protections from having the person who does hold the lease ask you to move out (or the landlord/property owner for that matter). 

short+sassy

Landlady here.  He is essentially the landlord to his roomies.  Whether they are friends or otherwise.  Assuming there is not a longer lease in place, everyone is on a month-to-month status and he is required to give them a 30-day notice (in writing) if he wants them to leave.  Some areas may require a 60-day notice for month-to-month tenants.

That's the deal.  That's the way it works.  End of story.  I'm sure they are complaining they are losing their sweet deal.  Tough s**t.  Life happens.  Cheap ride is over and now they are just being ungrateful for the opportunity they had while it lasted.

I would also bet dollars to doughnuts that it isn't that they can't afford another place, especially if they all stay together, they probably just can't afford another place that is as convenient/desirable a neighborhood.