Keep making your plans. They'll figure it out.

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

My husband and I had children in our early 20s and sacrificed a lot to give them the best life possible. They are all grown now, and two are married. My husband and I are planning to travel and live abroad for the next decade or so. We have never been shy about talking about this, but my two married daughters both made comments this summer about starting families—things like, “Oh, you are going to be there, Mom,” and how their friends had children and the grandparents moved closer to provide free child care. We are not doing that. We will love any grandchildren we have, but our lives are not going to revolve around them. How do I tactfully bring this up to my children? They have these expectations that my husband and I don’t share. I want to nip this in the bud before the grandbabies are here.

—Traveling Grandparents

STARMOON44

“Oh no, we’re going to be in Europe! You know that we’ve always planned this. We will be so happy to visit but we aren’t going to be regular childcare,we already raised our babies”

literally my mom Mom tells me this like every other week even though I haven’t asked and am not pregnant 

banana468

I'll echo @STARMOON44.   They are more than allowed to have their plans.

That said, I hope both mom and daughter have an understanding.  Maybe it's because my grandparents were there for my parents that I'd tilt my head and wonder why my mom and dad opted to just bolt when we had kids.   

This is pretty delicate but I think the LW sounds pretty glib about the entire thing.   Most people I know (my ILs included) want to be close to their children because they want to be active in the lives of their kids and grandkids.   These people have basically said that they don't have that desire.   And while these people are completely entitled to do what they want, that can sting.  

And with proximity in aging comes the ability to be able to care for aging parents.   Maybe that isn't an issue for these people but I think LW may also want to think the real long term.   My guess is that she and her H are in their 50s.   A lot can change.  They may be fine or they may start to enter the phase of needing replacement joints, heart problems or other issues that come with the aging process.  And when you tell your kids that your travel is priority one and they're priority 2 the message will be received loud and clear when you aren't able to move as well so please don't expect them to come to you quickly either.  

CharmedPam

Parents are finally empty nesters.  Let them enjoy it! 

ei34

If I was LW I’d just say what she said here. Their plans sound nice and the adult daughters must know on some level that what happens in one family doesn’t always happen in yours.

My own parents are more financially comfortable now than they were when we were growing up- city pensions are almost as generous as salaries + the house is paid off and there aren’t four Catholic school tuition anymore.  They both have some health issues but they travel in spite of them- at least one international trip every year with a couple here in the States mixed in.  Lots of Broadway shows, nice restaurants..I’m thrilled for them.  They’re the two most loving grandparents I know, although they did make it clear they want to have lots of visits with the kids without the day-to-day care.  Totally fine by me.  They’re 58 and 61, they did all that stuff already it’d be shitty of the LW daughters to expect more.

levioosa

banana468 said:

I'll echo @STARMOON44.   They are more than allowed to have their plans.

That said, I hope both mom and daughter have an understanding.  Maybe it's because my grandparents were there for my parents that I'd tilt my head and wonder why my mom and dad opted to just bolt when we had kids.   

This is pretty delicate but I think the LW sounds pretty glib about the entire thing.   Most people I know (my ILs included) want to be close to their children because they want to be active in the lives of their kids and grandkids.   These people have basically said that they don't have that desire.   And while these people are completely entitled to do what they want, that can sting.  

And with proximity in aging comes the ability to be able to care for aging parents.   Maybe that isn't an issue for these people but I think LW may also want to think the real long term.   My guess is that she and her H are in their 50s.   A lot can change.  They may be fine or they may start to enter the phase of needing replacement joints, heart problems or other issues that come with the aging process.  And when you tell your kids that your travel is priority one and they're priority 2 the message will be received loud and clear when you aren't able to move as well so please don't expect them to come to you quickly either.  

I disagree with a lot of this. They spent decades raising their kids. This is their time. They should get to do whatever they want. Traveling abroad is one of those things that gets less feasible the more you age. They don’t owe their kids anything. They raised their children. The kids now need to think about how to raise their own offspring without being entitled. That’s not LW saying her family doesn’t matter. And some of this is counting chickens. Maybe LW and her husband will get abroad and decide it’s not for them. Maybe they’ll get over there and love it. But holding them hostage to suck it up and provide childcare so it’s not a tit for tat situation? If their kids are going to be that petty, then they probably weren’t going to be the type to really be there for them in the long run anyways. 

short+sassy

I don't think this at a level where it needs to be a big conversation.  But, when a daughter brings the subject up,  a casual, "As you know, your father and I plan to spend our retirement in Aruba/Costa Rica/Italian countryside, but we are excited for the future grandbabies and will especially look forward to coming back for visits."

And if the daughters want to live in some alternate reality where they think their parents are going to shoulder a lot of the child-rearing responsibilities for THEIR (the daughters) children.  That THEY chose to have.  Then that is just too bad, so sad for the daughters.  And they'll figure out daycares/other arrangements like everybody else does.

ShesSoCold

levioosa said:

banana468 said:

I'll echo @STARMOON44.   They are more than allowed to have their plans.

That said, I hope both mom and daughter have an understanding.  Maybe it's because my grandparents were there for my parents that I'd tilt my head and wonder why my mom and dad opted to just bolt when we had kids.   

This is pretty delicate but I think the LW sounds pretty glib about the entire thing.   Most people I know (my ILs included) want to be close to their children because they want to be active in the lives of their kids and grandkids.   These people have basically said that they don't have that desire.   And while these people are completely entitled to do what they want, that can sting.  

And with proximity in aging comes the ability to be able to care for aging parents.   Maybe that isn't an issue for these people but I think LW may also want to think the real long term.   My guess is that she and her H are in their 50s.   A lot can change.  They may be fine or they may start to enter the phase of needing replacement joints, heart problems or other issues that come with the aging process.  And when you tell your kids that your travel is priority one and they're priority 2 the message will be received loud and clear when you aren't able to move as well so please don't expect them to come to you quickly either.  

I disagree with a lot of this. They spent decades raising their kids. This is their time. They should get to do whatever they want. Traveling abroad is one of those things that gets less feasible the more you age. They don’t owe their kids anything. They raised their children. The kids now need to think about how to raise their own offspring without being entitled. That’s not LW saying her family doesn’t matter. And some of this is counting chickens. Maybe LW and her husband will get abroad and decide it’s not for them. Maybe they’ll get over there and love it. But holding them hostage to suck it up and provide childcare so it’s not a tit for tat situation? If their kids are going to be that petty, then they probably weren’t going to be the type to really be there for them in the long run anyways. 

I agree with this. LW doesn't sound like she's planning to "just bolt" as soon as a grandchild arrives; they've been planning this for years and years. They spent a huge chunk of their lives raising children and now this is their time for them, I think they deserve it.

Are present grandparents great? Absolutely. But I don't think these kids (or any) are entitled to that and to expect it or guilt them is crap.

When my mom was pregnant with her first, my dad's mom told her, "I raised my kids, you raise yours." My grandma on my mom's side was much more involved with us. I loved both my grandmothers and there was absolutely nothing wrong with what my paternal grandmother said. Thankfully my mom didn't hold it against her as Grandma aged and Mom helped take care of her from time to time.

banana468

levioosa said:

banana468 said:

I'll echo @STARMOON44.   They are more than allowed to have their plans.

That said, I hope both mom and daughter have an understanding.  Maybe it's because my grandparents were there for my parents that I'd tilt my head and wonder why my mom and dad opted to just bolt when we had kids.   

This is pretty delicate but I think the LW sounds pretty glib about the entire thing.   Most people I know (my ILs included) want to be close to their children because they want to be active in the lives of their kids and grandkids.   These people have basically said that they don't have that desire.   And while these people are completely entitled to do what they want, that can sting.  

And with proximity in aging comes the ability to be able to care for aging parents.   Maybe that isn't an issue for these people but I think LW may also want to think the real long term.   My guess is that she and her H are in their 50s.   A lot can change.  They may be fine or they may start to enter the phase of needing replacement joints, heart problems or other issues that come with the aging process.  And when you tell your kids that your travel is priority one and they're priority 2 the message will be received loud and clear when you aren't able to move as well so please don't expect them to come to you quickly either.  

I disagree with a lot of this. They spent decades raising their kids. This is their time. They should get to do whatever they want. Traveling abroad is one of those things that gets less feasible the more you age. They don’t owe their kids anything. They raised their children. The kids now need to think about how to raise their own offspring without being entitled. That’s not LW saying her family doesn’t matter. And some of this is counting chickens. Maybe LW and her husband will get abroad and decide it’s not for them. Maybe they’ll get over there and love it. But holding them hostage to suck it up and provide childcare so it’s not a tit for tat situation? If their kids are going to be that petty, then they probably weren’t going to be the type to really be there for them in the long run anyways. 

I'm trying to advocate for both sides: the daughters are wrong to expect free babysitting.   Full stop - I agree with that.     

I am questioning how much time they plan on spending with the kids and if what they are planning to do is a shift from what their kids experienced.

Example: my grandparents may have watched us from time to time but they weren't free daily sitting.   But because we lived close to them we got to spend time with them frequently - from Saturday's for coffee and donuts to random Thursday dinners and they were able to attend our childhood events like dance recitals, concerts, games, etc. 

So I write this from the vantage point that if my parents said that they were moving out of state to see the world and travel because they raised us it would be incongruous with THEIR raising of their kids.  That THEY worked to have the grandparents as active participants in their kids lives and to not do the same would be sad at minimum.   I would be sad that my kids did not get to share in the same experiences that I did simply because my parents made the choice not to be there. 

And I also write this as someone with parents in their late 60s.   My mom is less physically fit and soon I vision additional accommodations needed for her to live in a two floor home with a basement.   My father does not want to admit that he's not a child and can't do the same things he used to.   As it is with them 1 hour away I wish they were closer for THEIR sake.  

Also, this isn't traveling abroad.   This is LIVING abroad.   This is not mom and dad spending two weeks in Europe and some time in Brazil followed by a tour in India just in one year.   The impression I get is that they don't plan to have a US zip code. 

LW gets to do what she wants and her daughters expectations were rude - full stop.    But I hope that LW doesn't regret missing her granddaughter's first steps because the Parthenon was more important. 

lovesclimbing

I read this and was so surprised. It's the same way I feel when people expect their parents to pay for their wedding or their college or their car. I just can't understand the level of entitlement that comes with expecting your parents to continue to support you financially when you're a grown adult. 

Now, if parents want to do this and bring it up themselves, fine. I've said before that my parents paid for a large portion of our wedding. But I never asked or brought it up. They offered, and we accepted. They never paid for college. There was a vehicle I drove while in high school, and it stayed there, and my younger siblings drove it. 

Both of our parents have no intentions of moving closer to us. One set never ever wants to because they don't like the area. Maybe they would if they were forced to (as in, can no longer take care of themselves). The other set still have careers where they live!

Also, are all their children going to live and stay living in the exact same area? Because there's only one set of parents and multiple children who will potentially have children. 

Neither set of our parents were there when our daughter was born, and they didn't see her until she was two months old. They have lives and jobs that preclude being able to travel during that time of year. They love having grandchildren and love visiting when they can and visit as much as they can, but their lives do not revolve around grandchildren, which is a positive thing. 

STARMOON44

banana468 said:

levioosa said:

banana468 said:

I'll echo @STARMOON44.   They are more than allowed to have their plans.

That said, I hope both mom and daughter have an understanding.  Maybe it's because my grandparents were there for my parents that I'd tilt my head and wonder why my mom and dad opted to just bolt when we had kids.   

This is pretty delicate but I think the LW sounds pretty glib about the entire thing.   Most people I know (my ILs included) want to be close to their children because they want to be active in the lives of their kids and grandkids.   These people have basically said that they don't have that desire.   And while these people are completely entitled to do what they want, that can sting.  

And with proximity in aging comes the ability to be able to care for aging parents.   Maybe that isn't an issue for these people but I think LW may also want to think the real long term.   My guess is that she and her H are in their 50s.   A lot can change.  They may be fine or they may start to enter the phase of needing replacement joints, heart problems or other issues that come with the aging process.  And when you tell your kids that your travel is priority one and they're priority 2 the message will be received loud and clear when you aren't able to move as well so please don't expect them to come to you quickly either.  

I disagree with a lot of this. They spent decades raising their kids. This is their time. They should get to do whatever they want. Traveling abroad is one of those things that gets less feasible the more you age. They don’t owe their kids anything. They raised their children. The kids now need to think about how to raise their own offspring without being entitled. That’s not LW saying her family doesn’t matter. And some of this is counting chickens. Maybe LW and her husband will get abroad and decide it’s not for them. Maybe they’ll get over there and love it. But holding them hostage to suck it up and provide childcare so it’s not a tit for tat situation? If their kids are going to be that petty, then they probably weren’t going to be the type to really be there for them in the long run anyways. 

I'm trying to advocate for both sides: the daughters are wrong to expect free babysitting.   Full stop - I agree with that.     

I am questioning how much time they plan on spending with the kids and if what they are planning to do is a shift from what their kids experienced.

Example: my grandparents may have watched us from time to time but they weren't free daily sitting.   But because we lived close to them we got to spend time with them frequently - from Saturday's for coffee and donuts to random Thursday dinners and they were able to attend our childhood events like dance recitals, concerts, games, etc. 

So I write this from the vantage point that if my parents said that they were moving out of state to see the world and travel because they raised us it would be incongruous with THEIR raising of their kids.  That THEY worked to have the grandparents as active participants in their kids lives and to not do the same would be sad at minimum.   I would be sad that my kids did not get to share in the same experiences that I did simply because my parents made the choice not to be there. 

And I also write this as someone with parents in their late 60s.   My mom is less physically fit and soon I vision additional accommodations needed for her to live in a two floor home with a basement.   My father does not want to admit that he's not a child and can't do the same things he used to.   As it is with them 1 hour away I wish they were closer for THEIR sake.  

Also, this isn't traveling abroad.   This is LIVING abroad.   This is not mom and dad spending two weeks in Europe and some time in Brazil followed by a tour in India just in one year.   The impression I get is that they don't plan to have a US zip code. 

LW gets to do what she wants and her daughters expectations were rude - full stop.    But I hope that LW doesn't regret missing her granddaughter's first steps because the Parthenon was more important. 

I bet she won’t! Most grandparents aren’t there for first steps. Living far away doesn’t make you less family. My parents move to the opposite side of the world from their parents and they still loved them and my grandparents loved me and everyone was caring and involved. Im not really here for the snide “Parthenon was more important” comment. No. Living their lives as they want to is important. Loving their grandkids is important. It’s not a competition