Oh LW, I want to hug you.

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

I am a 25-year-old woman, and I have never really had a romantic relationship. I had a crush in high school that didn’t work out. I went to a college with a significant gender disparity, and it seemed like all my friends got asked out by the few men who attended, just not me. I seemed invisible. I ended up dropping out of that college due to family issues, moved back home for a year, and worked. My parents had moved away from my hometown at that point, so there was no one there I could reconnect with. Still, I managed to make friends. But my romantic life went nowhere. One guy asked me out, but he was a known creep I had been warned against. Another guy was younger than me by nearly four years.

Embarrassingly, I’ve never even been kissed. I feel like something is wrong with me. I’m still in touch with my friends from high school and college, so it’s not like I can’t connect with people. Yet no guy has ever been interested in me. Is it my looks? I’ve been told by a guy friend that I’m a “6.5 out of 10.” I’ve always been the plain Jane of my friend groups. But I’ve always made sure that I have been presentable. Is it my personality? A lot of my girl friends say that I am confident and cool to be around, and they’re always in disbelief whenever I mention my lack of romantic connections. A few of my guy friends have mentioned that they also think I’m cool, but men have trouble liking me since all of my friends are “nicer” to be around. According to them, even though I am caring and personable, I’m still too assertive and dominating. One guy even said that I’m too loud and needed to be quieter.  At this point, I don’t know what to do. I know that there’s something wrong with me. There has to be. I have been told over and over that I don’t need to be in a relationship until I’m ready, but I have been ready for years now.

I know that the obvious solution is to put myself out there and try dating apps, but I feel like at this point, if no one has ever liked me, then no one ever will. I feel embarrassed by my lack of experience and with every year, it only gets worse. I feel like I would have to lie to whatever future dates I have about my history just so they don’t think I’m pathetic or start looking for flaws that would have repulsed others. Plus, all of my friends in relationships have met their partners organically. I’m jealous that someone could meet them on the street, or in school, or in a club and immediately be interested in them; meanwhile, I’m an acquired taste at best. Any advice would be helpful.

—Never Been Kissed

banana468

YOU'RE NOT JOSIE GROSSIE ANYMORE!

I think the LW may want to try a dating app and possibly a life coach.  Get some unbiased feedback.  It may be about her personality or something else and she's going to need to be open to criticism if there are possible changes that she's advised.

I don't think that you should alter who you are for a romantic relationship but you can look to see if there is an aspect about how you are behaving that others may find off putting in a romantic way.  

CharmedPam

Ummmm did someone go into my diary from 15 years ago and send to Prudie?

because I was in your shoes 15 years ago LW, a dating app yes.  And when I was 25 dating apps are not what they used to be!  And therapy if you can get it.  I didn’t get it until years later, but if you want the cold hard bitter truth, this perception of you will follow you for ages. You’re always going to wonder why no one paid any attention to you in grade school, middle school, college etc. So find a good therapist, a good friend and eventually, when you’re ready - a good guy.
don’t settle for the first person to say they love you, fall hard and then marry them. 

kvruns

one of my good friends could have written that although she's almost 40. I've never known her to truly date - I think she had a casual friendship that bordered on dating with someone years ago but he was quite a bit younger so it never went anywhere. even though we are very good friends I've never asked her about her lack of dating life though I want to. She is attractive, nice, puts others first (which likely lead to this position bc she was too busy helping take care of everyone else in her teens and 20s). Her standards are probably too high but also doesn't even try to date which I have found odd. 

VarunaTT

mrsconn23 said:

Embarrassingly, I’ve never even been kissed. I feel like something is wrong with me. I’m still in touch with my friends from high school and college, so it’s not like I can’t connect with people. Yet no guy has ever been interested in me. Is it my looks? I’ve been told by a guy friend that I’m a “6.5 out of 10.” I’ve always been the plain Jane of my friend groups. But I’ve always made sure that I have been presentable. Is it my personality? A lot of my girl friends say that I am confident and cool to be around, and they’re always in disbelief whenever I mention my lack of romantic connections. A few of my guy friends have mentioned that they also think I’m cool, but men have trouble liking me since all of my friends are “nicer” to be around. According to them, even though I am caring and personable, I’m still too assertive and dominating. One guy even said that I’m too loud and needed to be quieter.  At this point, I don’t know what to do. I know that there’s something wrong with me. There has to be. I have been told over and over that I don’t need to be in a relationship until I’m ready, but I have been ready for years now.

FUCK, and let me repeat it one more time, FUCK those men.  They can fuck right the fuck off a bridge.

There are more than 4 men in the world, LW.  Get on those apps and find them.  I would also recommend some therapy, b/c for women like us, the world will do a goddamn tap dance on your head and heart.

I enjoy personality tests and always take them with a grain of salt.  I took an ennegram test though and there are entire books written about a Type 8 woman (me and I'm willing to be, this LW).  B/c we're often called too assertive, too domineering, a bitch, etc.  You know, basically a personality type that if I had a dick, would be totally fine, but because I don't, it's a problem.  Still a grain of salt, but damn if there isn't some stuff I've read that resonates really strongly.

charlotte989875

LW doesn’t need a date, she needs way better friends! 

But yes- dating apps, life coach, therapy - not because there’s anything wrong with you but because society is made to tell confident, assertive women to sit down and shut up. Find someone who won’t dream of doing that. 

mrsconn23

VarunaTT said:

mrsconn23 said:

Embarrassingly, I’ve never even been kissed. I feel like something is wrong with me. I’m still in touch with my friends from high school and college, so it’s not like I can’t connect with people. Yet no guy has ever been interested in me. Is it my looks? I’ve been told by a guy friend that I’m a “6.5 out of 10.” I’ve always been the plain Jane of my friend groups. But I’ve always made sure that I have been presentable. Is it my personality? A lot of my girl friends say that I am confident and cool to be around, and they’re always in disbelief whenever I mention my lack of romantic connections. A few of my guy friends have mentioned that they also think I’m cool, but men have trouble liking me since all of my friends are “nicer” to be around. According to them, even though I am caring and personable, I’m still too assertive and dominating. One guy even said that I’m too loud and needed to be quieter.  At this point, I don’t know what to do. I know that there’s something wrong with me. There has to be. I have been told over and over that I don’t need to be in a relationship until I’m ready, but I have been ready for years now.

FUCK, and let me repeat it one more time, FUCK those men.  They can fuck right the fuck off a bridge.

There are more than 4 men in the world, LW.  Get on those apps and find them.  I would also recommend some therapy, b/c for women like us, the world will do a goddamn tap dance on your head and heart.

I enjoy personality tests and always take them with a grain of salt.  I took an ennegram test though and there are entire books written about a Type 8 woman (me and I'm willing to be, this LW).  B/c we're often called too assertive, too domineering, a bitch, etc.  You know, basically a personality type that if I had a dick, would be totally fine, but because I don't, it's a problem.  Still a grain of salt, but damn if there isn't some stuff I've read that resonates really strongly.

THIS. 

Also, re: personality tests...there's a great documentary on HBOMax about them, especially how they're misused in hiring/employment. 

short+sassy

@VarunaTT, right?!?!  Who ARE these guy friends she has?  "Yeah, you're about a 6.5/10."  And, "You're too loud and assertive.  You need to be soft and meek for guys to like you."

I'm picturing her guy friend(s) who said that as being insecure and pathetic themselves, so they couldn't handle women who won't bend to their wills.

I'll give the same advice I gave to one of last week's letters.  Get on those dating apps!  It's so much easier to find the right person when there are a lot to choose from.  Plus, in the beginning, it can be very low stakes.  Go out on a bunch of coffee dates to help with confidence and getting used to men seeing her in a more romantic way.

I also agree the LW should seek therapy.  They have a lot of self-defeating dialogue going on their head.  They keep comparing themselves unfavorably to others.  As if everyone else is good at meeting people and forming romantic relationships.  But that isn't true.  There are a lot of men out there with similar feelings to the LW.  Who also feel inexperienced and that women are never interested in them. 

VarunaTT

mrsconn23 said:

VarunaTT said:

mrsconn23 said:

Embarrassingly, I’ve never even been kissed. I feel like something is wrong with me. I’m still in touch with my friends from high school and college, so it’s not like I can’t connect with people. Yet no guy has ever been interested in me. Is it my looks? I’ve been told by a guy friend that I’m a “6.5 out of 10.” I’ve always been the plain Jane of my friend groups. But I’ve always made sure that I have been presentable. Is it my personality? A lot of my girl friends say that I am confident and cool to be around, and they’re always in disbelief whenever I mention my lack of romantic connections. A few of my guy friends have mentioned that they also think I’m cool, but men have trouble liking me since all of my friends are “nicer” to be around. According to them, even though I am caring and personable, I’m still too assertive and dominating. One guy even said that I’m too loud and needed to be quieter.  At this point, I don’t know what to do. I know that there’s something wrong with me. There has to be. I have been told over and over that I don’t need to be in a relationship until I’m ready, but I have been ready for years now.

FUCK, and let me repeat it one more time, FUCK those men.  They can fuck right the fuck off a bridge.

There are more than 4 men in the world, LW.  Get on those apps and find them.  I would also recommend some therapy, b/c for women like us, the world will do a goddamn tap dance on your head and heart.

I enjoy personality tests and always take them with a grain of salt.  I took an ennegram test though and there are entire books written about a Type 8 woman (me and I'm willing to be, this LW).  B/c we're often called too assertive, too domineering, a bitch, etc.  You know, basically a personality type that if I had a dick, would be totally fine, but because I don't, it's a problem.  Still a grain of salt, but damn if there isn't some stuff I've read that resonates really strongly.

THIS. 

Also, re: personality tests...there's a great documentary on HBOMax about them, especially how they're misused in hiring/employment. 

I have that in my queue to watch.  That's one of the reasons I don't like them.  I find them useful for understanding my interactions with my co-workers sometimes, but far too many people use them for nefarious interactions.

VarunaTT

charlotte989875 said:

LW doesn’t need a date, she needs way better friends! 

But yes- dating apps, life coach, therapy - not because there’s anything wrong with you but because society is made to tell confident, assertive women to sit down and shut up. Find someone who won’t dream of doing that. 

I wondered about this too.  But her women friends seem supportive, so maybe they're just surrounded by douchey "friend zoned" men?  IDK; I lean strongly towards, ditch all of them and burn those bridges DOWN for LW, but LW sounds so insecure that might be more terrible.

VarunaTT

Finally, I don't want to read too much into this with my own bias, but lemme tell you how many queer women I know who had this same experience and then were like...Oh, it's b/c I want to date women.  LW might not even realize their sexuality and they're trying to make something fit that just doesn't.

levioosa

Based on the LWs comments...went to school with gender disparity, the comments about how she’s too assertive...I get the feeling LW is around a conservative culture.

mrsconn23

short+sassy said:

@VarunaTT, right?!?!  Who ARE these guy friends she has?  "Yeah, you're about a 6.5/10."  And, "You're too loud and assertive.  You need to be soft and meek for guys to like you."

I'm picturing her guy friend(s) who said that as being insecure and pathetic themselves, so they couldn't handle women who won't bend to their wills.

She doesn't make their dicks hard so it's clearly a problem with her.  As a rule, never ask a straight, cis man in his 20's (hell, probably 30's too) what's wrong with you as a single woman. I just don't think you're going to get an answer that isn't going to make think you're anything other than the 'problem'.  

Ugh.  I hate that so many women still feel like dating around somehow is wrong or makes them seem loose, slutty, or not to be taken seriously.   Dating is a numbers game.  It's also like interviewing for jobs...the more you do it, the better you'll get at it and know what you want/need from a relationship.  

LW needs to get the kiss out of the way.  Hell, she needs to get sex out of the way. 

The first time I ever had sex was a one night stand.  He wasn't my boyfriend and I don't think we ever spoke again.  I'm normally a risk-averse person because I build things up in my head, get super anxious, and talk myself out of it.  But when I've just 'jumped' even though I'm terrified, it's worked out 99% of the time.  I definitely think LW should stop thinking and start jumping a little bit. 

kerbohl

mrsconn23 said:

VarunaTT said:

mrsconn23 said:

Embarrassingly, I’ve never even been kissed. I feel like something is wrong with me. I’m still in touch with my friends from high school and college, so it’s not like I can’t connect with people. Yet no guy has ever been interested in me. Is it my looks? I’ve been told by a guy friend that I’m a “6.5 out of 10.” I’ve always been the plain Jane of my friend groups. But I’ve always made sure that I have been presentable. Is it my personality? A lot of my girl friends say that I am confident and cool to be around, and they’re always in disbelief whenever I mention my lack of romantic connections. A few of my guy friends have mentioned that they also think I’m cool, but men have trouble liking me since all of my friends are “nicer” to be around. According to them, even though I am caring and personable, I’m still too assertive and dominating. One guy even said that I’m too loud and needed to be quieter.  At this point, I don’t know what to do. I know that there’s something wrong with me. There has to be. I have been told over and over that I don’t need to be in a relationship until I’m ready, but I have been ready for years now.

FUCK, and let me repeat it one more time, FUCK those men.  They can fuck right the fuck off a bridge.

There are more than 4 men in the world, LW.  Get on those apps and find them.  I would also recommend some therapy, b/c for women like us, the world will do a goddamn tap dance on your head and heart.

I enjoy personality tests and always take them with a grain of salt.  I took an ennegram test though and there are entire books written about a Type 8 woman (me and I'm willing to be, this LW).  B/c we're often called too assertive, too domineering, a bitch, etc.  You know, basically a personality type that if I had a dick, would be totally fine, but because I don't, it's a problem.  Still a grain of salt, but damn if there isn't some stuff I've read that resonates really strongly.

THIS. 

Also, re: personality tests...there's a great documentary on HBOMax about them, especially how they're misused in hiring/employment. 

Well that sounds vaguely terrifying .... I need to check that out!

I was one week away from 24 and had never been kissed.  There was nothing wrong with me, and there's nothing wrong with LW.  Learn to love yourself and being with yourself, take the pressure off, and maybe ask guys out.  And if they think you asking for what you want is too assertive, you dodged a bullet.  Go on the dating apps, forget about this stigma that you couldn't meet a guy "organically"!  

And ditto that these guys are jerks.  Really - telling someone they are a 6.5/10?  Well, maybe to that guy, but seeing as beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... I've had someone tell me that my hubby is unattractive.  My response to that is, I think he's a 10/10, and I'm the one sleeping with him so your opinion doesn't really matter that much.