"It just never worked out for me."

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

I’m a 43-year-old woman with no biological kids of my own. I wanted them but faced many obstacles (poverty, health problems, a reluctant partner, a troubled stepson) that kept me from having any. In retrospect, I could have probably made it happen, but I didn’t, and that’s just how things are. This makes me sad, but I’ve made my peace with it—for the most part. Some of my friends and people in my family seem to assume that I never wanted kids. So I get comments like “You love sleeping in on the weekends? It’s a good thing you never wanted kids!” that are innocuous enough but still knock the breath out of me.

Recently, my sister was venting about our parents and said, “It’s telling that neither of us ever wanted kids of our own!” Well, I did, and it hurts me that people might think that my lack of biological children is a commentary on my (mostly happy) childhood. I didn’t say anything at the time, but I’m wondering what I could have said that wouldn’t have derailed the conversation or invited a reexamination of what could have been. Do I need to tell people they’ve got me all wrong? Or are these sorts of comments just one more thing I should make my peace with?

—Childless by Circumstance

banana468

"Oh I think it's rather presumptuous to believe that not having something is the same thing as not wanting it." 

MissKittyDanger

Urg this is just like the comments of having more kids ....

My mum gets these comments all the time because she's so good with kids. "Oh you should have had more kids"
Should have. Couldn't. Barely made it through delivery with me.

Commentary on people's life styles should be kept to themselves.

missJeanLouise

I feel like wether this is something LW should make peace with or say something about all depends on LW’s personality. I would probably let it go, my sister would need to say something. But also, no one will know any differently if LW doesn’t say anything.

short+sassy

I think that is entirely up to the LW.

I'm a little surprised that close friends and family don't already know that she had wanted kids, but life just didn't work out that way for her.  The fact that they don't, leads me to assume that she has been very private about those feelings.  So if she hasn't wanted to share that info before, then there is no reason she should now if she still isn't comfortable.

Maybe she would be more comfortable with a half-truth to hopefully stem those type of comments for the future.  Like, "Actually, I sometimes have regrets that I won't be a mother (or, I've actually never said I did not want children) and would appreciate it if you don't make comments like that."

For more casual friends/acquaintances, it's probably easiest to just nod, bean-dip, and move on.

However, as a general comment...why, WHY?!?!  Do so many people feel the need to ask questions or make assumptive comments about someone else's having/not having children.  There can be so many very private issues going on.  Like the LW's.  Or people struggling with infertility.  And these seemingly innocuous questions will cruelly rip open wounds. 

flantastic

I don't get a ton of comments like this, but if/when I do, I feel like I'll just respond with, "That's quite an assumption."

banana468

short+sassy said:

I think that is entirely up to the LW.

I'm a little surprised that close friends and family don't already know that she had wanted kids, but life just didn't work out that way for her.  The fact that they don't, leads me to assume that she has been very private about those feelings.  So if she hasn't wanted to share that info before, then there is no reason she should now if she still isn't comfortable.

Maybe she would be more comfortable with a half-truth to hopefully stem those type of comments for the future.  Like, "Actually, I sometimes have regrets that I won't be a mother (or, I've actually never said I did not want children) and would appreciate it if you don't make comments like that."

For more casual friends/acquaintances, it's probably easiest to just nod, bean-dip, and move on.

However, as a general comment...why, WHY?!?!  Do so many people feel the need to ask questions or make assumptive comments about someone else's having/not having children.  There can be so many very private issues going on.  Like the LW's.  Or people struggling with infertility.  And these seemingly innocuous questions will cruelly rip open wounds. 

After what my BIL and SIL are still going through as they grieve the loss of their child people have had the audacity to ask if they think they'll have another or if someone will be making a permanent surgical change.   Those asking are people I love but who seem to have zero tact. 

MissKittyDanger

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

flantastic

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

I mostly just don't ask. I volunteer my own stuff and let them volunteer theirs, or not. You could say once, "If you ever want to tell me about how your plans for your family are going, know that I love you and would be happy to support you in whatever. But if you want to keep that totally private I understand completely."

charlotte989875

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

I mean as someone without kids, who at some point might want kids, I just feel Iike why are we asking? If you’re close to me and the subject of kids comes up I’ll talk about my feelings/plans/whatever. If we’re not close then IDK why someone would be asking. If you feel like your friends want to talk about this I think a “what are your thoughts on kids” is fine, leaves it open to them answering in anyway they want. But yeah there’s not a good way to ask this IMO. 

I hate this (bolded), and it’s a totally personal  pet peeve, but who says my H and I aren’t a family? I know MKD that’s not what you’re saying here but the implication that the only way you have a family is with kids (and ergo if it’s just two of you you’re not a family) really grinds my gears. 

banana468

I try not to ask and generally it only comes up in conversation that involve plans unless I already know.   Like, "DH and I did it this way because we knew that unless there were biological issues kids were in the big picture for us.   If that's on the horizon for you then considering X when buying that car can help." 

But if there's anything I learn more as I age it's just to flat out shut my mouth and know that it's not any of my business until/unless someone volunteers that information.  

cupcait927

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

You don't. Plain and simple. You have no idea what someone is going through - infertility, miscarriage, adoption struggles, etc. You let your friends offer that information up themselves. H and I are finally pregnant, but it took a year of trying. I'm so grateful that very, very few people asked us during that time about our plans to have children because it was an incredibly hard time in our lives and I didn't need additional reminders of our struggle. I apologize if this is coming off somewhat harsh, but it's just something you don't need to ask. And like @charlotte989875 said, who's to say that H and I weren't a family already? I certainly thought of us as a family.

charlotte989875

cupcait927 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

You don't. Plain and simple. You have no idea what someone is going through - infertility, miscarriage, adoption struggles, etc. You let your friends offer that information up themselves. H and I are finally pregnant, but it took a year of trying. I'm so grateful that very, very few people asked us during that time about our plans to have children because it was an incredibly hard time in our lives and I didn't need additional reminders of our struggle. I apologize if this is coming off somewhat harsh, but it's just something you don't need to ask. And like @ch@charlotte989875, who's to say that H and I weren't a family already? I certainly thought of us as a family.

Congratulations!!! I don’t know if you had shared this before so I’m sorry if I missed it! That’s fantastic news!!!

MissKittyDanger

charlotte989875 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

I mean as someone without kids, who at some point might want kids, I just feel Iike why are we asking? If you’re close to me and the subject of kids comes up I’ll talk about my feelings/plans/whatever. If we’re not close then IDK why someone would be asking. If you feel like your friends want to talk about this I think a “what are your thoughts on kids” is fine, leaves it open to them answering in anyway they want. But yeah there’s not a good way to ask this IMO. 

I hate this (bolded), and it’s a totally personal  pet peeve, but who says my H and I aren’t a family? I know MKD that’s not what you’re saying here but the implication that the only way you have a family is with kids (and ergo if it’s just two of you you’re not a family) really grinds my gears. 

Would "adding to your family" be better term?

cupcait927

@charlotte989875 Thank you! I haven't mentioned anything here yet so you didn't miss anything

CharmedPam

My H had the mindset that family = kids in the mix too.  The other day i said “our family” in a random conversation we were having.  Be looked confused and said “family?” and had to confirm that yes, we are a family.  

MissKittyDanger

cupcait927 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

You don't. Plain and simple. You have no idea what someone is going through - infertility, miscarriage, adoption struggles, etc. You let your friends offer that information up themselves. H and I are finally pregnant, but it took a year of trying. I'm so grateful that very, very few people asked us during that time about our plans to have children because it was an incredibly hard time in our lives and I didn't need additional reminders of our struggle. I apologize if this is coming off somewhat harsh, but it's just something you don't need to ask. And like @charlotte989875, who's to say that H and I weren't a family already? I certainly thought of us as a family.

I honestly only ask close friends - those who would have told me if they had miscarried, infertility, etc issues or those who I know would feel comfortable to tell me if there was a situation.
It should be noted I already know of 2 situations, so I would not ask unless they brought it up in conversation.

short+sassy

flantastic said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

I mostly just don't ask. I volunteer my own stuff and let them volunteer theirs, or not. You could say once, "If you ever want to tell me about how your plans for your family are going, know that I love you and would be happy to support you in whatever. But if you want to keep that totally private I understand completely."

I agree.  If it is something people don't mind talking about, they'll usually volunteer their own information.

For example, I'm going to make up a scenario and steal from something you said in your daily post, @MissKittyDanger, lol.  You're talking to a good friend who doesn't have any children:

You:  "I can't believe how independent BabyKitten is getting! She walked up the front steps of her daycare for the first time today, instead of having me pick her up like she's always wanted in the past!"

Friend:  "Ah!  That's so cute!  You know, we're not quite there yet, but H and I are thinking about trying in another year or so.  How do you like that daycare center?  Would you recommend it?"
Or
Friend:  "I just love the BabyKitten stories!  She's is just adorable.  But, ya know, I don't think I'm going to have kids myself.  Neither my H nor I have ever felt that need and it still hasn't changed."

MyNameIsNot

MissKittyDanger said:

charlotte989875 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

I mean as someone without kids, who at some point might want kids, I just feel Iike why are we asking? If you’re close to me and the subject of kids comes up I’ll talk about my feelings/plans/whatever. If we’re not close then IDK why someone would be asking. If you feel like your friends want to talk about this I think a “what are your thoughts on kids” is fine, leaves it open to them answering in anyway they want. But yeah there’s not a good way to ask this IMO. 

I hate this (bolded), and it’s a totally personal  pet peeve, but who says my H and I aren’t a family? I know MKD that’s not what you’re saying here but the implication that the only way you have a family is with kids (and ergo if it’s just two of you you’re not a family) really grinds my gears. 

Would "adding to your family" be better term?

If someone asked if we were adding to our family, I would tell them that DH wants a dog. 

I just can't think of a situation where anyone would ever need to ask about our reproductive decisions, outside of our medical providers. If I wanted someone to know, I would volunteer that information. It's very personal and very private. It's like asking if someone has STIs as a conversation starter. 

STARMOON44

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

Don’t. If people want you to know, they will tell you 

Casadena

cupcait927 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

You don't. Plain and simple. You have no idea what someone is going through - infertility, miscarriage, adoption struggles, etc. You let your friends offer that information up themselves. H and I are finally pregnant, but it took a year of trying. I'm so grateful that very, very few people asked us during that time about our plans to have children because it was an incredibly hard time in our lives and I didn't need additional reminders of our struggle. I apologize if this is coming off somewhat harsh, but it's just something you don't need to ask. And like @charlotte989875 said, who's to say that H and I weren't a family already? I certainly thought of us as a family.

SIB: @cupcait927 YAY!!!!!  I'm super happy for you both, I know you've been trying for quite awhile:)

Just adding.  H and I had some definite fertility issues that i've talked about on here a little and it took us a really long time to get pregnant even with the help of a fertility specialist.  It personally never bothered me when people asked if we wanted kids, or something along those lines.  I just think that's part of normal conversation for a lot of people and it was never hard for me to say something like "we do someday, do you have any?",. "if we're able to, absolutely", or "not right now, but hopefully someday" or "maybe, you never know (depending on who i was talking to".  I know lots of people are uncomfortable with even that so I don't ask other people - but it did not bother me.  

The thing I did not appreciate was the "omg, well if you want to have kids, you better do it now" or "you guys have been married 5 years, you better get on it before you're too old", "you're 33, you better start now if you want more than one" or "is everything ok, you guys have been married 5 years and don't have any kids".  Mostly the things that 1) assumed we wanted kids 2) assumed that I didn't know how fertility and age works 3) that something was wrong with us and they felt like they could ask about it (seriously, wtf).  

It's such a personal subject that the safest bet is to just not ask people.  If the subject of kids in general comes up or something, they'll share what they want to. 

climbingsingle

MissKittyDanger said:

Can I just ask others here a person tact question, because I'm always unsure of wording when/if I ask someone about future child plans.
What's best way of asking without being rude/prying?
I typically word it like "Oh, do you have current plans for a family?" {Keep it open ended for varying options}
{Note: I would ONLY ask those friends I'm close to - not some random person}

As someone that does not have children, I'd just rather not be asked. If you're a close friend of mine, you know that I've chosen to not have kids. If you have to ask we're probably not that close. 

I make it a point to never pry on this. I think the only person I've outright asked is my brother. 

Also, I really dislike the wording of "plans for a family". My husband is my family. Just because we don't have children doesn't mean we aren't a family. 

flantastic

Related: I hate gossip about this too. I recently shut MIL down when speculating about DH's cousins' family plans. I said I don't like talking about it because it's none of my business. Said cousins were not in the room. But if it makes me angry to think that people might be spending their brunch speculating "When are Flan and DH gonna try again after DD2?" then I think I owe other people the same courtesy. I don't need people speculating about my emotional readiness, fertility, choices, etc., and neither does anyone else. If MIL has some knowledge that I don't, they probably haven't authorized her to share it with me, so I don't need to suss it out.

It's not my business. If they want it to be my business, they will tell me. I have a decent idea of one SIL's history and none of the other SIL's. Cool. I might wonder about this stuff, but I wonder about things that are not my business to ask about all the time. And while I share sometimes with both, neither of those two would ever ask me. Which is part of what makes me want to share with them.

short+sassy

MyNameIsNot said:

MissKittyDanger said:

Would "adding to your family" be better term?

If someone asked if we were adding to our family, I would tell them that DH wants a dog. 

I just can't think of a situation where anyone would ever need to ask about our reproductive decisions, outside of our medical providers. If I wanted someone to know, I would volunteer that information. It's very personal and very private. It's like asking if someone has STIs as a conversation starter. 

That would be me!  Except I'm the one who wants another dog.

My response that is very true, with a sad face, "I've been trying to talk my H into getting a French Bulldog-looking puppy from the pound for the longest time, because I just can't get over how cute that breed is and Izzy would be ecstatic to have another dog to play with.  But it's been an emphatic, hard no, so I don't see that happening anytime soon."

cupcait927

@Casadena Thank you! 

@MyNameIsNot That would 100% be my answer as well.

@flantastic I can't even begin to imagine how much gossiping there was about H and I between my FIL and his siblings. H's aunt told my FIL that her son and DIL have been trying for awhile to get pregnant, which FIL shared with us and I should've shut it down. It was then that I realized that they were all having the same discussion about H and I and how inappropriate it was.

MyNameIsNot

And just to complete my tangent, H wants one of these. I just don't know what to say anymore. 

STARMOON44

MyNameIsNot said:

And just to complete my tangent, H wants one of these. I just don't know what to say anymore. 

Omg get them all

levioosa

MyNameIsNot said:

And just to complete my tangent, H wants one of these. I just don't know what to say anymore. 

Just one?

banana468

I remember when someone said a phrase like, "Banana and her H are starting a family," and I snapped, "We started a family in August of 2007!"   The concept that you need to have a child to be a family is one I loathe.  

MissKittyDanger

MyNameIsNot said:

And just to complete my tangent, H wants one of these. I just don't know what to say anymore. 

VarunaTT

MyNameIsNot said:

And just to complete my tangent, H wants one of these. I just don't know what to say anymore. 

Say yes?

They're so adorable.  I have puppy fever something fierce.