Food for thought

amh04

No not really food... but since it was brought up in an earlier post I wanted your honest feedback:
When/If do you think it (if it's ever) okay to do a JOP and not tell anyone and have a wedding? Etiquette aside - I know then its really called a VR and you should make an annocement - but all that aside - when/if do you think it's okay?

amh04

I used to be very much sided with the 'do it once' idea. Have 1 wedding 1 time (VR are for 20 year + anniversaries)
But after kind of taking some things into consideration I can see where it might become ideal and why couples do it. I know we briefly have discussed it a few times and decided against it. Our reasonings were more or less due to my health insurance issues - I won't get into details. And then the financial aspect of it is huge - the increase in BAH would cover our mortgage completely instead of the dent it puts in it now. I guess I never really took into consideration those things before. I highly doubt we will do it, but its a thought that lingers.

calindi

I don't think it's ever acceptable.  I do understand people sometimes feel it necessary to get married in a hurry for various reasons, and that's fine - that's totally someone's choice.  Everyone has the option to elope or go to the courthouse at any point.  If you guys really super need that extra money or health insurance or whatever, then get married.  Anyone can decide to elope at any point. But I just don't think it's really acceptable to keep your marriage a secret - it doesn't seem like the best way to start off a lifelong commitment, with lying to your closest family and friends.

If someone still wants to throw the big traditional wedding, then that's also totally their choice.  And it's everyone else's choice whether they want to go, whether they want to give gifts, judge the couple's decision to get married, etc. 

I liked the Ask Annie post or whatever a few weeks ago that said it was beyond her why people think "wedding" means "white dress and big party" rather than "the day you get married", and how the priorities over which of those is more important seems a bit skewed.

I was unemployed for 5 months with no health insurance, no unemployment, nothing.  I wracked up over $5000 in credit card debt to keep food in my mouth and gas in my car and the electricity on in my house.  My FI paid the rent as we had to pay it with check, while I paid his half of bills that we could pay with a credit card.  He was AD this summer, so if we had gotten married, I could have had health insurance and enough to cover our rent and utilities for that time period.  I had a big medical scare that could have meant thousands in dollars of bills with the lousy insurance I had, but it just didn't matter.  We do not want to get married that way, and so it was never an option to us. If we decided we should, then we probably would have cancelled the big wedding next year and had a sweet and small ceremony in my parents' backyard with immediate family only.  That would have been our wedding, and I would have been very happy with that.

Beachy730

Honestly, I don't think it's ever okay to do it and not tell anyone.  Also, I have never seen a reason to di it come down to anything that doesn't involve greed.  

Obviously I don't know your personal situations, but both reasons you have listed as saying you would consider it stem from money, which in the end result is greed.  Healthcare is available for everyone, you just have to pay for it.  Also, wanting the extra money for BAH is also just greedy.  (please don't think I'm singling you out or being rude to you in specific.  These are just the 2 main reasons people usually give).  Also, since everyone who does this thinks these reasons are perfectly fine and acceptable, why feel the need to keep the secret from your family and friends?  If you want to JOP for the money, or whatever other reason you are doing it, be a freaking adult and own your decision and be honest with people.  The fact that people hide it and keep it a secret means to me that they are ashamed of what they did.  

Yes, everyone would always rather have extra money available, but when it comes down to it, no amount of money is worth betraying and lying to my family.  The love and respect from my family can't be bought, and even if it could, it would cost a hell of a lot more than an extra couple hundred dollars a month.

Beachy730

I posted before I wanted to, but I also wanted to add an example of why it's a horrible idea.  A guy my brother was good friends with in high school joined the Army.  He was killed while overseas and it was obviously a very sad time for his family.  Imagine their surprise when after they were notified of his death, they were also notified of a wife he had that they never knew about.  He had secretly gotten married so that his wife could have health insurance, and none of his friends or extended family knew about it.  There were many hurt feelings all around, which even led to some choosing not to attend the funeral.  

amh04

I don't think we will ever really go through with it. We talk about it and joke around but we both know we want to do it 'right' and it's important to us to do it properly. I just want to do it once, ya know. Have 1 special day completely about us. Plus the trials/tribulations make you stronger and make your relationship tougher. 
I just kind of wanted to see where everyone else stood on this 'issue' it seems to be really really popular in this 'world'.

amh04

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_food-thought?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:872e1ec0-d222-4ee6-b286-02c26134f0c4Post:da3deab0-515a-4f33-adad-3646976f5bdd">Re: Food for thought</a>:
[QUOTE]I posted before I wanted to, but I also wanted to add an example of why it's a horrible idea.  A guy my brother was good friends with in high school joined the Army.  He was killed while overseas and it was obviously a very sad time for his family.  Imagine their surprise when after they were notified of his death, they were also notified of a wife he had that they never knew about.<strong>  He had secretly gotten married so that his wife could have health insurance, and none of his friends or extended family knew about it.  There were many hurt feelings all around, which even led to some choosing not to attend the funeral.  
</strong>Posted by dnbeach12[/QUOTE]

Oh MY! Thats horrible! I can't imagine having to find that out! It kind of upsets me a bit that its become the 'norm' for military couples. I never really understood that until recently like I stated, but even then.

As far as my health insurance goes, I've always lived paycheck to paycheck and its more or less I really have to twist some things around to pay for the $200+ a month at once (I only need 3 months worth of it, and they want 3 months ahead of time)

calindi

For health insurance, you can get a personal quote for less than that.  I pay $145 per month and get pretty good coverage - I can do standard doctors visits for a $40 co-pay, specialist visits for a $60 co-pay, but I do have a $2500 deductible for any procedures.  It also covers most medicines, and generic medicine is only $15.

I only had to pay one month at a time.

This was the person I spoke to - she does national quotes, so as long as you live in the US, she can help you out:

Katherine Grau
Health Insurance Specialist
National Producer #14761321
www.HealthInsuranceReviews.com
Toll Free: 877-698-6645

I live paycheck to paycheck, too, but it's really not an excuse to not have at least basic health insurance - as soon as you need one medication or need to go see a doctor once, it ends up being the same or more than if you just paid your premium.  And it can prevent total bankruptcy if you have a major medical issue. 

Beachy730

Amh- if your wedding is in March like you bio says, that's only 4 months away, and that is nothing!  Say at max there would be a difference of $3,000 between BAH and healthcare in that time.  To me it comes down to the simple question of is $3,000 really worth lying to everyone you love, and tainting your "dream" wedding day?  

calindi

I get joking about it - we joke about it all the time.  That doesn't mean actually thinking about doing it.

LetsHikeToday

Eh- To me, I don't really care either way.

Would I do it in an extreme situation? Maybe. I haven't been in a situation like that. One of my old friends did this. They got married before their ceremony because she didn't have health insurance. (He is in the Air Force). They then had a ceremony and two months later a reception so I guess she did two things against etiquette.

Did I care? Nope. Would I do it? I don't know?

I just think that if you DO choose to JOP and then have another celebration, then guests should know.

Beachy730

I broke my wrist and needed surgery 6 months before the wedding, and the weekend before I was losing my insurance through the school district.  It was definitely scary thinking about the cost out of pocket, and in a moment of panic H mentioned doing a JOP.  I get it, it definitely seems like the easy thing to do and the solution to problems, but after being in the situation myself and choosing not to go that route, I can happily say I'm glad we didn't.  

I really hope this doesn't have a ton of people coming in saying "you don't know me or my situation," blah blah blah.  I honestly couldn't care less what your situation is that makes you feel the need to do this.  But if you're adult enough to make the decision to get married, be an adult and own your decisions.  

amh04

Yeah it's in March the 3rd so we are exactly 5 months away today. We wouldn't really do it, I don't think. I'm really hoping I can get enough of my thyroid medication to last me that time as long as I can do that in all honesty I think I'll be okay? I have Triare Prime under my father now and that expires Nov 22. Not sure and it really is something I need to look into. It'd actually be less than $3,000 I think. It's only about $300 more a month once we are married. And it isn't worth it.
Thanks for the info Cate I'll have to check them out.
I don't think we'd ever honestly go through with it because having family around is so important and the priest marrying us is pretty important too.

I just kind of wonder why it's so big in the military community, or at least it seems to be.

firsttimersluck

***FLAMEWORTHY***

I know that I am always on the "just wait" or "call it a VR" (<-- which I also find annoying.. VRs are for YEARS of happy successful marriage, not 9 months after a JOP) side of things.. and I am.
BUT, I do think a marriage is for two people and no one else (which is why I feel weddings are unnecessary. I would have been much happier eloping with just the two of us). It's about the couple...
I know that a LOT of you guys are super close to your families... but I'm not. I don't have a close family.. Neither does H. We like being just the two of us and on our own, so our personal decisions are OUR business, not theirs. Does that mean we would run and get a JOP then have a big wedding and call it that? No. But we also paid for our own wedding, so what we choose/chose to do is/was our decision and no one else's. People that have a JOP/PPD that pay for their own PPD I try not to judge because.. It's their money. They can do what they want. It peeves me when it's people using mommy and daddy's money and decide to not tell them it's a "real wedding" not a real wedding. :P

(side note: Some of you may remember that H and I were considering getting married like.. a couple days before the wedding because of issues with the officiant being from out of state and all that jazz. We didn't. We sorted it out so we didn't have to go through that, and would have been more than willing to tell people so not a big deal)

H and I keep a lot to ourselves and like it that way. He is my family and all I need in the world; and I know he feels the same. If both of our families disowned us tomorrow, we would be just fine because we would still have each other. That being said, people that have a JOP and then want to LIE to family/friends about it and still have a PPD are fooling themselves.
If they really only care about each other and what each other thinks they wouldn't...
A. NEED the PPD. I know that if WE had had a JOP I wouldn't have had the energy, patience, and care to plan a "wedding".
or
B. NEED to lie to people because they wouldn't care what others' think.

Of course H and I are also NOT AT ALL religious... So signing that "piece of paper" was our marriage, not the ceremony.

LetsHikeToday

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_food-thought?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:872e1ec0-d222-4ee6-b286-02c26134f0c4Post:8ca5cafb-886b-4cee-8169-ada9af7fe679">Re: Food for thought</a>:
[QUOTE]I broke my wrist and needed surgery 6 months before the wedding, and the weekend before I was losing my insurance through the school district.  It was definitely scary thinking about the cost out of pocket, and in a moment of panic H mentioned doing a JOP.  I get it, it definitely seems like the easy thing to do and the solution to problems, but after being in the situation myself and choosing not to go that route, I can happily say I'm glad we didn't.   I really hope this doesn't have a ton of people coming in saying "you don't know me or my situation," blah blah blah.  I honestly couldn't care less what your situation is that makes you feel the need to do this.  But if you're adult enough to make the decision to get married, be an adult and own your decisions.  
Posted by dnbeach12[/QUOTE]

I guess I feel eh about it because I feel Eh about weddings in general. We had a great day but I would have been 100% happy just doing a JOP. The only reason why we didn't was because it was important to H to have a somewhat traditional ceremony.

So in my opinion, I don't understand the whole "I want my big day...." blah blah blah stuff. Own the JOP and leave it at that.

firsttimersluck

meh... I guess my ramble turned out to not be so flameworthy.. But I'm with Hike. Ultimately, I don't really care. It's not my relationship. my rela is what I care about. Do I side eye people that do it? Yeah, a little.. But that's only after reading the posts on here... Before then I didn't give a crap.
100% Hike. I feel "eh" about weddings in general.. I don't think marriage is a SIGN of a forever-couple, and I don't think a wedding is needed.. Marriage and the wedding were important to H which is why we had them.
I have a hard time understanding the "I want my big day blah blah blah" thing JOP or not haha...
All my girlfriends and sister  before and on my wedding day were like.. Anna.. You have the flu... And being pulled in a hundred different ways.. How are you not freaking out and yelling at everyone right now?!!
bleh. because I don't really care. Ultimately we will sign the paper that says we are one, and everything leading up to that doesn't matter. Things can go horribly wrong in LIFE, so why would I freak over something little like flowers?  :P

Beachy730

I wouldn't change our wedding for anything, but I'm pretty sure if it came down to us having to do a JOP, we would have left it at that.  It's hard to know for sure though until you're in that situation.  H would have loved to just do a JOP, but we were the first grandcihldren in both of our families to get married, and with my huge family a small wedding just wasn't happening.  

I hate how common this is in the military though, and really, really wish they would stop making it seem so appealing to young couples.  Lower ranking couples especially see it as appealling if they can't collect BAH and live off base without being married.  I really with that the military would require couples to go through pre-marital counseling and/or classes, or do some other type of requirements to make it more difficult for people to get married, or to collect the benefits of being married.

amh04

I always was jealous of those who eloped, I wanted to. Still threat it. But now that I have that excitement bug I couldn't do it. I just sort of wanted to see where you laides stood on it and what y'alls thoughts were. Thanks for sharing!

calindi

5 months! Yayyyy!!!  Mine's 11 months from this past Saturday.  It's feeling real, huh?

About the medication, definitely look into the company I suggested.  Also, can you do mail ordering for 3 months?  I know my old insurance would let me do that.  That might get you closer to march so you'd have to buy fewer months out of pocket.

Also, ask your doctor if he'll write the prescription for more pills per month.  If I remember correctly, some people need a higher dosage of Synthroid (which I imagine you're on?) so he could justify "two pills per day" when what you really need is one pill per day.  It's a bit of a gray zone ethically, but I know my doctor did that for allergy medication for me at one point.

amh04

I think walgreens can give me a 90 day supply. so if I go and get a 90 day in a month and then another 90 day in november with a new perscription I should be okay. And way to go! Synthryoid is correct - I'm actually on that which is T4 and I'm on T3 as well

amh04

And it's getting very real! and so so exciting! I finally have that feeling back that I had when we got engaged I'm on happy gal!

kmmssg

My POV is coming from a 3 time MOB and a Soldier.  There is never a reason to get married and keep it a secret from your family.  I can't imagine how the family of the Soldier who was killed and had a secret wife must have felt.  I'd be devastated to lose my son and devastated that he kept such an important life event from me.

If you JOP and have a "wedding" later, I really don't give a rip.  As long as it isn't a sham marriage so the Soldier can collect BAH fraudently or a green card issue, I really don't care....as long as it isn't a secret.

I do care if the showers and bach parties pop up - that isn't right to me.  I have seen dozens of couples in my 26 years who have changed their wedding plans for an unexpected deployment.  A few JOP'd before the deployment and continued to plan their weddings for when the deployment was over.  I've been to 4 of those.  No showers, no bach parties, but everything else looked as a wedding would.  It was an awesome time to get together and celebrate my buddy's safe return.  If I've attended any weddings where they secretly JOP'd I don't know about those!

Most couples I know who have to make this decision end up just JOP'ing.  I think that is great.  Hopefully the money they saved gave them an awesome honeymoon.

Way back when some of you were in diapers or pre-school I was tasked to help a unit prep for Desert Storm.  They had a 3 week notice they were leaving.  I attended 7 weddings in one week right on the drill floor.  The Magistrate and her staff bent over backwards for all of them regardless of the time of day.

My favorite wedding from that time is when one of the Soldier's called his fiance and told her he needed her to come over to the Armory.  She showed up in jeans/flannel shirt/bandana on her hair because she had been cleaning all day.  He had the magistrate there and asked her to marry him then rather than when he got back.  I have never seen a sweeter wedding.  She was stunned and self conscious of her appearance but they exchanged their vows and we were all crying at how sweet it wasl.  Sorry for the ramble but that is my favorite wedding story.

I stay completely out of these threads over on the Etiquette boards because they become a rabid feeding frenzy and I don't think it is necessary.  If someone is straight up with me about this I really don't care what they do.  If someone is keeping it a secret because "people won't think it is important or special", I have a serious issue there.

If one of my DD's got married secretly I can't imagine how I would feel.  We are very close and to say I would be devastated would be an understatement.

OK, old lady ramble is over. 

divinemsbee

Funnily enough, back when I was still lurking here, and before an "official" proposal, my FI and also our best friend both suggested levels of JOPing it and then having a wedding. I actually thought about it, but then I though about how I would feel to not have my Dad and Mom there, and how on earth I'd find a priest to do it and just couldn't justify it. And the "plans" that they talked about included telling everyone anyway. After reading all the ops here (I was a lurker during the massive Kendall/Katelyn debacle) I came to realize that it's just not worth it to me.

To me, a lot of it is the same as if we went to Vegas, but still wanted to get married in the Church. Say we go to Vegas simply because it's more fun and less work, but then the only reason I could give a priest for not getting married in the Church the first time is, well, that. I still think about eloping just to not deal with it, but getting married in the Church is important to me, so I'd have to find a priest who was willing to marry us at a daily Mass or extremely privately.

Also, I kind of hate that this has become so ingrained in parts of military culture that it's seen as acceptable by the world at large for military brides to do it. I see it all the time in advice columns (something like, "You can't do that, but I would make an exception for the military"). I don't feel like marrying someone who does a specific job should make you immune to the rules. i.e. you much more rarely see someone saying "I want to JOP it and have a PPD because my FI is a computer programmer."

 It's also seen as kind of an excuse. There was a girl on the ceremony board a while back looking for a priest that would give them a big PPD even though they were already married. People talked about convalidations and I facetiously mentioned that she could use the "deployment excuse" with her priest, highlighing with the rest of my comment how ridiculous that is. And, of course, she took me seriously.

SamiJoeB

Right after H got orders to Japan, we considered it.  For like a minute! And only for the reason that we'd be together sooner.  (His command would have found a place for me and I would have gone over there) In the long run though I was like.. Umm.. No thank you, I would much rather have my family there.  We wouldn't have lied about it, we would have just called up our parents and been like "Hope you're sitting down!"

I'm just think that there is no real validation for JOP'd and lying about it.  I've never heard an excuse (let's face it, that's what they are) for doing it, that was really valid.

SamiJoeB

AMH- I think I got a letter recently from walgreens saying that they wouldn't be accepting Tricare anymore (I have Tricare Prime also).  I think I threw it away, so I'm not sure when it started.  Hopefully at the end of the year, but it could be the end of the fiscal year, which would have been last week right? Idk.. Just a heads up though!!

sofiabrian

I have never commented on this topic on the board (just lurked); for many reasons. The main one: I personally don't care either way. I've been to two ceremonies in which the couples had previous been married.

The first, I was aware that they had married so she could be on her husband's orders when he PCSed. I didn't think anything of it. When I asked another guest if there was a registry she told me no, since they had been married over a year ago. 

The second situation EVERYONE was completely in the dark that the couple had been married two months prior. (Theirs was for another PCS reason) The couple is really good friends of ours. And when the news came out, I was like, "oh, okay!" It didn't bother me one bit. If anything we (bride, groom, etc) laughed about it. I don't think any different about the couple, their marriage or their future together.

A JOP marriage was something that my husband and I had never considered. I think every couple is unique, just as if every wedding is unique. I'm just very indifferent about JOP/VR. 

Beachy730

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_food-thought?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:872e1ec0-d222-4ee6-b286-02c26134f0c4Post:4c4a9903-16e0-45c6-8b17-11544a64b98a">Re: Food for thought</a>:
[QUOTE]AMH- I think I got a letter recently from walgreens saying that they wouldn't be accepting Tricare anymore (I have Tricare Prime also).  I think I threw it away, so I'm not sure when it started.  Hopefully at the end of the year, but it could be the end of the fiscal year, which would have been last week right? Idk.. Just a heads up though!!
Posted by SamiJoeB[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>It's not supposed to start until Jan or Feb, but it might not even happen.  They threatened it a few years ago too but renewed a contract.  

</div>

firsttimersluck

aww sofia where the heck have you been? I feel like I haven't seen your name pop up in quite some time!

sofiabrian

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_food-thought?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:872e1ec0-d222-4ee6-b286-02c26134f0c4Post:46816bbb-eba5-4d6c-93c1-e1da85234ad9">Re: Food for thought</a>:
[QUOTE]aww sofia where the heck have you been? I feel like I haven't seen your name pop up in quite some time!
Posted by firsttimersluck[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I've been here and there.... mainly there :)</div><div>
</div><div>Had a busy few weeks: honeymoon, started new job, hubby's playing in the "sand" 8 hours away, and of course trying to keep busy! </div><div>
</div><div>I saw the pictures of your wedding and AMAZING!! If a GTG in Seattle happens over my winter break, I might try to make it! </div><div>
</div>

firsttimersluck

Oh yay! You totally should!!  Are you a Seahawks (or football in general) fan?
Thank you I like them, but I'm bias

Sounds like you have been busy! How was the Hm?

sofiabrian

I enjoy football, but I'm huge baseball fan! And I root for the home team: Seahawks, Mariners

HM was lovely! Went to Asheville NC, Montreal, was stranded in Vermont during Hurricane Irene, but finally made it to a cute B&B in New Hampshire! 

Can't wait for next spring, we are thinking of doing Costa Rica, when he gets back!!!!

Off to bed, it's 11:30pm EST.