Why did you put them on a relationship pedestal in the first place?

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

My girlfriend and I are fighting about the break up of a pair of long-time mutual friends, “Jane” and “Jack.” Everyone thought Jane and Jack would end up married with the perfect white picket fence life. But then there was an unplanned pregnancy. Jack didn’t want it. Jane decided she did and was going to keep the baby despite the fact that she and Jack had made a long-term decision to abort if something like this happened.

Jack acted supportive but he was clearly stressed out and worried since they were living paycheck to paycheck. Jane ended up having an early miscarriage and Jack admitted to me that he only felt relief and that it was for the best. The problem is that Jane wouldn’t let it go and kept picking fights with Jack in public—saying things like he never wanted the baby and he would have been a bad dad. Jack finally snapped and asked Jane what she wanted him to say because he clearly wasn’t entitled to his own feelings about the subject. Jane cursed him out and Jack said they should just break up then. Jane got even more upset and it got very ugly and a lot of people chose sides. My girlfriend thinks that 100% of the problem was Jack and hates that I don’t.

I fully agree with a woman’s right to choose but I sympathize with how Jack got blindsided by Jane here. I would feel the same if my girlfriend did that to me (we have had similar conversations about what to do if she got pregnant). Since then, I have started to double up on birth control by using condoms. My girlfriend hates it and says it makes her feel like I don’t trust her. I love her but the entire lesson that I learned from this is that I don’t want to be a dad right now and need to be vigilant about that fact. Is this a situation that we can through or not?

—Not Kidding

MyNameIsNot

omg, Jack and Jill need to learn how to keep some stuff to themselves. This situation is more complicated than I'm right; you're wrong. You're all pretty immature if you can't see that. 

I don't get the trust thing from your girlfriend. Is she saying you don't trust that she would go through with an abortion? Or that you don't trust that she's on BC? I would probably dig into this a little more, but keep using condoms. 

banana468

There's so much here with inserting yourself into someone's relationship, how you behave in your own, but also, I think that they're both deluding themselves if their answer is that how they feel on paper is how they'd feel when faced with a major life decision.    There are people who change their minds in both directions when faced with an unwanted pregnancy and treating those reactions as black and white vs. human is with a pretty self righteous lens. 

VarunaTT

Even if she is on BC, that can fail, so having a backup method for unwanted pregnancies is simply what's medically recommended.  I'd tell her that men are responsible for 100% of unwanted pregnancies, so you're just doing your fair share of taking responsibility for birth control.

And if she can't handle it, break up.  No matter what all the surrounding situation is that brought this to the forefront, you don't want kids right now and are actively trying to prevent it.  If you can't agree on that, I don't really see how this lasts.

mrsconn23

Jack and Jill's relationship was not a sport and there aren't any 'teams' here.  It sounds like a truly stressful situation that ended badly on several fronts.  The fact that y'all invested to much emotional capital makes me think you ALL are very young.  

The first step is to stop using whatever went down between Jack and Jill as a proxy fight and y'all being their surrogates.  Secondly, if you are concerned about an accident and this has brought into focus that you're not ready now to have a kid (very mature), then you need to have a conversation with your GF about contraception and prevention.  But do NOT center Jack and Jill and that mess in the conversation.  

short+sassy

I was irrationally angry that the LW used the pseudonym "Jane", instead of "Jill".

But then I felt better when you all didn't catch it and properly used the obvious choice of "Jill", when the pseudonym for the guy is "Jack", lol.

Back to the question.  I'm assuming the g/f is mad because he doesn't trust that she could change her mind also, if she got pregnant.  I'm really rolling my eyes at both of them.  They both need to get a clue that when something unexpected happens, it's possible for a person's actions/feelings to be different from what they would have expected.

I'm sure Jill 100% thought she would want an abortion if she got pregnant.  But when it happened, she felt very differently about it.  It doesn't make her a bad person or a liar and the LW is being an AH to be "100% on Jack's side".  Though it does sound like Jill behaved poorly after the miscarriage, even all things considered.

But the g/f needs to think about how they just saw a solid relationship blow up over a pregnancy and cut the LW some slack that he wants to take extra precautions.  It's not about trusting/not trusting her.   

banana468

short+sassy said:

I was irrationally angry that the LW used the pseudonym "Jane", instead of "Jill".

But then I felt better when you all didn't catch it and properly used the obvious choice of "Jill", when the pseudonym for the guy is "Jack", lol.

Back to the question.  I'm assuming the g/f is mad because he doesn't trust that she could change her mind also, if she got pregnant.  I'm really rolling my eyes at both of them.  They both need to get a clue that when something unexpected happens, it's possible for a person's actions/feelings to be different from what they would have expected.

I'm sure Jill 100% thought she would want an abortion if she got pregnant.  But when it happened, she felt very differently about it.  It doesn't make her a bad person or a liar and the LW is being an AH to be "100% on Jack's side".  Though it does sound like Jill behaved poorly after the miscarriage, even all things considered.

But the g/f needs to think about how they just saw a solid relationship blow up over a pregnancy and cut the LW some slack that he wants to take extra precautions.  It's not about trusting/not trusting her.   

Right.  The reality is that there's no perfect way for two fertile people to prevent pregnancy and still have sex at the same time.  Lots of things work for a lot of people who have had perfect results but your mileage may vary at your own personal level.   I've seen moms talk about being pregnant with an IUD inserted, finding out that the H's vasectomy didn't take or that they were taking hormonal birth control at the right time and that failed.  

Dude is being clear that he really doesn't want to be a dad now so he's started to add a layer of prevention AND he's taking the responsibility for that himself.  GF needs to check herself that while he's a bit arrogant he's actually taking an approach that this is dual responsibility. 

mrsconn23

banana468 said:

short+sassy said:

I was irrationally angry that the LW used the pseudonym "Jane", instead of "Jill".

But then I felt better when you all didn't catch it and properly used the obvious choice of "Jill", when the pseudonym for the guy is "Jack", lol.

Back to the question.  I'm assuming the g/f is mad because he doesn't trust that she could change her mind also, if she got pregnant.  I'm really rolling my eyes at both of them.  They both need to get a clue that when something unexpected happens, it's possible for a person's actions/feelings to be different from what they would have expected.

I'm sure Jill 100% thought she would want an abortion if she got pregnant.  But when it happened, she felt very differently about it.  It doesn't make her a bad person or a liar and the LW is being an AH to be "100% on Jack's side".  Though it does sound like Jill behaved poorly after the miscarriage, even all things considered.

But the g/f needs to think about how they just saw a solid relationship blow up over a pregnancy and cut the LW some slack that he wants to take extra precautions.  It's not about trusting/not trusting her.   

Right.  The reality is that there's no perfect way for two fertile people to prevent pregnancy and still have sex at the same time.  Lots of things work for a lot of people who have had perfect results but your mileage may vary at your own personal level.   I've seen moms talk about being pregnant with an IUD inserted, finding out that the H's vasectomy didn't take or that they were taking hormonal birth control at the right time and that failed.  

Dude is being clear that he really doesn't want to be a dad now so he's started to add a layer of prevention AND he's taking the responsibility for that himself.  GF needs to check herself that while he's a bit arrogant he's actually taking an approach that this is dual responsibility. 

I agree, but if you start moving in a different way and don't communicate that to your partner, then I think it can throw things off-kilter for them.  Also, because of this specific situation, it's almost like you cannot overcommunicate enough. 

Because he's on Jack's 'side' and she's on Jill's, both outwardly to each other and enough to cause LW and GF to disagree/argue, that all of a sudden it can look and feel like a lack of trust even though it's not the intention.  LW should be like, "This situation freaked me out and I don't want it to be us so I started thinking we should be more careful. Do you agree?  If you don't like condoms, what other options should we look into?" 

Casadena

mrsconn23 said:

banana468 said:

short+sassy said:

I was irrationally angry that the LW used the pseudonym "Jane", instead of "Jill".

But then I felt better when you all didn't catch it and properly used the obvious choice of "Jill", when the pseudonym for the guy is "Jack", lol.

Back to the question.  I'm assuming the g/f is mad because he doesn't trust that she could change her mind also, if she got pregnant.  I'm really rolling my eyes at both of them.  They both need to get a clue that when something unexpected happens, it's possible for a person's actions/feelings to be different from what they would have expected.

I'm sure Jill 100% thought she would want an abortion if she got pregnant.  But when it happened, she felt very differently about it.  It doesn't make her a bad person or a liar and the LW is being an AH to be "100% on Jack's side".  Though it does sound like Jill behaved poorly after the miscarriage, even all things considered.

But the g/f needs to think about how they just saw a solid relationship blow up over a pregnancy and cut the LW some slack that he wants to take extra precautions.  It's not about trusting/not trusting her.   

Right.  The reality is that there's no perfect way for two fertile people to prevent pregnancy and still have sex at the same time.  Lots of things work for a lot of people who have had perfect results but your mileage may vary at your own personal level.   I've seen moms talk about being pregnant with an IUD inserted, finding out that the H's vasectomy didn't take or that they were taking hormonal birth control at the right time and that failed.  

Dude is being clear that he really doesn't want to be a dad now so he's started to add a layer of prevention AND he's taking the responsibility for that himself.  GF needs to check herself that while he's a bit arrogant he's actually taking an approach that this is dual responsibility. 

I agree, but if you start moving in a different way and don't communicate that to your partner, then I think it can throw things off-kilter for them.  Also, because of this specific situation, it's almost like you cannot overcommunicate enough. 

Because he's on Jack's 'side' and she's on Jill's, both outwardly to each other and enough to cause LW and GF to disagree/argue, that all of a sudden it can look and feel like a lack of trust even though it's not the intention.  LW should be like, "This situation freaked me out and I don't want it to be us so I started thinking we should be more careful. Do you agree?  If you don't like condoms, what other options should we look into?" 

@mrsconn23 I came to say something similar. The abrupt addition of condoms with no direct conversation would totally throw me for a loop and immediately make me feel like i wasn't trusted. So I get the gf there. But with a conversation similar to what mrsconn wrote, it makes a lot of sense. If the gf is resistant or unwilling to consider, then there's definitely a problem. 

banana468

Yup - I totally agree he needs to be very clear in his communication that his choice to add condoms is not a lack of trust in the girlfriend but in the success rate of birth control methods and seeing what that small percentage looks like on their friends.  

charlotte989875

Casadena said:

mrsconn23 said:

banana468 said:

short+sassy said:

I was irrationally angry that the LW used the pseudonym "Jane", instead of "Jill".

But then I felt better when you all didn't catch it and properly used the obvious choice of "Jill", when the pseudonym for the guy is "Jack", lol.

Back to the question.  I'm assuming the g/f is mad because he doesn't trust that she could change her mind also, if she got pregnant.  I'm really rolling my eyes at both of them.  They both need to get a clue that when something unexpected happens, it's possible for a person's actions/feelings to be different from what they would have expected.

I'm sure Jill 100% thought she would want an abortion if she got pregnant.  But when it happened, she felt very differently about it.  It doesn't make her a bad person or a liar and the LW is being an AH to be "100% on Jack's side".  Though it does sound like Jill behaved poorly after the miscarriage, even all things considered.

But the g/f needs to think about how they just saw a solid relationship blow up over a pregnancy and cut the LW some slack that he wants to take extra precautions.  It's not about trusting/not trusting her.   

Right.  The reality is that there's no perfect way for two fertile people to prevent pregnancy and still have sex at the same time.  Lots of things work for a lot of people who have had perfect results but your mileage may vary at your own personal level.   I've seen moms talk about being pregnant with an IUD inserted, finding out that the H's vasectomy didn't take or that they were taking hormonal birth control at the right time and that failed.  

Dude is being clear that he really doesn't want to be a dad now so he's started to add a layer of prevention AND he's taking the responsibility for that himself.  GF needs to check herself that while he's a bit arrogant he's actually taking an approach that this is dual responsibility. 

I agree, but if you start moving in a different way and don't communicate that to your partner, then I think it can throw things off-kilter for them.  Also, because of this specific situation, it's almost like you cannot overcommunicate enough. 

Because he's on Jack's 'side' and she's on Jill's, both outwardly to each other and enough to cause LW and GF to disagree/argue, that all of a sudden it can look and feel like a lack of trust even though it's not the intention.  LW should be like, "This situation freaked me out and I don't want it to be us so I started thinking we should be more careful. Do you agree?  If you don't like condoms, what other options should we look into?" 

@mrsconn23 I came to say something similar. The abrupt addition of condoms with no direct conversation would totally throw me for a loop and immediately make me feel like i wasn't trusted. So I get the gf there. But with a conversation similar to what mrsconn wrote, it makes a lot of sense. If the gf is resistant or unwilling to consider, then there's definitely a problem. 

Exactly what I was going to say. Unilaterally changing BC options can throw people, couple that with what he’s implying (that Jill’s initial feelings on what she would do in an unplanned pregnancy was her not being truthful) I can see why the GF is a little freaked out and maybe feels like he doesn’t trust what she is saying. 

He’s not wrong for wanting extra protection but not including the GF in that conversation is. Taking Jack and Jane out of this and the LW and GF have their own issues.