Missing his wife was not manipulation, you asshat.

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

I had a good friend, “Dave,” who lost his wife about 10 years ago. On the anniversary of her death, he posts a remembrance on Facebook, which is fine. Everyone experiences grief in different ways. What bothers me is Dave cannot seem to move on in his life. He has lots of friends and a great but stressful job and is generally a people-pleaser. Over the years, he has expressed to me how lonely he is and how much he misses his wife to the point of trying to manipulate me to feel sorry for him after endless talks and tears about his life. I also think he hits the booze and pot just a bit too much. He said he has gone to counseling, but I could not see any evidence of it. He talks a lot and doesn’t listen, plays the victim, and has crossed boundaries numerous times, plus he can’t take “no” for an answer. The bottom line: I lost patience with him after several years of this. It got to the point that for my own sanity, I had to distance myself from him and block him on my phone because he would not stop texting me after I made it clear that I was no longer engaged in our friendship. I feel terrible about this, but I saw no other way out. I don’t miss him, so why do I feel bad about walking away?

—Grieving Former Friend

climbingsingle

You feel bad because deep down you know you handled it in a shitty way and bailed on your grieving friend? Just a thought...

STARMOON44

You feel bad because setting boundaries is hard. I think it was fine to walk away from this friendship but you don’t need to make up a story of him being a bad person to justify it. 

short+sassy

climbingsingle said:

You feel bad because deep down you know you handled it in a shitty way and bailed on your grieving friend? Just a thought...

I mostly disagree.  The LW didn't bail on the friendship shortly after the wife passed away.  They were still friends with this guy for years afterward.  It also sounds like they tried to talk to the friend many times about the fact that they needed to lay down boundaries and can't be an endless vessel for the friend to dump their grief into.

The part I agree with is they probably still do feel bad ending a long-term and close friendship, especially because their friend was dealt such an awful hand in life.

Though I do find it odd they wrote to Prudie when they also said they don't miss the friendship.  Especially since I didn't get the impression that leaving the friendship was something that happened recently.  Though if it did, then I could understand better why it's still weighing on the LW.

climbingsingle

short+sassy said:

climbingsingle said:

You feel bad because deep down you know you handled it in a shitty way and bailed on your grieving friend? Just a thought...

I mostly disagree.  The LW didn't bail on the friendship shortly after the wife passed away.  They were still friends with this guy for years afterward.  It also sounds like they tried to talk to the friend many times about the fact that they needed to lay down boundaries and can't be an endless vessel for the friend to dump their grief into.

The part I agree with is they probably still do feel bad ending a long-term and close friendship, especially because their friend was dealt such an awful hand in life.

Though I do find it odd they wrote to Prudie when they also said they don't miss the friendship.  Especially since I didn't get the impression that leaving the friendship was something that happened recently.  Though if it did, then I could understand better why it's still weighing on the LW.

I think he's trying a little too hard to paint his friend in a bad light to make himself feel justified. Saying that his friend manipulated him into feeling sorry for him? 

VarunaTT

Just because you made a decision that was right for you, doesn't mean the decision can't feel like swallowing razors.  Ending friendships is hard, even when it's the choice you need to make for your own boundaries with yourself.

Maybe some counseling to learn how to deal with guilt/shame?  I'm sure LW feels like crap b/c it's also not just "didn't respect my boundaries" but also "friend is in a really bad position and I can't support anymore".  That is really difficult to deal with and I still can't handle it very well.  Learning to sit with discomfort, anyone's, is hard and probably always will and always should be.

short+sassy

climbingsingle said:

short+sassy said:

climbingsingle said:

You feel bad because deep down you know you handled it in a shitty way and bailed on your grieving friend? Just a thought...

I mostly disagree.  The LW didn't bail on the friendship shortly after the wife passed away.  They were still friends with this guy for years afterward.  It also sounds like they tried to talk to the friend many times about the fact that they needed to lay down boundaries and can't be an endless vessel for the friend to dump their grief into.

The part I agree with is they probably still do feel bad ending a long-term and close friendship, especially because their friend was dealt such an awful hand in life.

Though I do find it odd they wrote to Prudie when they also said they don't miss the friendship.  Especially since I didn't get the impression that leaving the friendship was something that happened recently.  Though if it did, then I could understand better why it's still weighing on the LW.

I think he's trying a little too hard to paint his friend in a bad light to make himself feel justified. Saying that his friend manipulated him into feeling sorry for him? 

That's true.  That was an unfair line in the letter.

But the rest of the letter sounds like this is an exhausting person who hasn't been much of a friend for years, despite the LW telling this person how they were feeling.

VarunaTT

climbingsingle said:

short+sassy said:

climbingsingle said:

You feel bad because deep down you know you handled it in a shitty way and bailed on your grieving friend? Just a thought...

I mostly disagree.  The LW didn't bail on the friendship shortly after the wife passed away.  They were still friends with this guy for years afterward.  It also sounds like they tried to talk to the friend many times about the fact that they needed to lay down boundaries and can't be an endless vessel for the friend to dump their grief into.

The part I agree with is they probably still do feel bad ending a long-term and close friendship, especially because their friend was dealt such an awful hand in life.

Though I do find it odd they wrote to Prudie when they also said they don't miss the friendship.  Especially since I didn't get the impression that leaving the friendship was something that happened recently.  Though if it did, then I could understand better why it's still weighing on the LW.

I think he's trying a little too hard to paint his friend in a bad light to make himself feel justified. Saying that his friend manipulated him into feeling sorry for him? 

I also read that and considered that maybe LW needs to write a story where his friend is manipulating him, to make LW's decision to end the friendship easier.  That's not the healthiest thing to do, but it might be the only tool LW has.  It's easier to be angry at someone and make it their fault the relationship had to end, than it is to sit with discomfort and pain over a decision you had to make for yourself and your own health that feels unjustified.

climbingsingle

VarunaTT said:

climbingsingle said:

short+sassy said:

climbingsingle said:

You feel bad because deep down you know you handled it in a shitty way and bailed on your grieving friend? Just a thought...

I mostly disagree.  The LW didn't bail on the friendship shortly after the wife passed away.  They were still friends with this guy for years afterward.  It also sounds like they tried to talk to the friend many times about the fact that they needed to lay down boundaries and can't be an endless vessel for the friend to dump their grief into.

The part I agree with is they probably still do feel bad ending a long-term and close friendship, especially because their friend was dealt such an awful hand in life.

Though I do find it odd they wrote to Prudie when they also said they don't miss the friendship.  Especially since I didn't get the impression that leaving the friendship was something that happened recently.  Though if it did, then I could understand better why it's still weighing on the LW.

I think he's trying a little too hard to paint his friend in a bad light to make himself feel justified. Saying that his friend manipulated him into feeling sorry for him? 

I also read that and considered that maybe LW needs to write a story where his friend is manipulating him, to make LW's decision to end the friendship easier.  That's not the healthiest thing to do, but it might be the only tool LW has.  It's easier to be angry at someone and make it their fault the relationship had to end, than it is to sit with discomfort and pain over a decision you had to make for yourself and your own health that feels unjustified.

Very true and good points. 

charlotte989875

Did anyone read the bustle article about HR/Therapy speak making us more selfish? It was fascinating when it takes about people using language around boundaries and self care in ending friendships and this letter made me think of it!

mrsconn23

charlotte989875 said:

Did anyone read the bustle article about HR/Therapy speak making us more selfish? It was fascinating when it takes about people using language around boundaries and self care in ending friendships and this letter made me think of it!

I'm halfway through today's Hysteria podcast and they're talking about that article.  I am planning to go find it and read it.  The ladies of Hysteria are talking about how therapy speak is used for virtue signaling and also to avoid accountability.  So I'm excited to listen to the rest of their conversation and to read what bustle has to say about it. 

banana468

I think LW could use way more compassion but also highly recommend therapy.   If Dave is defined as a widow after nearly a decade then this is a sign of a serious depression if he's not moving on.  So LW was probably a jerk about it and Dave needs to acknowledge that he needs to have a strategy to deal with mourning his wife and moving on knowing that he's still honoring her even if he's happy. 

VarunaTT

charlotte989875 said:

Did anyone read the bustle article about HR/Therapy speak making us more selfish? It was fascinating when it takes about people using language around boundaries and self care in ending friendships and this letter made me think of it!

I remember me and @mrsconn23 one time hoping that the language around boundaries didn't get elevated to a point where it was meaningless.

I think people forget that boundaries don't mean you to get to dictate how other people behave.  The boundary is for yourself personally and dictates your behavior.  I also think a lot of the conversation is confusing b/c we talk about having boundaries, but not how to deal with other people having boundaries and what that means for us.

charlotte989875

mrsconn23 said:

charlotte989875 said:

Did anyone read the bustle article about HR/Therapy speak making us more selfish? It was fascinating when it takes about people using language around boundaries and self care in ending friendships and this letter made me think of it!

I'm halfway through today's Hysteria podcast and they're talking about that article.  I am planning to go find it and read it.  The ladies of Hysteria are talking about how therapy speak is used for virtue signaling and also to avoid accountability.  So I'm excited to listen to the rest of their conversation and to read what bustle has to say about it. 

https://www.bustle.com/wellness/is-therapy-speak-making-us-selfish

It’s super interesting! I’ll have to go find the podcast now!!

levioosa

I also think the problem is that therapy speak has given already shitty people more tools to continue acting shitty and to explain it in a legitimizing way. Of course there’s the nuances the article mentions too. 

BIL is a textbook narcissist. It’s been years but finally other people in the family are seeing it too. He has “gone to therapy” but then he absolutely uses the language to manipulate and justify how he treats people (when he’s not saying he treated them horribly “for their own good.”)

mrsconn23

charlotte989875 said:

mrsconn23 said:

charlotte989875 said:

Did anyone read the bustle article about HR/Therapy speak making us more selfish? It was fascinating when it takes about people using language around boundaries and self care in ending friendships and this letter made me think of it!

I'm halfway through today's Hysteria podcast and they're talking about that article.  I am planning to go find it and read it.  The ladies of Hysteria are talking about how therapy speak is used for virtue signaling and also to avoid accountability.  So I'm excited to listen to the rest of their conversation and to read what bustle has to say about it. 

https://www.bustle.com/wellness/is-therapy-speak-making-us-selfish

It’s super interesting! I’ll have to go find the podcast now!!

OMG, that article made me ragey.  What a bunch of self-entitled assholes (with the caveat that the subjects were speaking the truth as responsibly as possible).  The one where the couple accused the one lady of being abusive to her spouse and then were all, "Oh sorry, that was our issues."  Nah, fuck you.  Those people are likely better off without those people in their lives, but what a way to send someone in a tailspin in in the interest of your own 'self-care'.  

I am so frustrated with how language has been weaponized and things that are true and real for some people become meaningless because everyone has adopted it as everyday vernacular.  I guess this will cycle out just like saying you're "OCD" or "ADD" or the r-word have fallen off because there was pushback to using them.  But the damage has to reach a fever-pitch in the meantime.  Ughhh.