Requesting Modest Attire?

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361

Hi, I'm recently engaged and we are having a traditional Jewish wedding. As part of the religious ceremony, our guests are required to dress modestly. Shoulders need to be covered, skirts/dresses should be at least to right above the knee, no jeans or shorts for men, etc. Should I word this on the invitation or website? Probably about 50% of our wedding guests will not know that the ceremony requires modest dress but I don't want them to feel stupid about it.

I'm asking because I grew up non-religious and was invited to a friend's brother's bar mitzvah and I wore a sleeveless dress. The rabbi took me aside privately and told me I needed to cover up or leave. It was SO embarrassing! I don't want that to happen to any of our guests.

MobKaz

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361 said:

Hi, I'm recently engaged and we are having a traditional Jewish wedding. As part of the religious ceremony, our guests are required to dress modestly. Shoulders need to be covered, skirts/dresses should be at least to right above the knee, no jeans or shorts for men, etc. Should I word this on the invitation or website? Probably about 50% of our wedding guests will not know that the ceremony requires modest dress but I don't want them to feel stupid about it.

I'm asking because I grew up non-religious and was invited to a friend's brother's bar mitzvah and I wore a sleeveless dress. The rabbi took me aside privately and told me I needed to cover up or leave. It was SO embarrassing! I don't want that to happen to any of our guests.

Does the synagogue have a website that lists their requirements?  The best way to inform your guests would be to include a direct link to the requirements of the synagogue.

If not, highlight the appropriate apparel on your website by stating something closely near the ceremony information that "our synagogue requires modest dress."  You can then explain the requirements.  I personally feel that the only difficult criteria for women might be the length of a dress. 

This is never something that should be placed directly on the invitation.  However, you could insert a second small card indicating the website of the synagogue and/or the restrictions.

charlotte989875

I agree with @MobKaz about including a link to a website if you have one. I am curious about why you wouldn’t put this on the invitation like you would say, black tie attire, or other required attire like jackets/ties for a reception venue. 

I defintely think you need to include it in the invitation suite, either one the invitation or as an insert, but I’d also put it on the website if you have one and spread by word of mouth. I would spell out what modest dress means to your synagogue because what is modest to one person might not be modest to the Rabbi/synagogue. I agree you want to make sure your guests have all the information so they don’t, unknowingly, attend in something that is not acceptable. 

STARMOON44

I would put an inset card in with your invitation that says something like “The synagogue requires that shoulders and knees be covered and does not permit wearing jeans or shorts.”  And also put that on the website. I wouldn’t say anything about modest dress because that a) doesn’t actually tell people what to wear and b) implies that people who wear, say, a dress that is shorter than knee length are immodest and I think that’s really offensive. 

downtondiva

STARMOON44 said:

I would put an inset card in with your invitation that says something like “The synagogue requires that shoulders and knees be covered and does not permit wearing jeans or shorts.”  And also put that on the website. I wouldn’t say anything about modest dress because that a) doesn’t actually tell people what to wear and b) implies that people who wear, say, a dress that is shorter than knee length are immodest and I think that’s really offensive. 

I agree with this. Just specify what the synagogue's requirements are and leave the word "modest" out of it, especially since some of the requirements (namely jeans not being permitted) don't really have to do with modesty anyway.

MobKaz

charlotte989875 said:

I agree with @MobKaz about including a link to a website if you have one. I am curious about why you wouldn’t put this on the invitation like you would say, black tie attire, or other required attire like jackets/ties for a reception venue. 

I defintely think you need to include it in the invitation suite, either one the invitation or as an insert, but I’d also put it on the website if you have one and spread by word of mouth. I would spell out what modest dress means to your synagogue because what is modest to one person might not be modest to the Rabbi/synagogue. I agree you want to make sure your guests have all the information so they don’t, unknowingly, attend in something that is not acceptable. 

I don't have a "legitimate" etiquette/propriety answer.  However, for me, "Black Tie" speaks to the level of the event and is self explanatory in two simple words. The gist of it is "ballgowns and tuxes".   In the event of this religious accommodation, a couple of simple words discreetly added to the bottom of an invitation is not enough.  I think a link listing all the specifics is necessary.  As @STARMOON44 alluded, simply adding "modest dress attire" would not be helpful and could be construed as offensive.

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361

I didn't realize that putting modest may be considered offensive. Thanks for pointing that out! Maybe I should just put what's not allowed on the website and offer some suggestions of what to wear. It's really only important during the ceremony. We're getting married in a hot climate so people here think that short, revealing cocktail dresses are "black tie."

STARMOON44

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361 said:

I didn't realize that putting modest may be considered offensive. Thanks for pointing that out! Maybe I should just put what's not allowed on the website and offer some suggestions of what to wear. It's really only important during the ceremony. We're getting married in a hot climate so people here think that short, revealing cocktail dresses are "black tie."

Yeah, cocktail dresses are often acceptable black tie attire, especially in hot climates! People aren’t going to be changing in between? 

Jen4948

I agree with PPs that I would list specific requirements and/or link to your synagogue's website rather than using the word "modest."

Aside from the fact that people may find it offensive, they also may not know how to interpret it. One's person's "modest" can be another's "you need to cover up."

lovesclimbing

People's modesty standards are so different. I consider what I wear to be fairly modest. I don't wear anything low cut enough to show cleavage and I don't wear skirts shorter than a few inches above my knees. 

However, I wear sleeveless tops all the time, including to church! I don't think they are immodest at all. I'm also a very warm person, so I would quite possibly, even if I knew it was a religious wedding, wear a sleeveless top. I've worn sleeveless tops to several weddings, and my two sisters, both of whom had weddings held in churches in which I was part of the bridal party, had bridesmaid dresses that were sleeveless. Heck, I wore a sleeveless dress to my own wedding held in a church! 

I consider mysef fairly modest, yet I know many people who dress considerably more conservatively than I do. I know people who only wear long skirts or dresses and people who don't wear shirts that go any lower than maybe an inch below the hollow of their neck. 

So yes, it's important to specifically state the requirements. 

southernbelle0915

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361 said:

I didn't realize that putting modest may be considered offensive. Thanks for pointing that out! Maybe I should just put what's not allowed on the website and offer some suggestions of what to wear. It's really only important during the ceremony. We're getting married in a hot climate so people here think that short, revealing cocktail dresses are "black tie."

Do the first part of this sentence and not the last part.

If you literally just copy and paste the rules from the website/synagogue materials (and I would put them in quotes so it doesn't come off as you telling people what to wear) you don't need to offer suggestions. These are adults who can process dress codes. And if they don't, well they'll get the embarrassing talk from the rabbi and it's on them at that point.

MandyMost

Just put what's not allowed as part of the invitation package somewhere, and also on the website. A lot of people won't go to the website so that's not enough.

Do NOT give people suggestions as to what they SHOULD wear, simply tell them what they cannot wear. 

"Please note that the synagogue requires knees and shoulders to be covered, and does not allow the wearing of jeans or shorts". I don't think there's anything wrong with putting that right at the bottom of the invite. This isn't about your own personal preference, but is an important piece of information necessary to know to attend the event. 

kahluakoala

Agreed with PPs on putting the exact phrasing on the invite. Also wanted to suggest maybe having a few shawls or pashimas available for women who may have forgotten to cover their shoulders. Because, like you said, it's just for the ceremony so if they just need something for the 30 min they're in the synagogue it might be nice to have a few handy.

banana468

I'd echo the PPs that you shouldn't tell people what TO wear but I'd also ask that they specify what a bare shoulder means.   My wedding dress was sleeveless but my shoulders were mostly covered.     The dress was a V neck top that had lace shoulders approximately 3 inches wide.    So I'd hope that they specify what does and doesn't pass on their own website. 

MandyMost

banana468 said:

I'd echo the PPs that you shouldn't tell people what TO wear but I'd also ask that they specify what a bare shoulder means.   My wedding dress was sleeveless but my shoulders were mostly covered.     The dress was a V neck top that had lace shoulders approximately 3 inches wide.    So I'd hope that they specify what does and doesn't pass on their own website. 

I would assume that sleeveless=bare shoulders, and would therefore not be allowed. 

It's probably a good idea to have some shawls available for guests who thought otherwise if the rule is sleeveless=bare shoulder=not allowed. 

banana468

MandyMost said:

banana468 said:

I'd echo the PPs that you shouldn't tell people what TO wear but I'd also ask that they specify what a bare shoulder means.   My wedding dress was sleeveless but my shoulders were mostly covered.     The dress was a V neck top that had lace shoulders approximately 3 inches wide.    So I'd hope that they specify what does and doesn't pass on their own website. 

I would assume that sleeveless=bare shoulders, and would therefore not be allowed. 

It's probably a good idea to have some shawls available for guests who thought otherwise if the rule is sleeveless=bare shoulder=not allowed. 

That's my point.   I was married in a Roman Catholic church that requested "modest dress" of me and the WP.   The strapless dresses of my BMs meant that I provided them with linen wraps for the ceremony.   There was no issue with my dress though.   It met the modesty requirements.  

So I'd ask that they be specific because we're talking about the difference in about 1.5 inches of lace.

MairePoppy

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361 said:

I didn't realize that putting modest may be considered offensive. Thanks for pointing that out! Maybe I should just put what's not allowed on the website and offer some suggestions of what to wear. It's really only important during the ceremony. We're getting married in a hot climate so people here think that short, revealing cocktail dresses are "black tie."

I don't think the term 'modest attire' is offensive. But it is open to interpretation. I would assume, no cleavage, knees covered. But are sleeveless dresses okay? It's important to make sure every guest has this information and I second or third including the synagogue dress code on an insert with your invitation. Include a link to your website, but keep in mind there may be guests who don't internet well.

southernbelle0915

MairePoppy said:

knottie71e3e926f9f2b361 said:

I didn't realize that putting modest may be considered offensive. Thanks for pointing that out! Maybe I should just put what's not allowed on the website and offer some suggestions of what to wear. It's really only important during the ceremony. We're getting married in a hot climate so people here think that short, revealing cocktail dresses are "black tie."

I don't think the term 'modest attire' is offensive. But it is open to interpretation. I would assume, no cleavage, knees covered. But are sleeveless dresses okay? It's important to make sure every guest has this information and I second or third including the synagogue dress code on an insert with your invitation. Include a link to your website, but keep in mind there may be guests who don't internet well.

I also don't think it's offensive and understand modesty is a spectrum.

It's a house of worship, so when they use the term "modest" it's probably on the more conservative side of the modesty spectrum. I feel like the average person understands this.

Jen4948

Aside from differences of opinion over what "modest" constitutes, putting the synagogue's dress code in your invitations will clarify that you personally aren't requesting that your guests dress a certain way. That would help the information go down better with any guests who would otherwise be offended by a dress code.

STARMOON44

The reason I find it offensive is that it implies clothing that doesn’t fit within this particular groups modesty standards is immodest. I wear sleeveless tops, jeans, and skirts and dresses shorter than knee length to Church all the time and think I am modestly dressed. Don’t make it into a values judgment when the point is this synagogue has a dress code, here it is. 

lovesclimbing

STARMOON44 said:

The reason I find it offensive is that it implies clothing that doesn’t fit within this particular groups modesty standards is immodest. I wear sleeveless tops, jeans, and skirts and dresses shorter than knee length to Church all the time and think I am modestly dressed. Don’t make it into a values judgment when the point is this synagogue has a dress code, here it is. 

I mostly agree with this. I don't find it offensive, but I would be a little annoyed if someone said I was being immodest for wearing sleeveless tops or jeans, both of which I wear regularly. 

And these modesty standards are vague anyway. I mean, I could wear this to that wedding and fit within them!

SP29

I agree. Be direct with what the dress code states, "The synagogue requires covered shoulders, dresses to knee level, no jeans, etc, etc" and do not give it a term or qualifier such as "modest". Modest is up for interpretation.

Otherwise, someone could wear this dress, and it would be considered "immodest":

CMGragain

While the words "modest attire" in understood in Mormon, Eastern Orthodox and Jewish congregations, it is not generally understood outside that cultural area.  I get it, but if you are having people from other cultures, they might not.
I agree with the others that you should insert a card of explanation copying the synagoge's requirements for people who might not understand.