Happy US election day!!

TrixieJess

kimmiinthemitten said:

lyndausvi said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:

There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant.   Labor?  If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.    

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there.  Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

I'm curious of what they will pay in Mexico.    I'm willing to bet it will be less than $10/hr.

That said, there is no way the UAW would allow a $10 per hour rates at one of their plants.     So while their might be a force willing to work for that little, it's never going to happen, at least not within the auto industry.

Sorry, if I didn't articulate that correctly.  I was trying to say is that where there is space, there is a lack of people and where there are people there tends to be a lack of space.  There is not a place left in Michigan that could meet both needs.  And I feel like the same is likely true in KC, Spartanburg and Tuscaloosa.

I'm sure it's not impossible here, but no, the UAW won't approve $10/hour (nor should they IMO) and when you're building the Focus, naturally you're going where labor is the cheapest.  Sadly, the going rate in Queretaro is about $3.00/hour.  And without those jobs, there are almost none.

I guess my overall point was to focus on the big picture.  The plants in Mexico are filled with things made and sold here first.  So the 3,000 jobs they employ there could easily be supporting another 3,000 jobs here.

I also think it's ironic that no one cries American jobs when Chrysler builds in Ontario.  I'm shipping up there this week.

Yep, they just built a new plant up here. Labour isn't cheap either, however, tax incentives and corporate tax breaks are. 

DrillSergeantCat

kimmiinthemitten said:

Sorry, if I didn't articulate that correctly.  I was trying to say is that where there is space, there is a lack of people and where there are people there tends to be a lack of space.  There is not a place left in Michigan that could meet both needs.  And I feel like the same is likely true in KC, Spartanburg and Tuscaloosa.

I'm sure it's not impossible here, but no, the UAW won't approve $10/hour (nor should they IMO) and when you're building the Focus, naturally you're going where labor is the cheapest.  Sadly, the going rate in Queretaro is about $3.00/hour.  And without those jobs, there are almost none.

I guess my overall point was to focus on the big picture.  The plants in Mexico are filled with things made and sold here first.  So the 3,000 jobs they employ there could easily be supporting another 3,000 jobs here.

I also think it's ironic that no one cries American jobs when Chrysler builds in Ontario.  I'm shipping up there this week.

I honestly get irritated when people talk about "American" cars. They don't really exist like they used to. The top 5 most American made cars are all Japanese. 

kimmiinthemitten

short+sassy said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

lyndausvi said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

lyndausvi said:

There are plenty of places in middle American for that size plant.   Labor?  If the pay was good enough it would be a "if you build it they will come" scenario.    

I think it's to say that labor costs and taxes are the real reason it's down there.  Not space.

Oklahoma has plenty of space AND a workforce willing to work for $10/hr.

I'm curious of what they will pay in Mexico.    I'm willing to bet it will be less than $10/hr.

That said, there is no way the UAW would allow a $10 per hour rates at one of their plants.     So while their might be a force willing to work for that little, it's never going to happen, at least not within the auto industry.

Sorry, if I didn't articulate that correctly.  I was trying to say is that where there is space, there is a lack of people and where there are people there tends to be a lack of space.  There is not a place left in Michigan that could meet both needs.  And I feel like the same is likely true in KC, Spartanburg and Tuscaloosa.

I'm sure it's not impossible here, but no, the UAW won't approve $10/hour (nor should they IMO) and when you're building the Focus, naturally you're going where labor is the cheapest.  Sadly, the going rate in Queretaro is about $3.00/hour.  And without those jobs, there are almost none.

I guess my overall point was to focus on the big picture.  The plants in Mexico are filled with things made and sold here first.  So the 3,000 jobs they employ there could easily be supporting another 3,000 jobs here.

I also think it's ironic that no one cries American jobs when Chrysler builds in Ontario.  I'm shipping up there this week.

I was a business major in college.  I remember a lesson where they took the retail MSRP for an "American made" car and broke down by dollar amount all the other countries that were involved in making that car.  The factory might have been in the U.S., but many of the parts came from a variety of countries all over the world.  Even right down to the advertising campaign for the car being outsourced to a firm in Ireland.

My other fave was being given a list of ten large and very well known companies.  And then the students wrote in which countries they actually hail from.  I think I got 4/10 correct, lol. 

Sadly, it is true that a lot of parts are not made here.  Most parts aren't actually manufactured by the automakers but by a supplier.  But the Big 3 does hire a ton of people who aren't directly involved in manufacturing and there is still a ton made here.  My customers make everything from exhaust systems to interiors, to the mechanisms that allow you to open your door, to the body frame components.

In Detroit, you work for the Big 3, a supplier, or your business is supplemented by them somehow.

kimmiinthemitten

DrillSergeantCat said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

Sorry, if I didn't articulate that correctly.  I was trying to say is that where there is space, there is a lack of people and where there are people there tends to be a lack of space.  There is not a place left in Michigan that could meet both needs.  And I feel like the same is likely true in KC, Spartanburg and Tuscaloosa.

I'm sure it's not impossible here, but no, the UAW won't approve $10/hour (nor should they IMO) and when you're building the Focus, naturally you're going where labor is the cheapest.  Sadly, the going rate in Queretaro is about $3.00/hour.  And without those jobs, there are almost none.

I guess my overall point was to focus on the big picture.  The plants in Mexico are filled with things made and sold here first.  So the 3,000 jobs they employ there could easily be supporting another 3,000 jobs here.

I also think it's ironic that no one cries American jobs when Chrysler builds in Ontario.  I'm shipping up there this week.

I honestly get irritated when people talk about "American" cars. They don't really exist like they used to. The top 5 most American made cars are all Japanese. 

There are a lot of reasons behind this though.  Primarily, foreign automakers receive tax incentives to move here whereas the legacy manufacturers don't.  Those incentives allow them more freedom to manufacture locally and remain in the same price point.  Also, some parts are listed based on the manufacturers country of origin.  A Thai company does body stamping, a German company makes consoles, a Spanish company makes interiors, but they are actually produced here.

Secondly, to my last post, there is a lot that goes into a car that can't be labeled.  The people designing, creating and engineering the cars, billing and paying suppliers etc are here for American labels. They are not here for the foreign cars, so their car may have more american "parts" but employed fewer Americans in building it.

kimmiinthemitten

@TrixieJess and you guys are way easier to ship into!

TrixieJess

kimmiinthemitten said:

@TrixieJess and you guys are way easier to ship into!

Yep. The red tape and customs to ship to the States is crazy! (in manufacturing).

DrillSergeantCat

kimmiinthemitten said:

There are a lot of reasons behind this though.  Primarily, foreign automakers receive tax incentives to move here whereas the legacy manufacturers don't.  Those incentives allow them more freedom to manufacture locally and remain in the same price point.  Also, some parts are listed based on the manufacturers country of origin.  A Thai company does body stamping, a German company makes consoles, a Spanish company makes interiors, but they are actually produced here.

Secondly, to my last post, there is a lot that goes into a car that can't be labeled.  The people designing, creating and engineering the cars, billing and paying suppliers etc are here for American labels. They are not here for the foreign cars, so their car may have more american "parts" but employed fewer Americans in building it.

Yes, my point though is that people get all upset about not buying an American car when my Nissan was assembled in Tennessee and your Chevrolet was assembled in Canada. Globalization has kind of erased the need to be pissed about that. 

This is the article regarding this year's AMI. https://www.cars.com/articles/the-2016-carscom-american-made-index-1420684865874/

kimmiinthemitten

@TrixieJess - try shipping into Mexico.  I'll take me London, OT plants all day!

@DrillSergeantCat I guess I overworded what I was trying to say.  Yes, the parts may be more American in a Toyota than a Ford, but the number of American workers who worked on that Ford is way more than that of the Toyota.  People>Parts.  That's why using the parts only to judge the American-ness of a product isn't a fair analysis.

TrixieJess

Oh hell no @kimmiinthemitten, I used to work for a plant that shipped across NA, and Mexico was one of the places we shipped. Nope, nope, nope. Not enough nope. Too much hoop jumping and paperwork. 

Viczaesar

CMGragain said:

Look, ladies, this is the United States of America.  We have been having elections  since 1789.  Sometimes the elected candidate has been historically great.  Sometimes he has been dishonest, corrupt, and incompetent.  The country has survived.  We have seen many changes over the centuries, mostly for the better.
This is not Iran.  We do not have riots in the streets when one party wins over another.  Everybody just calms down and gets down to the business of being American citizens.
This is not Czarist Russia.  Our president does not have unlimited power.  Mr. Trump was elected in one of the closest elections ever in the history of this country.  He knows this.  He is very well aware of how many people dislike him.  He is going to need to be very careful, and very competent.
I, personally did not vote for Mr. Trump.  I am not happy with the election results, but it is how our country works.  Since Mr. Trump has won the election, we should all pray that he has the strength and good sense to serve as President of the United States for the next four years.  God Bless America.

PS.  Google Theodore Roosevelt and see how many parallels there are!  Nobody thought he would ever be President, either!

This is privilege speaking.

levioosa

So my post was removed for TOS violation. 

That's cool I guess. Someone can continually post racist bullshit, straight up say the N word, and just generally be narcissistic and insufferable, but call it out and they run to the mods and have a post removed. Right. 

kimmiinthemitten

levioosa said:

So my post was removed for TOS violation. 

That's cool I guess. Someone can continually post racist bullshit, straight up say the N word, and just generally be narcissistic and insufferable, but call it out and they run to the mods and have a post removed. Right. 

America may not be Czarist Russia, but sometimes TK sure can be.  

But it's okay, don't worry.  It's good practice for when libel laws are expanded so President Trump can sue newspapers who say bad things about him, and we can sue people on internet boards who do the same.  </sarcasm>

lovegood90

levioosa said:

So my post was removed for TOS violation. 

That's cool I guess. Someone can continually post racist bullshit, straight up say the N word, and just generally be narcissistic and insufferable, but call it out and they run to the mods and have a post removed. Right. 

Don't worry, CMG is the Donald Trump of the boards - not only spewing racism and sexism, but also censoring differing opinions as she's most likely the one who complained.

This will probably get removed too, which just further proves my point. Like Hillary said though, we will prevail

lovesclimbing

lovegood90 said:

levioosa said:

So my post was removed for TOS violation. 

That's cool I guess. Someone can continually post racist bullshit, straight up say the N word, and just generally be narcissistic and insufferable, but call it out and they run to the mods and have a post removed. Right. 

Don't worry, CMG is the Donald Trump of the boards - not only spewing racism and sexism, but also censoring differing opinions as she's most likely the one who complained.

This will probably get removed too, which just further proves my point. Like Hillary said though, we will prevail

I don't necessarily agree with everything Cmg posts, but this is kind of absurd. Do you really think the mods are "censoring" everyone but her? I didn't see the particular post in question, but I've certainly reported (and had posts removed) from a few regs who posted things that were against TOS. Everyone should be held to the same standards, and everyone should be following the TOS.