You're doing all of this for a friend? Why?

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

My husband and I’s best friend is now a DEEPLY alcoholic NEET bouncing from place to place while we financially fund him to keep a roof over his head. This arrangement continually blows up in our faces—he’s gotten kicked out of a generous offer from my father-in-law because he trashed the place, he’s being denied other housing now due to his past actions, and we have him safe with a brother-in-law for now since he has no one/nowhere else to go (his family connections are blown up as well). He is states away and refuses to room with us. He tends to spend some of the rent money on alcohol and frequently closes us out of his life. 

We would like visibility into his job search, we want him to go to AA (he stopped after two weeks because it was “too religious” and rejected the non-religious alternatives), and we want him to be able to thrive—but we aren’t his parents, and we don’t have the jurisdiction to demand these things (asking with “I” statements didn’t work). We gave him notice that we’ll cover the next three months of rent/food and then stop in hopes he can find his footing on a generous time limit… but now he’s angry at us. We are trying so hard to have compassion for him and struggling to get him the resources he needs, but when we hand them over, he tends to drop the ball and then spit misery and vitriol at us. For example, he consented to letting me help him find jobs to apply to and after I spent a week finding 100-plus eligible jobs tailor-fit to his resume, he applied to three and gave up, citing the job market is too hard and nothing matters. I gave him an easy lay-up recommendation for a job at the company I work for and he was “too nervous” and never applied.

We have begged for (and been willing to pay for!) therapy, rehab, medication—anything that can help him feel stable and sane. He rejects all of it and then sinks lower. He’s wrapped deeply in our friend group, so if we wrote him off, we would still hear from him and be in the same virtual room with him every day! I know this is selfish, but I feel miserable watching him sink. I don’t know how to help anymore and my compassion is starting to hiccup now that he’s moved to actively rejecting any help we try to give (or wasting the money we give—we aren’t rich). How can we help? Should we extricate ourselves? Should I contact someone on his behalf? Normally I would live and let live, but he is no longer functioning (dead mice in the house! Maggots! Not eating for days in order to buy more vodka!) and I’m genuinely scared for his health and safety.

—We Love You, Please Stop

charlotte989875

It’s time to stop. You can’t make him stop, you can’t force him to get treatment, and you’re killing yourselves (and eventually, possibly your marriage and family relationships) by trying. 

Be done. Be there if he ever truly reaches out but he’s using you and you’re letting him. 

levioosa

Time to go to NAMI and Al-Anon. This is out of your scope and out of your ability to help. It's horribly sad, but you can't let him take you and your marriage down with you. 

mrsconn23

Maybe this makes me an asshole, but I do not understand people like this.  My heart (and wallet) cannot bleed over and over for someone who refuses to help themselves and is ACTIVELY telling you they're not interested in doing so.  I've seen people in my life like this and I just cannot have that much empathy or be that much of a mark or whatever. 

Also, my bottom line, be it time or money, is always at the forefront.  If someone else will impact my time or my money, it is always weighed against the toll or the benefit it will have on my household. 

The most important relationship in my life is my marriage.  My life does not work unless that is solid.  If you're consumed with someone in this way, you're losing sight of the ball that is your marriage.  

Al-Anon and boundaries.  And counseling to figure out why you both have jumped into the deep-end for this person to much detriment to yourselves, your time, money, and other relationships.  Why are you placing such a high value on this person when they don't even value themselves? 

short+sassy

Trying to help someone who has no motivation to help himself is a fruitless cause.  I don't understand why they have thrown all this money and effort to their friend for years.  I can understand the part about they don't want to see him homeless or dead, but this isn't their responsibility.

But one thing in the letter that's really bothering me is it sounds like they are sending him the money for his living expenses directly to him?!?!  Is this a fake letter or are these people really that stupid?  They can pay his rent directly to the landlord, so he doesn't use it to buy vodka.  They can pay his utilities directly also.

And why in the world are they sending him money for food?  He has no income, so he qualifies for food stamps.  Boom.  Done.  Free food.  So why are they paying for it?  Especially since they know a lot of that food money is going for alcohol anyway.  Because here's the other awesome thing about a WIC card.  You can't buy alcohol with it.  He would HAVE to get food, which is something they're worried about anyway.  So wwwhhhhhyyyyy are they handling his food needs in such an incredibly stupid way.  Ugh!  I can't with these people.  

VarunaTT

Ah, no.  One of the things any sobriety group tells you is that it will never work until you are doing it for yourself.  Trying to do it to please/save family, friends, jobs, etc., will never work.  You can't force anyone to stop anything they don't want to.

I've watched friends go down this hole before.  I had already stopped helping on friend when he told me about passing out and sleeping in the bushes because he was homeless.  I know he told me because he wanted me to step in and save him.  I had already told him I wasn't doing it anymore.  I kept my word and just listened, said how horrible it was, and offered nothing else because I had nothing else to offer.

Just cut him off.  Yes, it's going to hurt and feel terrible.  I'd reach out to the friends group and say, "Hey, we're going to have to cut X off.  If you have any questions for me, please let me know."  Create some boundaries around your interactions with him and if these people and he won't recognize it, they all go.  This person is no longer your BFF, they are someone caught in the throes of an addictive substance and responding accordingly.

levioosa

mrsconn23 said:

Maybe this makes me an asshole, but I do not understand people like this.  My heart (and wallet) cannot bleed over and over for someone who refuses to help themselves and is ACTIVELY telling you they're not interested in doing so.  I've seen people in my life like this and I just cannot have that much empathy or be that much of a mark or whatever. 

Also, my bottom line, be it time or money, is always at the forefront.  If someone else will impact my time or my money, it is always weighed against the toll or the benefit it will have on my household. 

The most important relationship in my life is my marriage.  My life does not work unless that is solid.  If you're consumed with someone in this way, you're losing sight of the ball that is your marriage.  

Al-Anon and boundaries.  And counseling to figure out why you both have jumped into the deep-end for this person to much detriment to yourselves, your time, money, and other relationships.  Why are you placing such a high value on this person when they don't even value themselves? 

I get it must feel way different to have a child going through this vs a friend or stranger, but honestly I feel the same way about how my parents handle my brother. When you go to their house the entire property just feels mentally ill. Everyone is miserable, my brother is an incredibly destructive force, and the same patterns repeat over and over again. H is terrified that when they pass my brother (if still alive/not in prison) will become our problem. I think that while the concern is there, it's not as intense because my brother knows I have absolutely zero problem enforcing boundaries, calling the police, and telling him to get out. There is no world in which he moves in, or in which I let him live in a tent on our property. It's infuriating, devastating, and draining, but I am not going to hold my life captive to someone who has been provided with opportunity after opportunity. He needs help, but he has to be willing to make the changes and he historically hasn't done that. 

And same, H and I have a super great, stable relationship. That is my priority. Not managing other people's lives or their issues. 

ETA: words

mrsconn23

levioosa said:

mrsconn23 said:

Maybe this makes me an asshole, but I do not understand people like this.  My heart (and wallet) cannot bleed over and over for someone who refuses to help themselves and is ACTIVELY telling you they're not interested in doing so.  I've seen people in my life like this and I just cannot have that much empathy or be that much of a mark or whatever. 

Also, my bottom line, be it time or money, is always at the forefront.  If someone else will impact my time or my money, it is always weighed against the toll or the benefit it will have on my household. 

The most important relationship in my life is my marriage.  My life does not work unless that is solid.  If you're consumed with someone in this way, you're losing sight of the ball that is your marriage.  

Al-Anon and boundaries.  And counseling to figure out why you both have jumped into the deep-end for this person to much detriment to yourselves, your time, money, and other relationships.  Why are you placing such a high value on this person when they don't even value themselves? 

I get it must feel way different to have a child going through this vs a friend or stranger, but honestly I feel the same way about how my parents handle my brother. When you go to their house the entire property just feels mentally ill. Everyone is miserable, my brother is an incredibly destructive force, and the same patterns repeat over and over again. H is terrified that when they pass my brother (if still alive/not in prison) will become our problem. I think that while the concern is there, it's not as intense because my brother knows I have absolutely zero problem enforcing boundaries, calling the police, and telling him to get out. There is no world in which he moves in, or in which I let him live in a tent on our property. It's infuriating, devastating, and draining, but I am not going to hold my life captive to someone who has been provided with opportunity after opportunity. He needs help, but he has to be willing to make the changes and he historically hasn't done that. 

And same, H and I have a super great, stable relationship. That is my priority. Not managing other people's lives or their issues. 

ETA: words

We got the quote from the lawyer yesterday regarding his retainer (for the paternity and what potentially comes after).  I had a bit of a meltdown and DH also was having a hard time choking the info down even though we're likely to pay it.  So yes, it is quite different when it is your kid. 

But even then, a lot of our conversation yesterday was around boundaries where ours are at and how we are going to lay them out to the kiddo.  DH and I are reaching the end of the line for awhile when it comes to the kiddo and financial support.  *sigh* 

But this is why I do not do drama with friends.  I want no part of someone who add to my mental load, much less my bottom line. 

short+sassy

@mrsconn23, I'm sorry it was some bad news for you all yesterday!  I hope this process ends up at least being on the smoother side.

levioosa

Ugh, I'm so sorry @mrsconn23. I think there is such a fine line when it's your kid, especially when they're still a dumbass young adult. But it sounds like you have had discussions about boundaries and you're solid on enforcing them, which is the big difference. Kiddo has been given a boon with you guys, so hopefully he is able to move quickly beyond the youthful dumbass stage and figure his shit out. 

MesmrEwe

LW - Time to remove the Enabling Doormat Shirt!!!  Al-Anon time because the friend has to be allowed to hit rock bottom as many times as it takes to get sober and become functioning again.  He hated Rehab, AA, and the "non-religious alternatives" because he was confronted with uncomfortable truths from the people there and to take responsibility for his own story.