We’ve done a whole month of counseling together and separately and there has been no progress and subsequent lying at a recent bachelor trip attended.
I don’t think I’m the problem at this point.
Nah. If you're in counseling, coming to an outside source to try and get validation is not a great move on your part. This is an issue to take your counselor, and maybe also start moving into individual as well as couple counseling. You're welcome to vent, but that's not what you're doing, you're looking for validation.
We’ve done a whole month of counseling together and separately and there has been no progress and subsequent lying at a recent bachelor trip attended.
I don’t think I’m the problem at this point.
So, I would absolutely view this as cheating, but there’s no court for this. It doesn’t matter what any of us think. You need to decide if you want to work to forgive him and continue the relationship or not
How do you forgive something like this? How do you move forward? What does moving forward look like? How do you move forward and not look like an idiot?
I don't think "looking like an idiot" or not should be your primary concern.
Possible helpful concerns: A ) Can you trust him (I think the answer right now is definitely no)? What can he possibly do to earn back that trust? B ) Can you forgive him for lying? Do you want to?
If you're focused on "I was deceived, now I look dumb for trusting him again" then you will neither trust him or forgive him. You have to figure those two out first. What other people may or may not think about your marriage should honestly not be a factor.
How do you forgive something like this? How do you move forward? What does moving forward look like? How do you move forward and not look like an idiot?
Literally all questions for a therapist. I'm not trying to be mean. And asking those questions is absolutely normal. I just think that you actually want answer from us and that's not a good idea for you or your marriage.
We’ve done a whole month of counseling together and separately and there has been no progress and subsequent lying at a recent bachelor trip attended.
I don’t think I’m the problem at this point.
What was the situation at the recent bachelor party?
So a lot of this makes me ask: -What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage? -Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party? -Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship? -When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system? -Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
I cannot tell anything about your overall relationship here.
I will admit that I only skimmed this post. With the new info today, I’d say I wouldn’t like it. I’ll be in the minority here and say it’s cheating.
are you willing to forgive? You’re both going to a couples counselor, right? Is he genuine? Does he really feel bad? Does he want to go to therapy or is he going only for you? Read your H and decide if you two can work it out. It’ll only work if both of you want it to.
I just feel like forgiving this continuous bad behavior makes me some stupid sad girl.
You’re really the only one who can decide whether you believe that this was a one time (or two time) thing; or if this is going to keep happening in the future. And really you’re can’t know for sure.
Do you think he’s sincere? Do you think that he’s going to respect the boundaries you two decide together for what is okay (and not okay) in and out of your marriage? If that’s the case, great! Then you do need to decide to put it behind and move forward. No bringing it up when you’re mad about something else. No holding it over his head.
But if you don't think he's sincere, or if he is lying about other things, or if it keeps happening. Then you have to decide if this is the life you want with him or not.
It sounds like you’re really hurt and your feelings are absolutely valid! It’s okay to feel hurt here.
How do you forgive something like this? How do you move forward? What does moving forward look like? How do you move forward and not look like an idiot?
Literally all questions for a therapist. I'm not trying to be mean. And asking those questions is absolutely normal. I just think that you actually want answer from us and that's not a good idea for you or your marriage.
If your marriage is going to work then you cannot walk to him with this gun you're attempting to load with virtual bullets of ammunition from a group of internet strangers.
Are you seeing the therapist alone? Do you have a therapist just for you?
I still don't see this as cheating, but that's me. I think the lying is the issue and yes, I do see that as an issue. You not liking strippers is secondary to me and something that I think you might need to find a compromise with him on. However, the lying makes compromise hard, so you're stuck in a spin, so I get it. But I would recommend trying to keep the main issue (lying) the focus. it's the lying that cost your trust.
I have to admit, I'm damned curious about how often strippers are coming up. Are y'all the first married in a big group of guys? Maybe this is my age or my cohorts showing, but I honestly can't remember many bachelor parties that had strippers when most of my male friends were getting married, so the stripper interactions were minimal. This man seems to be getting a lot of stripper interactions.
I saw a therapist for myself a few times. She told me a was a manipulative, verbally abuse alcoholic.
Are you seeing a therapist for yourself? A few times is not really a time to consider yourself in therapy. This isn't an acute problem like a strep throat that can be resolved in a few sessions.
Again, I'm going to ask:
-What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage? -Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party? -Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship? -When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system? -Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
His reasoning for getting the stripper was so everyone would think his bachelor party was awesome.
He doesn’t think he did anything wrong, but feels badly because I am hurt.
You didn't answer all the questions:
What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage? -Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party? -Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship? -When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system? -Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
-What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage?
He thought they were okay and just the usual part of a bachelor party.
-Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party?
Prior: please no strippers or strip clubs. It’s makes me uncomfortable. I don’t want that at what you have described as a a celebration of our marriage. It would make me want to cancel the wedding if you went and did this behind my back. Please no strippers.
Recent: if this happens please skip going out that night or at least call and talk to me about it if you’re the only one not going. Please don’t participate. I just want honesty and for you to not do anything to disrespect our marriage.
-Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship?
He gets defensive in conflict. He was generally a good bff and fi...a little too interested in partying but I’m less outgoing in personality.
-When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system?
Depends if there is something going on with his friends as to whether I am a priority.
He shows affection.
I show him affection by making sure the house is clean and allowing him to go spend time with his friends.
Sex is not on the table.
-Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
He he has only showed remorse based on the fact that I am upset about this. Not based on his choices and actions. “I am sorry that this has upset you. I don’t like to see you upset.”
@VarunaTT there have been strippers and/or strip clubs at every bachelor party. He’s the second to last to get married. Just finding out this was the case...something he has continuously lied about.
I saw a therapist for myself a few times. She told me a was a manipulative, verbally abuse alcoholic.
She said those words exactly? Out loud? To you? If so, she's a shitty therapist and should be reported.
Any therapist worth their salt will validate your feelings and work with you on yourself and certainly not diagnose anyone you bring up in therapy with anything since they don't know them.
The rest? I seriously don't even know what to say.
"allowing him to go spend time with his friends" -- hard no. He's an adult, you each have time for yourselves and you have time together. You do not allow another adult to do a damn thing.
"little too interested in partying -- depends on friends if I"m a priority" -- okay, you knew this going in. So, this is on you, TBH. So, you're either going to accept him for who he is right now or you're not. And it's really okay if you're not interested in that, but y'all will either find a compromise for it or you'll divorce over it.
B/c again, you do not have the right to "allow" your husband to do or not do anything. And, TBH, that's why he's lying. You are both wrong in some things, which is why I keep saying more counseling and I absolutely agree with @banana468 saying you're looking to load up with people who agree with you to knock him down.
@VarunaTT I used the word allow because I have a child and she should be priority and free for all social lives isn’t really a thing when it comes to a kid, IMO.
I saw a therapist for myself a few times. She told me a was a manipulative, verbally abuse alcoholic.
She said those words exactly? Out loud? To you? If so, she's a shitty therapist and should be reported.
Any therapist worth their salt will validate your feelings and work with you on yourself and certainly not diagnose anyone you bring up in therapy with anything since they don't know them.
The rest? I seriously don't even know what to say.
-There have been strippers at every bachelor party? If so I can understand his desire not to upset the bro applecart but also did you know this at all?
Honestly, I don't think you two should be married. And I don't say this because I think he's cheated. I don't think he has cheated. But based on what you say:
-Your feelings about strippers are known and it sounds like he's choosing to placate you in the hopes you don't find out. (insinuations are mine).
-The way you handle affection is really inappropriate: I show him affection by making sure the house is clean and allowing him to go spend time with his friends. -Whether or not the house is clean is a sign of how your home is. Is his love language cleanliness? -If your husband is a grown man, him going out with friends is not something a spouse allows.
Sex is not on the table. -Also a big red flag here.
Based on all of this, neither of you are conducting yourselves in a way that is going to make a marriage successful. He seems to do what he wants and hopes to not get caught. And if sex is not on the table because of this issue and not something medical and you're saying no to it you are withholding the marital act. That's weaponizing sex and hardly something to commend.
Neither one of you are to be commended and neither one of you seem to want to make your marriage work. So instead of seeking a therapist seek a divorce attorney. You want this marriage to be on your rather than mutual terms and he wants to do what he wants to do. Nothing in any of this tells me that either of you want to do anything unifying.
So you have my unneeded permission to stop. But know that if your marriage ends, both of you are to blame.
"allowing him to go spend time with his friends" -- hard no. He's an adult, you each have time for yourselves and you have time together. You do not allow another adult to do a damn thing.
"little too interested in partying -- depends on friends if I"m a priority" -- okay, you knew this going in. So, this is on you, TBH. So, you're either going to accept him for who he is right now or you're not. And it's really okay if you're not interested in that, but y'all will either find a compromise for it or you'll divorce over it.
B/c again, you do not have the right to "allow" your husband to do or not do anything. And, TBH, that's why he's lying. You are both wrong in some things, which is why I keep saying more counseling and I absolutely agree with @banana468 saying you're looking to load up with people who agree with you to knock him down.
I’m with you up to this part. He’s lying because he’s choosing to lie. Not because of what she does, or doesn’t, do.
No one allows me to do anything in my marriage, and I don’t allow my husband either because that’s not how things work in our world. I do agree that this idea that you have to “allow” your spouse to do things can lead to some major problems. But again his choice to lie is exactly that, he choice. She didn’t force or cause him to do it.
@VarunaTT I used the word allow because I have a child and she should be priority and free for all social lives isn’t really a thing when it comes to a kid, IMO.
Free for all social lives? Exactly what kind of a guy is your H? How many nights a week/month is he out of the house? Do YOU have a child or is this your child together with your H? And do YOU ever go out or want to or do you think that having a child means that you stop having a social life?
@VarunaTT I used the word allow because I have a child and she should be priority and free for all social lives isn’t really a thing when it comes to a kid, IMO.
So the whole time you knew you were pregnant (8-10 months, depending on how early you found out and/or if you were trying), y'all never had an 'after the baby comes' conversation about life in general? Your social lives? How things will change?
Do you have a social life? Do you go out with friends? Do you see that as him 'letting' you?
Becoming a parent doesn't mean life stops. It changes, but things do not have to orbit around the fact that you're parents. Your still the people you were before. But if you never actually had a conversation (or 10) about it at all, and you've pulled this passive aggressive, "Oh I'll allow him..." thought process...I can see how he basically does an end-run around you any chance he gets.
Put your big girl panties on and own up to your shit. It's not all on you, but newsflash: you're 50% of it. Therefore, if this goes down the tubes...you own half.
@mrsconn23 she was 4 when we met. We had plenty of conversations about what life would be like once we moved in together. He just decided to not change his lifestyle.
I have an adequate social life.
Its always a courtesy “ask” or “allow” not necessary but a (now) 7yo notices when her parental figure isn’t around on weekend activities or is too hungover to play.
"allowing him to go spend time with his friends" -- hard no. He's an adult, you each have time for yourselves and you have time together. You do not allow another adult to do a damn thing.
"little too interested in partying -- depends on friends if I"m a priority" -- okay, you knew this going in. So, this is on you, TBH. So, you're either going to accept him for who he is right now or you're not. And it's really okay if you're not interested in that, but y'all will either find a compromise for it or you'll divorce over it.
B/c again, you do not have the right to "allow" your husband to do or not do anything. And, TBH, that's why he's lying. You are both wrong in some things, which is why I keep saying more counseling and I absolutely agree with @banana468 saying you're looking to load up with people who agree with you to knock him down.
I’m with you up to this part. He’s lying because he’s choosing to lie. Not because of what she does, or doesn’t, do.
No one allows me to do anything in my marriage, and I don’t allow my husband either because that’s not how things work in our world. I do agree that this idea that you have to “allow” your spouse to do things can lead to some major problems. But again his choice to lie is exactly that, he choice. She didn’t force or cause him to do it.
I agree with you. The lying is not her fault, at all. It's absolutely his choice to be doing that.
And I'm not quite sure how to frame this: so while she's not responsible for his actions, they are both responsible for the situation? Does that make sense? And neither are owning up to creating the situation and their behaviors into and out of the situation. Rinse, repeat for situation (and it's a pattern, I'm sure it's not just applicable to stripper parties).
Re: Hubby lied about stripper @ Bach party
Possible helpful concerns:
A ) Can you trust him (I think the answer right now is definitely no)? What can he possibly do to earn back that trust?
B ) Can you forgive him for lying? Do you want to?
If you're focused on "I was deceived, now I look dumb for trusting him again" then you will neither trust him or forgive him. You have to figure those two out first. What other people may or may not think about your marriage should honestly not be a factor.
So a lot of this makes me ask:
-What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage?
-Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party?
-Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship?
-When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system?
-Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
I cannot tell anything about your overall relationship here.
are you willing to forgive? You’re both going to a couples counselor, right? Is he genuine? Does he really feel bad? Does he want to go to therapy or is he going only for you? Read your H and decide if you two can work it out. It’ll only work if both of you want it to.
Do you think he’s sincere? Do you think that he’s going to respect the boundaries you two decide together for what is okay (and not okay) in and out of your marriage? If that’s the case, great! Then you do need to decide to put it behind and move forward. No bringing it up when you’re mad about something else. No holding it over his head.
But if you don't think he's sincere, or if he is lying about other things, or if it keeps happening. Then you have to decide if this is the life you want with him or not.
It sounds like you’re really hurt and your feelings are absolutely valid! It’s okay to feel hurt here.
Are you seeing the therapist alone? Do you have a therapist just for you?
I have to admit, I'm damned curious about how often strippers are coming up. Are y'all the first married in a big group of guys? Maybe this is my age or my cohorts showing, but I honestly can't remember many bachelor parties that had strippers when most of my male friends were getting married, so the stripper interactions were minimal. This man seems to be getting a lot of stripper interactions.
Again, I'm going to ask:
-What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage?
-Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party?
-Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship?
-When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system?
-Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
His reasoning for getting the stripper was so everyone would think his bachelor party was awesome.
He doesn’t think he did anything wrong, but feels badly because I am hurt.
What has your H's opinion of strippers been prior to your marriage?
-Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party?
-Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship?
-When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system?
-Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
You didn’t need it. But it seems like what you are looking for. If you feel you can’t get over it, then there is your answer.
He thought they were okay and just the usual part of a bachelor party.
-Can you try to clarify what you said to him about strippers both prior to his and then this most recent bachelor party?
Prior: please no strippers or strip clubs. It’s makes me uncomfortable. I don’t want that at what you have described as a a celebration of our marriage. It would make me want to cancel the wedding if you went and did this behind my back. Please no strippers.
Recent: if this happens please skip going out that night or at least call and talk to me about it if you’re the only one not going. Please don’t participate. I just want honesty and for you to not do anything to disrespect our marriage.
-Aside from this situation, how was he as a BF and a FI and now as a H? How does he handle conflict or concerns in the relationship?
He gets defensive in conflict. He was generally a good bff and fi...a little too interested in partying but I’m less outgoing in personality.
-When you are together are you a priority? How does he show you affection? How do you show HIM affection? Has sex before or since been used by you as a weapon or reward system?
Depends if there is something going on with his friends as to whether I am a priority.
He shows affection.
I show him affection by making sure the house is clean and allowing him to go spend time with his friends.
Sex is not on the table.
-Has he showed remorse because he lead you to believe something or is he showing remorse because he was caught?
He he has only showed remorse based on the fact that I am upset about this. Not based on his choices and actions. “I am sorry that this has upset you. I don’t like to see you upset.”
Any therapist worth their salt will validate your feelings and work with you on yourself and certainly not diagnose anyone you bring up in therapy with anything since they don't know them.
The rest? I seriously don't even know what to say.
"allowing him to go spend time with his friends" -- hard no. He's an adult, you each have time for yourselves and you have time together. You do not allow another adult to do a damn thing.
"little too interested in partying -- depends on friends if I"m a priority" -- okay, you knew this going in. So, this is on you, TBH. So, you're either going to accept him for who he is right now or you're not. And it's really okay if you're not interested in that, but y'all will either find a compromise for it or you'll divorce over it.
B/c again, you do not have the right to "allow" your husband to do or not do anything. And, TBH, that's why he's lying. You are both wrong in some things, which is why I keep saying more counseling and I absolutely agree with @banana468 saying you're looking to load up with people who agree with you to knock him down.
Honestly, I don't think you two should be married. And I don't say this because I think he's cheated. I don't think he has cheated. But based on what you say:
-Your feelings about strippers are known and it sounds like he's choosing to placate you in the hopes you don't find out. (insinuations are mine).
-The way you handle affection is really inappropriate:
I show him affection by making sure the house is clean and allowing him to go spend time with his friends.
-Whether or not the house is clean is a sign of how your home is. Is his love language cleanliness?
-If your husband is a grown man, him going out with friends is not something a spouse allows.
Sex is not on the table.
-Also a big red flag here.
Based on all of this, neither of you are conducting yourselves in a way that is going to make a marriage successful. He seems to do what he wants and hopes to not get caught. And if sex is not on the table because of this issue and not something medical and you're saying no to it you are withholding the marital act. That's weaponizing sex and hardly something to commend.
Neither one of you are to be commended and neither one of you seem to want to make your marriage work. So instead of seeking a therapist seek a divorce attorney. You want this marriage to be on your rather than mutual terms and he wants to do what he wants to do. Nothing in any of this tells me that either of you want to do anything unifying.
So you have my unneeded permission to stop. But know that if your marriage ends, both of you are to blame.
No one allows me to do anything in my marriage, and I don’t allow my husband either because that’s not how things work in our world. I do agree that this idea that you have to “allow” your spouse to do things can lead to some major problems. But again his choice to lie is exactly that, he choice. She didn’t force or cause him to do it.
She is mine.
I get drinks with friends probably once a once a month or once every couple of weeks.
Do you have a social life? Do you go out with friends? Do you see that as him 'letting' you?
Becoming a parent doesn't mean life stops. It changes, but things do not have to orbit around the fact that you're parents. Your still the people you were before. But if you never actually had a conversation (or 10) about it at all, and you've pulled this passive aggressive, "Oh I'll allow him..." thought process...I can see how he basically does an end-run around you any chance he gets.
Put your big girl panties on and own up to your shit. It's not all on you, but newsflash: you're 50% of it. Therefore, if this goes down the tubes...you own half.
I have an adequate social life.
Its always a courtesy “ask” or “allow” not necessary but a (now) 7yo notices when her parental figure isn’t around on weekend activities or is too hungover to play.
And I'm not quite sure how to frame this: so while she's not responsible for his actions, they are both responsible for the situation? Does that make sense? And neither are owning up to creating the situation and their behaviors into and out of the situation. Rinse, repeat for situation (and it's a pattern, I'm sure it's not just applicable to stripper parties).