My friend's son is a monster and she ignores it

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

“Ellen” and I have been friends for years. This summer, her 12-year-old son, “Ryan,” declared he was madly in love with my 14-year-old daughter, “Kate.” We joked about crushes and puppy love. My daughter didn’t reciprocate, but I asked her to let him down gently. The problem is that Ryan refuses to accept it. He has continued to pester Kate with texts, phone calls, and messages on social media. My daughter has blocked him and set everything to private. Ryan has showed up at Kate’s babysitting job, which is on the other side of town! My husband had a talk with Ryan, but nothing sinks in. Ellen refuses to take this seriously and won’t do anything to discipline her son. According to her, Kate just needs to give Ryan a chance. At our last conversation, I told Ellen that having a crush does not mean Ryan has the right to stalk my daughter. Ellen got upset and said we were overreacting. This behavior has gone on for more than a month. Yesterday, Kate went to the pool with friends and Ryan showed up. He wouldn’t leave Kate alone and grabbed her when she attempted to walk away, tearing her shirt. A lifeguard made Ryan leave. My daughter is very upset, and my husband and I have no idea what to do. His behavior is getting worse; if Ryan were older we wouldn’t hesitate to call the police, but he only turned 12 in May. We don’t know what to do beyond keeping a watchful eye on Kate and hoping Ryan moves on.

—Frightening Puppy Love

banana468

"Ellen, I've brought this to your attention previously but your son assaulted my daughter.  I need you or your son to reimburse us for the cost of the shirt that HE tore when he assaulted her and he needs to promise to leave her alone.  I really don't want to have to contact authorities about this but if there is another incident you are leaving me with no other option."

Friend isn't a friend.   She's enabling her son's behavior by calling it "normal" when it isn't.  And quite frankly, FPL needs to be pretty up front with Ellen.   I could and would not be friends with someone who failed to recognize that her child's behavior was causing my own child physical and psychological harm.   FPL needs to call this the final straw so Ellen knows that this is real shit she's about to find herself in if she doesn't treat this as seriously as it is. 

OliveOilsMom

Ellen is letting a future abuser grow up right under her nose.  If these actions continue, Ryan will think it is ok to behave this way with women.

It's time to outright end the friendship with Ellen, full stop.  Perhaps that will show her how serious this is.  I would use much stronger language when speaking with her.

"Ellen, your son assaulted my daughter.  He tore her shirt in a public setting when she tried to get away from him.  It was done publicly with other witnesses around, it was so noticeable that the lifeguard told him to leave.  This is no longer puppy love but obsession.  I must protect my daughter.  We can no longer be friends, because you fail to recognize how dangerous this situation is.  If Ryan shows up at any of Kate's outings again, whether its her job, the pool or anywhere else around town.  As soon as Ryan approaches Kate, she is to tell me and we will be going to the police for a restraining order.  This is no longer funny to me or my family and Kate is scared of all this attention.  Now, what are you going to do with Ryan?"

I would also try to contact the school now about this.  That way they could have a plan in place for when the school year starts, assuming they attend the same school.

ShesSoCold

OliveOilsMom said:

Ellen is letting a future abuser grow up right under her nose.  If these actions continue, Ryan will think it is ok to behave this way with women.

It's time to outright end the friendship with Ellen, full stop.  Perhaps that will show her how serious this is.  I would use much stronger language when speaking with her.

"Ellen, your son assaulted my daughter.  He tore her shirt in a public setting when she tried to get away from him.  It was done publicly with other witnesses around, it was so noticeable that the lifeguard told him to leave.  This is no longer puppy love but obsession.  I must protect my daughter.  We can no longer be friends, because you fail to recognize how dangerous this situation is.  If Ryan shows up at any of Kate's outings again, whether its her job, the pool or anywhere else around town.  As soon as Ryan approaches Kate, she is to tell me and we will be going to the police for a restraining order.  This is no longer funny to me or my family and Kate is scared of all this attention.  Now, what are you going to do with Ryan?"

I would also try to contact the school now about this.  That way they could have a plan in place for when the school year starts, assuming they attend the same school.

Yep. This. 100%. Well said.

mrsconn23

ShesSoCold said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Ellen is letting a future abuser grow up right under her nose.  If these actions continue, Ryan will think it is ok to behave this way with women.

It's time to outright end the friendship with Ellen, full stop.  Perhaps that will show her how serious this is.  I would use much stronger language when speaking with her.

"Ellen, your son assaulted my daughter.  He tore her shirt in a public setting when she tried to get away from him.  It was done publicly with other witnesses around, it was so noticeable that the lifeguard told him to leave.  This is no longer puppy love but obsession.  I must protect my daughter.  We can no longer be friends, because you fail to recognize how dangerous this situation is.  If Ryan shows up at any of Kate's outings again, whether its her job, the pool or anywhere else around town.  As soon as Ryan approaches Kate, she is to tell me and we will be going to the police for a restraining order.  This is no longer funny to me or my family and Kate is scared of all this attention.  Now, what are you going to do with Ryan?"

I would also try to contact the school now about this.  That way they could have a plan in place for when the school year starts, assuming they attend the same school.

Yep. This. 100%. Well said.

Agreed.  But IDK if I'd even let the 'next time' happen.  Since he had to be stopped by someone else before it escalated beyond a ripped shirt, I think I'd be filing for a TRO. 

OliveOilsMom

MrsConn - That is true about "next time" my only pause would be that he is 12.  That is why I gave him a next time, hoping the speech to Ellen would be a wake up call and she would get more forceful in telling Ryan that this all needs to be let go.  That even though he likes a girl, it is ok for that girl to not like him back.  And that if the girl does not like him back, he is not to keep pressuring her or following her - he has to let it go.

mrsconn23

OliveOilsMom said:

MrsConn - That is true about "next time" my only pause would be that he is 12.  That is why I gave him a next time, hoping the speech to Ellen would be a wake up call and she would get more forceful in telling Ryan that this all needs to be let go.  That even though he likes a girl, it is ok for that girl to not like him back.  And that if the girl does not like him back, he is not to keep pressuring her or following her - he has to let it go.

Yeah.   I don't think I'd fault LW for going either direction (filing now or allowing for a 'next time').  If LW has been friends with Ellen for years, I wonder what other behavior has been overlooked or downplayed by Ellen.   

levioosa

This is how a sexual predator is made. I’d be dumping my friendship with Ellen too. Teach your son boundaries and to respect the meaning of no, JFC. I’d make sure Kate has the option of talking to a counselor/therapist too because this all sounds really traumatizing for a 14 year old. I’m sure she feels unsafe all the time right now and she needs affirmation that it’s nothing that she’s done. 

VarunaTT

I agree with everything else, and I'll add that I don't care if the kid is 12.  This needs to have consequences and it needs them NOW and if mom won't provide them, but law enforcement might, I'm all for it.  I think the school might be a useful resource too.

Without intervention, this goes one way and that's to a predator of women.  With intervention, we don't know how it can go anymore and there's some hope.  He's 12, it'll be sealed off.

charlotte989875

The next time he contacts her, shows up, or tries to get in touch with her call the police. Hopefully they’ve documented everything but the times of trying to work things out with Ellen are over; she’s made it clear she’s not interested. 

You ou need to protect your daughter and honestly I think giving him chance after chance is teaching your daughter his future/situation/your friendship is more important than he safety and well being. 

climbingsingle

I'd truly be so worried if I was this girl's parent.

downtondiva

I understand the reluctance to call the police on a 12-year-old, but if not now, when? If Ryan isn't taught at this age that he needs to respect women and that actions have consequences, I shudder to think what he will try to get away with as a teenager or adult.

LW needs to do whatever she can to protect her daughter, because without intervention, this is not going to get better. She also needs to end the friendship with Ellen, because Ellen has made it clear that she either doesn't believe LW and her daughter, or simply does not care about what her son has put them through. That's not a friend worth having.

ei34

When parents of a student who’s done something awful get called in to the counseling office, it’s very often met with “he/she has always been like this! Why are you making it a problem?!” There’s complete oblivious denial that their kid has f-ked up.  So LW’s friend really may have the blinders on.  I’ve seen some amazing wording here- if I was LW I’d email the “friend” once more so there’s a paper trail, and then follow through and call the police the next time my daughter was harassed.  She’s officially being stalked which is heartbreaking and disgusting but can’t be ignored.

short+sassy

OliveOilsMom said:

Ellen is letting a future abuser grow up right under her nose.  If these actions continue, Ryan will think it is ok to behave this way with women.

It's time to outright end the friendship with Ellen, full stop.  Perhaps that will show her how serious this is.  I would use much stronger language when speaking with her.

"Ellen, your son assaulted my daughter.  He tore her shirt in a public setting when she tried to get away from him.  It was done publicly with other witnesses around, it was so noticeable that the lifeguard told him to leave.  This is no longer puppy love but obsession.  I must protect my daughter.  We can no longer be friends, because you fail to recognize how dangerous this situation is.  If Ryan shows up at any of Kate's outings again, whether its her job, the pool or anywhere else around town.  As soon as Ryan approaches Kate, she is to tell me and we will be going to the police for a restraining order.  This is no longer funny to me or my family and Kate is scared of all this attention.  Now, what are you going to do with Ryan?"

I would also try to contact the school now about this.  That way they could have a plan in place for when the school year starts, assuming they attend the same school.

Yes, to so much of this.

But I think there also needs to be some concern for Ryan.

Like (adding in), "Ellen, I know this is hard for you to hear.  But your son is becoming a sexual predator.  He has already proven he won't take "no" for an answer from a girl.  The great thing is, he is young.  There is STILL TIME to help him!  Please, please, make sure he gets the help he needs.  For his sake and for your own."

Will that work?  Probably not.  But human beings are selfish and, if there is a piece in there that boils down to making her and her son's life better, maybe that will get through.  Or will at least get through when the same behavior starts happening with the next girl.  Instead of haunting her years later at his rape trial.

banana468

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Ellen is letting a future abuser grow up right under her nose.  If these actions continue, Ryan will think it is ok to behave this way with women.

It's time to outright end the friendship with Ellen, full stop.  Perhaps that will show her how serious this is.  I would use much stronger language when speaking with her.

"Ellen, your son assaulted my daughter.  He tore her shirt in a public setting when she tried to get away from him.  It was done publicly with other witnesses around, it was so noticeable that the lifeguard told him to leave.  This is no longer puppy love but obsession.  I must protect my daughter.  We can no longer be friends, because you fail to recognize how dangerous this situation is.  If Ryan shows up at any of Kate's outings again, whether its her job, the pool or anywhere else around town.  As soon as Ryan approaches Kate, she is to tell me and we will be going to the police for a restraining order.  This is no longer funny to me or my family and Kate is scared of all this attention.  Now, what are you going to do with Ryan?"

I would also try to contact the school now about this.  That way they could have a plan in place for when the school year starts, assuming they attend the same school.

Yep. This. 100%. Well said.

Agreed.  But IDK if I'd even let the 'next time' happen.  Since he had to be stopped by someone else before it escalated beyond a ripped shirt, I think I'd be filing for a TRO. 

True - but I think the LW has sympathy.   I think a combination of @short+sassy but also possibly talk to a school psychologist/social worker about this too.   It's valuable to keep them informed anyway and they may have some experience in matters like this. 

GBCK

maybe give the daughter some help too.  a counselor who can help make sure 'let him down gently' isnt the message she got, but that "you did nothing wrong, you are under no obligations to give any boy ANYTHING.  Feel free to tell him to DIAF at this point"

Because 'let him down gently' is tricky shit. 

Jen4948

"Ellen, our friendship is over. My daughter has no interest in your son and she owes him nothing. We are not willing to put up with his stalking and harassment of our daughter.  I've told you about this repeatedly, and you have refused to do a single thing to rein him in. If your son comes anywhere near her again, we will report him to the police."

VarunaTT

GBCK said:

maybe give the daughter some help too.  a counselor who can help make sure 'let him down gently' isnt the message she got, but that "you did nothing wrong, you are under no obligations to give any boy ANYTHING.  Feel free to tell him to DIAF at this point"

Because 'let him down gently' is tricky shit. 

Add onto it the real fear of violence from this stalker (let's call it what it is) and she needs to be coached on how to protect herself, without freaking her out too badly.

I'm just really angry about this post.  This is exactly how all of this shit starts, both the predator and the victim.  And I want to tell off Ellen, but at the same time, she almost can't help her own participation in patriarchy.

banana468

mrsconn23 said:

ShesSoCold said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Ellen is letting a future abuser grow up right under her nose.  If these actions continue, Ryan will think it is ok to behave this way with women.

It's time to outright end the friendship with Ellen, full stop.  Perhaps that will show her how serious this is.  I would use much stronger language when speaking with her.

"Ellen, your son assaulted my daughter.  He tore her shirt in a public setting when she tried to get away from him.  It was done publicly with other witnesses around, it was so noticeable that the lifeguard told him to leave.  This is no longer puppy love but obsession.  I must protect my daughter.  We can no longer be friends, because you fail to recognize how dangerous this situation is.  If Ryan shows up at any of Kate's outings again, whether its her job, the pool or anywhere else around town.  As soon as Ryan approaches Kate, she is to tell me and we will be going to the police for a restraining order.  This is no longer funny to me or my family and Kate is scared of all this attention.  Now, what are you going to do with Ryan?"

I would also try to contact the school now about this.  That way they could have a plan in place for when the school year starts, assuming they attend the same school.

Yep. This. 100%. Well said.

Agreed.  But IDK if I'd even let the 'next time' happen.  Since he had to be stopped by someone else before it escalated beyond a ripped shirt, I think I'd be filing for a TRO. 

True.  I'd be leaning towards that myself.