@ Liv

NurseyK

In an earlier post you said this.. but I'm starting a new thread so it's easier to find and so I don't hijack Polos.

2. I believe it is poor etiquette. Your guests should never have to take out their wallets at your wedding.

I'm curious... how would you handle wanting to provide a full bar, but not being able to afford to get all my alcoholic friends drunk? What are your thoughts on etiquette and the bar if there is a budget to be followed?

NurseyK

@ Liv
I've thought about offering wine, too, during that time frame in addition to domestic drafts. However, my venue charges by the bottle... and minimum prices on bottles are $50ish and of course we don't get to take whatever is left. 

I've seen bar tabs upwards of $8000 when you open it up and let people drink what they want and when they want. We just can't afford to do that... or even come close to have an open bar for just beer for the whole night.

Would it be in better taste to just offer one drink p/p during cocktail hour and make it a cash bar the rest of the night? Or to cover only soda and no alcohol?

I agree with you when you said that having a cash limit means that whoever is helping out doesn't get anything because the group of drinkers will use it up in 20 minutes. For that reason we aren't doing a cash limit.

NurseyK

I really appreciate all your advice... my last post was just a rant. In all seriousness... we need to offer something... and we have to decide what.

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:b0cee056-205c-4430-aede-2fb712df69f4">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]So ideally we would have an open bar with house wine and domestic drafts until midnight... but we can't afford that. What we can afford is $600... which comes to about one drink per guest. As a guest, would you understand that there's limits, esp if you know that the bride and groom are hosting the majority of the wedding? Is it really an expectation that the hosts (whomever they may be) be willing to drop $2000+ just on booze for a wedding? Isn't the point of coming to a wedding to honor the decision of two people to marry! I feel so taken advantage of just knowing that at least 5 of our close friends will drink us into the red if we let them... yet they are important, so we are inviting them. (Not to mention relatives who drink a lot.) It's seriously rediculous how much drinks are.... they start at $5 for soda... $6 for domestic draft... and $48 for a bottle of wine. Ugh. This is so stressful!!! /rant.
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I know it is stressful, but this is the choice you made when you selected your venue.</div><div>
</div><div>I spent about $800 on bartending AND booze for my wedding, and we had pretty much a full open bar. Bar costs were a big factor in venue selection for us.</div><div>
</div><div>So, of course you need to do what is responsible for you financially. I fully support that!</div><div>
</div><div>But as the hosts for the event, it IS your responsibility to consider your guests and what will make THEM feel valued. It's not just about you and your FI.</div><div>
</div><div>I would say see if you can add 5-10 bottles of wine to your beer, and host the beer and wine until they run out.</div><div>
</div><div>I personally think that is your best option. HTH! </div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

NurseyK

Yaga... Liv..... changing venue at this point is not an option. I'm well aware that it's percieved as a "poor planning" issue... but you see IMHO it's not poor planning at all. 

If I visitied you in your city I wouldn't expect you to buy me drinks at an expensive restaurant, rather, I would come to enjoy the visit. No tit-for-tat is necessary. 

We're not planning on paying for people to get wasted on our dime... and if wine/beer is offered for free all night, that is exactly what they will do. (Wouldn't you?) By creating limits, we can offer something. Something is better than nothing, no?

It makes me a little unnerved that alcohol is expected at a wedding because guests feel that they deserve something for travel/attire/lodging as needed. If a guest chose to attend a wedding, then that was their choice. Whatever happened to just appreciation? Being provided a nice dinner and a fun event is a gift in an of itself... and definitely not a cheap one. It doesn't mean we had "poor planning" because we don't want our guests to get drunk on our dollar.

NurseyK

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:faa41e34-e28c-43e1-bfa8-cdd5aa41cc6e">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]Honestly.  <strong>Host what you can afford, but host it all night.</strong>  Don't make people pay for drinks, ever.  I think wine should be offered with the beer - all night.  I'm a beer drinker, but when I go to a wedding and I eat a lot, I'll drink wine instead (or a mixed drink if I have the choice) because it will upset my stomach way less than carbonated beer.   It's like the steak-chicken analogy.  Say you go to a wedding and the choice is chicken or fish.  But if you wanted steak, you could pay for it.  You'd think it's completely rude right?
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

this, I agree.

Thanks for your help ladies.

TheMutleys

Eff.  I have no idea what order anything is in. 

I think that this is one of the biggest things when it comes to choosing a venue.  I always remember the alcohol situation at weddings.

At this point, all you can do is what you can do.  You've already got a venue, so you need to work within their parameters.  I would cut out all alcohol and only have a champagne toast.  Is this ideal?  Nope.  Is this what I would like as a guest?  Nope.

Personally, I hate when alcohol switches from hosted to having to pay mid-reception.

If guests are able to buy alcohol, I would definitely have a sign at the bar.  The most embarassing thing is walking up to the bar, ordering a drink and then realizing you have to pay for it.

What time of day is your reception?  This makes a difference for me.  I expect more from a dinner reception than a brunch or lunch reception. 

We chose our venue because we were able to bring in our own alcohol and bartenders.  Alcohol was a big deal for DH.  (He really only cared about the food and the alcohol.)  We did beer (lots of different kinds,) several different wines, 2 signature drinks and non-alcoholic options.  We had an afternoon reception. 

NurseyK

Tell if this is ok...

We're hosting soda for the night and domestic drafts until 8pm. This way everyone has a chance to get at least one drink for a toast, but the big drinkers will only have 2 hours of free beer. I figured, anyone who has a soda will not also be drinking beer. I'll probably provide my BMs with a flask.

I tried to explain in a different post, but I think TK ate it....

My venue includes grauity in the final price, so none of my guests will need to tip. They probably wouldn't even allow a tip jar... not to sound snotty... but being a 5 star hotel I would understand and respect their preferences on things like that.

NurseyK

I wonder what it would be like to go through life humbly accepting whatever it is people give me, being ok with it, and not expecting anything more. Just saying.

FWIW - I'm not perfect and choosing a venue was the most difficult decision. If I had known 6 months ago what I know now, we would have chosen differently.

TheMutleys

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:873525d3-beb9-483b-8305-97cb30d3dad3">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]Yaga... Liv..... changing venue at this point is not an option. I'm well aware that it's percieved as a "poor planning" issue... but you see IMHO it's not poor planning at all.

If I visitied you in your city I wouldn't expect you to buy me drinks at an expensive restaurant, rather, I would come to enjoy the visit. No tit-for-tat is necessary. 

<strong>We're not planning on paying for people to get wasted on our dime... and if wine/beer is offered for free all night, that is exactly what they will do. (Wouldn't you?)</strong> By creating limits, we can offer something. Something is better than nothing, no?

It makes me a little unnerved that alcohol is expected at a wedding because guests feel that they deserve something for travel/attire/lodging as needed. If a guest chose to attend a wedding, then that was their choice. Whatever happened to just appreciation? Being provided a nice dinner and a fun event is a gift in an of itself... and definitely not a cheap one. <strong>It doesn't mean we had "poor planning" because we don't want our guests to get drunk on our dollar.</strong>
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

It IS poor planning if you intended to have alcohol at all and didn't plan for how expensive it would be.  It IS poor planning if you chose a venue where you could not properly host your guests.  Properly hosting does include not expecting your guests to pull out their wallets. 

I also believe that guests do not come to get drunk on the hosts' dollar.  I guess I thought more of our guests than that.  The idea that people are not able to know their own limits is assuming some very negative things about your guests.  There may be a couple of guests who imbibe beyond their means, but I definitely do not think that is the majority or even anywhere near the norm. 

Do what works for the two of you.  Just realize that some guests may consider it rude.  There is nothing you can do about that at this point. 

lunarsongbird

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:873525d3-beb9-483b-8305-97cb30d3dad3">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]We're not planning on paying for people to get wasted on our dime... and if wine/beer is offered for free all night, that is exactly what they will do. (Wouldn't you?) Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

I've never ever been wasted at an open bar wedding. I've had a few glasses of wine- and that was it.

Oy vay- this thread is a chronological mess. Stupid TK.

peekaboo2011

I don't know what your guest list looks like Nursey, but on the other side of it, I would be seriously peeved if I showed up at a wedding and my only options were beer and soda.  You know my gluten issues, and those tend to bar me from eating at large events like that, but to also not be able to even have a glass of wine would suck tremendously.

Like I said, the situation may not apply, and I may just be a bitch for expecting just a little bit from people, but it's something to think about.

TheMutleys

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:561b85d5-71e2-429d-8aa4-0d17def971a5">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]I wonder what it would be like to go through life humbly accepting whatever it is people give me, being ok with it, and not expecting anything more. Just saying.

FWIW - I'm not perfect and choosing a venue was the most difficult decision. If I had known 6 months ago what I know now, we would have chosen differently.
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

Seriously? 

NurseyK

Peek - would be peeved if a full bar was offered and only soda was covered?

peekaboo2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:3b0949ae-dcfa-49f0-9c3f-36dba79c7649">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]Peek - would be peeved if a full bar was offered and only soda was covered?
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

Yes.  If I came to visit you in AZ, would you charge me to have a drink in your home?  But I wouldn't be peeved if you offered the same thing as what you were talking about initially with the beer (until 8 or whatever) as long as wine was also an option.  Make sense?

NurseyK

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:cbe2c5ee-db56-4b94-a95e-3c639da5bd49">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: @ Liv : I don't know when this was posted or at whom it was directed, but I think that's really rude. I don't get up in arms about many things, but this post -- and this whole thread -- is really bothering me. This is not a discussion about being humble or having unrealistic expectations. It is a thread about etiquette and proper hosting. To imply otherwise yet again makes a value judgment and sucks. You asked for opinions. We are giving them to you. You don't like what we have to say, and don't like what etiquette-wise is correct. I'm sorry you feel that way, and sorry that you feel that if you had known, you'd go back and do things differently. It sucks to have regrets. But all you can do is move on from here and do what is best for you financially while still properly hosting your guests.  If you want to disregard all our suggestions and just give every guest a beer, you can do that, too! We can't stop you. We are just trying to help you because you asked.
Posted by LivLeighton[/QUOTE]

Actually as frustrating as this thread is, it's pretty helpful. You see, my friends are telling me they don't care it I host a full bar because they really don't care. But the family members whose opinions that matter to me are the ones who are going to have a feeling about how the bar should go. These same family members are the ones that I don't know, thus want to protect our new relationship.

This thread has been helpful because as (somewhat) complete strangers, it's giving me perspective on what my future family members (that I don't know) might feel. It's definitely helped me rethink what we should do.

Liv, I didn't mean to be rude, it was just a thought.  I can't control your perception of that comment, so I'm sorry you took it that way.

desertsun

As a guest, I would be sad to go to a wedding at what I knew was an upscale hotel/resort and have to pay for booze or be limited to beer or soda.

peekaboo2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:9b98f8cb-9f63-4090-a62b-375f85066ae5">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]@ Liv I've thought about offering wine, too, during that time frame in addition to domestic drafts. However, my venue charges by the bottle... and minimum prices on bottles are $50ish and of course we don't get to take whatever is left.  I've seen bar tabs upwards of $8000 when you open it up and let people drink what they want and when they want. We just can't afford to do that... or even come close to have an open bar for just beer for the whole night. Would it be in better taste to just offer one drink p/p during cocktail hour and make it a cash bar the rest of the night? Or to cover only soda and no alcohol? I agree with you when you said that having a cash limit means that whoever is helping out doesn't get anything because the group of drinkers will use it up in 20 minutes. For that reason we aren't doing a cash limit.
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

I know this wasn't to me, but I'm going to toss my two cents in.

If you can't afford to offer alcohol without your guests paying for it, don't do it.  Offer a champagne toast and be done with it.  But offering alcohol if your guests pay for it is in incredibly bad taste.  Especially if you've already offered a drink earlier.  But that's just my opinion.

NurseyK

So ideally we would have an open bar with house wine and domestic drafts until midnight... but we can't afford that.

What we can afford is $600... which comes to about one drink per guest.

As a guest, would you understand that there's limits, esp if you know that the bride and groom are hosting the majority of the wedding? Is it really an expectation that the hosts (whomever they may be) be willing to drop $2000+ just on booze for a wedding? Isn't the point of coming to a wedding to honor the decision of two people to marry! I feel so taken advantage of just knowing that at least 5 of our close friends will drink us into the red if we let them... yet they are important, so we are inviting them. (Not to mention relatives who drink a lot.) It's seriously rediculous how much drinks are.... they start at $5 for soda... $6 for domestic draft... and $48 for a bottle of wine. Ugh. This is so stressful!!!
/rant.

lunarsongbird

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:53339d91-fea7-4930-ba81-58292c2781eb">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: @ Liv : It came across as rude to more than just one person.  
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

I think I'm going to do a spin off on this thread to maybe get an idea of how much people drink at a wedding.

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:3e9f1498-688d-4f54-a9d2-1237ef3569af">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: @ Liv : But the family members whose opinions that matter to me are the ones who are going to have a feeling about how the bar should go. These same family members are the ones that I don't know, thus want to protect our new relationship. Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

However- if you are worried about how your new family is going to feel about the bar- I would seriously consider opening up the bar to be soda, wine, and beer. The wine will be a bit more expensive, but you can ask the bartenders to do 4 oz. pours.

And you have to account for those people who will not be drinking at the wedding. There will be DDs there.

Another alternative is to have a couple bottles of white and red on the table with dinner.

A $600 alcohool budget for a 5 star venue seems to be very very low. There isn't any way to shift around the budget to account for more?

lunarsongbird

I was also thinking you could also entice guests with some other fun non-alcoholic beverages that might decrease the number of alcoholic drinks: 



 

 

These drinks would also be good when people start dancing. They ought to stay hydrated!

jaycee7389

I can't really understand what is going on in this thread, but I wanted to offer my two cents, as well.

I do not expect an open bar when I go to a wedding. IMO, being a good host does not equal serving me alcohol. It's not to say that I wouldn't be disappointed, though. If there were no non-alcoholic beverages or food served I would definitely find that to be bad hosting.

I think the "age old" debate about whether having a cash bar available for those who would still like to drink is interesting. In reality, I would rather a cash bar be available than no bar...but it is tacky IMO. So, if I were hosting I would either have alcohol or no alcohol. If I was guest, however, I'd prefer to at least have the option to buy myself a drink if the couple couldn't afford to host it.

NurseyK

@ Lunar - I'm realizing that we need to up the budget for alcohol. I can't do much until tonight when I'm home from work. I do like your ideas... I'll ask my coordinator if they can do anything like that. 

This thread turned hellish atmosphere, and that was not my intention.

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:882ab9f2-674c-4776-9574-66fd17d176f5">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]@ Lunar - I'm realizing that we need to up the budget for alcohol. I can't do much until tonight when I'm home from work. I do like your ideas... I'll ask my coordinator if they can do anything like that.  This thread turned hellish atmosphere, and that was not my intention.
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, Nursey. :(

Having met you, I know you are good people. <3

But I also know your venue, and it is such a nice venue, and I worry that your guests will expect a full open bar. I know that if I went to a wedding there, I would be disappointed that my only option was beer until 8.

And I am not at all a big drinker.

I don't expect to get drunk on someone else's dime. I just prefer to have options. Just like I prefer to have a tasty vegetarian meal option.

It's not a deal breaker in my friendship if I don't have booze or a good meal.

But it DOES make me feel a little hurt.

I am just sharing my honest opinion in hopes that it helps to have some more information from a relatively unbiased person.

If you guys decide all you want to offer is a champagne toast, then that is your decision.

It's too late to switch venues, and it's also getting late to add $500-$1000 into your budget.

I would just sit back and let everything that's been said kind of simmer in the back of your mind for a few days. Talk it throught with your FI. Think seriously about how different options will impact how your guests feel about your wedding. And subsequently how YOU will feel about your wedding. And then make the decision that is best for you.

tuarceatha

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:a4fb7ba0-d54c-4ab3-a2d4-ddc1968f501e">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't really understand what is going on in this thread, but I wanted to offer my two cents, as well.<strong> 1. I do not expect an open bar when I go to a wedding. </strong>IMO, being a good host does not equal serving me alcohol. I<strong>t's not to say that I wouldn't be disappointed, though.</strong> If there were no non-alcoholic beverages or food served I would definitely find that to be bad hosting. I think the "age old" debate about whether having a cash bar available for those who would still like to drink is interesting.<strong> In reality, I would rather a cash bar be available than no bar...but it is tacky IMO.</strong> So, if I were hosting I would either have alcohol or no alcohol. <span style="font-weight:bold;">If I was guest, however, I'd prefer to at least have the option to buy myself a drink if the couple couldn't afford to host it.</span>
Posted by jaycee7389[/QUOTE]

As a guest at a wedding I don't expect an open bar, I hope for it.

I too would rather a cash bar than no bar. I've been to one wedding where they didn't serve any alcohol, and it made sense, but I was disappointed.

p.s. Planning a wedding is hard.

dwest2201

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_liv-18?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:43f7a8b7-1ac5-4b81-872a-514784dace0bPost:df733f9c-f14b-4025-9d33-3999c0b5df27">Re: @ Liv</a>:
[QUOTE]Tell if this is ok...<strong> We're hosting soda for the night and domestic drafts until 8pm. This way everyone has a chance to get at least one drink for a toast, but the big drinkers will only have 2 hours of free beer. I figured, anyone who has a soda will not also be drinking beer.</strong> <strong>I'll probably provide my BMs with a flask. ;) I</strong>tried to explain in a different post, but I think TK ate it.... My venue includes grauity in the final price, so none of my guests will need to tip. They probably wouldn't even allow a tip jar... not to sound snotty... but being a 5 star hotel I would understand and respect their preferences on things like that.
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

So your big drinker friends will get 2 hours of "free" beer and cut them off to maintain control.  Yet, you are giving your BM's flasks of liquor?  I hope you were joking...if not that is a huge contradiction.