Wedding Woes
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Do I warn the others?

Dear Prudence,
I work in a high school. “Alex” and I sometimes socialize together, while “Byron” is friendly and gets on well with everyone but is married and doesn’t socialize much with other teachers. Last week, Alex revealed to me that about four months ago, Byron had asked for a loan of about $5,000 until next payday. Byron never repaid it, and every payday since, Byron has approached Alex and said he doesn’t have the money this month. Alex now feels foolish for lending the money. Two days ago, Alex emailed Byron asking for a repayment schedule. Byron has now promised to start repaying in May, although I strongly suspect this is another excuse.

Byron’s wife has been very ill for the past year or so, and he claimed this is what he needed the money for. Some aspects of his story don’t add up, but nothing can be proven. We live in a country with subsidized public health care. Byron is over 50 and always seemed to be financially comfortable over the few years we have worked together. We are quite well-paid for teachers. I suspect Byron is in debt for reasons he is ashamed of and perhaps his wife doesn’t even know, although I have no proof. In any case, Byron was dishonest when he claimed he would pay the money back next payday. I have two concerns. First, that Byron may ask other teachers for a loan, as no one else knows about this. Second, that Byron is in serious financial trouble and in denial to himself and everyone—loan shark, gambling, or something like that. My options are to keep quiet and let Alex deal with it, quietly warn other teachers I consider vulnerable not to lend money to anyone, or see if Byron is willing to talk about it. I suspect Byron would tell me the same suspicious story he told Alex. Any advice?
—Concerned High School Teacher

Re: Do I warn the others?

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    Yes butt out. This isn’t your business. 
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    This isn’t your business; it’s between Alex and Byron. You need to stay out of it and let them handle the details. Everyone here is an adult and can make decisions about whether or not they want to loan money, which always carries a risk of not being repaid. 

    And if Byron is in trouble with a loan shark and he’s being exploited (is this seriously a thing?) then if, and only it, he comes to you for help you can go with him to a consumer protection bureau, the police, a financial counselor. But no, you cannot tell other people his personal business. 
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    Ro041Ro041 member
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    Ohhhhh this person is begging for an excuse to become the busy-body s/he is hoping to be.  Just stay out of it.  

    Also, you never lend out money you expect to get back.  Everyone knows that.

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    Not your circus, not your monkeys. 
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    ei34ei34 member
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    Ditto everyone else, I’d stay out of it.

    And I hate to victim-blame but $5000 is a LOT of money to loan anyone.  I mean I feel bad for Alex and I do hope they get their money back, but yikes.
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    Not your circus not your monkeys.  

    I feel bad because it sounds like Byron abused Alex's trust and I wonder if Alex saw him as an easy mark.

    The ONLY thing that I would consider doing is should Alex bring it up again, ask Alex if he has considered consulting anyone for legal help.    He may be SOL though.
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    This is not even a little bit LW's problem. How ridiculous that they felt the need to write Prudie about something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
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    I agree with PPs that the LW should mind their own business and not spread around the story to other colleagues.  With the one caveat of, if someone else mentions to him/her that they are considering loaning Byron money, they then either tell this cautionary tale or tell the person they really need to talk to Alex, before proceeding.

    The whole thing is so sad.  Not just because the guy isn't voluntarily even trying to pay back the loan, but because he bold-faced lied to Alex and conned him.  And now they have to still work together!  What an unbelievably sh***y person.  

    Yet, you'd probably be surprised how many people in this world are just like that, when it comes to money.  Bite the hand that feeds them.  Play up the sympathy card hard when they need help/money but, in return, couldn't give two sh**s about how they've screwed over the very person who generously helped them out. 
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    Ro041Ro041 member
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    I just....wish I had the kind of money where I could spare $5k to loan a casual coworker.  

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    I would probably offer to Alex the suggestion of formalizing the repayment schedule, if that is the route Alex wants to try first.  I think the repayment schedule needs to outline the full circumstances of the loan.

    Alex loaned Byron $5k on X date.  Repayment was promised on Y date, but not paid.  This promissory note, dated today, between Alex and Byron states that Byron is to begin repayment on Z date.  The amount of $200 is due every 2 weeks until final payment is made.  There will be no pre-payment penalty. 

    A second sheet of the note should outline every payment date, amount and new balance - if paid on time.  Like an amortization sheet for a mortgage.

    They should both sign the note in front of a notary, even if it costs a couple bucks at a bank.  This will help secure Alex even further. 

    Alex may also be able to pursue repayment via small claims court, but the amount he is owed may be too much to fully recover.

    If these people lived in the U.S., the (below) are some options.  And, wherever they live, may have similar laws and procedures.

    It's a good idea and better than nothing.  Even better, if their workplace would be willing, they could set it up where the loan payment is automatically taken out of Alex's check and the money deposited in Byron's account or he is sent a check.  It's not just child support and wage garnishments that can be done this way.  Almost anything can, as long as an employer and that employee are willing.

    If their employer isn't willing, he could tell Alex to set up auto-draft from his account that automatically deposits to Byron's.  And it's time for hardball ultimatums.  As in, either Alex agrees to that or Byron is suing for all of it at once in small claims.  Because Alex has proven himself to be nothing but a liar and can't be trusted.  Byron needs to take off the "nice guy" hat and change his attitude to "take no prisoners".  At least legally speaking.  

    He should be able to get all or most in a small claims suit.  Collecting on it would be the next hard part, but at least Alex has a wage that can be garnished.  And Alex's credit will be destroyed if he has an unpaid judgement on his report.  Though I'm guessing it's already destroyed and he may not care.

    If there's debt left, either because of a small claims limit or Alex still doesn't pay, a last ditch effort when Byron has given up, is to forgive the debt.  But forgiven debt is income that needs to be reported to the IRS.  So he can give Alex a warning about that.  It might be the incentive Alex needs to just pay it, instead of it messing with his taxes and possibly even bump him to the next bracket.
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    This should have been worked out before the money was given js...  
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    I find it amusing that LW felt the need to write to Prudie about something that doesn't involve them at all. If anyone is going to warn others at the school about Byron, let Alex be the one to do it since they're the one this happened to. LW needs to stay out of it.
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    mrsconn23 said:
    Not only does LW think they should meddle, disclose information that isn't theirs to tell, and is making situational assumptions about both the lender and lendee, but they also think that they work with a bunch of patsies that will be taken for a ride unless LW saves them.  GTFO yourself LW.  It's time to stop inserting yourself by asking Alex about it (likely scenario) OR tell Alex that you don't want to hear any more about the money situation and he has to figure it out with Byron. 
    I sincerely hope this was Prudie's response. Or at least something along the lines of "not your problem" and not addressing the loan itself at all. 
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    Prudie should have went harder on LW and been very clear it's none of their business. 

    Your best bet is to encourage Alex to look into his legal options for recovering his money—although he should probably assume that it’s gone for good and may decide it’s not worth spending any extra time or money in small claims court (or its equivalent in your country). Whatever he decides to do, you don’t have standing to take Byron aside and say, “Hey, you really need to pay Alex back. By the way, have you been lying about your wife being sick? Because you always seemed well-off to me.” There’s no incentive for him to tell you the truth, assuming that he is lying. There’s always the possibility that he really doesn’t have the money. I have sympathy for Alex, but he offered a colleague a substantial personal loan without signing anything or determining a repayment schedule beforehand, and I think he ought to have seen some of this coming. Regardless, you can’t fix this situation for him. I do think you have grounds to warn some of your colleagues against extending Byron another loan if he approaches them, especially if they’re tenderhearted and not especially well-fixed themselves. Double-check with Alex first to make sure he’s comfortable with your mentioning it, but if Byron was willing to do it to one co-worker, he’s likely willing to do it to another.
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    mrsconn23 said:
    Prudie should have went harder on LW and been very clear it's none of their business. 

    Your best bet is to encourage Alex to look into his legal options for recovering his money—although he should probably assume that it’s gone for good and may decide it’s not worth spending any extra time or money in small claims court (or its equivalent in your country). Whatever he decides to do, you don’t have standing to take Byron aside and say, “Hey, you really need to pay Alex back. By the way, have you been lying about your wife being sick? Because you always seemed well-off to me.” There’s no incentive for him to tell you the truth, assuming that he is lying. There’s always the possibility that he really doesn’t have the money. I have sympathy for Alex, but he offered a colleague a substantial personal loan without signing anything or determining a repayment schedule beforehand, and I think he ought to have seen some of this coming. Regardless, you can’t fix this situation for him. I do think you have grounds to warn some of your colleagues against extending Byron another loan if he approaches them, especially if they’re tenderhearted and not especially well-fixed themselves. Double-check with Alex first to make sure he’s comfortable with your mentioning it, but if Byron was willing to do it to one co-worker, he’s likely willing to do it to another.
    WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF No, Prudie! No!
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    mrsconn23 said:
    Prudie should have went harder on LW and been very clear it's none of their business. 

    Your best bet is to encourage Alex to look into his legal options for recovering his money—although he should probably assume that it’s gone for good and may decide it’s not worth spending any extra time or money in small claims court (or its equivalent in your country). Whatever he decides to do, you don’t have standing to take Byron aside and say, “Hey, you really need to pay Alex back. By the way, have you been lying about your wife being sick? Because you always seemed well-off to me.” There’s no incentive for him to tell you the truth, assuming that he is lying. There’s always the possibility that he really doesn’t have the money. I have sympathy for Alex, but he offered a colleague a substantial personal loan without signing anything or determining a repayment schedule beforehand, and I think he ought to have seen some of this coming. Regardless, you can’t fix this situation for him. I do think you have grounds to warn some of your colleagues against extending Byron another loan if he approaches them, especially if they’re tenderhearted and not especially well-fixed themselves. Double-check with Alex first to make sure he’s comfortable with your mentioning it, but if Byron was willing to do it to one co-worker, he’s likely willing to do it to another.
    Darn it!  I see now I've been flip-flopping the names, lol.

    At least he advises the LW not to talk to Byron about it.  But then encouraging the LW to spread it around the workplace, smh.  Like the old saying, "Don't borrow trouble."
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    S+S - I don't think it was just you!  But we all were picking up what you were laying down!  LOL!

    This answer is just another reason why this Prudie does not work for me.  He gives half answers and is afraid to tell someone to mind their own business when its required, like this letter!

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    S+S - I don't think it was just you!  But we all were picking up what you were laying down!  LOL!

    This answer is just another reason why this Prudie does not work for me.  He gives half answers and is afraid to tell someone to mind their own business when its required, like this letter!

    Sometimes I can be a bad influence :D, lol.
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    mrsconn23 said:
    Not only does LW think they should meddle, disclose information that isn't theirs to tell, and is making situational assumptions about both the lender and lendee, but they also think that they work with a bunch of patsies that will be taken for a ride unless LW saves them.  GTFO yourself LW.  It's time to stop inserting yourself by asking Alex about it (likely scenario) OR tell Alex that you don't want to hear any more about the money situation and he has to figure it out with Byron. 
    And if LW does interfere, it could very well bite them in the ass at work.
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    Another vote for MYOB. 
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