Groomsman Etiquette Questions

computerman

I have some questions regarding etiquette for a groomsman. It's been a while since I've been in this position and the last two times were pretty easy--one guy was my best friend at the time and knew some of my anxieties, plus I had to leave his bachelor party early since I was making some food for his wedding. The other guy basically didn't have a bachelor party and had an expensive but low key wedding.

Now I'm thrust into this role again. I actually am closer with his fiancee than with him. I only know one other groomsman on his list of people outside of her family, so I have NO idea what these guys are planning.

Some questions here...

1. If these guys plan a bachelor party that includes something I am very uncomfortable with, is it OK of me to leave? I refuse to go to a strip club. Ever. I'm not sure if that's even in the cards for this guy, but if it is, am I able to just go home? I have very strong moral convictions against those establishments. I also do not go to nightclubs because of anxiety issues and a severe allergy to tobacco smoke.

2. Along the same lines with anxiety, is it OK for me, as a groomsman, to NOT dance at all at the reception? It's something that makes me so uncomfortable because of past experiences that I even have it in my own prenups that there will be no dancing at my wedding (we're going to replace the reception with a dinner anyhow). In the other weddings where I was a groomsman, there wasn't an expectation at the first one and at the second my buddy knew of my anxiety issue here and had me be the DJ (he had a DIY-type wedding and provided me with a speaker and an iPad) so I wouldn't have to thrust myself into this situation. My friend who is getting married this time around knows of my anxiety but we don't have a "Plan B" for me yet, so I'm hoping I don't look bad.

FYI: I did try to take a class in dance and was asked to leave after 15 minutes because I was that bad, so don't suggest classes or "just go and dance already". At other weddings, I'll usually stay and watch the bride and groom, then quietly sneak out after the floor opens and go home.

3. How about skipping cocktail hour, is that also permissible? Am I 100% expected to be there? At the last wedding I was at I managed to do this without any problem because the reception venue was a good half hour away in a town I wasn't familiar with. I simply stopped at a store off the beaten path, did a little shopping, and timed it so I'd enter right when it ended. Since I tend to get lost in new towns, nobody questioned it.

Simply put, I don't like drunk people coming up to me and interrogating me. FYI: I was nearly murdered by a drunk individual in college and am still suffering from PTSD as a result. At the other weddings, there was no cocktail hour since both were "dry" weddings, so again, no worries on those, but this guy isn't having a "dry" wedding.


I'm sort of wondering if I should just back out. I feel really good that he asked me to do this, plus he knows of my past issues with drunks, dancing, etc...but I know there are "standards" for groomsmen and I just don't want to let him down. 


Any input is helpful on this. I may have to have a one-on-one conversation with him soon.

banana468

Some of the things I think are perfectly fine IMO to put up as non negotiable but in others, I think if it's too much you are likely going to need to back out.

-Not going to a strip club is IMO something you are more than fine to say that you just don't do them and for health reasons you cannot be around tobacco smoke.  I'd be clear about that up front so the group understands. 

-Not dancing at the reception is not a big deal IMO.  I'd hope that any bride and groom aren't forcing group dances.  Are you open to compromising on a simple swaying back and forth?  Some dances don't need lessons and the ultimate dancing is turn in a circle.  Rather than attempt to know steps would  you be open to that? 

Regarding # 3 and the rest, I say this as nicely as possible that I think you need to consider seeking therapy for that situation.  If you're in the wedding party it's expected that you attend the cocktail hour where you yourself do not need to imbibe alcohol but you're expected to mingle.    Based on your age that your peers are getting married these may be some of the first kinds of events that you'll experience but the concept of having a cocktail hour happens at tons of social events especially in the business world.   The experience you went through sounds horrible and I do hope that you are seeking therapy for it as a result.  The PTSD is something that you should have help with while you work through it.

And in the meantime while you go through this I think you need to have an open conversation with your friend.  It may mean that you back out but I hope you are able to get to a point where you're able to be out and in social situations where alcohol is involved in the future. 

climbingsingle

I think it's fine to skip the bachelor party, especially if it's the kind of activity you don't want to be a part of. It's not required for you to attend. 

Totally fine as well to not dance at the wedding. I've never been to a wedding (and I've been to many) where the bridal party was expected to dance. I honestly don't think people would even notice, including the bride and groom. 

It's pretty rude to skip the cocktail hour, either if you're just a guest or in the wedding party. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for wanting to skip this. 

And here's where it goes a little off the rails for me. You have a prenup that says no dancing is allowed at your wedding? Even by other people? Are you currently engaged? 
I'll also echo what the PP said about therapy. I can understand PTSD from a past experience and I get it. I also don't enjoy being around drunk people when I'm not drinking. But it seems like you're expecting to never have to encounter drunk people for the rest of your life, and that's not quite realistic. The same with dancing. You're not always going to be able to control the people around you, or your environment. What about networking for your career? Family functions? 

Have a conversation with your friend about your concerns about your wedding. You can also decline being a groomsman - you have that option as well. 

computerman

To answer some questions here...

- I'm self-employed so I can pretty much control who I am around. It's not that I have a problem with people having a beer or a glass of wine. I enjoy either as long as it's just one. It's when people are off the rails drunk that I have an issue, and that has happened at plenty of weddings. I just don't want to put myself in that situation again after what happened years ago.

- I won't even do a simple "middle school sway" for dancing because, well, I can't even do that. The last time I tried I was lectured by someone as to how terrible I was, and that's not the first time it has happened. 

- There won't be a dance floor at my own wedding, so there is no issue there. I just want to have it in writing that I won't be thrust into that situation, even if it's with the one I'm marrying.

I will back out if there is a bridal party dance announced or simply have a good heart to heart about why I will not participate.

Never knew it was rude to skip cocktail hour. I know at some weddings they take a bunch of goofy pictures during that time so maybe we'll get a photographer who takes his/her time and it can be a get out of jail free card. I believe that's why they have them at some weddings, so let's hope it works here, especially since I believe the venue and reception hall are in the same place so I can't use a "geographical mishap" to get out of this...

Thanks for all the replies. Glad to know I can safely dodge certain bachelor party events if I need to!!

banana468

Consider that even if you're self employed things change.  You may sell a company one day, want to mingle as the business advances or work with clients.  I think you're looking at things through a very small lens if you think you have that much control.

Cocktail hours are often used as the time to take photos but they're not always used that way.  Once I was bustled DH and I attended our cocktail hour and it was one of the times used to try to mingle and see guests.   

Are you...engaged?  I understand the desire to avoid dancing but there's so much of what you write and how you write it that I hope you are really working through the issues that you have that resulted from that encounter.   I am truly sorry for what you're recovering from and hope you continue to get the therapy needed to move forward.

climbingsingle

Again, I have to reiterate that I hope you are in therapy. And I'm sorry that such a traumatic thing happened to you. 

You don't know that you'll always be self employed. You have no idea what the future holds. And it's extremely short sided to think you'll always have control over the people you're around. 

You didn't answer whether or not you're engaged so I'll assume you're not. What if you fall in love with someone that does like to dance? IMO writing a prenup to specifically included NO DANCING seems extreme. Ok, you were lectured by someone that your dancing was bad. So what? Who cares? What effect does that have on your life? If someone told me that I was bad at something (especially something like dancing, that's subjective and supposed to be fun), it would be more of a reflection on that person's own hang ups. Don't let other's opinions weigh so heavily on you. 

Again, I'm confused as to why you dislike cocktail hours so much. But a lot of times couples will do all their pictures before the ceremony - it's not always custom to have pictures taken during the cocktail hour. 

computerman

OK--lots of questions, lots of answers coming...

1. I am not engaged yet, hoping to do so in the spring, but probable future wife and I have already discuss the prenup plan and she is 100% on board with it. I have to make one anyhow since I own a business (to separate my assets from a marriage) and she completely gets my issue with dancing. This will be her second marriage and she had a bad experience at one of the "textbook weddings" with all the bells and whistles, so we BOTH want something small scale that won't trigger anxiety on either of our parts.

2. I do have someone to talk to about these things, so I have bounced ideas around. However, I have a big question to ask here...would you invite a military veteran with PTSD to a fireworks show? That's right, you wouldn't. Why would you expect someone to be in a situation where people are acting similarly to a near death experience? I have developed, with the help and advice of others, some strategies for situations like these.

3. Aside from needing to avoid places like bars, loud parties, etc, I live a very normal life and cope pretty well, but party-type atmospheres usually are a "no" for me. I'm self-employed by choice and it's not to avoid people I don't want to be around or to control them. It's why I won't usually go to places where people can have unlimited drinks--hence why I dislike cocktail hours, especially when people get wicked drunk.


So I'm getting the following out of this...

- it's OK to skip out on bachelor party events that are uncomfortable
- it's OK to not dance
- I need to talk to someone about a coping strategy for the cocktail hour

MyNameIsNot

computerman said:

OK--lots of questions, lots of answers coming...

1. I am not engaged yet, hoping to do so in the spring, but probable future wife and I have already discuss the prenup plan and she is 100% on board with it. I have to make one anyhow since I own a business (to separate my assets from a marriage) and she completely gets my issue with dancing. This will be her second marriage and she had a bad experience at one of the "textbook weddings" with all the bells and whistles, so we BOTH want something small scale that won't trigger anxiety on either of our parts.

2. I do have someone to talk to about these things, so I have bounced ideas around. However, I have a big question to ask here...would you invite a military veteran with PTSD to a fireworks show? That's right, you wouldn't. Why would you expect someone to be in a situation where people are acting similarly to a near death experience? I have developed, with the help and advice of others, some strategies for situations like these.

3. Aside from needing to avoid places like bars, loud parties, etc, I live a very normal life and cope pretty well, but party-type atmospheres usually are a "no" for me. I'm self-employed by choice and it's not to avoid people I don't want to be around or to control them. It's why I won't usually go to places where people can have unlimited drinks--hence why I dislike cocktail hours, especially when people get wicked drunk.


So I'm getting the following out of this...

- it's OK to skip out on bachelor party events that are uncomfortable
- it's OK to not dance
- I need to talk to someone about a coping strategy for the cocktail hour

Agree that this is the immediate need, but your concern about cocktail hour doesn't really make sense. You seem to be imagining that people are going to leave the ceremony and immediately become drunk and start interrogating you, but then that they'll sober up for the rest of the reception? Typically during a cocktail hour people mill around and have a drink or two along with some appetizers. It's usually a mild amount of small talk before people make their way to their tables for dinner. If your concern is about being around people who are drunk, the bigger concern would be after dinner toward the end of the reception. That's usually when people have had a few drinks and start to cut loose. It wouldn't be odd for you to slide out of the reception early, especially if it's the kind of party where the focus shifts to the dance floor after dinner. If you don't think you can attend the reception at all, you are probably better off not being in the wedding.

But I really agree with others about seeking therapy. Your unrealistic and rigid approach to other people's behaviors is not going to serve you well long term. 

banana468

MyNameIsNot said:

computerman said:

OK--lots of questions, lots of answers coming...

1. I am not engaged yet, hoping to do so in the spring, but probable future wife and I have already discuss the prenup plan and she is 100% on board with it. I have to make one anyhow since I own a business (to separate my assets from a marriage) and she completely gets my issue with dancing. This will be her second marriage and she had a bad experience at one of the "textbook weddings" with all the bells and whistles, so we BOTH want something small scale that won't trigger anxiety on either of our parts.

2. I do have someone to talk to about these things, so I have bounced ideas around. However, I have a big question to ask here...would you invite a military veteran with PTSD to a fireworks show? That's right, you wouldn't. Why would you expect someone to be in a situation where people are acting similarly to a near death experience? I have developed, with the help and advice of others, some strategies for situations like these.

3. Aside from needing to avoid places like bars, loud parties, etc, I live a very normal life and cope pretty well, but party-type atmospheres usually are a "no" for me. I'm self-employed by choice and it's not to avoid people I don't want to be around or to control them. It's why I won't usually go to places where people can have unlimited drinks--hence why I dislike cocktail hours, especially when people get wicked drunk.


So I'm getting the following out of this...

- it's OK to skip out on bachelor party events that are uncomfortable
- it's OK to not dance
- I need to talk to someone about a coping strategy for the cocktail hour

Agree that this is the immediate need, but your concern about cocktail hour doesn't really make sense. You seem to be imagining that people are going to leave the ceremony and immediately become drunk and start interrogating you, but then that they'll sober up for the rest of the reception? Typically during a cocktail hour people mill around and have a drink or two along with some appetizers. It's usually a mild amount of small talk before people make their way to their tables for dinner. If your concern is about being around people who are drunk, the bigger concern would be after dinner toward the end of the reception. That's usually when people have had a few drinks and start to cut loose. It wouldn't be odd for you to slide out of the reception early, especially if it's the kind of party where the focus shifts to the dance floor after dinner.

But I really agree with others about seeking therapy. Your unrealistic and rigid approach to other people's behaviors is not going to serve you well long term. 

All of this.  I truly hope you're not just talking to another person but that the person has specific training in therapeutic practices for those suffering from trauma related issues.

There is a lot of what you're writing that speaks of fear but also a rigid and unrealistic expectation of the ability to control those around you with defensive deflection that isn't really comparable. 

At any wedding I've ever attended, it's the end that is craziest and that's when it's easiest to slip out.  The cocktail hour portion is where everyone is far more  tame.

climbingsingle

Again, IME people don't get hammered at the cocktail hour. It usually starts right after the ceremony, where people typically aren't drinking. They'll arrive at the cocktail hour, probably wait for a while at the bar depending on how crowded it is, and then eat. If anything, it's after dinner when people get the most loose. 

My fiance and I are planning our respective second weddings. We've also decided to have a laid back dinner after our ceremony instead of a full on reception with a DJ, etc. So again, I understand. What I think is troubling is the fact that you feel the need to include this in a prenup. We're signing a prenup to protect our own interests. But if you feel the need to include "no dancing" in your prenup, I think that's a big red flag. 

computerman

OK, so it's not as bad as I had thought. Probably good here because my experience with these things is limited and I figured this forum would have people who knew stuff about this.

I know some of you think the prenup is a red flag, but I want that in writing so nobody can try to force this upon us. 

The person I talk to is indeed a clinician. 

Still, I'm curious why some people want to thrust people into uncomfortable situations that may be traumatizing for the sake of tradition. 

I'm likely going to back out of this groomsman thing though. I don't want to stay around the whole time, don't really know most of the people at the wedding outside of a few folks, and now am wondering what I should say to back out.

computerman

Also, I'm not sure where all of you are getting the impression that I want to control people around me. That is NOT the case. If I worded something incorrectly, I will clarify.

The only thing that I can even see that comes off as me wanting control is the prenup deal, and that's something that's already been agreed to with zero reservation by both parties before it becomes official.

How is leaving an uncomfortable situation wanting to control behaviors of others?

I only want to be in complete control of my own ability to do what is best for me. That includes my ability to be able to leave if I need to, which has been my strategy since the incident happened years ago and something I have worked on with professionals.

climbingsingle

computerman said:

OK, so it's not as bad as I had thought. Probably good here because my experience with these things is limited and I figured this forum would have people who knew stuff about this.

I know some of you think the prenup is a red flag, but I want that in writing so nobody can try to force this upon us. 

The person I talk to is indeed a clinician. 

Still, I'm curious why some people want to thrust people into uncomfortable situations that may be traumatizing for the sake of tradition. 

I'm likely going to back out of this groomsman thing though. I don't want to stay around the whole time, don't really know most of the people at the wedding outside of a few folks, and now am wondering what I should say to back out.

I don't think a prenup is a bad thing. My fiance and I will be signing one as well. What I think is troubling is the fact that you're including a "no dancing" clause in the prenup. Again, I'm unclear how this is even being worded - are you asking your fiance to agree to never make you dance? If she already agrees to it, why is that even necessary? And a prenup is not going to be able to protect you from other people "trying to force this upon" you. Again, it's not very clear to me. 

I think you're fine to not have dancing at your wedding. I think it's fine to not go to bars/clubs and put yourself in an environment that will cause you distress. Who is trying to thrust you into that? 

And I agree that it's probably your best bet to back out of the wedding. 

climbingsingle

computerman said:

Also, I'm not sure where all of you are getting the impression that I want to control people around me. That is NOT the case. If I worded something incorrectly, I will clarify.

The only thing that I can even see that comes off as me wanting control is the prenup deal, and that's something that's already been agreed to with zero reservation by both parties before it becomes official.

How is leaving an uncomfortable situation wanting to control behaviors of others?

I only want to be in complete control of my own ability to do what is best for me. That includes my ability to be able to leave if I need to, which has been my strategy since the incident happened years ago and something I have worked on with professionals.

I think it was this from a previous post:
- I'm self-employed so I can pretty much control who I am around
that led people to get the impression that you could control every environment you're in, not necessarily that you want to control people. 

computerman

Ahhh yes, I did word that pretty badly!! (I hope my high school English teacher doesn't see this haha!)

That prepositional phrase came out really badly!!! Someone please get a red pen out and mark that one for me!!

I can control who I am associating with and where I go--not controlling people themselves!!

In other words, I don't need to have corporate parties, go to bars for work events, etc. I can simply have professional conversations online, in the park (where I prefer to meet people), etc. 

I can't control the environment or the people, but I can control where I am at. That's what I meant to say.  

I'll gladly give myself a nice D minus here in English today.

flantastic

Looks like everyone has moved on, but thanks to you ladies for your patient sussing out of things and firm-but-kind advice.

@computerman, count me as one of those who doesn't understand how a prenup comes into it. I'm not certain you understand what they do. Are you planning to try to invalidate your marriage if your future wife ever asks you to dance? Do you expect that it has any effect whatsoever if the bridal party tries to put you on the dance floor (a dance floor you won't be having)? The triggers of your insecurities - which I agree with others you should work through - can't really be legally bound. Just ask people to respect your boundaries. If you're asked to dance, say no.

And I'm glad you seem to be realizing that the cocktail hour is likely not a time where you will encounter any truly drunk persons and therefore not as worthy of stress as you thought.