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Wedding Woes

Don't fully understand the question here

How do I manage conversations and upcoming celebrations (bachelorette parties, wedding festivities, five and 10-year reunions, etc.) with college friends who are on the more extreme end of our (shared) political leanings? We are all five to eight years out from graduating from a tiny, ultra-expensive liberal arts college in California, which both shaped our current views and provides some insight into the privilege that most (but not all) of us had to afford that kind of education at all. Under the current administration, it’s also totally understandable for us to vent about our fears (most of us are in STEM) and sorrow for the things happening in our lives, in the news, etc.

However, I’ve been feeling like the odd woman out at some of these recent get-togethers. I seriously struggled in my first Ph.D. program at a top-rated university in a big city and “mastered out” during the pandemic. Thankfully, I found a program that was a better fit at a big state school in a more rural area. I love living in my new state and am committed to starting a career and putting down roots here. But I think my experiences living in a mostly white (and in many other ways vastly less privileged) community have changed me.

I was surprised and alarmed at the way my friends talk about certain topics: “all men suck,” “straight white people are the problem,” etc. (we are all women, mostly BIPOC, queer and allies). Some of this may be explained by 1) legitimate frustration with life in current times, and 2) finally having some girl talk after years without seeing each other. But yikes. I felt like I couldn’t speak up or even mention my (white, straight, male) partner because the tides of conversation were flowing so strongly in the other direction. At the same time, I thought (and was immediately ashamed to think), “Wow, is this what MAGA types dismiss as woke?” And of course, everyone’s rhetoric seemed to be immediately validated as we went out for drinks and dancing, and two of our party were grabbed and groped by—you guessed it—white, male strangers. I feel caught between supporting the (legitimate) concerns of the people (including myself, a woman of color, daughter of immigrants, and scientist) at risk under this administration, and the (problematic? Bigoted? Unhelpful?) urge to say, “Our rich person privilege is showing” and/or, “Poor white people are also people, and I’ve even talked to some of them.”

Do I need a script to ease the intensity of some of these conversations? Steer us toward less fraught topics? Just nod and smile? Invitations for various celebrations of this college friend group will continue rolling in, and I am genuinely excited to catch up with everyone. However, I will absolutely be bringing White Straight Male Partner as my plus one when applicable, who had a completely different childhood and college experience compared to the rest of us, and already has a pretty dim view of the kind of conversations he might be drawn into as the only white man at the table. While he could definitely stand to be more actively feminist and anti-racist in our everyday lives, getting grilled over a fancy meal by a bunch of PhDs whose parents funded their education would not be the way. Because nowadays it DOES matter, I should clarify that he is not a Trump supporter, does not support or condone hateful beliefs, and will not accidentally nor purposefully insult anyone at these gatherings based on race, culture, or gender identity.

Re: Don't fully understand the question here

  • levioosalevioosa member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Hey LW, if your response to BiPOC’s lived experiences is “poor white people exist too!” Then you are part of the problem. Of course white people get impacted by the same socioeconomic bullshit but the point is it affects marginalized communities MORE. Calm down. 


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  • There are few things I can't stand more than when people use broadly encompassing words like "all", "never", "every or everybody", "nobody" when talking about large groups of people, especially because it's usually in a derogatory way.

    It's close-minded and fosters hate, at a time when the world needs so much less of that.

    I used to be more vocal about that, but I'm too tired of screaming into a void.  Maybe it's just me getting older, but I'd swear there are more close-minded people like that nowadays.  Including sometimes arguing about objective facts.  I cannot pull someone even a little bit out of the limited world they created for themselves if they are adamant to stay there, so I've stopped wasting my time and feeling sad there are too many people like this.  At least overall.  Sometimes I can't help myself.

    In a setting like the LW described, I might say something light and general for the most egregious comments...if they're serious comments...and then just drop it.

    I feel like saying "all men suck" is usually joking and said more in commiseration of a friend's break-up with a man or an eye-rolling encounter at work or wherever and a guy is being a jerk.  But if it is said with earnest and vehemence, I'll point out, "Well, they are the 50% of the world's population so they can't all be bad.  I personally think most people are good people and yes I'm even including men with that (a little laugh)."
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Yeah - I roll my eyes at the unproductive nature of any conversation that totally generalizes.

    But if you can't see that the current policies are horrible for everyone but worse for those who weren't in a good place to start AND if you were voting for him then you didn't help the matter.

    My straight white husband who grew up in one of the most affluent towns in the US can grasp this same concept so don't put your own partner in a box that his upbringing makes him incapable of empathy. 
  • levioosa said:
    Hey LW, if your response to BiPOC’s lived experiences is “poor white people exist too!” Then you are part of the problem. Of course white people get impacted by the same socioeconomic bullshit but the point is it affects marginalized communities MORE. Calm down. 
    This! If your response to "all men suck" is "not all men", you're just being obtuse. 
  • VarunaTTVarunaTT member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    JFC, cishet white men don't need defending or sympathy.  They're still on top of everything and if they're feeling attacked, it's b/c they're worried about having to share the top (like, they're not even being pulled down, they're being asked to prove their mettle and share power).  OP doesn't need to write into Prudie, she needs to check in with some of her friends who are women of color and let them collect her.

    Listen, the "not all men, not all white women, not all dogs" tropes are tiring.  If something doesn't apply to you, i.e. white women do X, just move along and appreciate that you don't do it.  B/c the comment is not about you then.  But it probably is about 85% of other white women and the behaviors have to be pointed out or they'll never change.  It's hard not to get defensive about things like that -- that is a deeply ingrained patriarchal and societal conditioning response of centering your individual self from a group that you are part of that's fvcking up.  However, we are all mostly born with the capacity to think beyond our conditioned responses, so do that.
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