13 Reasons Why

MissKittyDanger

DrillSergeantCat said:

I'm on episode 13 now and to say I'm pissed is an understatement.

Curious on your 'pissed' reaction

MissKittyDanger

So finally watched the last 3 eps .... I held off knowing what was gonna happen and didn't entirely want to finish it {yet at the same time I wanted to binge watch it ...}

Hannah's suicide scene was .... well it was well done but the cutting part was odd. I'm not familiar with veins, etc, but the squirting blood made me wonder why. Did she just happen to cut into a vein? Did she not hit a tendon? She was pretty able to do the other wrist, and I've heard that it's not easy feat to do both wrists because of cutting tendons.



Anyways, I loved Clay's speech at the end about how Hannah died thinking no one cared. I love his character's progression, despite how I STILL hate his tape {hated in the book, hated in the show}


Curiosity peeks - who do you guys think season 2 will be about? One of my friends and I think Alex.


{side fun fact - the characters Alex and Justin are together in real life !}

DrillSergeantCat

MissKittyDanger said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I'm on episode 13 now and to say I'm pissed is an understatement.

Curious on your 'pissed' reaction

I was pissed at the counselor's statements. Are you sure you didn't say yes and then change your mind? Are you sure you didn't say yes and are just regretting it now? GTFOH with that! I know that's the same bullshit that is asked of rape victims all the time, I just expected better from him.

MissKittyDanger

DrillSergeantCat said:

MissKittyDanger said:

DrillSergeantCat said:

I'm on episode 13 now and to say I'm pissed is an understatement.

Curious on your 'pissed' reaction

I was pissed at the counselor's statements. Are you sure you didn't say yes and then change your mind? Are you sure you didn't say yes and are just regretting it now? GTFOH with that! I know that's the same bullshit that is asked of rape victims all the time, I just expected better from him.

Yeh not a fan of the counselor and I know the author made it that way for a reason {in one version of the book, Hannah lives because her parents get home in time fyi}
But it helps other people learn from his mistakes at least.

Joney

As much as I hated what he said to her, I thought the counselor was really well done - it depicted what victims of sexual assault encounter all the time when they retell their experiences.  Are you sure?  Nope, saying I was raped just looks like sooooo much fun with ZERO stigma attached to it at all!  Telling you wasn't a terrifying experience that I gave no consideration to.  Also, I've been living in a hole my entire life, so I really have no idea how my moral character is going to be dragged through the mud, accused of bringing it on myself, and how dare I accuse such a "good guy" of rape!

He's coming from a place of concern, which I think was also important to show. His good intentions don't save Hannah; it's his complete incompetence in how to handle the matter that seals her fate in the story.  He's not a villain, and as an objective viewer you can see the discomfort - he's a sympathetic character who has no idea how to talk to a victim of sexual violence.  But I hope what that accomplishes is that when people see his character development, they'll think twice about ever asking a victim if she's "sure".

If you want to hear something really rage inducing, I've been reading an article written in the 1970s about rape myths.  Basically a reasonable defense used by a variety of men who dealt with rape (doctors, police, defense attorneys) would be to take a cup and wave it around vigorously, then challenge the woman to use a stick (or baton, or whatever) to "penetrate" the cup.  See silly woman, rape doesn't actually exist.  It's impossible to get the stick in the cup unless I slow down and "let" you in, which is basically consent.  At least we don't deal with that anymore?  Everything else in the article is pretty much representative of how we treat rape victims today, so.... in 200 years we should see some real change?  We can celebrate equal pay around the same time.

As for season 2?  School shooting and see her parents attempt to get charges pressed against Bryce.

Why'd you hate Clay's tape?  It made me sooooo sad for him.

MissKittyDanger

@Joney  wasn't a fan of Clay's tape because the entire time he's thinking he's part of the problem, yet he really wasn't.


Also about the counselor, I see your point and apparently other counselors have sought further guidance on how to deal with similar situations since the book came out.

{AND YES THAT ARTICLE IS RAGE INDUCING}

DrillSergeantCat

I think he really just pissed me off because the whole series he'd been trying to cover his ass. When Hannah's mom came to talk to him, he lied to her. When he went home late and his wife asked where he was, he was concerned that he was going to lose his job. He knew before he even got the tapes that he'd had a part in her death. 

Saturday, a Facebook friend posted an article "Hollywood police seek 2 women who spiked drinks, stole $70G in Rolex watches from victims." Someone added under the picture, "What were the men wearing? They were probably asking for it. Why wear a Rolex if you don't wanna get robbed? They wouldn't have gotten robbed if they were sober. Why drink with women you don't know? Where's your self respect? It's so disgusting how men go out and drink with their flashy belongings then get angry when women rob them. Who said you must get drunk? Men like to play the victim. Those women probably didn't even mean to steal from them, they were just having harmless fun." I saw the additional text in the manner it was intended, but some dude got his dick in a twist and started comparing it to family court and saying that those comments don't happen because "no man I know has ever said that." I was enraged.

Joney

Ugh. I hate mansplaining. 

CharmedPam

MissKittyDanger said:

@Joney  wasn't a fan of Clay's tape because the entire time he's thinking he's part of the problem, yet he really wasn't.


Also about the counselor, I see your point and apparently other counselors have sought further guidance on how to deal with similar situations since the book came out.

{AND YES THAT ARTICLE IS RAGE INDUCING}

Yes! and then before he even got to his tape, he asked Tony if he killed Hannah and Tony let him believe he had. grrrrr.

DrillSergeantCat

CharmedPam said:

MissKittyDanger said:

@Joney  wasn't a fan of Clay's tape because the entire time he's thinking he's part of the problem, yet he really wasn't.


Also about the counselor, I see your point and apparently other counselors have sought further guidance on how to deal with similar situations since the book came out.

{AND YES THAT ARTICLE IS RAGE INDUCING}

Yes! and then before he even got to his tape, he asked Tony if he killed Hannah and Tony let him believe he had. grrrrr.

Didn't just "let him believe" flat out told him he did. I was sitting there the whole time saying bullshit. 

MissKittyDanger

DrillSergeantCat said:

CharmedPam said:

MissKittyDanger said:

@Joney  wasn't a fan of Clay's tape because the entire time he's thinking he's part of the problem, yet he really wasn't.


Also about the counselor, I see your point and apparently other counselors have sought further guidance on how to deal with similar situations since the book came out.

{AND YES THAT ARTICLE IS RAGE INDUCING}

Yes! and then before he even got to his tape, he asked Tony if he killed Hannah and Tony let him believe he had. grrrrr.

Didn't just "let him believe" flat out told him he did. I was sitting there the whole time saying bullshit. 

Worst part is Tony wasn't wrong, just not entirely right. Tony wasn't wrong because everyone - including him as he said - let her give up and believe no one cared. So essentially yes, he was to blame.

Joney

Gotta keep the suspense going somehow. I binge watched the episodes before Clay's tape mostly to see what he had done, especially when other characters kept bringing it up. "Just wait until you get to your tape, Clay!"

I'll say that I was really relieved that he hadn't really done anything terrible. There wasn't a huge twist where they revealed Clay was the worst bully of them all. Then I was bawling and just felt so bad for him.

CharmedPam

Joney said:

Gotta keep the suspense going somehow. I binge watched the episodes before Clay's tape mostly to see what he had done, especially when other characters kept bringing it up. "Just wait until you get to your tape, Clay!"

I'll say that I was really relieved that he hadn't really done anything terrible. There wasn't a huge twist where they revealed Clay was the worst bully of them all. Then I was bawling and just felt so bad for him.

My thoughts exactly.  I wad led to believe he had done something terrible since everyone was telling him he did. 

It was a good series.  I think all high schoolers should watch it.  I graduated 20 years ago, but HS is still the same.  O M G.....was it really 20 years ago? Why did I have to type that out?

MissKittyDanger

CharmedPam said:

Joney said:

Gotta keep the suspense going somehow. I binge watched the episodes before Clay's tape mostly to see what he had done, especially when other characters kept bringing it up. "Just wait until you get to your tape, Clay!"

I'll say that I was really relieved that he hadn't really done anything terrible. There wasn't a huge twist where they revealed Clay was the worst bully of them all. Then I was bawling and just felt so bad for him.

My thoughts exactly.  I wad led to believe he had done something terrible since everyone was telling him he did. 

It was a good series.  I think all high schoolers should watch it.  I graduated 20 years ago, but HS is still the same.  O M G.....was it really 20 years ago? Why did I have to type that out?

Agreed to a degree.
I think the show is a tad graphic for some teens, but I think the book should be required reading material. {still graphic but seeing the detail isn't there - also leads up to what you're about to see}

CharmedPam

My friends' daughter is suicidal. She is 20 now, but went in and out of the hospital all through her teen years.  I was thinking of her when I was watching it, hoping she can get netflix access and see this. 

MissKittyDanger

CharmedPam said:

My friends' daughter is suicidal. She is 20 now, but went in and out of the hospital all through her teen years.  I was thinking of her when I was watching it, hoping she can get netflix access and see this. 

Poor girl Glad she survived though!

levioosa

Re: the rich drinking kid thing, I grew up with kids like that. It would almost be straight out of mean girls. Parents would "rather we drank in the house" and would provide alcohol, and it was never difficult for the kids themselves to go to certain liquor stores to buy it. So even though that seems crazy, it is actually realistic. 

I still have to watch the whole thing. It's been hard for me to watch drama/sad things because right now I feel like there's enough sad to go around. 

MissKittyDanger

levioosa said:

Re: the rich drinking kid thing, I grew up with kids like that. It would almost be straight out of mean girls. Parents would "rather we drank in the house" and would provide alcohol, and it was never difficult for the kids themselves to go to certain liquor stores to buy it. So even though that seems crazy, it is actually realistic. 

I still have to watch the whole thing. It's been hard for me to watch drama/sad things because right now I feel like there's enough sad to go around. 

That's still a thing. My boss has 17yr old daughter and 17yr old stepson and she said she'd rather provide them with alcohol then them get it from else.

I had a friend who's mum was like that. As long as the other kid's parents were fine with it, she would buy alcohol {like coolers} for us at sleepovers.

short+sassy

Joney said:

As much as I hated what he said to her, I thought the counselor was really well done - it depicted what victims of sexual assault encounter all the time when they retell their experiences.  Are you sure?  Nope, saying I was raped just looks like sooooo much fun with ZERO stigma attached to it at all!  Telling you wasn't a terrifying experience that I gave no consideration to.  Also, I've been living in a hole my entire life, so I really have no idea how my moral character is going to be dragged through the mud, accused of bringing it on myself, and how dare I accuse such a "good guy" of rape!

He's coming from a place of concern, which I think was also important to show. His good intentions don't save Hannah; it's his complete incompetence in how to handle the matter that seals her fate in the story.  He's not a villain, and as an objective viewer you can see the discomfort - he's a sympathetic character who has no idea how to talk to a victim of sexual violence.  But I hope what that accomplishes is that when people see his character development, they'll think twice about ever asking a victim if she's "sure".

If you want to hear something really rage inducing, I've been reading an article written in the 1970s about rape myths.  Basically a reasonable defense used by a variety of men who dealt with rape (doctors, police, defense attorneys) would be to take a cup and wave it around vigorously, then challenge the woman to use a stick (or baton, or whatever) to "penetrate" the cup.  See silly woman, rape doesn't actually exist.  It's impossible to get the stick in the cup unless I slow down and "let" you in, which is basically consent.  At least we don't deal with that anymore?  Everything else in the article is pretty much representative of how we treat rape victims today, so.... in 200 years we should see some real change?  We can celebrate equal pay around the same time.

As for season 2?  School shooting and see her parents attempt to get charges pressed against Bryce.

Why'd you hate Clay's tape?  It made me sooooo sad for him.

Hmph.  Rhetorical question.  Where the victims allowed to punch or slap the police officers/DAs across the face?  Otherwise beat them up?  Hold knives/guns to their throats and threaten to kill them?  Or even be allowed to pretend they were twice as strong as that person.  Then hold the hand with the cup down until that person couldn't move.  Bet it was pretty easy to put the baton/stick in the cup then.

Let me guess.  They weren't allowed to do any of that.  Soooooo, what was that trying to prove again?

Sorry, I know I'm preaching to the choir and my post isn't even specifically about this show.

We had a "rape myth" seminar in college and all students, male and female, were required to attend.  I really commend my college for doing that.  The biggest thing I found surprising was that most rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows.  And the younger a victim is, the more likely she is to know her assailant.  Sadly, it also seemed like there were a lot of people "surprised" to learn that, if a person is too drunk to give consent, that is also rape.

The truth will set you free and I'd love to see this type of seminar being done in both high schools and colleges.  And perhaps it is nowadays.  Like @CharmedPam, I don't want to write out how long ago it was that I was in HS and college, lol.  Because then it becomes "real".

*Barbie*

MissKittyDanger said:

That's still a thing. My boss has 17yr old daughter and 17yr old stepson and she said she'd rather provide them with alcohol then them get it from else.

I had a friend who's mum was like that. As long as the other kid's parents were fine with it, she would buy alcohol {like coolers} for us at sleepovers.

i had a few friends that had parents like that. rule was generally that if you drank, you stayed overnight, no driving, and no more than 2 per person. (honor system) 

i binge watched the entire series in the last 3 days. it was so good. (yeah i know some of the minor details that you guys mentioned bothered me too) i thought it was good that they didn't shy away from the ugly. I'm really hoping that they do a second season - i want to know what happens next.