Do you want to be 'right' or supportive?

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

My sister and I got divorced the same year. Mine was relatively mild compared to hers since we didn’t have kids to quarrel over and force us back together in close quarters. Since then, my sister and I have both tried dating, but I have had far more success. She has been rather bitter about it and constantly complains how she can’t find any good men. The ones she has liked got cold feet once she finally told them about her kids. She dated one guy three weeks before revealing the truth. After the umpteenth conversation, I finally told my sister she was setting herself up for disappointment. She was lying to these men by not being truthful right off the bat. My sister snapped; she didn’t want to lead with any baggage like crazy baby mama drama. I told her she just proved her own point. She ended up kicking me out and currently isn’t talking to me. I know I was rather blunt, but she was like a dog with a bone in our conversations. Is there anything else I could have done? I love my sister but she is driving me nuts.

— But the Baggage

MyNameIsNot

She isn't talking to you but she's driving you nuts? So she's driving you nuts by not doing exactly what you tell her to. 

People don't have to take your advice. 

VarunaTT

Apologize to her and then don't discuss dating with each other anymore.

banana468

MyNameIsNot said:

She isn't talking to you but she's driving you nuts? So she's driving you nuts by not doing exactly what you tell her to. 

People don't have to take your advice. 

THIS.  Your sister is not putting all cards on the table for a few WEEKS.  It's not like she's keeping things hidden for a long time.  

Stop acting like the authority.  You sound insufferable. 

charlotte989875

So she had a more difficult time with a the divorce, she’s presumably helping her kids through divorced parent life, and she’s having a hard time figuring out dating so you think the thing to do is kick her when she’s down? 

mrsconn23

This sounds like sibling competition shit.  I wonder if LW is the older sibling and therefore is used to being the 'right' one OR if LW is a younger sibling that was often at odds with their sister (even just internally) growing up and is now like, "Oh now she's failing/flailing!"

Either way, LW is the biggest asshole here since instead of seeing this as a massively traumatic event for their sister (and her children) and something they can have some sort of shared experience over, getting divorced AND dating again, they are using it to further cut their sister down.  LW may not even realize they're doing it, but I hope they follow Prudie's advice about leading with an empathetic, "I hate this for you..." instead of a laundry list of what she's doing 'wrong'.  That is if their sister will ever talk to them again. 

short+sassy

I'm a bit more on the LW's side than you all.  

But if a close friend/family member was telling me how they constantly have a problem with men getting cold feet as soon as they mention they have a child.  And I also know they are going on at least a few dates before they even mention they're a mother.  I would give exactly the same advice the LW did.  Though it sounds like they didn't say it very nicely or compassionately.

And that is where they were wrong.  Not so much the advice itself, but the delivery.

I'm also a bit curious.  "Do you have any kids?" was typically part of a first date or even "before" a first date conversation.  Did it really just not come up sooner with these dates?  Or did the sister lie about it or lie in her profile (if online dating)? 

VarunaTT

The reason why I said LW should apologize and then they shouldn't discuss it is that I think LW got frustrated and lashed out.  That happens. If they can't bean dip their sister, then it's time to make the boundary really clear and start leaving conversations if sister can't respect the boundary.

I don't necessarily think LW is wrong in what they think.  Saying that their sister was lying was out of line, but if these men don't want to see her b/c she has kids, well....shouldn't that just be up front?  When I was dating online before my last relationship (I was going to type pre-K and started laughing), I put in my profile that I didn't have children and didn't want to date anyone with children, b/c I didn't even want to wade into those waters and, quite frankly, I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time who has children.  It's a deal breaker for me, not a "maybe the right one will make me change my mind".  Even now, the only way I'd change that is b/c at my age, most people with children are mostly older kids.  I think I might be agreeable to college age kids, or ever better, out of the house adult kids with their own lives.  I don't want to be a mother or stepmother in any way, shape, or form.  Most profiles I saw addressed the children issue up front.  Sister is being a bit shady, IMHO.

ETA:  And if I did start seeing someone and found out they had school age kids?  Yep, I'd stop seeing them.  Again, it's a deal breaker, not a preference.  Just like it would've been for my marriage.

EETA:  And she's not having a hard time dating.  She's having a hard time figuring out how to not get caught lying.  I think LW was expressing frustration that sister is basically complaining about a situation sister created.  And yeah, I'd be pretty sick of that too.

banana468

VarunaTT said:

The reason why I said LW should apologize and then they shouldn't discuss it is that I think LW got frustrated and lashed out.  That happens. If they can't bean dip their sister, then it's time to make the boundary really clear and start leaving conversations if sister can't respect the boundary.

I don't necessarily think LW is wrong in what they think.  Saying that their sister was lying was out of line, but if these men don't want to see her b/c she has kids, well....shouldn't that just be up front?  When I was dating online before my last relationship (I was going to type pre-K and started laughing), I put in my profile that I didn't have children and didn't want to date anyone with children, b/c I didn't even want to wade into those waters and, quite frankly, I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time who has children.  It's a deal breaker for me, not a "maybe the right one will make me change my mind".  Even now, the only way I'd change that is b/c at my age, most people with children are mostly older kids.  I think I might be agreeable to college age kids, or ever better, out of the house adult kids with their own lives.  I don't want to be a mother or stepmother in any way, shape, or form.  Most profiles I saw addressed the children issue up front.  Sister is being a bit shady, IMHO.

ETA:  And if I did start seeing someone and found out they had school age kids?  Yep, I'd stop seeing them.  Again, it's a deal breaker, not a preference.  Just like it would've been for my marriage.

EETA:  And she's not having a hard time dating.  She's having a hard time figuring out how to not get caught lying.  I think LW was expressing frustration that sister is basically complaining about a situation sister created.  And yeah, I'd be pretty sick of that too.

That's interesting.  The way I read it was that she dated someone for a few weeks and then started to peel back the layers of the onion about the kids.  And in a way I can see that she's wanting to see if there's a connection before getting that information out.

That said, she's either bad at this technique, it's a bad technique or she's lying about things and then saying, "When I said I didn't have kids I lied," which isn't the same as just not bringing them up.  

short+sassy

VarunaTT said:

The reason why I said LW should apologize and then they shouldn't discuss it is that I think LW got frustrated and lashed out.  That happens. If they can't bean dip their sister, then it's time to make the boundary really clear and start leaving conversations if sister can't respect the boundary.

I don't necessarily think LW is wrong in what they think.  Saying that their sister was lying was out of line, but if these men don't want to see her b/c she has kids, well....shouldn't that just be up front?  When I was dating online before my last relationship (I was going to type pre-K and started laughing), I put in my profile that I didn't have children and didn't want to date anyone with children, b/c I didn't even want to wade into those waters and, quite frankly, I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time who has children.  It's a deal breaker for me, not a "maybe the right one will make me change my mind".  Even now, the only way I'd change that is b/c at my age, most people with children are mostly older kids.  I think I might be agreeable to college age kids, or ever better, out of the house adult kids with their own lives.  I don't want to be a mother or stepmother in any way, shape, or form.  Most profiles I saw addressed the children issue up front.  Sister is being a bit shady, IMHO.

ETA:  And if I did start seeing someone and found out they had school age kids?  Yep, I'd stop seeing them.  Again, it's a deal breaker, not a preference.  Just like it would've been for my marriage.

EETA:  And she's not having a hard time dating.  She's having a hard time figuring out how to not get caught lying.  I think LW was expressing frustration that sister is basically complaining about a situation sister created.  And yeah, I'd be pretty sick of that too.

It's funny how one's own age can change the parameters on the kid question.  I totally get it!

Last time I was single, I was in my mid-20s and big on online dating.  I wasn't sure myself yet if kids were off the table.  However, I did know that I didn't want to date someone who was the custodial parent to their child(ren), especially young children.  Shared custody, like 50/50, wasn't necessarily a deal breaker for me, so I didn't say in my profile that kids were a no-go.  But there were definitely child custody configurations that would be.  Usually in a normal flow of conversation it came up.  But, if it didn't, I asked.

If I were single now, I'd definitely be less concerned about it, lol.  Because most people my age don't have young children.  They are already adults or at least in high school.

But if I don't find out until date #3 or #4 that they have three elementary school-aged children living with them, I would be pissed.  Nobody is so amazing or charming that I'm going to overlook the fact that I don't want to regularly interact with children.  And a single parent shouldn't want to date someone like me either.

I do want to add that I like children and enjoy spending time with them.  Just not on an ever day and for years, basis.

VarunaTT

banana468 said:

VarunaTT said:

The reason why I said LW should apologize and then they shouldn't discuss it is that I think LW got frustrated and lashed out.  That happens. If they can't bean dip their sister, then it's time to make the boundary really clear and start leaving conversations if sister can't respect the boundary.

I don't necessarily think LW is wrong in what they think.  Saying that their sister was lying was out of line, but if these men don't want to see her b/c she has kids, well....shouldn't that just be up front?  When I was dating online before my last relationship (I was going to type pre-K and started laughing), I put in my profile that I didn't have children and didn't want to date anyone with children, b/c I didn't even want to wade into those waters and, quite frankly, I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time who has children.  It's a deal breaker for me, not a "maybe the right one will make me change my mind".  Even now, the only way I'd change that is b/c at my age, most people with children are mostly older kids.  I think I might be agreeable to college age kids, or ever better, out of the house adult kids with their own lives.  I don't want to be a mother or stepmother in any way, shape, or form.  Most profiles I saw addressed the children issue up front.  Sister is being a bit shady, IMHO.

ETA:  And if I did start seeing someone and found out they had school age kids?  Yep, I'd stop seeing them.  Again, it's a deal breaker, not a preference.  Just like it would've been for my marriage.

EETA:  And she's not having a hard time dating.  She's having a hard time figuring out how to not get caught lying.  I think LW was expressing frustration that sister is basically complaining about a situation sister created.  And yeah, I'd be pretty sick of that too.

That's interesting.  The way I read it was that she dated someone for a few weeks and then started to peel back the layers of the onion about the kids.  And in a way I can see that she's wanting to see if there's a connection before getting that information out.

That said, she's either bad at this technique, it's a bad technique or she's lying about things and then saying, "When I said I didn't have kids I lied," which isn't the same as just not bringing them up.  

I assumed it was a lie of omission, just b/c of the verbage in OP, "revealing the truth".  Which is why I think it's terribly shady, b/c she's accessing a pool of daters she wouldn't if she was being honest, so yeah, it probably does suck for her.

I mean, this is part of the issue I'm having dating women in my area.  Most WLW don't have children until their 30s.  So, a LOT of women in the age bracket I'm interested in dating, have toddlers up to young teens.  I'm just not interested...check back in 10 years. 

charlotte989875

Just saying even with a small sample here there a folks who immediately don’t want to date someone with kids, and maybe that is what LW is finding hard to navigate and take. It’s not wrong at all for people to have preferences (and they *should* be up front if those are dealbreakers) but that can be hard for someone dating for the first time in years to work through. 

VarunaTT

charlotte989875 said:

Just saying even with a small sample here there a folks who immediately don’t want to date someone with kids, and maybe that is what LW is finding hard to navigate and take. It’s not wrong at all for people to have preferences (and they *should* be up front if those are dealbreakers) but that can be hard for someone dating for the first time in years to work through. 

I can absolutely see and support that.  I've taken some guff over the years for my stance and be lectured about it, as well as had friends who are parents who absolutely understand.  Sure, I might be missing out on some great people, but I don't want to be a parent, so they're not great for me.  Getting back into the dating pool sucks anyway, but she seems to be making it harder for herself if she's not looking at the right pool.

I also have friends who are parents who don't want to date people with kids.  I feel like that's really the hardest sell of all.

MyNameIsNot

VarunaTT said:

The reason why I said LW should apologize and then they shouldn't discuss it is that I think LW got frustrated and lashed out.  That happens. If they can't bean dip their sister, then it's time to make the boundary really clear and start leaving conversations if sister can't respect the boundary.

I don't necessarily think LW is wrong in what they think.  Saying that their sister was lying was out of line, but if these men don't want to see her b/c she has kids, well....shouldn't that just be up front?  When I was dating online before my last relationship (I was going to type pre-K and started laughing), I put in my profile that I didn't have children and didn't want to date anyone with children, b/c I didn't even want to wade into those waters and, quite frankly, I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time who has children.  It's a deal breaker for me, not a "maybe the right one will make me change my mind".  Even now, the only way I'd change that is b/c at my age, most people with children are mostly older kids.  I think I might be agreeable to college age kids, or ever better, out of the house adult kids with their own lives.  I don't want to be a mother or stepmother in any way, shape, or form.  Most profiles I saw addressed the children issue up front.  Sister is being a bit shady, IMHO.

ETA:  And if I did start seeing someone and found out they had school age kids?  Yep, I'd stop seeing them.  Again, it's a deal breaker, not a preference.  Just like it would've been for my marriage.

EETA:  And she's not having a hard time dating.  She's having a hard time figuring out how to not get caught lying.  I think LW was expressing frustration that sister is basically complaining about a situation sister created.  And yeah, I'd be pretty sick of that too.

I don't disagree with any of this. I wouldn't date anyone with kids, full stop. If I found out 3 weeks in, I'd drop them fast.

I'm not sure whether the sister is actually looking for constructive criticism or just venting, but it doesn't seem like LW really has the finesse to really offer that kind of coaching. Sometimes people just have to figure stuff out the hard way.