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He won't talk about it.

My boyfriend and I are talking about moving in together, getting visas, leaving the country, getting an apartment and jobs in Europe, etc.  But no matter what we talk about in regards to these things, he WILL NOT talk about getting married.  Obviously he wants to be with me for a good while, since he's planning all of this moving in together, etc.  I don't try to force him to talk about marriage, but whenever there is a small opportunity to bring it up, he REFUSES to participate in talking about it.
Now, the best I got out of him was this; I gathered the reason he won't talk about it (according to him) is because "when a man asks a woman to marry him, it should be a COMPLETE surprise".  Okay, I agree with this to some extent.  I would definitely want the proposal to be a surprise.  However... shouldn't the couple at least be on the same PAGE as far as marriage?  I don't want to wait around for years and years and years (although I guess I will anyhow, because I love him and all). 
I'm not saying I want to get married within the next year - I can wait, really.  I would even be okay with a long engagement. 
But how can I tell him that I'm frustrated with the fact that he refuses to talk about our future together?  Ugh!!  Anybody else having this problem?

[Sorry for the rant, but this has really been frosting my cookies lately!!]
xM

Re: He won't talk about it.

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    bethsmilesbethsmiles member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited May 2012
    A couple definitely should be on the same page about what each person expects out of the relationship.  I think you need to tell him that while you respect that he wants to do the proposal a certain way and that he wants it to be a surprise you aren't comfortable with not knowing that the two of you are on the same page.

    You can have a discussion about timelines without ruining the surprise of the proposal. Talk about what each of you want both as individuals and as a couple in the next 1, 5, and 10 years. My boyfriend have talked about this (and a lot more) and I still don't know exactly when the proposal is coming (although I have my suspicions) and it will still be a surprise.

    ETA: I have a follow question - Have you been trying to talk to him about a marriage or a wedding because there is a HUGE difference.


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    Beth gives good advice. Just let him know you would at least like to know if he wants to marry you. There's no point moving to another country with a guy if he isn't even thinking about marriage. I would be pissed if FI said hey, let's move across the globe and live together, but eh, idk if I want to get married ever. Just reasonably tell him why it's bothering you. You have every right to express your frustrations to him, in a calm, non accusatory, crazy pants way of course. Good luck and let us know what happens!
    --------------------------------------------------------------


     
    "You're our early 20's BSC scarecrow. They cower at your maturity." - lennonkdc Anniversary
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    Seriously, here's my advice about how to talk to him:

    "Boyfriend, I'm getting very frustrated with the fact that you refuse to talk about our future together.  I know you believe that proposals should be a surprise, but that doesn't mean that we can't talk about what our goals are, long-term, for this relationship.  I'm not asking you to propose right now, and I'm not saying I want an up-to-the-hour heads-up on where you are in the proposal process.  But I'm not going to uproot my life and move to another country with someone who refuses to give me any assurances about the future so that we can make sure our goals are aligned."

    Please don't move in with a man who refuses to talk about his goals for your relationship in the future.  If you're not on the same page as far as marriage, children, a general timeline for when you want to get married, etc., you're headed straight towards an incredibly messy breakup, and ending a cohabitation is in many ways even harder than ending a marriage, because there are absolutely no legal or financial protections for you.  If you insist on doing it, please consider talking to a lawyer and signing a cohabitation agreement that may give you some protection.

    I'm actually kind of worried by how you said you'd stay with him for years and years even if he's unwilling to ever get married just because you love him.  Love is not EVER enough to make a relationship work- it's a necessary but not sufficient condition.  If you both want completely different things out of your relationship and out of life, you cannot have a happy marriage (or LTR) just because you love each other, because one or both of you will always be unhappy with your life apart from the relationship. 

    Frankly, the stuff about a proposal being a "complete" surprise is BS.  What he seems to be describing is that a proposal is only a complete surprise if you're actively expecting him NOT to propose and then he does.  That's ridiculous, frankly.  My proposal was still a complete surprise, but I had moved in with my then-boyfriend only after we were both 100% sure we were both onboard with getting married on roughly the same timeline.
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    I disagree with calliopeia.  While it may be disconcerting to not know if you're on the same page (and I definitely advocate TALKING to boyfriend and explaining that you just want to make sure you are on the same page...), love can totally be enough glue to hold a relationship together.

    Just ask the gay couple in NC.  Yep, I went there.
    I guess, to tell you the truth, I've never had much of a desire to grow facial hair. I think I've managed to play quarterback just fine without a mustache. - Peyton
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    In Response to Re:He won't talk about it.:[QUOTE]I disagree with calliopeia.nbsp; While it may be disconcerting to not know if you're on the same page and I definitely advocate TALKING to boyfriend and explaining that you just want to make sure you are on the same page..., love can totally be enough glue to hold a relationship together.Just ask the gay couple in NC.nbsp; Yep, I went there. Posted by Blue White[/QUOTE]

    This.

    I've been with my bf for two years, and marriage could be a long ways off, and I'm okay with that, because love is a big factor. We know where the other one stands, and that is something you need to address with him.

    I wouldn't be moving countries without having a serious discussion with him.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_he-wont-talk-about-it?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:0fe675ef-88e0-4228-b1cb-97a7abdceb0aPost:22fe50a0-c344-43f9-9e8e-8919536b69e7">Re: He won't talk about it.</a>:
    [QUOTE]I disagree with calliopeia.  While it may be disconcerting to not know if you're on the same page (and I definitely advocate TALKING to boyfriend and explaining that you just want to make sure you are on the same page...), love can totally be enough glue to hold a relationship together. Just ask the gay couple in NC.  Yep, I went there.
    Posted by Blue & White[/QUOTE]

    I'm going to jump off a cliff here...please feel free to follow.

    The gay couple in NC may not have any legal commitment, but they've made a commitment to each other.  Perhaps it's part of a mortgage, or a puppy, or who knows what else.  The other difference is that while the gay couple can't get legally married, they are still on the same page of their relationship.  The same as Irish and her BF.  They've discussed it.

    I was with my ex for 3 years.  And love was not enough because we weren't on the same page about anything.  There wasn't any trying to make it work after a certain point because despite the fact that we loved each other, we couldn't come to a good compromise.  Make sense?
    I french with my man
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    csousa1csousa1 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Love is NOT enough, all on its own, without effort and communication.

    Let me show you.

    "His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him."

    Here, love is enough.


    "He doesn't want to work anymore, and our bills are piling up. I can't support us on my own. But it's okay with me if he never gets off the couch, because we love each other."

    Here, love is NOT enough.


    Every one of the healthy, successful relationships here are thus because they involve love as a main ingredient, along with hard work, commitment and communication. This is true regardless of the status of the relationship. Love is integral, but not enough in and of itself to make a relationship work, because the real world is not a fairy tale.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_he-wont-talk-about-it?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:0fe675ef-88e0-4228-b1cb-97a7abdceb0aPost:f5f274f5-6d03-4034-9077-926d72057e2e">Re: He won't talk about it.</a>:
    [QUOTE]Love is NOT enough, all on its own, without effort and communication. Let me show you. <strong>"His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him."</strong> Here, love is enough. "He doesn't want to work anymore, and our bills are piling up. I can't support us on my own. But it's okay with me if he never gets off the couch, because we love each other." Here, love is NOT enough. Every one of the healthy, successful relationships here are thus because they involve love as a main ingredient, along with hard work, commitment and communication. This is true regardless of the status of the relationship. Love is integral, but not enough in and of itself to make a relationship work, because the real world is not a fairy tale.
    Posted by csousa1[/QUOTE]

    Notable Quotable.
    "Stuart was scared, but he loved Margalo, Mommy. And there is nothing bigger than love." -The Bean
     "His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him." -CSousa









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    My mobile site won't quote properly, but Sousa, I love your analogies. : I said it already but, I'll say it again. Love plays a huge part, but COMMUNICATE!!!!!!!!! Sometimes, most of the time, actually, the conversations that are the most uncomfortable, and that either he, you, our both don't want to talk about, they are the ones that need to happen the most.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_he-wont-talk-about-it?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:0fe675ef-88e0-4228-b1cb-97a7abdceb0aPost:f5f274f5-6d03-4034-9077-926d72057e2e">Re: He won't talk about it.</a>:
    [QUOTE]Love is NOT enough, all on its own, without effort and communication. Let me show you. "His farts smell like Satan's asshole mixed with a skunk's vagina. But it's okay, because I love him." Here, love is enough. "He doesn't want to work anymore, and our bills are piling up. I can't support us on my own. But it's okay with me if he never gets off the couch, because we love each other." Here, love is NOT enough. Every one of the healthy, successful relationships here are thus because they involve love as a main ingredient, along with hard work, commitment and communication. This is true regardless of the status of the relationship. Love is integral, but not enough in and of itself to make a relationship work, because the real world is not a fairy tale.
    Posted by csousa1[/QUOTE]

    Yep, this is absolutely what I meant to say.  Please don't mistake me for having meant that <i />marriage</i> is necessary for people to be happy- PP is right that the gay couples in NY didn't need that.  But what they absolutely needed is confirmation that they were both on the same page about committing to spend their lives with one another, which is what the OP is lacking here.
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    I'd have to agree with all these ladies for different reasons, but I just want to say that relationships are different for different people. 
    Some couples live together for 30 years and wait forever to get married because they were scared that the marriage wouldn't work because tey came from broken families, but even though they aren't married they are committed and love eachother.

    You want to be married, if he doesn't want to get married or yet (and for hold long) you need to know. If he doesn't believe in marriage you need to know.

    I'm thinking about moving 50 miles west just for the summer to be closer to my boyfriend and I wont even be living with him I'd be with his super chill grandma and that's be a big commitment for me.

    Communication is the key to making any relationship or friendship last. Even if it takes a relationship counselor to help nudge the info out of him, it'd be worth it.

    And we aren't omniscient, we have no idea what is going on in his brain. maybe he has a proposal planned, maybe he just wants his best friend to go on an adventure with him to europe. we don't know.
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    Thanks for all the insight, everybody!  I appreicate it.  :)

    To answer bethsmiles's question: I have tried talking to him about a marriage.  Like I said, I'm okay with the wedding being a long way off.  I just want to know that he plans on being a team with me through whatever happens.  Sure, I'll ask silly questions about a wedding, but what I really want from him is a marriage.

    To answer another question that keeps coming up:  He's definitely the marrying type.  I do know that he wants to get married someday, although he has not admitted that he wants to to me yet.  He's a very long-term, "in it to win it" guy.  So, I know he wants to get married; it's just the issue of us talking about it like real people.  lol

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    Ooh, I also should probably mention:

    I did talk to him about this issue a few days ago.  I simply expressed the fact that I was frustrated that I feel like I can't talk about our future together with him, especially since he tells me I can talk to him about anything (and the other way around).  I told him that I appreicate him wanting to live together and move together, but I don't want our lives together to end there.  I also told him that I don't want to keep being jealous of other couples we know, because they are clearly talking about their futures together.  [I'm not saying I'm comparing their relationships to ours, per se, but I had been so frustrated with our "not talking about marriage" thing, that I couldn't help but feel jealous towards our friends.  I really didn't want to, but I did.  Natural thing, I suppose.]

    In the end, he listened to what I had to say, and agreed with me about being a serious team, and being able to talk to each other about anything.  He also said he was sorry for previously being not open to talking about it.

    I suppose the real test will be what happens when I bring it up (or he brings it up) now that we've had this talk...  fingers crossed!
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