Chit Chat

Junior Bridesmaid on a party bus?

Groom to be here.  Just a heads up, it's a long post as I want to give the whole picture to get accurate opinions.  I Have a question regarding the junior bridesmaid in our wedding.  It's my fiance cousin(she's 12) who she is pretty close with.  My fiance's aunt asked her daughter(JB) could go on the party bus and sit at the head table because she had been asking her mom(fiance aunt) about it.  So my fiance's aunt asked her and she said yes without asking my opinion.  She did this with a few things and I've been getting frustrated with it all. 

Here's a preface of the whole situation for the last 8-9 months.  It's been a really difficult time planning the wedding as her 20 year old sister passed away in December and her family has obviously been going through a lot so I haven't fought her on anything really as she eventually always brings up her sister when we did/do have any disagreements saying things like "I'm going through a lot losing my sister, just give me this" which I get because I truly don't know what she is going through as I have never lost someone that close to me.  So I have been living in her parents basement(moved in around July/August before her sister passed), as we had a really good relationship and I could save money for a house which we just closed on yesterday. So I've been having a difficult time having to be so close to it and seeing what they are going through.  On top of that her parents voice there opinion too much now as they really look out/super protective of their daughter given the situation leaving no one looking out for me. When deciding on the price range of houses to look at we had huge differences on the price range to spend.  I wanted 250-350,000, and she was wanting to look at houses ranging from 400-500,000...  I wanted to avoid spending more as it's our first home and she went to private school and came out with over well over 6 figures in loans.  I on the other hand have 19,000 in loans which I would have paid off already but with the loan freeze due to covid, I rather saved for the house and wedding which I am paying for solely(minus her and my parents contributions to the wedding) and my fiance pays as much to loans as she can due to having private loans that are accruing interest still. I still have enough saved up to pay 10,000 of my loans but am holding off to get settled in the our house for expenditures like repairs, mower/snow blower and such.  When it came down to it, we ended up buying a 450,000 house because her aunt knew someone wanting to sell without a realtor, and we wouldn't have to compete with buyers with how crazy the market has been.  When deciding on the house, their was a big fight(including her parents...) as I was still concerned with the price and her parents were way to involved and were only concerned with what her daughter wanted...  We all eventually had a talk and I got her parents to realize it's HER and I starting a family and that ultimately the two of us need to make decision together and we both need to be in agreement.  But I still gave her the house as I love her and she's gone through hell losing her sister.  Now even after all this, my fiance still has gotten her way nearly with every more significant decision that's come up.  She got her way with when we'd get a dog, when we'd start trying to get pregnant and nearly everything for the wedding when we had differences in opinion.  Hard to argue anything with her as she always brings up losing her sister which I understand to an extent.  Her mom has also been acting like this is her wedding she's planning even after our discussion after the fight which I haven't been able to address because her mom is more emotional than she is so stay away from that.  The only thing I've gotten my way was the breed of dog we'd get and having a groomsmen I really wanted, who she doesn't really care for which I had to really fight for to include.  Sorry for ranting for so long, just needed to give some context what the two of us have been going through, and give the whole picture.

Now back to the question.  After I found out, I got upset as she didn't ask my opinion.  When planning the wedding she'd reiterated that she doesn't want anyone replacing her sister in the wedding.  She was a dual maid of honor, as I have a twin brother, and a friend we've known since birth, and then she was going to have both her sisters be maid of honor.   So we are having my twin brother walk a picture of her down the isle for the ceremony.  Some may thing this is weird and take away from the wedding but I was in complete agreement with that.  But now she's wanting her cousin to sit at the table in place of her sister, cuz she doesn't want to see an empty spot which wouldn't be the case because they obviously wouldn't actually have a plate/empty spot where she would of sat.  She also wanted her on the bus claiming she wants her in the pictures for the same reason as the table.  We talked about it and ultimately came to a compromise.  We decided to not have her on the bus because we are still taking pictures at the church with family/wedding party before we get on the party bus and the fact that we are stopping at a few bars in between scenic pictures.  And we decided she could sit at the head table, so we'd both get something we wanted.  Now when she told her mom and sister, they threw a big fit over the whole thing and kept telling her it's not a big deal and I shouldn't care about it and got her all worked up.  So she told me we had to have a talk last night, she told me she wants her on the bus and said her sister wasn't going to come if the JB couldn't be on the bus. I said no still, I said that's your sisters decision, so more arguing took place. I take a walk to cool down, she calls her mom to say I'm not budging and then her mom threatens to not come to the wedding...  We are now in the middle of working it out but I don't want to budge.   I've been on 3 other party buses for weddings and they have never been a place to have a 12 year old.  She's says her aunt doesn't care about the drinking and inappropriate stuff for her daughter but it's more that having a 12 year old with will give it a PG setting more and our wedding party will be more reserved.  I even said she someone could drive her in a car along(I mentioned her aunt, the JB mom), so she could be in the scenic pictures we are going to take and she still says no and said her aunt in quotes "she is going to be drinking and having fun".  So it then it comes out that they don't want to tell her cousin no because it will hurt her feelings...  I offered to explain it to her and still no.  Will someone give me some incite....  am I being weird?  She and her family claim that I am making a big deal out of nothing, but they are the one's who gave ultimatums. Everyone I've talked to agrees that a 12 year old shouldn't be on a party bus, and I've made sure to ask coworkers as parents/friends are just going to agree with me.  Help me!

Also, the wedding party ranges from 25-31 and one 20 year old.

Re: Junior Bridesmaid on a party bus?

  • Groom to be here.  Just a heads up, it's a long post as I want to give the whole picture to get accurate opinions.  I Have a question regarding the junior bridesmaid in our wedding.  It's my fiance cousin(she's 12) who she is pretty close with.  My fiance's aunt asked her daughter(JB) could go on the party bus and sit at the head table because she had been asking her mom(fiance aunt) about it.  So my fiance's aunt asked her and she said yes without asking my opinion.  She did this with a few things and I've been getting frustrated with it all. 

    Here's a preface of the whole situation for the last 8-9 months.  It's been a really difficult time planning the wedding as her 20 year old sister passed away in December and her family has obviously been going through a lot so I haven't fought her on anything really as she eventually always brings up her sister when we did/do have any disagreements saying things like "I'm going through a lot losing my sister, just give me this" which I get because I truly don't know what she is going through as I have never lost someone that close to me.  So I have been living in her parents basement(moved in around July/August before her sister passed), as we had a really good relationship and I could save money for a house which we just closed on yesterday. So I've been having a difficult time having to be so close to it and seeing what they are going through.  On top of that her parents voice there opinion too much now as they really look out/super protective of their daughter given the situation leaving no one looking out for me. When deciding on the price range of houses to look at we had huge differences on the price range to spend.  I wanted 250-350,000, and she was wanting to look at houses ranging from 400-500,000...  I wanted to avoid spending more as it's our first home and she went to private school and came out with over well over 6 figures in loans.  I on the other hand have 19,000 in loans which I would have paid off already but with the loan freeze due to covid, I rather saved for the house and wedding which I am paying for solely(minus her and my parents contributions to the wedding) and my fiance pays as much to loans as she can due to having private loans that are accruing interest still. I still have enough saved up to pay 10,000 of my loans but am holding off to get settled in the our house for expenditures like repairs, mower/snow blower and such.  When it came down to it, we ended up buying a 450,000 house because her aunt knew someone wanting to sell without a realtor, and we wouldn't have to compete with buyers with how crazy the market has been.  When deciding on the house, their was a big fight(including her parents...) as I was still concerned with the price and her parents were way to involved and were only concerned with what her daughter wanted...  We all eventually had a talk and I got her parents to realize it's HER and I starting a family and that ultimately the two of us need to make decision together and we both need to be in agreement.  But I still gave her the house as I love her and she's gone through hell losing her sister.  Now even after all this, my fiance still has gotten her way nearly with every more significant decision that's come up.  She got her way with when we'd get a dog, when we'd start trying to get pregnant and nearly everything for the wedding when we had differences in opinion.  Hard to argue anything with her as she always brings up losing her sister which I understand to an extent.  Her mom has also been acting like this is her wedding she's planning even after our discussion after the fight which I haven't been able to address because her mom is more emotional than she is so stay away from that.  The only thing I've gotten my way was the breed of dog we'd get and having a groomsmen I really wanted, who she doesn't really care for which I had to really fight for to include.  Sorry for ranting for so long, just needed to give some context what the two of us have been going through, and give the whole picture.

    Now back to the question.  After I found out, I got upset as she didn't ask my opinion.  When planning the wedding she'd reiterated that she doesn't want anyone replacing her sister in the wedding.  She was a dual maid of honor, as I have a twin brother, and a friend we've known since birth, and then she was going to have both her sisters be maid of honor.   So we are having my twin brother walk a picture of her down the isle for the ceremony.  Some may thing this is weird and take away from the wedding but I was in complete agreement with that.  But now she's wanting her cousin to sit at the table in place of her sister, cuz she doesn't want to see an empty spot which wouldn't be the case because they obviously wouldn't actually have a plate/empty spot where she would of sat.  She also wanted her on the bus claiming she wants her in the pictures for the same reason as the table.  We talked about it and ultimately came to a compromise.  We decided to not have her on the bus because we are still taking pictures at the church with family/wedding party before we get on the party bus and the fact that we are stopping at a few bars in between scenic pictures.  And we decided she could sit at the head table, so we'd both get something we wanted.  Now when she told her mom and sister, they threw a big fit over the whole thing and kept telling her it's not a big deal and I shouldn't care about it and got her all worked up.  So she told me we had to have a talk last night, she told me she wants her on the bus and said her sister wasn't going to come if the JB couldn't be on the bus. I said no still, I said that's your sisters decision, so more arguing took place. I take a walk to cool down, she calls her mom to say I'm not budging and then her mom threatens to not come to the wedding...  We are now in the middle of working it out but I don't want to budge.   I've been on 3 other party buses for weddings and they have never been a place to have a 12 year old.  She's says her aunt doesn't care about the drinking and inappropriate stuff for her daughter but it's more that having a 12 year old with will give it a PG setting more and our wedding party will be more reserved.  I even said she someone could drive her in a car along(I mentioned her aunt, the JB mom), so she could be in the scenic pictures we are going to take and she still says no and said her aunt in quotes "she is going to be drinking and having fun".  So it then it comes out that they don't want to tell her cousin no because it will hurt her feelings...  I offered to explain it to her and still no.  Will someone give me some incite....  am I being weird?  She and her family claim that I am making a big deal out of nothing, but they are the one's who gave ultimatums. Everyone I've talked to agrees that a 12 year old shouldn't be on a party bus, and I've made sure to ask coworkers as parents/friends are just going to agree with me.  Help me!

    Also, the wedding party ranges from 25-31 and one 20 year old.
    The party bus is really the least of your problems. If I were you, I would postpone the wedding and get into couple's counseling. You have major, major communication and family issues with your FI and you need to work on that before you get married or even think about bringing a baby into the mix.

    The overbearing family and conflict avoidance might be a biproduct of grief, or it might have been there all along, but they're not going to go away if you ignore them and fixate on minutia like where someone rides or sits. Deal with the things that do matter. 
  •  knottied308e9fa67d1550a said:
    Groom to be here.  Just a heads up, it's a long post as I want to give the whole picture to get accurate opinions.  I Have a question regarding the junior bridesmaid in our wedding.  It's my fiance cousin(she's 12) who she is pretty close with.  My fiance's aunt asked her daughter(JB) could go on the party bus and sit at the head table because she had been asking her mom(fiance aunt) about it.  So my fiance's aunt asked her and she said yes without asking my opinion.  She did this with a few things and I've been getting frustrated with it all. 

    Here's a preface of the whole situation for the last 8-9 months.  It's been a really difficult time planning the wedding as her 20 year old sister passed away in December and her family has obviously been going through a lot so I haven't fought her on anything really as she eventually always brings up her sister when we did/do have any disagreements saying things like "I'm going through a lot losing my sister, just give me this" which I get because I truly don't know what she is going through as I have never lost someone that close to me.  So I have been living in her parents basement(moved in around July/August before her sister passed), as we had a really good relationship and I could save money for a house which we just closed on yesterday. So I've been having a difficult time having to be so close to it and seeing what they are going through.  On top of that her parents voice there opinion too much now as they really look out/super protective of their daughter given the situation leaving no one looking out for me. When deciding on the price range of houses to look at we had huge differences on the price range to spend.  I wanted 250-350,000, and she was wanting to look at houses ranging from 400-500,000...  I wanted to avoid spending more as it's our first home and she went to private school and came out with over well over 6 figures in loans.  I on the other hand have 19,000 in loans which I would have paid off already but with the loan freeze due to covid, I rather saved for the house and wedding which I am paying for solely(minus her and my parents contributions to the wedding) and my fiance pays as much to loans as she can due to having private loans that are accruing interest still. I still have enough saved up to pay 10,000 of my loans but am holding off to get settled in the our house for expenditures like repairs, mower/snow blower and such.  When it came down to it, we ended up buying a 450,000 house because her aunt knew someone wanting to sell without a realtor, and we wouldn't have to compete with buyers with how crazy the market has been.  When deciding on the house, their was a big fight(including her parents...) as I was still concerned with the price and her parents were way to involved and were only concerned with what her daughter wanted...  We all eventually had a talk and I got her parents to realize it's HER and I starting a family and that ultimately the two of us need to make decision together and we both need to be in agreement.  But I still gave her the house as I love her and she's gone through hell losing her sister.  Now even after all this, my fiance still has gotten her way nearly with every more significant decision that's come up.  She got her way with when we'd get a dog, when we'd start trying to get pregnant and nearly everything for the wedding when we had differences in opinion.  Hard to argue anything with her as she always brings up losing her sister which I understand to an extent.  Her mom has also been acting like this is her wedding she's planning even after our discussion after the fight which I haven't been able to address because her mom is more emotional than she is so stay away from that.  The only thing I've gotten my way was the breed of dog we'd get and having a groomsmen I really wanted, who she doesn't really care for which I had to really fight for to include.  Sorry for ranting for so long, just needed to give some context what the two of us have been going through, and give the whole picture.

    Now back to the question.  After I found out, I got upset as she didn't ask my opinion.  When planning the wedding she'd reiterated that she doesn't want anyone replacing her sister in the wedding.  She was a dual maid of honor, as I have a twin brother, and a friend we've known since birth, and then she was going to have both her sisters be maid of honor.   So we are having my twin brother walk a picture of her down the isle for the ceremony.  Some may thing this is weird and take away from the wedding but I was in complete agreement with that.  But now she's wanting her cousin to sit at the table in place of her sister, cuz she doesn't want to see an empty spot which wouldn't be the case because they obviously wouldn't actually have a plate/empty spot where she would of sat.  She also wanted her on the bus claiming she wants her in the pictures for the same reason as the table.  We talked about it and ultimately came to a compromise.  We decided to not have her on the bus because we are still taking pictures at the church with family/wedding party before we get on the party bus and the fact that we are stopping at a few bars in between scenic pictures.  And we decided she could sit at the head table, so we'd both get something we wanted.  Now when she told her mom and sister, they threw a big fit over the whole thing and kept telling her it's not a big deal and I shouldn't care about it and got her all worked up.  So she told me we had to have a talk last night, she told me she wants her on the bus and said her sister wasn't going to come if the JB couldn't be on the bus. I said no still, I said that's your sisters decision, so more arguing took place. I take a walk to cool down, she calls her mom to say I'm not budging and then her mom threatens to not come to the wedding...  We are now in the middle of working it out but I don't want to budge.   I've been on 3 other party buses for weddings and they have never been a place to have a 12 year old.  She's says her aunt doesn't care about the drinking and inappropriate stuff for her daughter but it's more that having a 12 year old with will give it a PG setting more and our wedding party will be more reserved.  I even said she someone could drive her in a car along(I mentioned her aunt, the JB mom), so she could be in the scenic pictures we are going to take and she still says no and said her aunt in quotes "she is going to be drinking and having fun".  So it then it comes out that they don't want to tell her cousin no because it will hurt her feelings...  I offered to explain it to her and still no.  Will someone give me some incite....  am I being weird?  She and her family claim that I am making a big deal out of nothing, but they are the one's who gave ultimatums. Everyone I've talked to agrees that a 12 year old shouldn't be on a party bus, and I've made sure to ask coworkers as parents/friends are just going to agree with me.  Help me!

    Also, the wedding party ranges from 25-31 and one 20 year old.
    Honestly - I think you shouldn't get married now.  I think you and your FI have a lot of communication issues and you work through them poorly.  It's not a great foundation that you're starting to plan a wedding and the entire tone I get from your post is that she always gets her way and you can't agree on major topics like the cost of a home, how to pay off student loans and how to start a family.  Failure to agree on those topics is what leads to divorce.  

    I am not understanding the concept of leaving your wedding and wedding guests to go bar hopping.  That totally flies in the face of being hospitable to your guests and now with covid seems to add far too much risk.  
  • knottied308e9fa67d1550a I did not see the response of @MyNameIsNot when I wrote my response.  
  • The party bus is when we do scenic pictures and stop to have a drink at 2 places to spend time with the wedding party and the guest have social hour(ours would be 90 minutes). Then the wedding party would arrive and do the wedding dance entrance. This is literally how every wedding I've been to goes.  You have social hour then the wedding party arrives just before dinner.   
    Also calling it off is to the point where I'm at and I've told her that.  I was going to give in, but my dad mentioned that if I give into this, I'm going to have no say in the marriage.  I just want to think it through before making any quick decisions.  
  • @banana468 no worries,  I want to hear from as many people as possible.  I've been stressed to the limit the last few days and I need outside opinions.
  • The party bus is when we do scenic pictures and stop to have a drink at 2 places to spend time with the wedding party and the guest have social hour(ours would be 90 minutes). Then the wedding party would arrive and do the wedding dance entrance. This is literally how every wedding I've been to goes.  You have social hour then the wedding party arrives just before dinner.   
    Also calling it off is to the point where I'm at and I've told her that.  I was going to give in, but my dad mentioned that if I give into this, I'm going to have no say in the marriage.  I just want to think it through before making any quick decisions.  
    OK - regarding the bus part I don't like it but if this is par for the course for every wedding and expected and the guests are also being hosted OK. 

    As for the rest, I think you need to sit down and have a heart to heart with your FI.  

    Leave the bus out of this.  It's the least of your issues.  Your major problems are the major life changes and expenses ahead of you and that you aren't in agreement on any of them.  

    I will say that giving into her isn't helping you.  You may need the assistance of a good therapist to help navigate this - but I would be clear that there are too many obstacles right now before you tie the knot. 
  • If she is truly that preoccupied with her grief, the answer is not to make a bunch of major life decisions. You two are not acting as true partners in your decision-making, and that's not a foundation for a marriage. I have no idea whether the steamrolling stems from her grief, or has been an underlying issue all along. That's an issue to work out in your couples' counseling. Postpone the wedding until you have sorted through that and learned to communicate and compromise.

    I agree with PPs that making the bus your issue is not the way to go here. That is not in and of itself a hill to die on, whatever your dad says. It is merely a single symptom of things that need dealing with before they have major financial and relationship ramifications.
  • banana468 said:
    The party bus is when we do scenic pictures and stop to have a drink at 2 places to spend time with the wedding party and the guest have social hour(ours would be 90 minutes). Then the wedding party would arrive and do the wedding dance entrance. This is literally how every wedding I've been to goes.  You have social hour then the wedding party arrives just before dinner.   
    Also calling it off is to the point where I'm at and I've told her that.  I was going to give in, but my dad mentioned that if I give into this, I'm going to have no say in the marriage.  I just want to think it through before making any quick decisions.  
    OK - regarding the bus part I don't like it but if this is par for the course for every wedding and expected and the guests are also being hosted OK. 

    As for the rest, I think you need to sit down and have a heart to heart with your FI.  

    Leave the bus out of this.  It's the least of your issues.  Your major problems are the major life changes and expenses ahead of you and that you aren't in agreement on any of them.  

    I will say that giving into her isn't helping you.  You may need the assistance of a good therapist to help navigate this - but I would be clear that there are too many obstacles right now before you tie the knot. 
    I couldn't agree with this more. Knottie#s, I know this is really hard and you really love her, but marriage requires more than just love. 
  • So, your post is problematic on a few levels. 

    You live in your in-laws' basement, yet you don't want them to be involved at all in your life. And of course they're going to be looking for their daughter's interests. That's pretty normal? 

    You seem to be keeping a tally of what you consider to be your FI's "wins'. Even over the breed of dog? 

    You say you're compassionate to what she's going through losing her sister, yet you're saying she's using this as an excuse to get her way? 

    You even go so far as to note her school debt because she went to a private school. And that your debt is much lower. 

    I get that you're trying to paint a picture for us, but it comes across badly, and that you're keeping score. And that will not work in a marriage. 

    My suggestion is to go to couples counseling before you get married. Trust me on this.

    I do agree that a party bus (and one that is stopping at bars) is not the place for a 12 year old kid.  
  • @climbingsingle Just because I live with them doesn't mean they get say in what me and FI decide.  I never said I don't want them involved in my life.  I moved in with them because my relationship with them was that good(FI and I been together for almost 4.5 years).  And I know it's pretty normal for parents to look out for their daughters interest.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to have some realization that it's her and I starting our life and we need to make a decisions between the two of us.  Their opinions should be suggestions, not actually making decisions with us.  But I think them grieving is what's making them miss this.  My parents looks out for me and can be very overbearing with their opinions at times... But when ever they give advice on things regarding my FI and I, they always finish by saying "but it's your two's decision, you have to decide together."

    Also it's not about wins or keeping score, it's more about compromise and communication.  That's why I listed other decisions we gone through recently in our life.  Even if you or I look at it like a scoreboard, should I feel insignificant when making life decisions?  The only thing she's compromised is the dog thing which we agreed on.  And that's subjective, one person may want a cat instead of dog, or another may not care what breed of dog you get like how you feel. But we are both dog people and that mattered to both of us. If that's your point, then why did she care what breed the dog is? 
    The reason I state her using the loss of her sister as she does it with everything.  She even tried doing it with the Catholic church to try and convince them to play music not associated with the Church which is rarely allowed in Catholic churches if ever which I told her in advance.  Do you think I should just give her way every time she brings that up? Because that's where we are currently.  I let her have her way on nearly everything, due to her loss and myself not having gone through what she has to truly know her feelings. In hindsight, we should have gone to consoling long ago, but I have never been in a situation like this so I was naive to it all. 
    And painting a picture? I'd tried to give as much info so posters know the whole situation.  Would have it made sense to just post, "Should a 12 year old be on a party bus with people twice her age, a cooler full of alcoholic beverages and that's making a few stops for a drink?"  Is it painting a picture to state what we each wanted and what the decision we made was? 
    I state her loans as I tend to think more logically regarding finances.  I have no issues with her loans as that's why I'm with her but with those loans come tougher decisions when buying a house or having a wedding as we have the loans to pay off also.  If I had the same loans she had, we wouldn't even be able to afford the house we purchased.  Her loans are my loans now also.  That's why we decided to have her pay off as much as possibly, and I would save up as much as possible. 
    Another thing is we come from different sides of income and our family's view the value of a dollar differently.  FI parents live in a house worth almost twice as much as my parents house, and I know they make well over double what my parents make.  I have been driving 15-20 year old vehicles since high school as that's what I've been able to afford and I really don't care what car I drive until I'm more financial comfortable.  Meanwhile her parents, aunt, and grandma use to make comments regarding my car and try to make it seem like they are joking or being funny but that hurt my feeling as I know what they truly think about the car I drive. Why else mention it?  I talked to the FI about this, and she talked to her parents about it and they quit mentioning it. 

    But regardless, we obviously need consoling like you said and every previous poster stated.  I know this was bigger than the JB on the party bus kind of, just needed some outside perspectives to confirm it.
  • @climbingsingle Just because I live with them doesn't mean they get say in what me and FI decide.  I never said I don't want them involved in my life.  I moved in with them because my relationship with them was that good(FI and I been together for almost 4.5 years).  And I know it's pretty normal for parents to look out for their daughters interest.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to have some realization that it's her and I starting our life and we need to make a decisions between the two of us.  Their opinions should be suggestions, not actually making decisions with us.  But I think them grieving is what's making them miss this.  My parents looks out for me and can be very overbearing with their opinions at times... But when ever they give advice on things regarding my FI and I, they always finish by saying "but it's your two's decision, you have to decide together."

    Also it's not about wins or keeping score, it's more about compromise and communication.  That's why I listed other decisions we gone through recently in our life.  Even if you or I look at it like a scoreboard, should I feel insignificant when making life decisions?  The only thing she's compromised is the dog thing which we agreed on.  And that's subjective, one person may want a cat instead of dog, or another may not care what breed of dog you get like how you feel. But we are both dog people and that mattered to both of us. If that's your point, then why did she care what breed the dog is? 
    The reason I state her using the loss of her sister as she does it with everything.  She even tried doing it with the Catholic church to try and convince them to play music not associated with the Church which is rarely allowed in Catholic churches if ever which I told her in advance.  Do you think I should just give her way every time she brings that up? Because that's where we are currently.  I let her have her way on nearly everything, due to her loss and myself not having gone through what she has to truly know her feelings. In hindsight, we should have gone to consoling long ago, but I have never been in a situation like this so I was naive to it all. 
    And painting a picture? I'd tried to give as much info so posters know the whole situation.  Would have it made sense to just post, "Should a 12 year old be on a party bus with people twice her age, a cooler full of alcoholic beverages and that's making a few stops for a drink?"  Is it painting a picture to state what we each wanted and what the decision we made was? 
    I state her loans as I tend to think more logically regarding finances.  I have no issues with her loans as that's why I'm with her but with those loans come tougher decisions when buying a house or having a wedding as we have the loans to pay off also.  If I had the same loans she had, we wouldn't even be able to afford the house we purchased.  Her loans are my loans now also.  That's why we decided to have her pay off as much as possibly, and I would save up as much as possible. 
    Another thing is we come from different sides of income and our family's view the value of a dollar differently.  FI parents live in a house worth almost twice as much as my parents house, and I know they make well over double what my parents make.  I have been driving 15-20 year old vehicles since high school as that's what I've been able to afford and I really don't care what car I drive until I'm more financial comfortable.  Meanwhile her parents, aunt, and grandma use to make comments regarding my car and try to make it seem like they are joking or being funny but that hurt my feeling as I know what they truly think about the car I drive. Why else mention it?  I talked to the FI about this, and she talked to her parents about it and they quit mentioning it. 

    But regardless, we obviously need consoling like you said and every previous poster stated.  I know this was bigger than the JB on the party bus kind of, just needed some outside perspectives to confirm it.
    Listen, I understand very much about overbearing in-laws. My ex-MIL was a damn nightmare. My point is it's a little contradictory to be living in their house, and not expect that they're going to be involved in your life. Are you paying them rent? Or are you living there for free? 

    You may not think you're keeping score. But your post absolutely reads as that.  

    I'm in my 40s. I well understand how debts work. 

    The thing is, you and your FI are not compromising. You're not acting as partners, which is why I suggested couples counseling BEFORE you get married. Because what's going on with you both now is not the recipe for a successful union. 
  • I'm going to say that there's so much that I read of the posts that tells me that there is score keeping, acting as if you're in charge of the finances and as if all of these decisions are "getting her way" or you getting "your way".  

    All of this is IMO a recipe for disaster.  It doesn't matter if you don't think you're keeping score - I can tell you that you are.  

    I'm also in my 40s and I'm married 14 years.  I can tell you that if these decisions are ones that are already problematic it won't get any better.  You need to put things hold until the two of you agree on how to proceed.  It's going to be better to deal with a cancelled wedding then an expensive divorce. 
  • To answer your question, I think a 12-year-old is too young to be on a party bus based on the atmosphere you're describing.  It's by far the least of all the issues that waves a red flag, and I ditto PP that you and your FI desperately need counseling.  The sense of you giving in or her "winning" is going to hurt you guys long term.  Compromise is important but in less of a "okay she won this round, so I'm getting my way next time" way and more of a "I want A and you want C so we've settled on B".  
  • You're unpacking a lot in your posts.

    For what it's worth, I agree that a 12-year-old is too young to be on a party bus with an adult atmosphere. But I also think that the wedding shouldn't take place until you and your FI get some couples counseling, she has time to work out more of her grief, and you can work out some true compromises between you without the need to keep score. I agree that she should not be allowed to perpetually use her grief to get whatever she wants from you and she needs to learn to make some concessions to you, but she may not yet be in a place where she can do that. She might need, in addition to couples counseling with you, some grief counseling. 

    So I would suggest that you put all wedding plans on hold until you and she have had the chance to get that counseling.
  • I think you need to take a marriage prep course. Didn't the church where you are getting married require this? My daughter and son-in-law did the pre-Cana thing and they thought it was helpful, but they wanted a bit more, so they did another one called SYMBIS (Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts.) It's a Christian curriculum (which I'm assuming you're okay with since you're having a Catholic wedding), but it is not heavy on the religion at all. It is, however, the only evidence-based pre-marital course out there. They will identify factors that are red flags, evaluate your commitment to marriage, and help you work through areas of conflict. And once you go through it, you will know if you are really ready for marriage. In fact, they will tell you if they think you shouldn't get married. But whether you do a marriage course or not, you shouldn't consider getting married without some counseling! You guys are just not ready at this point to be taking such a major step.
  • I agree that the party bus isn't appropriate for a 12-year-old. My husband was recently a groomsman in a wedding that had a party bus. None of the kids who were in the wedding party were on it, and it didn't sound to me like it would have been suitable for them. While I don't understand why you are going bar hopping before heading to your reception, that plan further cements that the party bus isn't kid-friendly.

    All this being said, this party bus issue is the least of your problems. It sounds like you and your FI have some major difficulties with communication and compromise. While I know it is painful and costly to postpone a wedding, I can't help thinking that you two are not ready to get married right now. I think you need to put wedding planning aside to work on these issues and go for counseling. You may find out through counseling that you shouldn't get married at all, which will hurt, but will also be better than getting divorced 5 years down the road because you still can't agree on anything. 

    As for your FI's grief over her sister's death, do you think that she's using it as an excuse to get what she wants, or that she truly cannot handle not getting her way because she's struggling so much with that grief? Either way, this also needs to be addressed in counseling. If you think she's using it as an excuse, that speaks to problems with communication and trust. If she's struggling so much that she can't take any sort of conflict over anything else, she needs help moving past that chapter of grief. Nobody should ever be expected to just "get over" the death of a loved one, but she can't use it as a way to avoid arguments or not getting what she wants forever. 


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  • It seems like both of you are used to getting your way and are still thinking about what’s best for you as individuals and not as a couple. This isn’t a great way to start a marriage. 

    Do you want to be married? If yes- it’s time for some premarital counseling to give you tools for communication, handling disagreements, handling family. If you don’t- that’s fine but don’t get any further into planning your lives together if you’re not certain you’re ready to be married to each other. 
  • No children should be on an Adult party bus.
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